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[Dagr88]

Knight of Dane wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Knight of Dane wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

But couldn't blood mages use magic to heal their wounds as well?

They should as DA:O and 2 both have healing spells for the caster (only) but it requires a party member to be scrificed.
Which is the black spot in BM.

If one tries to heal himself with his own blood nothing is really gained. If he uses his own blod he could use it to heal others or damage others. If he heals himself he has to use lyrium or another blood source.

I meant with creation magic, not with blood magic. I don't think once you become a blood mage, all you can use it blood magic. Otherwise merill wouldn't be able to be a mage of any kind outside of her blood magic skills.

I know what you meant but the point stands. Blood magic in gameplay is about replacing mana entirely. When blood magic is active other healing methods than blood sacrifice doesn't work, potions and external healing doesn't effect you.
However you can always turn off the blood magic and heal, but this however reverts to using Lyrium as I mentioned.

Blood = Life force
Blood magic uses blood as a fuel

From gameplay point of view:
Creation magic restores health -> replenishes blood -> can use blood magic again -> loop with infinite profit [makes sense in gameplay but not in lore. No healing in BM mode is made for balancing].

In lore (have nothing to prove this theory)
Creation magic restores flesh -> can still die from blood loss.
Blood replenishes overtime. BM can steal blood from other sources to replenish his/her.

OR

Creation magic restores blood/health. Amount of mana consumed = Amount of energy that can be gained from replenished blood.

[Knight of Dane]

Yeah, hurt yourself to heal yourself

[Medhia Nox]

Blood mage freaks should be grossly scarred from head to foot. A scar is still "healed".

Very few gamers would play them then.

Self-mutilating wack jobs.

[Xilizhra]

Medhia Nox wrote...

Blood mage freaks should be grossly scarred from head to foot. A scar is still "healed".

Very few gamers would play them then.

Self-mutilating wack jobs.

By the same token, everyone who took damage in a fight, which is everyone eventually, would look the same. Worse, probably, because blood magic's self-damaging effect is tiny.

Yeah, hurt yourself to heal yourself

Healing spells heal a lot more than the blood magic ding. The inability to do both is just a gameplay conceit. And you can heal yourself just fine by stealing residual blood from enemy corpses (or enemies outright with the right upgrade).

Modifié par Xilizhra, 20 mai 2013 - 12:56 .

[Medhia Nox]

@Xilizhra: Yes - soldiers who fight in melee battles should be scarred.  Did you think I was going to disagree?

But blood magic is willful self-mutilation.

It should come with a price players actually care about. And since the gaming community is filled with self-absorbed vain social misfits who rarely look like the fashion models they create - it would be a price that I believe would deter many gamers.

Modifié par Medhia Nox, 20 mai 2013 - 01:03 .

[In Exile]

What really seems strange is that you can't use enemies as a mana battery. I get why for gameplay reasons, but lore-wise it seems dumb to suck your own companions of blood.

[Xilizhra]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@Xilizhra: Yes - soldiers who fight in melee battles should be scarred.  Did you think I was going to disagree?

But blood magic is willful self-mutilation.

It should come with a price players actually care about.

Even ordinary self-mutilators in our own world can get away with just leaving a network of thin lines on their upper arms, and this is without magical healing (which, judging by a major lack of scars on our party, doesn't leave scars when it heals; I suspect that being able to control one's own blood will help with this too).

[Medhia Nox]

The lack of scars on our party are due to the fact that most gamers wouldn't be able to play anything other than a fashion model.

[Xilizhra]

If you wish to campaign for realism, it's hypocritical to make it an issue for blood magic only, especially when it'd leave fewer scars than ordinary combat even if healing magic did leave scars, which we have no evidence for.

[Knight of Dane]

Xilizhra wrote...

Yeah, hurt yourself to heal yourself

Healing spells heal a lot more than the blood magic ding. The inability to do both is just a gameplay conceit. And you can heal yourself just fine by stealing residual blood from enemy corpses (or enemies outright with the right upgrade).

Yeah, like the reavers do. Devour

[Medhia Nox]

@Xilizhra: Did I say anything about realism?

Blood magic is supposed to be powerful - traditionally in storytelling, a power comes with a price - but gamers are too amoral to care about the prices presented in a story.

The price has to actually challenge the gamer - scarred blood mages would do that.

But keep making up what I'm trying to say and retort to that if you wish.

