348 réponses à ce sujet

[LobselVith8]

Fetunche wrote...

Once the Chantry and the Templars are are destroyed, mages won't have to resort to blood magic to circumvent the Templars antimagic abilities, problem solved.

I think some mages would still use blood magic, but I've never bought into the Chantry dogma that blood magic is inherently evil. It's a tool - it can be used for good or bad purposes, depending on who uses it, and how it's used by the respective mage.

[Fetunche]

Can animal blood be used for blood magic, slaughter nug, use blood then eat nug.

[Everwarden]

Ferretinabun wrote...


Another silly retcon. I much preferred DA:O's way of doing it.

I prefer the DA2 way; and I -hated- DA2.

Blood magic isn't a temptation if it's extremely difficult to learn. 

[MisterJB]

StreetMagic wrote...

I don't think it's necessarily inherently evil, but it's danger is self-evident. You don't need to bring demons or chantry into it. The fact that you can fuel more powerful spells with blood leads to the next conclusion -- "Hmm, where can I get more blood?" Demons ultimately have little to do with how screwed up it is.

Either you drain your allies or you become a Tevinter slaver and drain worthless elves (worthless in their minds, that is. I'm just emphasizing how dehumanizing it is). Without that blood, you're always potentially outranked by the other mage who has no qualms about using slaves. It becomes an arms race of slavery.

edit: Secondly, no one has enough lyrium to compete with it.

Plus, the more violent the pain or death used in blood magic, the more powerful the spell becomes (WoT page 109) meaning that blood mages have incentives to kill and maim others just to power their magic. The blood mage who cut his hand in respect for life won't be able to defend himself from the blood mage who cuts his slave's hearts out with a rusty spoon.

Modifié par MisterJB, 19 mai 2013 - 11:08 .

[Fetunche]

MisterJB wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

I don't think it's necessarily inherently evil, but it's danger is self-evident. You don't need to bring demons or chantry into it. The fact that you can fuel more powerful spells with blood leads to the next conclusion -- "Hmm, where can I get more blood?" Demons ultimately have little to do with how screwed up it is.

Either you drain your allies or you become a Tevinter slaver and drain worthless elves (worthless in their minds, that is. I'm just emphasizing how dehumanizing it is). Without that blood, you're always potentially outranked by the other mage who has no qualms about using slaves. It becomes an arms race of slavery.

edit: Secondly, no one has enough lyrium to compete with it.

Plus, the more violent the pain or death used in blood magic, the more powerful the spell becomes (WoT page 109) meaning that blood mages have incentives to kill and maim others just to power their magic. The blood mage who cut his hand in respect for life won't be able to defend himself from the blood mage who cuts his slave's hearts out with a rusty spoon. So blood magic is like the Dark side, a slippery slope leading to more and more depraved acts for power?

[Fetunche]

Something went wrong there stupid phone.

[The Hierophant]

What about a...

 ?

Modifié par The Hierophant, 19 mai 2013 - 11:56 .

[Cainhurst Crow]

Blood magic to me always seemed more a balancing act than anything else. It requires you to stay in constant control of yourself and not give in to the temptation of abuse and corruption. So many people fail, as they would in real life, but a truely skilled blood mage could walk the line that few can manage to tread, and use great power without resorting to horrific means.

Or they could make it inherently stupid evil like stars does with the dark side and ruin a potentially good arc driving and narrative driving element. I guess that works to.

[ArcaneJTM]

I think it's the mind control part of blood magic people fear most. The sacrifices and demons are up there, sure, but mind control is the big one.

[Cainhurst Crow]

StreetMagic wrote...

There isn't a whole lot to do with blood magic that isn't able to be balanced. There's the basic ritual spells like unlocking Malcolm's or Elven wards, or the Grey Warden Joining. These seem harmless to me at least. It goes to show blood magic isn't inherently going to make you evil or tear the veil or something.

But then there's sacrificial fueling spells, the real meat of blood magic. This is what is usually meant by blood magic. It's very definition requires some nasty shxt involved. I also think it's stupid to even include it as a game mechanic btw.. Not without thralls. That you often end up having to use allies as thralls makes no sense. No way an Aveline or Varric would let it happen, for example. The kind of people who would let that happen are like the airheaded prostitutes in Anne Rice and True Blood novels. No one willingly lets themselves get cut and jacked up, except an extreme masochist. Not even a "really good friend". You need a slave for that.

You could get by by just cutting yourself, but I'd have to think a mage would get sick of it eventually. And probably too raw to cut the same area over and over. Think of heroin addicts. Their arms are full of tracks and they run out of areas to inject. They start injecting themselves in the oddest places.

But couldn't blood mages use magic to heal their wounds as well?

[LobselVith8]

StreetMagic wrote...

I don't think it's necessarily inherently evil, but it's danger is self-evident. You don't need to bring demons or chantry into it. The fact that you can fuel more powerful spells with blood leads to the next conclusion -- "Hmm, where can I get more blood?" Demons ultimately have little to do with how screwed up it is.

I don't deny that blood magic can be abused. Tevinter mages like Caladrius and Danarius are example of that. However, we also have mages who use blood magic for purposes that aren't malevolent as well, from the Grey Warden mages fighting the darkspawn with blood magic to apostates like Merrill who aren't abusing the blood magic abilities they possess.

StreetMagic wrote...

Either you drain your allies or you become a Tevinter slaver and drain worthless elves (worthless in their minds, that is. I'm just emphasizing how dehumanizing it is). Without that blood, you're always potentially outranked by the other mage who has no qualms about using slaves. It becomes an arms race of slavery.

