129 réponses à ce sujet

[Plaintiff]

Medhia Nox wrote...
@Plaintiff: And yet, their worlds are remarkably familiar to my own without convoluting every single thing with the word "magic".

So what?

That they chose to create a fictional reality with certain similarities to actual reality is irrelevant. They could've just as easily chosen not to.

They decided upon a fantasy threshold that they need not cross to tell a story.

Again, so what?

Of course they don't "need" to cross some nonsensical threshold, they also don't "need" to respect your arbitrary, narrow-minded and hypocritical definition of what is acceptable in fantasy. They don't "need" to do anything. Authors can write whatever kind of story they want.

Any author who thinks adding more dragons - wizards - or floating castles - or "magic" is what makes a good story - is a hack.

This has nothing to do with anything that I've said, and shows me not only that you don't understand any of my points, but that your conception of Fantasy is extremely limited.

You're correct - I'd never read trash like that.

On the contrary, I suspect that what little Fantasy you do read is exactly trash. Homogenized, unimaginative trash.

Not answering questions - and leaving it up to "the mysteries of the world" - is lazy and leads to a forum filled with pointless debates (like this one).

And yet that's exactly what we're doing every minute of our lives in the real world. Unless you care to explain to me right now why our entire known universe works the way it does and not some other way.

This is not a "detailed magical system".

It is not necessary for magic to explain where it comes from, anymore than it is necessary for physics to explain where it comes from. In order to count as a "detailed" sytem, it only needs to explain its capabilities and limitations, and even then, only as far as it actually matters to the story.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 20 mai 2013 - 06:11 .

[Iakus]

Androme wrote...

Kossith > ARE < Kossith, they just don't primarily identify themselves with their race first, but their religion, thus they call themselves Qunari and not Kossith, when asked ''what'' or ''who'' they are, but if someone asked a specific question like: ''What race are you?'', then a Kossith would probably answer: Kossith.

Actually, the term "kossith" is unknown to most qunari who aren't scholars or historians.  The very concept has been largely stamped out among them.

[Sashimi_taco]

Androme wrote...


No, not backward, but it means the evolutionary process that accelerates over times up until the point where evolutionary changes are no longer needed (if such a point even exists, it's currently debated amongst scientists), has halted in its speed, she carries the genes of both her mother and father, and the evolutionary process of their respective races (from their personal genes) are halted because they had a mixed child. English is not my first language so excuse me if I'm not being clear.

Think of it like this (lol):

Generation 5) Evolutionary process has reached 10km/h. Race is pure.
Generation 6) Evolutionary process has reached 11km/h. Race is pure.
Generation 7) Evolutionary process has resetted to 5km/h. Mixed race.

It's not going back, but it's slowing down the evolutionary process, which species can and should go through to survive in the future. Besides this nonsense about people of mixed heritage being more resistant to more diseases is complete bullcrap. And also let's not forget the genocidal aspect of this, which, if you ask me, is the more important one.

Honestly, you really don't know how evolution works. Even within the fantasy relm of dragon age. None of what you are saying makes sense within evolution. You have a complete misunderstanding of what makes evoution even happen and what the meaning of it is. 

Any and all changes, even mixing races, done to a living organism that is benificial to survival in the current environment is evolution. Most of the time it is genetic mutations that give a slight edge against the environment they live in, or makes it easier for you to find a mate and produce soffspring that lives. 

The point of evolution is to produce offspring that lives. It is not halved between two races because they made a mixed race offspring. It is irrelavent if one species is ahead of the other. What matters is that both species have produced offspring that live. 

My mother's evolutionary line of pure blood japanese is not corrupted by my father's evolutionary line of pure blood scottish. I am the product of both evolutionary lines and have lived to the age of being able to reproduce and have a long term significant other. I plan of having offspring and am a fertile human being, therfore I am an evolutionary success. Evolution is not a race between things, it is a matter of making your personal offspring live. 

The way you look at the subject is completey warped and incorrect. 

[Lavaeolus]

If we did not allow for mixed races, we would lose the avenue to reproduce through that way. Therefore, we would lower our reproducibility, and step down the evolutionary ladder, as it were. Unless said mixed race offspring started puking blood or something when born, and died.

If the offspring does not suffer any disadvantages, and can mate properly, I see no reason why it would inherently go backwards in the figuritive evolutionary line.

Modifié par Mr Maniac, 20 mai 2013 - 07:02 .

[Harle Cerulean]

Some people in here need to take a basic freaking physical anthropology class and learn how evolution works. It's not a linear progression, or even a really wobbly progression. There is no "progress" to be "interrupted" by mixing two bloodlines. There is no "ladder," and there is no '"goal" to it. Eesh.