[Xilizhra]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@Xilizhra: Did I say anything about realism?

Blood magic is supposed to be powerful - traditionally in storytelling, a power comes with a price - but gamers are too amoral to care about the prices presented in a story.

The price has to actually challenge the gamer - scarred blood mages would do that.

But keep making up what I'm trying to say and retort to that if you wish.

Power almost never comes with a price with RPG character classes, and if the game is made properly, they'll all have about the same level of power. Especially mages.

[billy the squid]

The clear solution is that of the Qun, segregation and constraints for all mages, for the benefit of the vast majority.

[Xilizhra]

billy the squid wrote...

The clear solution is that of the Qun, segregation and constraints for all mages, for the benefit of the vast majority.

Be confident that it'll never happen in-game.

[billy the squid]

Xilizhra wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

The clear solution is that of the Qun, segregation and constraints for all mages, for the benefit of the vast majority.

Be confident that it'll never happen in-game.

Irrespective of the extent of Qunari involvement, which is a question mark at the moment, siding with the Chantry may very well cause this. So it can happen in game. Either way, it can happen.

Modifié par billy the squid, 20 mai 2013 - 01:52 .

[Xilizhra]

No, I mean that the qunari are never going to win, any more than the darkspawn will. And the darkspawn are a far more central feature of the setting. The qunari are a side branch, a lesser menace to be faced down and stopped in between darkspawn.

Also, I'm not fighting for the Chantry, I'm fighting for the people of Thedas.

[billy the squid]

At the moment the level of Qunari involvement is unknown. And unless you want to get blight number 6 under way after less than a decade, the Qunari are the next major faction after the Mage/ Templar war.So unless the Qunari are the next "threat" in this game, which seems unlikely given the conflict between Mages and Templars being the major focus. It's entirely possible that the Qun will enter a more central role in DA 4 in the aftermath of the conflict in DA3, creating the option of choosing between The Qun and the follow up Mage/Templar victory in DA3.

Unless I'm missing news from the Devs as to how much involvement the Qun will have in DA3

[Xilizhra]

The mage/templar war will likely be wrapped up at the end of this game, with Thedas' internal problems relatively sorted out and the qunari the main enemy of the fourth game. Siding with them would both create too many import problems and not be supported by the vast majority of the playerbase, which actually values things like freedom (for similar reasons, the templars won't outright win this war; either the mages will, or something else will render the conflict moot).

[Medhia Nox]

@Xilizhra: You've obviously only played CRPGs.

[billy the squid]

Unlikely, unless the writers enjoy moving back to the original tropes of good vs bad all over again.

And it's obviously clear that the majority of the fanbase support order, safety, social progression and a system of advanced civilisation. So the next logical step is acceptance of the Qun, in the face of mage terrorists and radical mage supremacists.

Clearly the mages will loose either to the Chantry or to the on coming Qun invasion.

Modifié par billy the squid, 20 mai 2013 - 02:59 .

[Plaintiff]

The possibility that the writers might conjure up a new threat that is irrelevant to either of these issues doesn't seem to be occurring to anybody

[Xilizhra]

@Xilizhra: You've obviously only played CRPGs.

Because JRPGs are more relevant to a CRPG?

Unlikely, unless the writers enjoy moving back to the original tropes of good vs bad all over again.

They've never left, it's just that "bad" isn't restricted to one faction.

The possibility that the writers might conjure up a new threat that is irrelevant to either of these issues doesn't seem to be occurring to anybody

I suppose the demons might get organized, but beyond that, there doesn't seem to be that much left that's wholly alien.

[Medhia Nox]

@Xilizhra: LOL the "C" is for computer.

[billy the squid]

^Which is why the mages as the terrorist/ supremacist faction can and are likely to be defeated in the oncoming conflict with the Chantry. The mages represent the move towards Tevinter and the destruction of moral values as per Chantry teachings.

[Xilizhra]

@Xilizhra: LOL the "C" is for computer.

Ah, so you weren't talking about a different genre of video games, but an entirely different order of game altogether, and thought you were still in context?

^Which is why the mages as the terrorist/ supremacist faction can and are likely to be defeated in the oncoming conflict with the Chantry. The mages represent the move towards Tevinter and the destruction of moral values as per Chantry teachings.

Yes, this is likely to happen to any actual supremacist groups that we see. However, it will not happen to the actual prime mage rebel faction, which shows no signs of supremacism from either the games or Asunder.