360 réponses à ce sujet

[Cainhurst Crow]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Jadebaby wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

What they wanted, from what I observed, is a happy ending where as few characters as possible or impossibly, die. And where no negative consequences occur, and where shepard defeats the reapers without any sort of interaction with them outside of "Let's blow them up" and done.

Sure it would be extremely naive of me to think that no one wanted that, but if you think that was most people's problem with the ending, you're a moron.

+ ∞
People hate it for a lot of reasons, but because it wasn't a super-happy ending isn't a very common one at all. These are by no means all of them, but here are a few of the bigger ones:

- Lack of closure, which =/= ultra-happy ending.
- It came out of nowhere
- It disregards the themes and lore
- It's incredibly lame to introduce a new character that important in the last 10 minute
- Why a kid?

So your saying that if bioware were to make a new ending, in which all shepard did was beat tim and than literally push a button to activate the crucible, and all the reapers were wiped out and seen being wiped out, with the relays not getting damaged, the normandy and edi being fine, and a final shot of the normandy touching down where shepard is on the citadel and the LI going over and helping them up, followed by a slide show and voice over, that a large majority of people here complaining about the endings would not stop complaining and proclaim "Bioware did the best thing ever, 100/10 would play forever"?

[Jadebaby]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Jadebaby wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

What they wanted, from what I observed, is a happy ending where as few characters as possible or impossibly, die. And where no negative consequences occur, and where shepard defeats the reapers without any sort of interaction with them outside of "Let's blow them up" and done.

Sure it would be extremely naive of me to think that no one wanted that, but if you think that was most people's problem with the ending, you're a moron.

 Do prove have a way to prove me otherwise? How is it that by adding some simple emotionally pleasing scenes, almost half the bioware denouncers on these forums gave in. How is it that the very mod you champion, which has just as little closure or logic as the other endings, is so well supported and proclaimed the true ending? How is it that every time bioware simply does something to enforce a positive emotion in it's story, suddenly a majority of the boards comes on biowares side and says that what they've done is the best thing ever?

Because ignorance is bliss.

As for "the very mod I champion".. I don't consider that a happy ending by any means. People say the entirety of ME3 was catharsis.. well to that end I say the entirety of ME3 was the ending. This means that what mehem actually does, is it allows for those sacrifices made by friends and others throughout the story to actually mean something in the final minutes, without being overshadowed by a bunch of "art".

It's bittersweet at its finest and If I were Mr. Fob, I'd change the name of the mod.

[EpicBoot2daFace]

What does it matter? If you don't find the option appealing then pick a different one.

[Seboist]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

- It came out of nowhere
- It disregards the themes and lore

Sounds par for the course with the rest of ME3 and 2.

ME3 ending is the logical conclusion to what began with Lazarus in ME2 where the protagonist is killed for plot contrived idiocy and used for little more than jokes after the fact. It didn't "come out of nowhere" one bit.

[Faust1979]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Jadebaby wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

What they wanted, from what I observed, is a happy ending where as few characters as possible or impossibly, die. And where no negative consequences occur, and where shepard defeats the reapers without any sort of interaction with them outside of "Let's blow them up" and done.

Sure it would be extremely naive of me to think that no one wanted that, but if you think that was most people's problem with the ending, you're a moron.

+ ∞
People hate it for a lot of reasons, but because it wasn't a super-happy ending isn't a very common one at all. These are by no means all of them, but here are a few of the bigger ones:

- Lack of closure, which =/= ultra-happy ending.
- It came out of nowhere
- It disregards the themes and lore
- It's incredibly lame to introduce a new character that important in the last 10 minute
- Why a kid?

it doesn't really come out of nowhere, someone has to be controlling all these things an advanced AI makes sense. It doesn't disregard the theme or lore, Many Sci fi stories introduce some big thing at the climax, something you haven't seen of the enemies before.  Why a kid? maybe less threatning I've seen a few child Ai's pop in stories or other movies sometimes as bad guys before it doesn't happen a lot but Mass Effect isn't the first to do it

[Jadebaby]

Darth Brotarian wrote...
So your saying that if bioware were to make a new ending, in which all shepard did was beat tim and than literally push a button to activate the crucible, and all the reapers were wiped out and seen being wiped out, with the relays not getting damaged, the normandy and edi being fine, and a final shot of the normandy touching down where shepard is on the citadel and the LI going over and helping them up, followed by a slide show and voice over, that a large majority of people here complaining about the endings would not stop complaining and proclaim "Bioware did the best thing ever, 100/10 would play forever"?

