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[Vaneheim]

The other endings are so insistent on forcing Shepard into a moral compromise that they come across as a malicious joke on the part of the writer, not a tough choice that demands a meaningful sacrifice.

Refuse would have been the preferred ending for my Shepard if the game had just faded to black after the Epic Speech, rather than definitively stating "everyone dies, and the next cycle was smart enough to use the Crucible, TROLOLOLO." ME3 wasn't designed with sequels in mind anyway, so why not have one ending that is truly open to speculation and headcanon?

[MegaSovereign]

Vaneheim wrote...

The other endings are so insistent on forcing Shepard into a moral compromise that they come across as a malicious joke on the part of the writer, not a tough choice that demands a meaningful sacrifice.

Refuse would have been the preferred ending for my Shepard if the game had just faded to black after the Epic Speech, rather than definitively stating "everyone dies, and the next cycle was smart enough to use the Crucible, TROLOLOLO." ME3 wasn't designed with sequels in mind anyway, so why not have one ending that is truly open to speculation and headcanon?

Because part of the outrage of the original ending was the ambiguity and speculation...

[Bill Casey]

All of the endings are a joke...

[Iakus]

MegaSovereign wrote...

Vaneheim wrote...

The other endings are so insistent on forcing Shepard into a moral compromise that they come across as a malicious joke on the part of the writer, not a tough choice that demands a meaningful sacrifice.

Refuse would have been the preferred ending for my Shepard if the game had just faded to black after the Epic Speech, rather than definitively stating "everyone dies, and the next cycle was smart enough to use the Crucible, TROLOLOLO." ME3 wasn't designed with sequels in mind anyway, so why not have one ending that is truly open to speculation and headcanon?

Because part of the outrage of the original ending was the ambiguity and speculation...

And bleakness.  Dont' forget bleakness.

Whcih apparantly is cured by a good coat of whitewash.

[Excella Gionne]

If you're a stubborn renegade person all the way, then yeah. This is what you get for ALWAYS picking the bottom dialogue. The Catalyst will give you one last warning to reconsider if you're leaning towards refusal.

[Bill Casey]

johnnythao89 wrote...

If you're a stubborn renegade person all the way, then yeah. This is what you get for ALWAYS picking the bottom dialogue. The Catalyst will give you one last warning to reconsider if you're leaning towards refusal.

Refuse is the only Paragon option...

[Raging_Pulse]

dreamgazer wrote...

Well, there is another constant element, regardless of paragon or renegade Shepards:

^^ Some of the implications from Control ending slides like this one are both tragic and pretty damn comical at the same time, if you ask me.

Members of an advanced alien race, fully sentient, independent and self aware super inteligent beings, directly responsible for butchering of trillions of innocent people, are now hanging out and chilling among us like nothing ever happened. They're like: "Oops, sorry about that bro, my boss made me do it, I swear. Here, lemme fix your relays and stuff. No hard feelings right?"

I wonder if there is some kind of organized anti-Reaper resistance movement in the post-Control galaxy (even paragon Shep version of it) that demands retribution, openly oposes and actively tries to undermine the new order?

As for the Refuse ending, I saw it on YouTube; the speech is fantastic but knowing what I know now, I doubt I'll choose it for any of my future Shepards. However, If I could somehow get my memory wiped and get the chance to experience Mass Effect for the first time all over again, I'm 100% certain I would go for Refuse thinking (or hoping) I would thus reject Catalyst's "solutions" and somehow still be able to win the game.

[Excella Gionne]

Bill Casey wrote...

johnnythao89 wrote...

If you're a stubborn renegade person all the way, then yeah. This is what you get for ALWAYS picking the bottom dialogue. The Catalyst will give you one last warning to reconsider if you're leaning towards refusal.

Refuse is the only Paragon option...

It's not Paragon when you choose to not act upon choices that will help you in the long run. To only get so far just to FAIL and die is not worth the long-term struggle. And I hate it when people just keep bringing up nonsense about "Oh, well that ending is better than Mass Effect 3's ending." It's just complete bull****.

[KaiserShep]

Under control, it's pretty much a guarantee that a number of factions would be gunning to wipe out the reapers.

[Eain]

GHNR wrote...

Eain wrote...

GHNR wrote...

In Exile wrote...

David7204 wrote...

There's nothing the Catalyst stands to gain by lying.

Shepard's death would be an obvious thing to gain. 

Then he would've just left him to bleed out in the chamber he was in with Harper and Anderson.

Not necessarily. Vendetta already explained on Thessia how the cycle is more than just a 50.000 year routine of annihilation. Many elements also overlap, such as each cycle having a Cerberus of its own.

What if each cycle (or each cycle that proceeds outside the standard invasion plan, if you prefer) also has a Shepard of its own, and each cycle that Shepard fights their way up to meet the Reaper Overlord and there is conned into suicide and self sacrifice to not only power the Crucible (surprise surprise, the missing component is actually a human life) but also deliver the Reapers instant victory?

"But why would the Reapers go to such lengths when they have the power to win anyway?" I hear you ask.

The answer to that is simple: they don't -need- the Crucible's activation. It's just convenient. Easy. They're machines. They've calculated all the possibilities. Covered each angle. Even if one doesn't play out, the others do.

Interesting idea, but I unfortunately must disprove it; when you meet the Catalyst it does say you're the first organic ever to reach this point.

