348 réponses à ce sujet

[Solmanian]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

I'm sure if our Wardens had time, we could rehabilitate the Mother, just like Seven of Nine. 

You know the main reason 7/9 was rehabilitated? The Mother doesn't have that.

I thought the problem was that she had too much of that...

[Solmanian]

Somewhat offtopic (or is it?):
I find it interesting how 7/9  proved that there isn't a rating/popularity problem that can't be solved with a hot enough babe. Hell, it was the entire premise of Baywatch.

Point: Dear bioware, worried about the success of your game? the answer is hot babes, as far as the eye can see. Yes, male gamers (myself included) are just that shallow.

[Plaintiff]

I'm an EXTREMELY shallow male gamer and I can tell you right now that hot women are the last thing that would convince me to pick up a video game.

[Plaintiff]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

I'm an EXTREMELY shallow male gamer and I can tell you right now that hot women are the last thing that would convince me to pick up a video game.

We all know why that is, though.

Could you say the same for males?

*looks at your profile pic*

Well, going by looks alone, I don't find most male characters in videogames to be attractive at all. The aggressive demeanour and intimidating appearance of most male videogame protagonists is a serious barrier to my arousal. My sexual fantasies don't typically include being broken in half, or having my skull crushed by a wayward wiggling pectoral.

I do, as it happens, find Kaidan very appealing, in terms of both appearance and personality, but he's an exception, not the rule.

[Plaintiff]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Well, going by looks alone, I don't find most male characters in videogames to be attractive at all. The aggressive demeanour and intimidating appearance of most male videogame protagonists is a serious barrier to my arousal. My sexual fantasies don't typically include being broken in half, or having my skull crushed by a wayward wiggling pectoral.

I do, as it happens, find Kaidan very appealing, in terms of both appearance and personality, but he's an exception, not the rule.

BUT if there were a "hot" male (by whatever your standards are) in the game, prominently displayed, would you be more inclined to buy it? I think that was the original point that was being made.

Maybe. It certainly wouldn't hurt, but it's not high on my list of priorities when it comes to shopping for a new game.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 21 mai 2013 - 05:23 .

[Red Templar]

Xilizhra wrote...
No, that's just boring. There's a relatively easy way to get past this, though it may gall me to admit it: ally with the Chantry. If what's left of the Chantry leadership can be convinced that the mage genie cannot be put back in the bottle and the templars are too dangerous to keep around, which may or may not be tricky, but the Inquisition can hopefully be the bridge here. Ultimately, though, the Circle has to try to integrate itself into greater Thedas society rather than be torn further apart from it, even throughout the war; this will be difficult, but probably made somewhat easier by the fact that everywhere is in chaos and there are some reasonable spots to enter. Not necessarily easy, but I have faith in the rebellion, and in the fact that the templars will never win, even morally.

Your notion of excitement baffles me. The transformation of the conflict into a different form as I discussed, with mages failing in victory to remain united and splintering along fraternity lines in a world that fears these unchecked revolutionaries... that's boring to you. Whereas your alternative, this paragraph about peaceful reintegration and reconciliation through diplomacy, that is exciting? Do you understand what bathos is? If you would find that a titillating vehicle for mature rated RPGs in a dark and scary world to deliver stories with, I'd wager you are in a obscure minority.

Your reason is compromised by your preferences here. You are not providing interesting insights into narrative progression and are getting confused over storytelling principles. Nor can you defend your position once challenged, considering what you selectively reply to. You are just rewording your preferences and expecting them to be convincing because you believe in them. Faith isn't for fiction. Reclaim your identity from your video game persona. We're talking about a story constructed to sell game copies, not the struggle-by-proxy for your heart and soul and the "better world" you wish to pretend that you live in.

Modifié par Red Templar, 21 mai 2013 - 09:02 .

[Xilizhra]

Your notion of excitement baffles me. The transformation of the conflict into a different form as I discussed, with mages failing in victory to remain united and splintering along fraternity lines in a world that fears these unchecked revolutionaries... that's boring to you. Whereas your alternative, this paragraph about peaceful reintegration and reconciliation through diplomacy, that is exciting? Do you understand what bathos is? If you would find that a titillating vehicle for mature rated RPGs in a dark and scary world to deliver stories with, I'd wager you are in a obscure minority.

There's something of a conflation of terms here. The conflict that you presented earlier is one that would hardly interest me; I would prefer other conflicts with which to busy myself. The peace that I mentioned earlier would likely consist of background events that wouldn't be played through in detail. Yes, it's the end of one major conflict, but the Dragon Age is almost half over; it can hardly go on forever, and there's a great deal to do yet. Also, your preferences are no better or less biased than my own; you simply don't want to see the mage rebellion truly work out.

