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Re: Writers: Have ever been Qunari-Human couples in Thedas? Is breeding possible?


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#101
Ianamus

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Looks like some people beat me to the punch: I just learnt recently that the Viscounts son and Ashaad were actually supposed to be ambiguously in a relationship. Of course there's no saying that Ashaad himself was interested in it, all we know is that Seamus was very likely interested in him. 

I'm not sure how common relationships between Qunari and humans/elves/dwarves would be. I'd imagine that they are not very common, and that the majority would be Tal'Vashoth since the Qunari don't really have "couples" as such. 

Whether or not they would be able to reproduce is an interesting question. I'd guess no, but considering humans can reproduce with Dwarves and elves it is a possibility. 

The fact that you can get elven, dwarven, human and Quanri broodmothers would imply that they share genes to a large extent- and It's the closest thing to 'evidence' I can think of that they would be able to cross-breed. I'm not convinced myself, I'd imagine the devs are less likely to make it possible because the Quanri are less human than elves/dwarves, although in reality having children with an elf or dwarf would be just as unlikely as a Qunari. 

If you think human/Qunari offspring is a hilariously impossible idea there is far worse out there- Warcraft has a character who is half-human, quarter orc (who come from a different planet to humans) and a quarter space-goat (who come from a different planet to both orcs AND humans)! At least the Quanri and other races originated on the same planet...

Modifié par EJ107, 21 mai 2013 - 12:51 .


#102
MisanthropePrime

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For all those people talking about racial mixing and evolution, I suggest you look up the topic of "Heterosis" or "Hybrid Vigor". While it's mostly been studied in dogs and other domestic animals with multiple breeds that belong to the same species, there is some scientific literature that suggests it may also apply to "mixed race" humans.

#103
CuriousArtemis

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I think it'd be crazy to assume that no qunari (i.e. kossith) ever fell in love with a non-qunari.

As to whether or not a qunari and a non-qunari can produce offspring, only the writers know.

#104
Fredward

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Doubt it. I think the chances of cross-breeding go down dramatically when more than one horn is involved.

Modifié par Foopydoopydoo, 21 mai 2013 - 05:29 .


#105
Guest_Puddi III_*

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^^ I'm glad my unicorn babies are still happening at least.

#106
Fredward

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^ I know that feel. NO idea what I would do with my life without Amelia, the mother of my seven beautiful narwhal babies.

#107
Rodia Driftwood

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Writers: -Scratch head, thinking-"The fu*k do we know?"

#108
Little Princess Peach

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Op I'm sure it's possible, Qunari is not a race it's a religion, you have diffrent races with in this religion so it should be possible.

#109
Androme

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@Sashimi_Taco
Funny you would accuse me of ''not knowing anything about evolution'' when you say that the entire point of evolution is to produce a fertile offspring, which it isn't.
Evolution is much more than producing a fertile offspring, it goes beyond that, it's, for example, also about adaption, and making sure that your offspring has a chance at surviving.
Evolution is, more precisely than ''producing a fertile offspring''  about ensuring the survival of your genes, but since that requires a partner, requires someone that is not within your family but someone as genetically close to you as possible. You've probably heard both statements from biologists: ''We look for a mate that is genetically close to us'' and ''We look for a mate that is genetically distant from us'', both are true. The former is true because we want to ensure the survival of genes as close to ours as possible, and the latter is true because we don't want to produce an offspring with people from our family.

Letting nature have its way without completely obliterating generations of evolution ensures that the genes are not mixed away and ruined on the altar of romanticization of miscegenation.

Also, (unlike you, no offense, just stating), and like I've mentioned before, there's also a moral aspect to this, and that moral aspect is taking into account the genocidal nature of interracial breeding. My arguments are not solely based on evolutionary consequences of interracial breeding.

___

More on topic, someone mentioned that very few Kossith actually know about the word Kossith. I would be very interested in a source for that because I must admit I'm not too much into Qunari & Kossith lore.

Modifié par Androme, 21 mai 2013 - 07:35 .


#110
Androme

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EJ107 wrote...

If you think human/Qunari offspring is a hilariously impossible idea there is far worse out there- Warcraft has a character who is half-human, quarter orc (who come from a different planet to humans) and a quarter space-goat (who come from a different planet to both orcs AND humans)! At least the Quanri and other races originated on the same planet...


Yeah, that's ridicilous.

#111
Rawgrim

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Its possible now, after DA2. Since the qunari are more horny now.

#112
Cecilia L

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@Rawgrim with sarcasm: hahaha.. ahaha...
nah, who am I kidding, I LOVE bad puns! :)

As Thedas is a fantasy setting where elves and humans can interbreed, I see no reason Kossith and humans could not.