[Herr Uhl]

I hope not.

[I SOLD MY SOUL TO BIOWARE]

 Hmmm...how do Kossith and humans mate?

[Sashimi_taco]

Harle Cerulean wrote...

Some people in here need to take a basic freaking physical anthropology class and learn how evolution works. It's not a linear progression, or even a really wobbly progression. There is no "progress" to be "interrupted" by mixing two bloodlines. There is no "ladder," and there is no '"goal" to it. Eesh.

+1

[AtreiyaN7]

Sashimi_taco wrote...

Androme wrote...


No, not backward, but it means the evolutionary process that accelerates over times up until the point where evolutionary changes are no longer needed (if such a point even exists, it's currently debated amongst scientists), has halted in its speed, she carries the genes of both her mother and father, and the evolutionary process of their respective races (from their personal genes) are halted because they had a mixed child. English is not my first language so excuse me if I'm not being clear.

Think of it like this (lol):

Generation 5) Evolutionary process has reached 10km/h. Race is pure.
Generation 6) Evolutionary process has reached 11km/h. Race is pure.
Generation 7) Evolutionary process has resetted to 5km/h. Mixed race.

It's not going back, but it's slowing down the evolutionary process, which species can and should go through to survive in the future. Besides this nonsense about people of mixed heritage being more resistant to more diseases is complete bullcrap. And also let's not forget the genocidal aspect of this, which, if you ask me, is the more important one.

Honestly, you really don't know how evolution works. Even within the fantasy relm of dragon age. None of what you are saying makes sense within evolution. You have a complete misunderstanding of what makes evoution even happen and what the meaning of it is. 

Any and all changes, even mixing races, done to a living organism that is benificial to survival in the current environment is evolution. Most of the time it is genetic mutations that give a slight edge against the environment they live in, or makes it easier for you to find a mate and produce soffspring that lives. 

The point of evolution is to produce offspring that lives. It is not halved between two races because they made a mixed race offspring. It is irrelavent if one species is ahead of the other. What matters is that both species have produced offspring that live. 

My mother's evolutionary line of pure blood japanese is not corrupted by my father's evolutionary line of pure blood scottish. I am the product of both evolutionary lines and have lived to the age of being able to reproduce and have a long term significant other. I plan of having offspring and am a fertile human being, therfore I am an evolutionary success. Evolution is not a race between things, it is a matter of making your personal offspring live. 

The way you look at the subject is completey warped and incorrect. 

Funny thing, but I was reading my May 2013 issue of Scientific American with, surprise, an article about intemixing between modern humans and archaic ones. So here are a few quotes from that article (Human Hybrids by Michael F. Hammer):

1) "...non-Africans today exhibit a 1 to 4 percent Neandertal contribution to their genomes on average."

2) "...the team found a significant amount of DNA from a Denisovan-like population - a contribution of 1 to 6 percent - in Melanesians, Aboriginal Australians, Polynesians, and some related groups in the western Pacific but not in Africans or Eurasians."

3) "During his dissertation...Fernando L. Mendez...found strong evidence that some contemporary non-Africans carry a stretch of chromosome 12 containing the gene STAT2 (which is involved in the body's first line of defense against viral pathogens) that came from Neandertals."

4) "Detailed studies of DNA regions inherited from archaic ancestors will also help tackle the question of whether acquiring these genetic variants conferred an adaptive advantage to early H. sapiens. Indeed, STAT2 provides a fascinating example of an apparently advantageous archaic variant entering the modern human gene pool. Approximately 10 percent of people from Eurasia and Oceania carry the Neandertal-like variant of STAT2. Interestingly, it occurs at a roughly 10-fold higher frequency in Melanesia than in East Asia. Analysis suggests that this DNA segment rose to high frequency through positive natural selection (that is, because it aided reproductive success or survival) rather than merely by chance, implying that it benefited the anatomically modern populations of Melanesia."

5) "Similarly, a Neandertal-like section of the so-called human leukocyte antigen (HLA) region of the genome appears to have risen to relatively high frequency in Eurasian populations as a result of positive natural selection related to its role in fighting pathogens. Perhaps we should not be surprised to find archaic contributions containing genes that function to increase immunity."

^^^^^ See the quoted material up there, Androme? What you're calling bullcrap happens to be true. Not only was there intermixing between modern and archaic humans, the "mixed heritage" children inherited archaic genes that helped them to resist/combat diseases. You might want to rethink your position there, because it seems quite ignorant on the whole.

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 20 mai 2013 - 09:23 .

