103 réponses à ce sujet

[Erez Kristal]

If cerberus never existed...
Collectors Get Shepard Body.
Miranda and jacob woulndnt have prevented bio warfare that the batarians wanted to unleash on the citadel. 
Normandy Sr-2 isnt rebuilt.
Edi- isnt created.
Garrus die in omega.
Aria-Overrun by eclipse, bloodpack and blue suns.
Zhaeed - Retire somewhere sunny.
Mordin - May suffocate to death in his clinic or killed by Bloodpack.
Grunt - In the tank.
Jack- living happily with her family
Alliance biotics much weaker.
Tali dies on halestorm
Legion? Heretics rewrite geth
No m-920 cain or arc projector.
Only high end reaper tech available is thanix cannons.
Virmire survivor and samantha traynor die on horizon.
Clan urdnot is weaker due clan wyrloc uprising with promises for a cure
(for those who really believe shepard stopped a batarian war with going to jail)  alliance - batarian war.
Quarrian attack geth and get obliterated. hereticcs fight with the reapers against the everyone else.

Genophage cure isnt spread to all krogan, Krogan arent united and do not help the turians.
Turians Get hammered by the reapers and may or may not be able to rescue one of their primearchs(without the normandy they tried and failed) 

Without shepard to unite them the galaxy is too spread out, not enough forces. the crucible doesnt have the right armada that will help it to deliver itself to earth. the galaxy gets obliterated


Knowing all this anderson turns to the turians to fight cerberus prior to mass effect 3
Here is the story of anderson villiany http://masseffect.wi...ct:_Retribution

Thoughts?

Modifié par erezike, 20 mai 2013 - 01:14 .

[Samtheman63]

did you just basically make a new thread about 2 other threads you made?

[Erez Kristal]

Samtheman63 wrote...

did you just basically make a new thread about 2 other threads you made?

when a thread is no longer cohesive. its best to delete it and start again with the newly acquired resolutions. 

Modifié par erezike, 19 mai 2013 - 02:37 .

[Forst1999]

No one can seriously argue that without Project Lazarus the whole story would have turned out very differently, almost surely bad. Some of the problems you listed might have been solved without Shepard's ressurrection, but all-in-all it would have been a disaster.
But Project Lazarus and related stuff were exceptions. Most of the time Cerberus recklessly endangered many people trying to get more power. Not even successfully in most cases. Shutting them down wouldn't have unmade their few good actions and would have prevented them from endangering the whole galaxy in ME3. So I think Anderson made the right call. Just a pity he didn't had more success.

[Ruadh]

Entirely subjective. You could argue that since cerberus didn't exist, Shep didn't encounter them in ME1, and while still destroying Sovy he took a slightly different path where he didn't get pancaked due to the Collectors. Isn't roleplaying fun?

[Hammerstorm]

ginner dave wrote...

Entirely subjective. You could argue that since cerberus didn't exist, Shep didn't encounter them in ME1, and while still destroying Sovy he took a slightly different path where he didn't get pancaked due to the Collectors. Isn't roleplaying fun?

This should have been a fun game. 

[mango smoothie]

ginner dave wrote...

Entirely subjective. You could argue that since cerberus didn't exist, Shep didn't encounter them in ME1, and while still destroying Sovy he took a slightly different path where he didn't get pancaked due to the Collectors. Isn't roleplaying fun?

A Shepard dosen't have to meet up with Cerberus in Mass Effect 1 due to the Mission's involving Cerberus being optional, and yet things still stay the same for Shepard, Sovereign, and the Battle of the Citadel.

[Erez Kristal]

mango smoothie wrote...

ginner dave wrote...

Entirely subjective. You could argue that since cerberus didn't exist, Shep didn't encounter them in ME1, and while still destroying Sovy he took a slightly different path where he didn't get pancaked due to the Collectors. Isn't roleplaying fun?

A Shepard dosen't have to meet up with Cerberus in Mass Effect 1 due to the Mission's involving Cerberus being optional, and yet things still stay the same for Shepard, Sovereign, and the Battle of the Citadel.

If you do roleplay you do not meet them in me1 because no way you will have time to side track when seriously under pressure to find saren. the galaxy would be doomed if you decided to sidetrack in me1.

[Karlone123]

You do know this thread will end up the same as the previous one you made, as in it not going anywhere, even with newly acquired resolutions.

