24 réponses à ce sujet

[hrpatton]

I've seen a lot of posters advocate turning off Tactics, leaving them off, and always micromanaging the party.

I'm becoming increasingly convinced that micromanagement is the only way for me to play succesfully.  Not "only" in the sense of "preferred," but in the sense of "singular/exclusive."  I can't get a handle on using Tactics effectively at all, even in small battles.

(Part of the problem, I think, is the difficulty of knowing what the individual settings do, and how they stack.  Some of them produce unpredictable results.)

How many of you are never using party Tactics?  How many of you are using them with some characters, but not others?  Anyone using them all or most of the time?

If you're using Tactics extensively, what's working for you?  What are your settings for different characters?  How many sets do you have?

[biggles12345]

i havent' started using them yet, but I would imagine it takes a bit of practice to get the hang of it considering how much stuff there is to play with in there.

[PDXGamerGirl]

I hate party micromanagement. There are times, such as when facing a big boss, that I do it, but for the most part, I move my character (a rogue) behind an enemy, perform a few attacks, and then press LB to cycle through the other three party members. If the tanks need healing, I make them drink. I let the computer use whatever AI tactics it wants. Lather, rinse repeat, and hardly anyone dies. I think I've only used three lesser injury kits on my whole party since I started.



Of course, I'm only about 7 hours in, so maybe I'll change my tune as I progress.

[Jon Kuek]

@pdxgamergirl



what difficulty ur playing on?

[Cork85]

i use it a little bit, the tactics looks a bit confusing and i am not sure what will do what. I have small ones set up such as attack nearest visible target, or use potion when health is low. Everything else i will try to micromanage.

[Soylent]

I can't figure out the tactics. I think that's more for people who don't like hitting the "Pause" and want to just rush into battles head first.

I just set it to aggressive or defense or whatever, but I always end up changing the strategy mid-fight anyway.

[CodeKyuubi]

I use tactics. Set everyone to attack what I'm attacking, for divide and conquer purposes, but I'll pause and micromanage if the horde is big enough by knocking a good half or so down or stunning or freezing, et cetera. I've got a healer set healing whenever someone's hp goes below 50% and can manage his hp manually if I need to.



I really just mix the two, tactics and micromanaging. Of course it gets me killed a few times, but I blame it on me playing Hard on my first playthrough.

[sypherin]

Fully micromanaged, not using Tactics. I could NEVER trust AI.

[Eoweth]

Tactics have me so confused.

Modifié par Eoweth, 04 novembre 2009 - 07:25 .

[Ralsar]

I like my companions to be their own people. I leave their decisions in combat up to them based on the AI I specify in the tactics section. Yeah they don't always make the best decisions but to err is human (or elf, dwarf, dog). Kills my immersion when I turn them into puppets by turning tactics off.



I play on normal difficulty. On higher difficulties I'll probably have to micromange them more.

[buffbc]

I'm using tactics as well, but just for a few things...healing, attacking the same creature, etc. I would rather do some micromanaging than have to worry about what a party member is going to run off and do. I'm thinking the more I play that the more I'll use the tactics system.

[Wissenschaft]

I play this on hard and I'm not sure how you can play without the tactics on hard. At the very least set the AI to heal. I do micro my characters to make sure my party is flanking while keeping safe themselves. Also tend to mirco the Mage when I need specific spell combos.

[Promethean 47]

I have been wanting to use tactics and preset AI, but really I find it futile to do so on higher difficulty levels. The behaviors aren't bad, but I think the target selection is horrid. The AI just has them run in blindly at whatever random enemy with no rhyme or reason, causing me to have to pause anyway to get people to go take down the casters first, or to get people to gang up on enemies rather then having 4 peoeple each fighting their own respective enemy.

[PureCanuck]

I've been messing around with tactics fairly steady, playing through on hard. While I certainly don't have all the answers, here are a couple of things I've noticed.

1. The skill Combat Tactics seems to give more numbers of available tactics slots for you to play with.
2. Most of my toons have a relatively low score in Cunning, and as a result, they aren't able to analyze anything too complex. Most of their available conditions are 'Self' only.
3. If you see red text in your condition (the left side of the screen), then your character can't determine if the condition has been met. If it's white text, then you're in business. Set up the corresponding action - either drink a pot, attack something, activate an ability, etc.
4. In order to get more complex conditions available to me, I've been playing around with increasing cunning. For example, I can now get Morrigan to recognize when an ally's health gets low, and therefore chuck a heal his way, but I still can't seem to do anything complex like 'identify mob with lowest health' or 'identify mage' in order to direct attacks that way.
5. You can move the tactics order around, in order to sling tactics chains together. Just make sure that the most important actions are at the top of your list, or that the first step in a multi-step action is qued the highest.

I'm not sure if tactics has anything to do with character level or not, since I'm really just running around blindly trying things out, but if I had to hazzard a quess, I'd say so. It seems that you'll need to have 3 things going if you want to open up more complex conditions: Character level, Cunning score, and Combat Tactics slots opened.
Using the tactics effectively certainly wasn't the most initially intuitive system I've come across, However, I've been able to get fairly consistent results with basic tactics, mostly revolving around the individual character him/herself. For example, if my TWFwarrior gets surrounded, he'll fire off a whilwind. Likewise, Morrigan will fire off a Mind blast if surrounded by enemies. If Leleanna gets melee attacked, she'll switch from her bow to melee weapons (one tactic) and then turn on both dirty fighting (another one) and a disabling attack (yet another slot.)
I plan to continue messing around, but till then, I hope this helps someone out.

