15 réponses à ce sujet

[0rangekun]

 Just curious about this, as I've always had a wishy-washy understanding of things like spell progression and such.

Basically, what do you lose from not taking 10 levels of Cleric instead of Stormlord? I assume it has an effect on your ability to Turn Undead, but who cares about that? As far as I can tell, your spells' DCs remain unaffected, you have the same number of spells per day.

So what do you lose in exchange for a totally awesome weapon buff?

Modifié par 0rangekun, 20 mai 2013 - 07:44 .

[kamal_]

There are plenty of rp reasons not to (for instance, you're supposed to have to be a cleric of Talos to get this class in pnp), but from a power perspective, Stormlord is very powerful.

[manageri]

PRCs are usually more powerful than sticking with the core class, so yeah, RP reasons are pretty much the only reason not to pick many of em. Designing characters mostly by rp stuff can be more fun than just picking whatever's most powerful though.

[0rangekun]

Yes, well of course there are RP reasons. That's actually the only reason I've never really played the class (just fiddled with it offline when MotB came out). I've just had an itch to play SoZ and decided I'd like to stomp on everything with a cleric, hehe.

[Arkalezth]

The main reason not to take stormlord is if you have an animal companion. Multiclassed favoured souls may also prefer the damage reduction at level 20. And Turn Undead doesn't progress either, but it's usually better to hit stuff, rather than turn stuff.

Other than that, if you can spare the required feats, don't mind the restricted weapon selection, and are going to reach a decent enough level, there's no reason not to take it from a power perspective. Unless you're a pure caster, in which case there's not much point in taking it.

Modifié par Arkalezth, 20 mai 2013 - 08:25 .

[Dann-J]

You'll lose one level of spell progression (the first stormlord level). However what you'll gain will more than make up for that, especially if you're the sort of cleric who's more interested in harming than healing.

If you plan ahead and choose a god whose favoured weapon is the spear (or shuriken, if you really want a challenge), and take the War domain as a cleric (so you get Weapon Focus for free), you can take stormlord as early as level 6. If you also take the Earth cleric domain (granting you Toughness), then the only other feat you'll need is Great Fortitude, which you can take at character creation. Then you're just waiting to reach third-level spell casting.

I'm experimenting with a strongheart halfling stormlord at the moment, who worships Tymora (favoured weapon = shuriken). Stronghearts get an extra feat at character creation (like humans), and by taking the War and Earth domains I have one more feat than I need even at character creation to qualify for stormlord. Taking Zen Archery a few levels later means I can focus entirely on wisdom, with just 13 for dexterity to give me Pointblank Shot and Rapid Shot. Since shurikens are tiny weapons and don't benefit from strength bonus damage (something I've confirmed, despite what the character sheet says), I can ignore strength as well. The halfling Good Aim racial feat stacking with the stormlord weapon enhancements, combined with the additional electrical damage at stormlord level 2, actually makes shurikens viable weapons for once.

Modifié par DannJ, 20 mai 2013 - 11:03 .

[Arkalezth]

DannJ wrote...

You'll lose one level of spell progression (the first stormlord level).

No, it's full progression. You may be thinking of eldritch knight.

Shurikens are good if you're a monk, as they're compatible with Flurry. Otherwise, they're not better than darts or throwing axes (if you have the required proficiency). I find a pain in the ass to specialise in throwing weapons, though, as they run out very quickly.

[Dann-J]

Arkalezth wrote...
No, it's full progression. You may be thinking of eldritch knight.

That's even better then.

Most prestige classes with spell progression seem to lose at least one spellcasting level, sometimes more (EK, harpers, sacred fist, pale master, warpriest). I assumed it was the same for all of them. Now that I look at the NWN2 wiki, it seems that stormlord, doomguide and red wizard all have full spell progression.

[manageri]

Arkalezth wrote...
 I find a pain in the ass to specialise in throwing weapons, though, as they run out very quickly.

Change the stack size to 999 in the baseitems.2da

Edit: While you're at it, I'd do the same to potions, trap kits, and ammo.

Modifié par manageri, 21 mai 2013 - 05:12 .

[Arkalezth]

I probably wouldn't use many throwing weapons anyway, but it's an interesting idea. I might take a look at it, though I don't know if you can do that just by changing a number with a text editor, or if you need to do something else.

[manageri]

Arkalezth wrote...

I probably wouldn't use many throwing weapons anyway, but it's an interesting idea. I might take a look at it, though I don't know if you can do that just by changing a number with a text editor, or if you need to do something else.

You just have to tweak the number in the 2da file, couldn't be easier. Kaedrin's pack has a modified version of it so you'll already have it in your override. In addition to the thrown weapons running out thing, I also found it very helpful in fixing the bug where if you have let's say 5 stacks of 10 healing potions, the quickslot will show you have all 50, but will stop working when a stack runs out until you open your inventory, giving you the "you can't use that item" message. It also means you don't need to drag every individual trap kit into a quickslot anymore, which is a major pain in the ass. 999 sized ammo stacks also makes for a cleaner inventory, but isn't as awesome as the other stuff tbh.

[Dann-J]

In the case of a stormlord halfling, low strength means no pack-muling, so there's plenty of inventory space for (extremely light) shuriken stacks. Stormlords automatically make their chosen weapons magic, so you'll mostly only be buying cheap non-magical shurikens. Given that most of their damage will be electrical (and later, sonic), there's no reason to buy shurikens made of exotic materials (only available in SoZ anyway) to get through damage reduction either.

One thing I've noticed with Zen Archery and the Owl's Wisdom spell is that you have to unequip and re-equip your ranged weapon in order for the attack bonus to show up in the character sheet. It's a small price to pay for an additional +2 to attack though.

It's a pity you can't craft shurikens in the vanilla game (although Kaedrin has a mod for it), but hopefully most merchants who sell them have an infinite number of stacks. Or I can use my own return-on-hit item script.

[manageri]

DannJ wrote...

One thing I've noticed with Zen Archery and the Owl's Wisdom spell is that you have to unequip and re-equip your ranged weapon in order for the attack bonus to show up in the character sheet. It's a small price to pay for an additional +2 to attack though.

I'm pretty sure that's fixable by making Owl's (and other such spells) run the equip scripts when it's cast and again when it ends (so the bonus is also properly removed). I recall doing that once but I lost some stuff when I moved to a new computer so couldn't find it.

I think the core feats should already do that though, at least I only REMEMBER having to do that to get some of kaedrin's feats working without the weapon switch thing.

Modifié par manageri, 22 mai 2013 - 04:26 .

[Arkalezth]

The fact that something doesn't show up in the character sheet doesn't mean it isn't working. The character sheet lies often.

I don't have KPack installed, but I should be able to find and copy that 2da file if I finally try that "fix".

[Dann-J]

The feedback window also suggested I was missing the bonus. My cleric 5 / stormlord 2 test character had +11 to attack without Rapid Shot active. Owl's Wisdom adds +4 to wisdom, which with Zen Archery should have added another +2 to attack. However the rolls were still '(roll + 11) = ...' in the feedback window.

The Zen Archery feat might only add the bonuses to attack when equipping a ranged weapon.