That doesn't disprove a thing. We've already established that Shepard has no reason to believe anything the Catalyst says and that untruth and deception are the Reapers' favourite hobbies after turning organics into goo.

Modifié par Eain, 20 mai 2013 - 09:01 .

[nos_astra]

Just imagine an ending where the players knowledge of medium and genre and their expectation of having their avatar succeed would backfire.

Everyone constantly tells Shepard how special they are. Especially special, Cerberus even bring them back to life because of how special they are, no one could possibly successfully lead a squad of mercenaries. No one could defeat the Reapers by following a linear corridor to the end with the Reapers leaving the door helpfully open with a giant ENTER HERE PLEASE sign attached to it, being brought to the decision chamber by your enemy who will then tell you that your specialness has been proven by your ability to reach that chamber.

Only to hear him further stroke your ego about how your sacrifice will make everything fine ... just be arrogant and gullible enough to let yourself be pressured make this choice now, it'll lead to awesomeness and glory ... only to have revealed that there was never a choice to begin with because cycle chose not to use the knowledge and you only played into your enemies' hands ... but it doesn't really matter because rocks fall, everyone dies anyway.

Modifié par klarabella, 20 mai 2013 - 09:21 .

[Jadebaby]

I love Bill Casey.


Keep fighting the good fight.

[David7204]

klarabella wrote...

Just imagine an ending where the players knowledge of medium and genre and their expectation of having their avatar succeed would backfire.

Everyone constantly tells Shepard how special they are. Especially special, Cerberus even bring them back to life because of how special they are, no one could possibly successfully lead a squad of mercenaries. No one could defeat the Reapers by following a linear corridor to the end with the Reapers leaving the door helpfully open with a giant ENTER HERE PLEASE sign attached to it, being brought to the decision chamber by your enemy who will then tell you that your specialness has been proven by your ability to reach that chamber.

Only to hear him further stroke your ego about how your sacrifice will make everything fine ... just be arrogant and gullible enough to let yourself be pressured make this choice now, it'll lead to awesomeness and glory ... only to have revealed that there was never a choice to begin with because cycle chose not to use the knowledge and you only played into your enemies' hands ... but it doesn't really matter because rocks fall, everyone dies anyway.

Is that your idea of 'maturity'?

[Solaxe]

Bill Casey wrote...

Refuse is the only Paragon option...

Since when betrayal and genocide is Paragon?

Modifié par Solaxe, 20 mai 2013 - 09:39 .

[Stormcutter]

I might be unique in saying this, but I don't really have a problem with the endings post-EC.

I don't like what they force me to do one way or another, but I have no problem with the fact that none of my options are entirely perfect.

Refusal is just stupid though. Anybody who picks it needs to get their head's checked. It has all the problems of Destroy and Synthesis (Genocide and not taking the opinion of anybody else into the equation) with none of the benefits.

[Iakus]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

You got a version of what you wanted, but didn't really enjoy it.

It's like asking someone to bring home dinner because you don't want to cook, and they get McDonalds. It works, and it's what you asked for, but it's McDonalds.

McDonalds would be a feast compared to what we got.  The "dinner" was burnt, stomped on, and tossed in a puddle.  Then people are curious why players aren't happy with it.

Get what was wanted?  Maybe.  In a Monkey's Paw kind of way.  Which is not so good for the ol' public image.  Just makes them look petty.

[dreamgazer]

The drama!

[TheProtheans]

spirosz wrote...

The Mad Hanar wrote...

iakus wrote...

The Mad Hanar wrote...

People said they'd be happy with an ending where everyone died as long as Shepard didn't give into the Catalyst, so Bioware put in an ending exactly like that.

Direct response to fan feedback.

Funny, I recall more requests to have success or failure be determined by EMS.

And it is. 

^ yeah, what iakus? 

It's all fail

[TheProtheans]

Refuse gets too much abuse from narrow minded people.
I think I will need to start showing my support for this ending which shows the best qualities of being human, you.
Especially since all the races can survive, refuse is a happy ending where principles earn victory.
Bioware just didn't have the budget and space to expand refuse, it can be whatever you want it to be.

[Solaxe]

TheProtheans wrote...

Refuse gets too much abuse from narrow minded people.
I think I will need to start showing my support for this ending which shows the best qualities of being human, you.
Especially since all the races can survive, refuse is a happy ending where principles earn victory.
Bioware just didn't have the budget and space to expand refuse, it can be whatever you want it to be.

Everybody dies. For nothing.

So deep.

[KaiserShep]

Extinction never felt so heroic.

[MegaSovereign]

iakus wrote...

The Mad Hanar wrote...

You got a version of what you wanted, but didn't really enjoy it.

It's like asking someone to bring home dinner because you don't want to cook, and they get McDonalds. It works, and it's what you asked for, but it's McDonalds.

McDonalds would be a feast compared to what we got.  The "dinner" was burnt, stomped on, and tossed in a puddle.  Then people are curious why players aren't happy with it.

Get what was wanted?  Maybe.  In a Monkey's Paw kind of way.  Which is not so good for the ol' public image.  Just makes them look petty.

Did Bioware beat you up and take your lunch money too? I thought I was the only one.

[KaiserShep]

It was a renegade interrupt. They couldn't help themselves.