Cheers,
PC

Modifié par PureCanuck, 05 novembre 2009 - 07:39 .

[Trefecka]

I find that the AI actually does a decent job controlling healbot Wynne and Morrigan for single target purposes. (aka tank&spank'n elites, mopping up normal crowds). Only issue is that Wynne runs through mana fairly quickly but rejuvenate+ bit more care to ensure damage focus on shale (+forcefield) allows her to keep everyone up in most situations.



The only person I generally have to control is my PC (since picking the right units for disables is a tad unreliable with the AI) or when I'm setting up a combo/inferno+blizzard shower...that and cone of cold.



I have yet to figure out a way to make the AI use cone type spells effectively. They always a) pick the worst target or nail party memebers in the process (i.e. Morrigan freezing shale + wynne + me with a cone of cold leading to much pain). Anyone figure out decent settings for those type of spells?

[Seagloom]

I've been trying to make use of the tactics system as much as I can. So far it's hit or miss. It takes some experimentation to figure out what does and doesn't work. For major battles I take direct control though, and my PC has no AI set. Even with the issues I strongly prefer custom AI to the default list. That's horrible in my opinion. =P But if AI is frustrating then I see nothing wrong with constant micromanaging. It's what I'd do too if I wasn't trying to figure AI tactics out.

[sig570]

i kind of wish you could activate someones skill/spell without switching to them like bioware did in mass effect, but i am just working on getting used to using the AI tatics. one thing i have done for everyone is set the last condition to:



self less than 25% health drink potion

this seems to keep a lot of a people alive



but set your healer to

ally less than 50% health heal

[Duck and Cover]

almost always. But I will have to do more tweaking. I think too much of my cc triggers are overlapping and I'm wasting cc. I really don't want to have to manually cc, as I don't think that's very "fun", but I may have to. I may also have to adjust my targetting. Sometimes my people start attacking random targets. Very annoying. I want to focus fire.

I want to use the system. For one I want to replay the game using the other classes (I'm figuring at least 3 play throughs this game). So I don't want to handle my companion npc's more than I have to.

But it will definately take some time with the tactics system. But think of it this way. Spending time setting up the right triggers may save time down the line with less micromanagement.

[Mutant Dwarf]

3. If you see red text in your condition (the left side of the screen), then your character can't determine if the condition has been met. If it's white text, then you're in business. Set up the corresponding action - either drink a pot, attack something, activate an ability, etc.

I'm pretty sure this is incorrect. Red text on the condition just means you've set the target to be an enemy. It does not indicate that the character can't understand the condition.



Nothing I've seen indicates any character can't understand the conditions and all conditions are available at the start of the game. So far, my people have all been following their tactics faithfully - though not always how I'd want; when I set Wynn to Revive any party member, she just kept spamming the Revive spell even though everyone was alive. Too bad there's no way to automate that spell:(



I'm primarily using the default presets for tactics, and they've worked fine for me. I hate micromanagement, so they make me happy, even if the presets really aren't that great. They don't seem to take into account specialization talents at all, for example.

[Grengrad]

All my NPCs max their combat tactics skill first.

Then I have very long scripting for each of them that covers about any situation.

Morrigan is the most fun to script, because she is so effective if done right. There was a huge difference when I took her from her presets to what I thought was best.

The defaults are pretty good for Zevran, and Alistair only took a few minor tweaks, while Wynne and Morrigan needed a lot of work. I even have myself scripted, so if I do switch off to tweak something I don't miss a beat.

Also, I tweak anyone script with a final line of if health > 25% use a Health Pot, just in case someone misses a heal

[Duck and Cover]

all of my options for triggers were available as well at the start. Perhaps it is related to difficulty level? I'm playing on normal. I don't recall needing any amount of cunning.

[Sultan P]

I use them all the time, but I am getting increasingly frustrated at how retarded the NPCs seem to be if left to their own devices. Most annoying is that if I have a companion who has spent all of her points on archery, and I set her tactics to the archer setting, she will use her ranged weapon until the enemies force her to engage in melee combat. At this point she switches to her melee weapon, which would be fine if she wasn't too damn retarded to switch back to her ranged weapon when the battle is over, or at the start of the next battle.

[Trefecka]

Sultan P wrote...

I use them all the time, but I am getting increasingly frustrated at how retarded the NPCs seem to be if left to their own devices. Most annoying is that if I have a companion who has spent all of her points on archery, and I set her tactics to the archer setting, she will use her ranged weapon until the enemies force her to engage in melee combat. At this point she switches to her melee weapon, which would be fine if she wasn't too damn retarded to switch back to her ranged weapon when the battle is over, or at the start of the next battle.

One possible solution to your problem (haven't actually tried it since all my characters are mages/melee) would be to use a self:any->range weapon.  Hopefully that SHOULD have the AI switch to range weapon if they aren't engaged in melee.

[Hoot_3N4NY]

Yes, I use both tactics and micromanage my party.

[Aryma]

I do both myself.. I mostly find myself switching to a character that can heal while I order everyone to attack the same enemy. I found that my character can hold aggro longer without me controlling him so its easier to keep one player up than all of them.