Modifié par Karlone123, 19 mai 2013 - 06:14 .

[Erez Kristal]

Last thread was becoming a mess with too much unrelated real life subjects which avoided the main issue. no cerberus no galaxy. anderson attacking cerberus almost doomed the galaxy and i have yet to hear a valid case against it. so far people have been talking about the events of me3 without really discussing what could have happened if anderson hasnt went on a vendetta against cerberus.

[andy6915]

Most of that was due to Shepard. Yeah, they brought Shepard back and the Normandy back... And it stops there for the most part. Besides, as Joker in the DLC said, they always have their projects going and killing their own people. Including project Lazerus, considering Shepard's Cerberus kill count in ME3.

[Erez Kristal]

andy69156915 wrote...

Most of that was due to Shepard. Yeah, they brought Shepard back and the Normandy back... And it stops there for the most part. Besides, as Joker in the DLC said, they always have their projects going and killing their own people. Including project Lazerus, considering Shepard's Cerberus kill count in ME3.

They pull a lot of resources to bring shepard back, create edi and the normandy, maybe even most of their resources for these three projects at that time. and you have to admit they were much mre successful that the alliance in the aspect. project lazerus was a major success. shepard alive, reapers stopped. The derlict reaper project was also a success as they managed to extract the reaper iff which was important for the sucess of the sucide mission.

firewalker was successful - They found the prothean data they were looking for despite the hard chase by the geth and collectors.

Miranda and jacob managed to stop a big bio war- very succesful

Pragia - A lot of knowledge about human biotics was learned and used later in alliance programs. jack toning of skills used to help shepard on the sucide mission

threshemaws. thorian creeper, rachni and using huskyfying artifacts, geth research(such as overlord). it is hard to tell how did they create edi or brought back shepard. maybe one of these earlier project which are considered faliure contributed to the success of the lazerus project and the enahnched defence intelligence. 

[andy6915]

Firewalker succeeded... Because of Shepard. Pragia was successful... But created a super biotic who killed a lot of their guys (as usual). The others were apparently interrupted by Shepard before they had the chance to kill the Cerberus guys themselves. EDI was successful... And started killing a lot of their guys.

[Erez Kristal]

andy69156915 wrote...

Firewalker succeeded... Because of Shepard. Pragia was successful... But created a super biotic who killed a lot of their guys (as usual). The others were apparently interrupted by Shepard before they had the chance to kill the Cerberus guys themselves. EDI was successful... And started killing a lot of their guys.

 cerberus sure played high risk- high reward projects- which is why they managed to save the galaxy...

Shepard success was cerberus success the two are entwined. They invested on shepard instead of recruiting more people and more ships on that time because they knew he was the only one capable to bringing down the collectors and getting them all that high savy tech. if they went on another path they could have hired a better cleaning service with the likes of miranda, jacob and zaheed. 

Modifié par erezike, 19 mai 2013 - 07:12 .

[andy6915]

Shepard saved the galaxy, you mean.

[Erez Kristal]

andy69156915 wrote...

Shepard saved the galaxy, you mean.

I hardly see the difference, no cerberus no shepard, no normandy, no edi.
Dont forget all those savy upgrades. god know where i would be without the time dilation upgrades i recieved from all those unknown implants.. and those terminator arms.. now my shepard was able to lift a few tons with no sweat and survive all that clumsy falling!

[andy6915]

Cerberus was the 1-up mushroom, Shepard was Mario. Now which was it that saved the princess? Mario.

[Erez Kristal]

andy69156915 wrote...

Cerberus was the 1-up mushroom, Shepard was Mario. Now which was it that saved the princess? Mario.

more like shepard was a striker and team captain, miranda the coach and the illusive man the manager.

what was edi? edi was the normandy and responsible of team spirit.  

without anderson shepard and cerberus could have kept working together and become  much more successful. many more humans could be saved from the reapers. im not so sure about the turians and krogan, they would most likely be screwed....

But tim did seem to fancy the blue babes(as can be seen in shadow broker)

Modifié par erezike, 19 mai 2013 - 07:47 .