And to all who say it's riddiculous because qunari don't have romantic relationships, the kossith parent could always be tal-vashoth or totally outside any of those afiliations. Maybe they got separated from their family when they were young and were raised by a dwarven/elven/human family and grew up with their values so that they are interested in having relationships like normal, non-qunari.

Modifié par Cecilia L, 22 mai 2013 - 01:26 .


#113
Sashimi_taco

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So I was getting through the second act of DA2 and the Quinari leader said that they let Elves become a part of the Qun.

Doesn't that mean that if the elves are a part of the Qun, then they will at least have the possibility of being allowed to intermarry? And if elves can intermarry, then humans who join the Qun probably could too.

#114
Sashimi_taco

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Androme wrote...

@Sashimi_Taco
Funny you would accuse me of ''not knowing anything about evolution'' when you say that the entire point of evolution is to produce a fertile offspring, which it isn't.
Evolution is much more than producing a fertile offspring, it goes beyond that, it's, for example, also about adaption, and making sure that your offspring has a chance at surviving.
Evolution is, more precisely than ''producing a fertile offspring''  about ensuring the survival of your genes, but since that requires a partner, requires someone that is not within your family but someone as genetically close to you as possible. You've probably heard both statements from biologists: ''We look for a mate that is genetically close to us'' and ''We look for a mate that is genetically distant from us'', both are true. The former is true because we want to ensure the survival of genes as close to ours as possible, and the latter is true because we don't want to produce an offspring with people from our family.

Letting nature have its way without completely obliterating generations of evolution ensures that the genes are not mixed away and ruined on the altar of romanticization of miscegenation.

Also, (unlike you, no offense, just stating), and like I've mentioned before, there's also a moral aspect to this, and that moral aspect is taking into account the genocidal nature of interracial breeding. My arguments are not solely based on evolutionary consequences of interracial breeding.

___

More on topic, someone mentioned that very few Kossith actually know about the word Kossith. I would be very interested in a source for that because I must admit I'm not too much into Qunari & Kossith lore.


I find it magical that you can be able to say so much without actually saying anything on the topic of the mountain of evidence that multiple people in this thread having given you that prove your stance wrong.

As for the "morallity" of the issue, are mixed race people genocide? I guess me and every other Hapa person out there can now gleefully know we are murdering not one, but two races at the same time by simply existing. It is wonderful that even when I am not in Japan, I can still be told I am detrimental to the japanese race for daring to exist as not 100% japanese. 

No seriously that is what a lot of japan born japanese people think. It's disgusting. 

#115
NorwegianPirate

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filetemo wrote...

And in case of breeding, is it even achivable? How does the newborn look like?


For the sake of any human woman who'd end up in such a relationship, I certainly hope not! Horned qunari types are huge. A human-qunari baby would probably be quite difficult - if not impossible - for a lady human to give birth to.

#116
Rixatrix

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Androme wrote...
Letting nature have its way without completely obliterating generations of evolution ensures that the genes are not mixed away and ruined on the altar of romanticization of miscegenation.

Also, (unlike you, no offense, just stating), and like I've mentioned before, there's also a moral aspect to this, and that moral aspect is taking into account the genocidal nature of interracial breeding. My arguments are not solely based on evolutionary consequences of interracial breeding.


"Mixed away and ruined"?  Really?  Your language, at best, walks a very fine line between "scientific" and "bigoted."  Similar reasons were used for arguments outlawing interracial marriage and justifying racial discrimination. Naim v. Naim (1965), for example, as dicussed in Loving v. Virginia (1967), specifically used language like preserving "racial integrity," preventing "corruption of blood," describing the children of interracial couples a "mongrel breed of citizens," and calling interracial pairings the "obliteration of racial pride" in upholding the validity of prohibitions against interracial marriage before Loving abolished them.  Our society has evolved beyond "races shouldn't mix."

As far as the evolutionary argument, ****** sapiens is already out of the Darwinian stage of evolution.  Much of the scientific community believes we've reached an evolutionary dead end, that human evolution is pretty much over.  We change the world around us so much, adaptation is also generally a non-issue now.  As far the rest of the community that believes human evolution is not over, well, the things we have to look forward to being taller, having fewer toes, smaller teeth, and other useless things like that.  The most relevant of the bunch is weaker immune systems, but that has less to do with race and much more to do with our drug- and medically-obsessed culture.  So what amazing genes are getting "ruined" on the "altar of miscegenation"?  Is it blond hair and blue eyes, like a certain group of people wanted preserved a few decades ago?  Shall we dispute the merits of that?  No?  Are there some amazing genetic qualities that some races have and others don't, which cannot be passed on to interracial offspring?  Because there is a list of diseases and medical conditions that are reduced by genetic diversity, and I, for one, cannot think of a single amazing gene that should and can only be preserved by "racial purity."