[billy the squid]

 

[Xilizhra]

I note several factual inaccuracies in the comic posted.

[billy the squid]

It's perfectly accurate, and also another reason why siding with the Templars and the victory is beneficial.

[Xilizhra]

If "no one cared," there wouldn't have been a rebellion. Also, the templars don't deserve protection.

[billy the squid]

Well the the mages, but that's it, clearly that's why they're revolting against the safety and security of Templar rule. It's also why the circle of every country in Thedas, needs to be Annulled

[Plaintiff]

Anders is such a crybaby, working tirelessly to heal people for no money, and trying for seven years to effect change through peaceful means while living every minute of his life in fear of imprisonment and lobotomy.

Sebastian is much less annoying, sitting around in the Chantry and wringing his hands, refusing to take responsibility for his kingdom while a mentally impaired cousin runs it into the ground. Or Aveline, now there's a role model, with her hypocritical preaching and turning into a stuttering, incompetent mess any time her male subordinate walks into the room.

[Red Templar]

Xilizhra wrote...

There's something of a conflation of terms here. The conflict that you presented earlier is one that would hardly interest me; I would prefer other conflicts with which to busy myself. The peace that I mentioned earlier would likely consist of background events that wouldn't be played through in detail. Yes, it's the end of one major conflict, but the Dragon Age is almost half over; it can hardly go on forever, and there's a great deal to do yet.

Something being your preference is not an argument for quality.

Dragon Age marching on is a non-issue. This is a franchise that is being invested in across multiple forms of media, while it is not a Mass Effect trilogy that has to neatly wrap itself up in a specific installment.

What you are arguing is for resolution via bathos of one of the franchise's most important conflict arcs. Background information that isn't played through in detail is objectively less valuable for the process of fueling content in game after game than this conflict is. Transmuting the mage-templar conflict into a different form, by changing the position of dominance from one to the other, analysing the conflict from the other perspective, and showing the consequences of the rebellion through a critical lens rather than an apologetic one could continue to fuel plots and quest content for many games. You want a quick, clean, definitive resolution in a conflict that we know has been deliberately constructed so as to be muddied and without easy solution. Your arguments aren't based on what is good writing or what is good for franchise longevity or uniqueness, your arguments come from the perspective that there is something in the franchise (unique to the franchise, at that) that you don't like, and you want it removed from your adoptive fictional home. Subjectivity is fine, but no one else is obliged to take you seriously and you can hardly make a compelling case that your desires would be good writing or good franchise development if actualized.

Also, your preferences are no better or less biased than my own; you simply don't want to see the mage rebellion truly work out.

You think this way because you seem to be unable to clear your thoughts of subjectivity. Psychological projection. Not everyone is so close to the material so as to lose sight of the distinction between what it is and what one wants it to be. If I, too, were insting that my preferences be treated like some cookie in a jar that I deserve by virtue of wanting it really badly, I would not have said that a mage victory over the templars is necessary to maintain good writing. Nuanced progression is necessary, and whitewashing mages is not a part of that. There are mature rated games, and must not be resolved as an episode of Captain Planet would be.

[billy the squid]

Yes, Anders is a big crybaby, he's an enormous whiner, That brooding elven chap Fenris clearly has the right idea with mages. And Sebastian is a big girl too, and that's why Aveline would never have that position, if she was inducted into the Qun. She's not capable.

Templar military rule, rather than Chantry rule is clearly beneficial, due to the military discipline of the order. At least until they achieve enlightenment under the Qun.

[MisterJB]

Anders is such a crybaby, working tirelessly to heal people for no money,

The two are entirely unrelated and not mutually exclusive.

Plaintiff wrote...
trying for seven years to effect change through peaceful means while living every minute of his life in fear of imprisonment and lobotomy.

Working with an underground criminal organization, breaking into international facilities and killing several members of a law enforcement organization is not peaceful.

Modifié par MisterJB, 21 mai 2013 - 01:14 .

[Plaintiff]

billy the squid wrote...

Yes, Anders is a big crybaby, he's an enormous whiner, That brooding elven chap Fenris clearly has the right idea with mages. And Sebastian is a big girl too, and that's why Aveline would never have that position, if she was inducted into the Qun. She's not capable.

Templar military rule, rather than Chantry rule is clearly beneficial, due to the military discipline of the order. At least until they achieve enlightenment under the Qun.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

Because military rule has always worked out before.

At least now I know for sure that you're trolling.

[billy the squid]

Plaintiff wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

Yes, Anders is a big crybaby, he's an enormous whiner, That brooding elven chap Fenris clearly has the right idea with mages. And Sebastian is a big girl too, and that's why Aveline would never have that position, if she was inducted into the Qun. She's not capable.