Your extremely dry use of hyperbole is not helping your argument.

[KaiserShep]

Han Shot First wrote...

Eain wrote...

Lots of gullible Shepards in this thread.

There is nothing gullible about choosing not to epic fail.

Refuse is a critical mission failure by a tactically incompetent Shepard who isn't fit to lead a girl scout troop.

i guess it's hard to come to terms with the hopelessness of the situation. 

[Inquisitor Recon]

I suppose they needed an option for those who are so self-righteous that they refuse to ever compromise their sense of morality, galaxy be damned. I think it's good to have one final "ultimate a**hole" option at the end.

[chemiclord]

BansheeOwnage wrote...
People just wanted a good end, with closure. They didn't want to have the last part of a character-driven trilogy be turned into an artistic experiment. That really isn't too much to ask.

I'm always a bit torn on how to respond to this... because you AREN'T WRONG.  I do want to put that forward.

Now with that said...

When one of the LOUDEST complaints about the original endings were that they don't make logical sense... to then get pissy over the Refuse ending following a perfectly logical conclusion to your decision comes across as a bit hypocritical.  I do not know how ANYONE choosing to refuse would (or should) have expected anything other than what they got.

[Eain]

Han Shot First wrote...

Eain wrote...

Lots of gullible Shepards in this thread.

There is nothing gullible about choosing not to epic fail.

Refuse is a critical mission failure by a tactically incompetent Shepard who isn't fit to lead a girl scout troop.

Picking a colour is an accidental mission success by a Shepard who believes the Reaper Overlord on a whim and not only commits suicide because he tells her its a good idea but also has no problem potentially sabotaging parts of the Crucible in the process.

[HiddenInWar]

At least the option is there for those who want it.

I don't know why anyone would though. A trilogy playthrough with the goal to do the refuse "ending" would be so grave. Has anyone ever attempted that?

[TheProtheans]

Seboist wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

- It came out of nowhere
- It disregards the themes and lore

Sounds par for the course with the rest of ME3 and 2.

ME3 ending is the logical conclusion to what began with Lazarus in ME2 where the protagonist is killed for plot contrived idiocy and used for little more than jokes after the fact. It didn't "come out of nowhere" one bit.

I suppose, he shouldn't have died.
It would have been better if he was abandoned by the alliance and overrun and got badly injured and then got fixed by Cerberus because he was broken.
ME3 is the conclusion to his messiah story, where he sacrifices himself for the sins of organics.

[Isaidlunch]

I love the Refuse option; it's shows just what a monster super-Paragon Shepard is.

[MegaSovereign]

HiddenInWar wrote...

At least the option is there for those who want it.

I don't know why anyone would though. A trilogy playthrough with the goal to do the refuse "ending" would be so grave. Has anyone ever attempted that?

Planning to, down the line. I'm trying to do as many variations of trilogy playthroughs as possible before I put it down.

[TheProtheans]

HiddenInWar wrote...

At least the option is there for those who want it.

I don't know why anyone would though. A trilogy playthrough with the goal to do the refuse "ending" would be so grave. Has anyone ever attempted that?

I imagine they pick it because it doesn't matter in the end what you pick.
You can speculate as to how the Reapers were beaten, maybe the races even survived.

[David7204]

I've yet to see a shred of convincing reasoning or evidence arguing that Shepard shouldn't have died.

[EpicBoot2daFace]

HiddenInWar wrote...

At least the option is there for those who want it.

I don't know why anyone would though. A trilogy playthrough with the goal to do the refuse "ending" would be so grave. Has anyone ever attempted that?

Yes, there are people who choose the option after playing through the games.

