34 réponses à ce sujet

[Dark_Ansem]

does someone have the full, complete ost of NWN (all the tracks in the "music" folder for instance) in high-quality? or knows how I could really upscale bitrate and khz of existing tracks?

[Dark_Ansem]

that or the NWN2 ost, which appears to be of higher bitrate.

[Tarot Redhand]

Dark_Ansem wrote...

does someone have the full, complete ost of NWN (all the tracks in the "music" folder for instance) in high-quality? or knows how I could really upscale bitrate and khz of existing tracks?

You do realise that just upscaling the bitrate will not make it sound any better, don't you. You will not get anything any better by doing so.

TR

[Dark_Ansem]

noooo why?

[PLUSH HYENA of DOOM]

I converted all the music tracks from NWN 1 and 2 directly from the music folders to an MP3 format and stuck them on CD years ago. I recall I ran them through a sound editor program but I think that was mostly just a convenient way of putting them on the discs. As far as I remember, I made no alterations to the bitrate (or anything else for that matter) and found the results entirely satisfactory. Reasonably sure I didn't even have to alter the master volume either.
Just listened to one again now and it sounds perfectly good, and that's coming through an excellent sound system with four speakers which, I imagine, would tend to show up any grotty imperfections pretty well.

I'm not saying you couldn't improve upon it, but to do so you'd need access to the original source files and very likely nobody has those except the composer/s (and maybe BioWare/Obsidian MIGHT still have copies). For the difference of quality involved, there's not much point doing anything more than a direct transfer.

[Dark_Ansem]

I understand, thanks a lot!

[Tarot Redhand]

To explain why up-scaling on its own wouldn't improve the sound. Think of a modern hd tv. Now you can watch ordinary tv programs on it but they look just like they would on a flat screen tv designed for such a purpose. You don't get any more detail. The same is true for dvd's. Now there is technology built into some blue ray players to intelligently up-scale the picture from a dvd. Basically this works by using complex maths to in effect guess the extra detail.

So what has to do with getting a better sound from a sound file? Well a bmu file is (afaik) just an mp3 file with some extra information added to it. As you are probably aware mp3 files use what is termed lossy compression - it is not a 100% accurate transcription of the original sound just a close enough approximation to listen to. So to get any more detail into the sound of a bmu file you would need technology to intelligently up-scale the sound, just like a dvd on a blue ray player. If such technology exists for sound files (as opposed to video) it is bound to be expensive as there is little call for it at present.

I hope this goes some way to explaining it for you (and hasn't confused the hell out you ()).

TR

[Dark_Ansem]

I understand, thanks a lot. wish Jeremy soule released his original files, like Grant Kirkhope did.

[PLUSH HYENA of DOOM]

Jeremy Soule's "DirectSong" site has official releases of his music for Dungeon Siege 2, Elder Scrolls, Skyrim, etc, but nothing for NWN.

You COULD try contacting him directly through the site and poking him with a very polite stick if you were REALLY desperate for that little extra edge of quality.
However, chances are he wouldn't be entirely free to distribute his own music given that it is created on contract to other parties, in this instance BioWare/Obsidian, who would almost certainly have to give their permission for any commercial usage of the music, however small scale.

[Dark_Ansem]

well, Grant Kirkhope did it, the author of BK/BT.
Does NWN feature the custom themes of the premium modules as well?

[PLUSH HYENA of DOOM]

I included the PM stuff, up to and including the 1.69 additions when I did the CDs I mentioned before. Whether there are any other little snippets lurking about in dark corners that got overlooked, I don't know. But I would imagine what's in the standard 1.69 music 2da represents pretty much everything there is.

[Dark_Ansem]

no I meant NWN2 does it include the themes of the various dungeons?

[PLUSH HYENA of DOOM]

Don't know... I'd have to go and dig.

[Malagant]

This all comes from a common misconception about audio compression and digital compression in general. The game file audio is already compressed (128k constant bitrate @ 44kHz Stereo). Taking the game audio, that's the best you're going to get out of them.

Without getting too much into into the technical aspects of it all, converting the audio to a higher bitrate will not result in a better file. In actuality, encoding a 128k file to a 192k, 240k or 320k bitrate file will still result in a lesser actual quality file (but at a larger size) because it is a lossy format by nature and there is still compression of a compressed file going on. This is why audio files tend to turn up with popping artifacts or an echo-like sound after a second compression; Information is still being tossed out with subsequent compressions.