Templar military rule, rather than Chantry rule is clearly beneficial, due to the military discipline of the order. At least until they achieve enlightenment under the Qun.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

Because military rule has always worked out before.

At least now I know for sure that you're trolling.

Clearly a mage dictatorship is so different. Well the Chantry is an element of an individual state, not a control of the state itself, so the former is a dictatorship the other is simple stricter controls to safeguard against future revolts by magic users.

If you're just going to be obtuse, regarding the danger of Mages, then there's not much point to pointing out the issues.

[billy the squid]

Red Templar wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Also, your preferences are no better or less biased than my own; you simply don't want to see the mage rebellion truly work out.

You think this way because you seem to be unable to clear your thoughts of subjectivity. Psychological projection. Not everyone is so close to the material so as to lose sight of the distinction between what it is and what one wants it to be. If I, too, were insting that my preferences be treated like some cookie in a jar that I deserve by virtue of wanting it really badly, I would not have said that a mage victory over the templars is necessary to maintain good writing. Nuanced progression is necessary, and whitewashing mages is not a part of that. There are mature rated games, and must not be resolved as an episode of Captain Planet would be.

Not really, that would certainly be one side of the coin. The other would be that after the Templar extermination of the Mages and greater control, splitting from the Chantry the Templars establish themselves as their own political force and begin to challenge and insert themselves into the other Kingdoms of Thedas, to safeguard against magical influence and maintain order. Which again, like the Mage domination scenario, leads to war between the Templar order and their puppet states, like Kirkwall and the free kingdoms who resist Templar rule.

It's the the opposite of the domination of Mages, where factionalism and conflicts with secular states allow Mages to secure Tevinter style dominance for the individual and their cabal, rather than an organised system of goverment. In this scenario it is rule through force and the fear of Magic, not chaotic like the mages, but a ruthlessly enforced government system.

Modifié par billy the squid, 21 mai 2013 - 01:31 .

[Xilizhra]

What you are arguing is for resolution via bathos of one of the franchise's most important conflict arcs. Background information that isn't played through in detail is objectively less valuable for the process of fueling content in game after game than this conflict is. Transmuting the mage-templar conflict into a different form, by changing the position of dominance from one to the other, analysing the conflict from the other perspective, and showing the consequences of the rebellion through a critical lens rather than an apologetic one could continue to fuel plots and quest content for many games. You want a quick, clean, definitive resolution in a conflict that we know has been deliberately constructed so as to be muddied and without easy solution. Your arguments aren't based on what is good writing or what is good for franchise longevity or uniqueness, your arguments come from the perspective that there is something in the franchise (unique to the franchise, at that) that you don't like, and you want it removed from your adoptive fictional home. Subjectivity is fine, but no one else is obliged to take you seriously and you can hardly make a compelling case that your desires would be good writing or good franchise development if actualized.

Are you honestly saying that magic being both genetic and feared is unique to the Dragon Age franchise? It's... really not. In any case, your allegedly critical lens is heinously biased and primarily a means of templar apologia; if you wanted to be actually balanced, we can deal with such things as the primary faction holding together and working to integrate into a new system, with splinter groups trying to establish mage supremacy that both national governments and the prime Circle could be opposed to, thus providing the quest content that you desire. Along with relic templar marauders, perhaps. However, I think that far worse things than rogue mages will become the dominant focus of future games (such as the qunari), and don't see much of a benefit to holding the series back too long in this stage.

You think this way because you seem to be unable to clear your thoughts of subjectivity. Psychological projection. Not everyone is so close to the material so as to lose sight of the distinction between what it is and what one wants it to be. If I, too, were insting that my preferences be treated like some cookie in a jar that I deserve by virtue of wanting it really badly, I would not have said that a mage victory over the templars is necessary to maintain good writing. Nuanced progression is necessary, and whitewashing mages is not a part of that. There are mature rated games, and must not be resolved as an episode of Captain Planet would be.

Victory and decency are not whitewashing.

Working with an underground criminal organization, breaking into international facilities and killing several members of a law enforcement organization is not peaceful.

There's no need for peaceful means against an enemy that is not peaceful.

[Plaintiff]

billy the squid wrote...
Clearly a mage dictatorship is so different.

Because criticizing the current system means I want mages to RULE THE WORLD AND SUBJUGATE ALL THE NORMIES.

In other words: strawman strawman strawman strawman, strawman strawman strawman.

Well the Chantry is an element of an individual state, not a control of the state itself, so the former is a dictatorship the other is simple stricter controls to safeguard against future revolts by magic users.

I don't see how this is relevant to anything I said.

If you're just going to be obtuse, regarding the danger of Mages, then there's not much point to pointing out the issues.

Also not relevant to anything I said. The potential danger that any given mage represents isn't justififcation for putting the Templar Order in a position to commit even greater abuses than it does currently.