As far as your "moral aspect," genocide is done to unwilling victims.  Who is the victim in a willing pairing of interracial parents?  What exactly is the moral aspect of interracial pairings?  Whom does it hurt?  Why is it wrong? If your argument is, "Interracial pairings dilute the purity of races," well then, I'd like to tell you about the moral implications of neopolitan ice cream - it dilutes the purity of three ice cream flavors!  Jokes aside, we are people, not animals.  Frowning upon interracial pairings because it "ruins" an electic array of hair, eye, and skin colors for you to feast your eyes upon is worse than no argument at all.  If you meant the scientific argument that preserving diverse specimens is worthwhile, perhaps for study or documentation, then all you need are samples.  

"Race" is largely a social construct, anyway.  You can't say, biologically speaking, "all Russians are like this" or "all Greeks are like this," because it just isn't true.  Nature didn't make race, we did.  We still have the power to redefine what it means.  Biological characteristics, which don't even entirely apply to racial groups, are not the worthy takeaway.  They mean nothing.  What does have meaning, at least to me, is how people lived - music, language, celebrations, literature, customs, clothing, ceremonies, cuisine, etc.  These are the aspects worth preserving because they enrich our lives with art and joy and depth, much more than a pair of blue eyes or some freckles ever could.  It's just like when you meet new people - what matters is not the color of their skin but the content of their character.  Choosing friends based on hair color or skin color or the shape of their noses is ridiculous - what matters is what kind of people they are.  This won't ever change.  So, who cares if we all become one "race" (biologically speaking), when it is the product of people's free will?

--
On topic: Anything is possible.  This is a fantasy universe, after all; things have changed over the the two games, and new things have been introduced, so I'm leaning towards "possible."  A Qunari-human couple would be interesting to interact with in the context of a quest or larger plot line, but the Qunari would probably have to be ex-Qun for it to work in terms of story.

Modifié par BlueMoonSeraphim, 22 mai 2013 - 07:09 .


#117
Fredward

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^

Awesome post is awesome.

Modifié par Foopydoopydoo, 23 mai 2013 - 06:08 .


#118
Guest_Puddi III_*

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BlueMoonSeraphim wrote...

"Mixed away and ruined"?  Really?  Your language, at best, walks a very fine line between "scientific" and "bigoted."

"Fine line"? He's talking about "miscegenation" for ****s sake, how much benefit of the doubt do you people have?

#119
TEWR

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Qunari culture refrains from interbreeding one race with another. The Tamassrans will appoint Elf A to bang Elf B to produce Elf Child A.

They will not have Elf A bang Dwarf A, or Dwarf A bang Human A, or Human A bang Qunari A. Whatever race you are in Qunari culture, that's the race you're going to bang.

#120
kumquats

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There are Half-Orcs all over the place. In Warcraft, Middle Earth and D&D.
Why is a Kossith/Human mix so out there for so many people? LoL wtf

It's actually a good question, if we will ever see something that exotic, since I believe this mix would be as rare as a Half-Orc.

#121
Sifr

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I think it'd be a lot more interesting if it was revealed that Kossith and Humans/Elves/Dwarves could interbred, but the resulting offspring are always infertile and relegated to some form of specialised labour?

Now imagine the plot opportunities if, like some hybrids found in nature, one hybrid was discovered to be fertile despite this! One could imagine the Tamrassan would be very eager to acquire such an individual for study, possible breeding purposes, or to be eliminated simply out of fear?!

This would be far more interesting than simply just a bunch of hybrids running about!

Modifié par Sifr1449, 23 mai 2013 - 12:38 .


#122
Ninja Stan

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This thread is getting far too heated and political. This is your only warning to keep it game-related and civil. Let's keep the real-world sociological rhetoric out of it. Thank you.

#123
LarryDavid

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If humans and kossith share a common ancestor and haven't been isolated from each other for too long, breeding should result in a fertile offspring. Given their resemblance, I would be surprised if it wouldn't be the case (think for instance about all the different dog breeds ).

#124
CuriousArtemis

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NorwegianPirate wrote...

For the sake of any human woman who'd end up in such a relationship, I certainly hope not! Horned qunari types are huge. A human-qunari baby would probably be quite difficult - if not impossible - for a lady human to give birth to.


She might not carry the baby to term, so it might not be so big ... also perhaps their horns grow in later, like during adolescence or something xD

#125
LarryDavid

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motomotogirl wrote...

NorwegianPirate wrote...

For the sake of any human woman who'd end up in such a relationship, I certainly hope not! Horned qunari types are huge. A human-qunari baby would probably be quite difficult - if not impossible - for a lady human to give birth to.


She might not carry the baby to term, so it might not be so big ... also perhaps their horns grow in later, like during adolescence or something xD


Taking the antlers of male deer in consideration, It is a save bet to say that the horns grow later.