[Fallstar]

Let's face it, you only care about the 2nd part of your topic.

[Sashimi_taco]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...


Funny thing, but I was reading my May 2013 issue of Scientific American with, surprise, an article about intemixing between modern humans and archaic ones. So here are a few quotes from that article (Human Hybrids by Michael F. Hammer):

1) "...non-Africans today exhibit a 1 to 4 percent Neandertal contribution to their genomes on average."

2) "...the team found a significant amount of DNA from a Denisovan-like population - a contribution of 1 to 6 percent - in Melanesians, Aboriginal Australians, Polynesians, and some related groups in the western Pacific but not in Africans or Eurasians."

3) "During his dissertation...Fernando L. Mendez...found strong evidence that some contemporary non-Africans carry a stretch of chromosome 12 containing the gene STAT2 (which is involved in the body's first line of defense against viral pathogens) that came from Neandertals."

4) "Detailed studies of DNA regions inherited from archaic ancestors will also help tackle the question of whether acquiring these genetic variants conferred an adaptive advantage to early H. sapiens. Indeed, STAT2 provides a fascinating example of an apparently advantageous archaic variant entering the modern human gene pool. Approximately 10 percent of people from Eurasia and Oceania carry the Neandertal-like variant of STAT2. Interestingly, it occurs at a roughly 10-fold higher frequency in Melanesia than in East Asia. Analysis suggests that this DNA segment rose to high frequency through positive natural selection (that is, because it aided reproductive success or survival) rather than merely by chance, implying that it benefited the anatomically modern populations of Melanesia."

5) "Similarly, a Neandertal-like section of the so-called human leukocyte antigen (HLA) region of the genome appears to have risen to relatively high frequency in Eurasian populations as a result of positive natural selection related to its role in fighting pathogens. Perhaps we should not be surprised to find archaic contributions containing genes that function to increase immunity."

^^^^^ See the quoted material up there, Androme? What you're calling bullcrap happens to be true. Not only was there intermixing between modern and archaic humans, the "mixed heritage" children inherited archaic genes that helped them to resist/combat diseases. You might want to rethink your position there, because it seems quite ignorant on the whole.

For a while I thought you were argueing with me and i was like "but that is what I cited but from different sources" but then I saw that you directed it at the other guy. :\\ 

[AtreiyaN7]

@Sashimi: Don't worry, that happened to me in another thread too (missed the part where the other guy agreed with me - hehe). Totally support you 100% on this issue, as I really don't think that one can argue against the current scientific research and evidence.

[Lavaeolus]

Harle Cerulean wrote...

Some people in here need to take a basic freaking physical anthropology class and learn how evolution works. It's not a linear progression, or even a really wobbly progression. There is no "progress" to be "interrupted" by mixing two bloodlines. There is no "ladder," and there is no '"goal" to it. Eesh.

There is a reason I was using words like "figurative".

[mousestalker]

It's possible to breed Chihuahuas with Great Danes. That doesn't mean it's a good idea.

That's assuming that the humans and qunari are related somehow. There is a theory that the races in Thedas are the product of convergent evolution.

Modifié par mousestalker, 20 mai 2013 - 09:49 .

[Lavaeolus]

@above: Great Chihuahuas! Chihuahua Danes?

[Knight of Dane]

Hm, me?

[Sashimi_taco]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

@Sashimi: Don't worry, that happened to me in another thread too (missed the part where the other guy agreed with me - hehe). Totally support you 100% on this issue, as I really don't think that one can argue against the current scientific research and evidence.

As an avid reader on topics that I don't really have much use for other than dinner party topics, I take my useless information very seriously. (not that evolutionary science is not important, I just have no real world practical use for it)

[ejoslin]

Volus Warlord wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

If I had to guess, I'd say that a Kossith and pairing of any other race would result in a Kossith offspring, though the only place I could imagine one being born was if a Kossith was captured as a slave by the Tevinter and then raped.

There are several reasons where that happening in any way that might lead to breeding is extraordinarily unlikely (female qunari don't enter combat and are unlikely to be captured, any magistrix who habitually rapes male prisoners is probably going to use protection). However, it may well happen the other way around.

Using protection? It's a fantasy setting! Are we Fable now?

"Hold on before I rape you, I just need to slip on my cast iron condomn before I have my way with you!"

There IS birth control in Thedas, you know.  Wynne says so.

ETA: Wow, this thread took a turn that I should have expected, but didn't.  I should have read a bit more before I posted!

Modifié par ejoslin, 20 mai 2013 - 10:00 .