I don't think being a blood mage means being limited to those options, even when dealing with another blood mage who is willing to cross those lines.

StreetMagic wrote...

edit: Secondly, no one has enough lyrium to compete with it. 

Which makes blood magic invaluable as a tool for some mages because it's more powerful than ordinary magic.

[Knight of Dane]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

But couldn't blood mages use magic to heal their wounds as well?

They should as DA:O and 2 both have healing spells for the caster (only) but it requires a party member to be scrificed.
Which is the black spot in BM.

If one tries to heal himself with his own blood nothing is really gained. If he uses his own blod he could use it to heal others or damage others. If he heals himself he has to use lyrium or another blood source.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Knight of Dane wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

But couldn't blood mages use magic to heal their wounds as well?

They should as DA:O and 2 both have healing spells for the caster (only) but it requires a party member to be scrificed.
Which is the black spot in BM.

If one tries to heal himself with his own blood nothing is really gained. If he uses his own blod he could use it to heal others or damage others. If he heals himself he has to use lyrium or another blood source.

I meant with creation magic, not with blood magic. I don't think once you become a blood mage, all you can use it blood magic. Otherwise merill wouldn't be able to be a mage of any kind outside of her blood magic skills.

Modifié par Darth Brotarian, 20 mai 2013 - 04:08 .

[RedArmyShogun]

See you are over thinking things.

As Stalin Said.

If a Man has a problem, shoot him. Then there is no problem.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Chaos Lord Malek wrote...

There is no book for blood magic, you must have it from Origins.

Wikia says there is one, but you have to have not unlocked it yet. Is that wrong?

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

DinoSteve wrote...

killing all the mages is a better solution.

The Joining requires mages. Without that Thedas falls. Furthermore, this would require the cooperation of every government including Tevinter, which would be more inclined to invade a country with this policy than support it; a country that weakens itself in this manner is easy prey for the magisters.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

StreetMagic wrote...

After meeting Corypheus, I put little stock in the idea the Chantry is "Propaganda". If their underlying story has some truth to it, they at least deserve a room at the table with other subjects.

Just because their founding story has some truth (and we are never shown how much) has little to do with what insight they might have on other subjects. Conversely, they could be provably false on this subject and it wouldn't invalidate any legitimate insights they might have.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 20 mai 2013 - 05:15 .

[ArcaneJTM]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Chaos Lord Malek wrote...

There is no book for blood magic, you must have it from Origins.

Wikia says there is one, but you have to have not unlocked it yet. Is that wrong?

The manual is in Awakening.  Vanilla Origins, you have to get the demon to unlock it for you.

[Plaintiff]

StreetMagic wrote...

After meeting Corypheus, I put little stock in the idea the Chantry is "Propaganda". If their underlying story has some truth to it, they at least deserve a room at the table with other subjects.

Propoganda isn't always "false" in a purely factual sense, though it is usually biased and misleading. "Propoganda" is information used to advance a particular political cause or point of view, and the Chantry's dogma definitely qualifies.

The "truth" of it is irrelevent to its status as "propoganda". And even if it is true, that is not in any way an adequate justification for the actions of the Chantry currently, especially since the Chantry themselves don't have Corypheus in their possession, and have no way of proving that their dogma is truth.

[DKJaigen]

MisterJB wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

I don't think it's necessarily inherently evil, but it's danger is self-evident. You don't need to bring demons or chantry into it. The fact that you can fuel more powerful spells with blood leads to the next conclusion -- "Hmm, where can I get more blood?" Demons ultimately have little to do with how screwed up it is.

Either you drain your allies or you become a Tevinter slaver and drain worthless elves (worthless in their minds, that is. I'm just emphasizing how dehumanizing it is). Without that blood, you're always potentially outranked by the other mage who has no qualms about using slaves. It becomes an arms race of slavery.

edit: Secondly, no one has enough lyrium to compete with it.

Plus, the more violent the pain or death used in blood magic, the more powerful the spell becomes (WoT page 109) meaning that blood mages have incentives to kill and maim others just to power their magic. The blood mage who cut his hand in respect for life won't be able to defend himself from the blood mage who cuts his slave's hearts out with a rusty spoon.

Who says he needs a slave? We are talking about combat magic here newbie and if the more damage i inflict upon my opponent the stronger my magic stronger becomes then i consider it beneficial . If i was a mage and i had the choice of btween frost magic or fire magic i would choose fire magic every single time. The terror, pain and trauma fire spells create marks it more usefull in combat then frost magic.

[Knight of Dane]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Knight of Dane wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

But couldn't blood mages use magic to heal their wounds as well?

They should as DA:O and 2 both have healing spells for the caster (only) but it requires a party member to be scrificed.
Which is the black spot in BM.

If one tries to heal himself with his own blood nothing is really gained. If he uses his own blod he could use it to heal others or damage others. If he heals himself he has to use lyrium or another blood source.

I meant with creation magic, not with blood magic. I don't think once you become a blood mage, all you can use it blood magic. Otherwise merill wouldn't be able to be a mage of any kind outside of her blood magic skills.

I know what you meant but the point stands. Blood magic in gameplay is about replacing mana entirely. When blood magic is active other healing methods than blood sacrifice doesn't work, potions and external healing doesn't effect you.
However you can always turn off the blood magic and heal, but this however reverts to using Lyrium as I mentioned.