[andy6915]

The thing is, Mario missed a jump and fell down the hole and lost a life, but that last 1-up kept a gameover from happening and allowed Mario to win the game... Mario is the hero, not the 1-up. Just like Shepard missed an escape pod and lost a life, but that project kept a gameover from happening and allowed Shepard to win the war... Shepard is the hero, not Cerberus.

[Erez Kristal]

andy69156915 wrote...

The thing is, Mario missed a jump and fell down the hole and lost a life, but that last 1-up kept a gameover from happening and allowed Mario to win the game... Mario is the hero, not the 1-up. Just like Shepard missed an escape pod and lost a life, but that project kept a gameover from happening and allowed Shepard to win the war... Shepard is the hero, not Cerberus.

cerberus didnt only give him a new a life, they also gave him resources, intel, edi, the normandy and upgrades his abilities.
Thats a pretty big mushroom

[JasonShepard]

By the time Anderson launched his attack on Cereberus, they had outlived their usefulness and were actively damaging efforts against the Reapers. Yes, they brought Shepard back. Yes, they provided a shiny new ship and helped against the Collectors.

However, Retribution canonically takes place after ME2. One of TIMs opening monologues mentions taking technology from the Collector Base - specifically the technology that they use on Grayson. That abuse of Reaper tech very nearly ended up with the Reapers taking out the Grissom Academy and getting a nice stock of biotics to abuse...

I do realise that the main reason Grayson escaped was due to Anderson's attack, HOWEVER if TIM had shared the technology, studied it under more controlled circumstances, and not decided to use it on a kidnapped victim, we wouldn't have gotten into this mess. And we would have had evidence to give to the Council to prove the Reapers were coming.

Anderson's attack on Cerberus was fully justified. A stronger Cerberus in ME3, which still had substantial control over the Alliance, would have made things a LOT more difficult.

Shepard was back, the Collectors had been taken out of the equation, the Reapers were coming and Cerberus was no longer being helpful. They'd outlived their usefulness - it was time to pay for the 'terrorist' part of 'terrorist organisation'.

I just wish Anderson had taken the extra time to kill off Kai Leng when he had the chance...

[DeathScepter]

They never outlived their usefulness.

[Wolfva2]

Oh hell folks, if you don't like the thread don't post in it. Sheesh, the world doesn't revolve around YOU, stop thinking it does.

As far as Anderson being a war criminal....yeahhhhh. Right. Uh huh. You can posit what MIGHT have happened had Cerebus not been around all you like. Bottom line is it WAS around in the game. Anderson can only act on what he knows, not on ambiguous 'might have beens'. Further, Cerebus IS a criminal organization which enslaves, tortures, experiments upon, extorts, kidnaps, and kills many people. They're hardly a benevolent group.

[Ahms]

The hidden message here is that Cerberus is a necessary evil to exist.

[Erez Kristal]

In retribution  tim proves to a patriot and grudge less hero. while anderson proves how badly he fails to see the bigger picture.
tim and leng finnaly get a chance to close loose ends with grayson who betrayed the cerberus cause and now runs a criminal life with aria. in order to expirment safely with the reaper tech shepard left him to study when he kept the collector base tim expriment on grayson in a station under safetey measures.
 
When anderson recieves the call from sanders he sees this an opportunity to make a bigger name for himself and sells the alliance and cerberus to the turians jeopardising an important reaper study despite his knowledge of cerberus recent achievements and live saving operations.
 
During the turian attack on the cerberus station grayson escapes and only then does he oppose a threat, the illusive man does what he can to stop them. but the turians who arrived their due to anderson reckless actions prevent the illusive man from stopping grayson. grayson kills the turians and only then makes his way to grissom acadamy.
 
Despite realizing how dangerous grayson is anderson still refuses to work with leng to bring him down and if it wasnt leng heroic actions and cunning all of the people in grissom would be killed and the reapers would have gained valuble intel on the alliance. how does anderson rewards leng for rescuing him and sanders? he shoots him in both his legs.

even in the end tim doesnt interfere with anderson research or look for vengence for anderson folly because he knows they have to work together to fight the reapers. if the research he conducted wasnt interrupted by anderson  and cerberus wasnt hit by the turians the chances for working togehter in a safer way would have been greater in me3. anderson changed all that with his arrogant search for pride. Anderson has a lot more blood on his hand than the illusive man and cerberus and for reasons much less noble.

Modifié par erezike, 20 mai 2013 - 02:48 .