[Lavaeolus]

But does Wynne ever mention the lack of cast iron condoms? I really hope not.

[Demx]

What about Sten? Is he pure Qunari? Maybe that's why he looks the way he does.

[Sashimi_taco]

mousestalker wrote...

It's possible to breed Chihuahuas with Great Danes. That doesn't mean it's a good idea.

That's assuming that the humans and qunari are related somehow. There is a theory that the races in Thedas are the product of convergent evolution.

*If* we are assuming that their rules of biology apply the same as the earth's (wow i know someone is taking a screen shot of this thread now), then the elves have to be of the same evolutionary family tree as humans. This is because of the elf and dwarf hybrids already known of in DA lore. Quinari and dwarves could still be of convergent evolution, but the dwarves seem really closely related to humans. 

[ashesandwine]

Androme wrote...

No, not backward, but it means the evolutionary process that accelerates over times up until the point where evolutionary changes are no longer needed (if such a point even exists, it's currently debated amongst scientists), has halted in its speed, she carries the genes of both her mother and father, and the evolutionary process of their respective races (from their personal genes) are halted because they had a mixed child. English is not my first language so excuse me if I'm not being clear.

Think of it like this (lol):

Generation 5) Evolutionary process has reached 10km/h. Race is pure.
Generation 6) Evolutionary process has reached 11km/h. Race is pure.
Generation 7) Evolutionary process has resetted to 5km/h. Mixed race.

It's not going back, but it's slowing down the evolutionary process, which species can and should go through to survive in the future. Besides this nonsense about people of mixed heritage being more resistant to more diseases is complete bullcrap. And also let's not forget the genocidal aspect of this, which, if you ask me, is the more important one.

What?? I'm no biology expert but I'm pretty sure Evolution isn't measured in distance over time. But I have to call you out when you said "this nonsense about people of mixed heritage being more resistant to more diseases is complete bullcrap". Now, I am not sure of having a mixed heritage increases your resistant to more diseases but the idea of having a diverse genetic pool was proven to be a good thing.

Having a more diverse genetic pool is good thing because with more variation, it is more likely that some individuals in that population will possess various unique genetic traits that are suited for the environment. With little gene variation within the species, heathy reproduction becomes more difficult, and offsprings are more likely to be prone to more diseases (inbreeding, incest). This is why scientists add and remove genes in crops to yield higher harvest. Doing so would provide you a more resistant straint of crop that can survive, therefore, the increased in harvest. If you can't accept this fact, then I would have to consider that you know nothing at all.

[Sashimi_taco]

ashesandwine wrote...

Androme wrote...

No, not backward, but it means the evolutionary process that accelerates over times up until the point where evolutionary changes are no longer needed (if such a point even exists, it's currently debated amongst scientists), has halted in its speed, she carries the genes of both her mother and father, and the evolutionary process of their respective races (from their personal genes) are halted because they had a mixed child. English is not my first language so excuse me if I'm not being clear.

Think of it like this (lol):

Generation 5) Evolutionary process has reached 10km/h. Race is pure.
Generation 6) Evolutionary process has reached 11km/h. Race is pure.
Generation 7) Evolutionary process has resetted to 5km/h. Mixed race.

It's not going back, but it's slowing down the evolutionary process, which species can and should go through to survive in the future. Besides this nonsense about people of mixed heritage being more resistant to more diseases is complete bullcrap. And also let's not forget the genocidal aspect of this, which, if you ask me, is the more important one.

What?? I'm no biology expert but I'm pretty sure Evolution isn't measured in distance over time. But I have to call you out when you said "this nonsense about people of mixed heritage being more resistant to more diseases is complete bullcrap". Now, I am not sure of having a mixed heritage increases your resistant to more diseases but the idea of having a diverse genetic pool was proven to be a good thing.

Having a more diverse genetic pool is good thing because with more variation, it is more likely that some individuals in that population will possess various unique genetic traits that are suited for the environment. With little gene variation within the species, heathy reproduction becomes more difficult, and offsprings are more likely to be prone to more diseases (inbreeding, incest). This is why scientists add and remove genes in crops to yield higher harvest. Doing so would provide you a more resistant straint of crop that can survive, therefore, the increased in harvest. If you can't accept this fact, then I would have to consider that you know nothing at all.

I think that guy is one of those people who learns the basic concept of something and then makes the rest up in their head. 

Basement evospych theories are always the best to read, in my opinion. But this guy has brought the insane theories against actual scientific fact and I have no idea how one would even come to that point. 

[sandalisthemaker]

The only human/Qunari couple was Saemus and Ashaad. Didn't have to worry about a child with that relationship though.