[BansheeOwnage]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Jadebaby wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

What they wanted, from what I observed, is a happy ending where as few characters as possible or impossibly, die. And where no negative consequences occur, and where shepard defeats the reapers without any sort of interaction with them outside of "Let's blow them up" and done.

Sure it would be extremely naive of me to think that no one wanted that, but if you think that was most people's problem with the ending, you're a moron.

+ ∞
People hate it for a lot of reasons, but because it wasn't a super-happy ending isn't a very common one at all. These are by no means all of them, but here are a few of the bigger ones:

- Lack of closure, which =/= ultra-happy ending.
- It came out of nowhere
- It disregards the themes and lore
- It's incredibly lame to introduce a new character that important in the last 10 minute
- Why a kid?

So your saying that if bioware were to make a new ending, in which all shepard did was beat tim and than literally push a button to activate the crucible, and all the reapers were wiped out and seen being wiped out, with the relays not getting damaged, the normandy and edi being fine, and a final shot of the normandy touching down where shepard is on the citadel and the LI going over and helping them up, followed by a slide show and voice over, that a large majority of people here complaining about the endings would not stop complaining and proclaim "Bioware did the best thing ever, 100/10 would play forever"?

Don't twist my words. You are suggesting a minor revamp of what we got. I am talking about a hypothetical situation without the base ending we have. Rather, a completely different one. So no, that's not what I'm saying at all.

[David7204]

Plenty of people have suggested exactly that. I've noticed that. Whenever there's a thread about MEHEM, people are sure to tell me that nobody would ever, ever think of MEHEM as a perfect ending!

But several times I've proposed a hypothetical ending where the Crucible fires, the Reapers die, no Catalyst, no new information or challenges.In other words, a more polished MEHEM. And the responses I get are always overwhelmingly positive.

Modifié par David7204, 19 mai 2013 - 08:25 .

[Ryzaki]

Pfft you know I wouldn't even hate the refuse ending so much if not for that BS twitter canon that the next cycle used the Crucible anyway.

I didn't expect Shep's cycle to win. They had squandered their chances time and time agan.

But the next cycle having to utimately bend over to starbrat ANYWAY?

F*** that noise. FU ending to the fullest.

[mumba]

Inquisitor Recon wrote...

I suppose they needed an option for those who are so self-righteous that they refuse to ever compromise their sense of morality, galaxy be damned. I think it's good to have one final "ultimate a**hole" option at the end.

What, synthesis? 

[BansheeOwnage]

chemiclord wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...
People just wanted a good end, with closure. They didn't want to have the last part of a character-driven trilogy be turned into an artistic experiment. That really isn't too much to ask.

I'm always a bit torn on how to respond to this... because you AREN'T WRONG.  I do want to put that forward.

Now with that said...

When one of the LOUDEST complaints about the original endings were that they don't make logical sense... to then get pissy over the Refuse ending following a perfectly logical conclusion to your decision comes across as a bit hypocritical.  I do not know how ANYONE choosing to refuse would (or should) have expected anything other than what they got.

Yeah, it makes sense that everyone dies in refuse, if that's what you mean. It would have been epic if you could actually see some of that happen though. Maybe some heart-wrenching scene of squadmates having a greek hero's death? The Normandy blowing up? Hackett ramming a reaper? The possibilites are endless. Hell, people wanted stuff like that anyway.

[MegaSovereign]

JimmyRustles wrote...

Inquisitor Recon wrote...

I suppose they needed an option for those who are so self-righteous that they refuse to ever compromise their sense of morality, galaxy be damned. I think it's good to have one final "ultimate a**hole" option at the end.

/thread

I think it fits a tragic Shepard type. The anti-hero of sorts where he seems oblivious to how inaction is the most morally corrupt thing you could do at that moment.

[BansheeOwnage]

Mumba1511 wrote...

Inquisitor Recon wrote...

I suppose they needed an option for those who are so self-righteous that they refuse to ever compromise their sense of morality, galaxy be damned. I think it's good to have one final "ultimate a**hole" option at the end.

What, synthesis?