Essentially, a .bmu is a .mp3 file with some tinkering done on the first few bits of the file and the extension changed. This tinkering may simply occur in the quasi-container aspect of the mp3 (the same aspect that allows id3 tags and covers to be saved within the file with no loss in the actual audio) thus a mp3 to bmu converter likely only modifies this contained information and changes the extension without any actual compression of the audio going on.

Take, for example, a jpg that's been saved at 90%. If you process that file over and over again, even at 100%, you'll notice the picture gradually becoming more and more hazy and block ridden with each save. This is because even at 100%, jpg is still a lossy format and lossy, by it's very nature, means something is being tossed out.

Your best bet is to either deal with renamed game files at 128k converted with mp3toBmu or find/encode lossless (WAV / Flac) files from the actual retail CD and use remaining 128k game files to fill out the playlist.

Modifié par Malagant, 25 mai 2013 - 04:44 .

[Dark_Ansem]

I'd rather be consistent with quality off the game files then.
has mp3tobmu been updated? is there a latest version?

[Tarot Redhand]

@Malagant I presume my explanation of 3 days ago was too simplified for you to realise that I said essentially the same thing (just in a very much less technical manner) as what you just did in your post of four hours ago. Thanks for your confirmation of the nature of BMU files though.

TR

Modifié par Tarot Redhand, 25 mai 2013 - 08:33 .

[s e n]

you can just change the file extension from bmu to mp3, no software needed

[Dark_Ansem]

mmmm that way the extra information is kept..

[Malagant]

@Tarot... Yes and no. Your example of watching a 480i (standard) TV/DVD on an HD set had no relation to what Plush and Ansem were getting into with higher bitrates and sound editing programs (or any aspect of compression). Your example fell more in line with playing a mp3 on an expensive stereo system vs through computer speakers or a car stereo, which is kind of a false analogy in the context of what was being discussed since there is only a change in the equipment as opposed to file content (even though you certainly were accurate).

They really are two different things. It had nothing to do with the dynamics of compression or, specifically, re-compression or why running the files through a sound editing program would do no good. Shrinking a dual-layer DVD9 to a single layer DVD5 (which would be second compression) then seeking to encode that DVD5 to an avi/mp4/mkv (a third compression) would have been a better example. It explains why encoding straight from the DVD9 to a media file nets better results than encoding from the DVD5 at the same encoding settings.

I just wanted to offer a bit of perspective within context to help understand more accurately why it wouldn't work, certainly not usurp your efforts.

Modifié par Malagant, 25 mai 2013 - 08:09 .

[PLUSH HYENA of DOOM]

This is in no way an argument, but I will just restress that I did point out that running them through a sound editing program would not raise the quality, merely that I used such a program to get the files from source to disc.

Just to assure everyone I'm not entirely cretinous.

Sen: Have you actually TRIED just changing the extension of MP3 files and sticking them in the ambient music folder? Or vice versa? I'd be interested on that point.
I recall trying something similar myself long ago and finding that it utterly failed to work. (Presumably why a passing genius created the MP3 to BMU utility in the first place). And - assuming it wasn't a technical flaw in the recorder somewhere along the way - I did try putting renamed BMUs direct to a CD with no actual format change and it definintely didn't work.

Tarot:- A sudden thought occurs to me... Are you actually suggesting that HDTV is in any way an "improvement" upon anything? What little I've seen of it is merely farcical.

Modifié par PLUSH HYENA of DOOM, 26 mai 2013 - 01:46 .

[Empyre65]

MP3s have varying bit rates (and other formating differences, I think), so I would guess that not just any MP3 would work in NWN if renamed to BMU, but I have renamed BMU files to MP3 and they play just fine in Windows Media Player. In fact, I just now minimized by browser and tried it, and it works. If you're burning it to a CD, don't you have to convert it to redbook audio, the CD standard format?

[Malagant]

Plush, my explanation was more for what Ansem was looking at than what you were referencing. Unless all the music gets released in lossless, and seeing as how he apparently wants a consistent quality across all the tracks, then the native 128k direct from the game files is the best he can get right now. I didn't mean to disparage how you went about transferring the tracks; I just wanted to relay an understanding of why a re-encode of the game files would actually yield a poorer quality no matter what bitrate was used if they were converted (not just had the extension changed, which is not technically a conversion).

Empyre, mp3 have varying bit rates if you encode them with a VBR. Otherwise you can encode them at a constant bitrate (CBR) of your choosing (as online music stores unfortunately frequently do). For the game to recognize the music, the standard NWN recognizes is the 128k CBR @ 44kHz Stereo I referenced in my first post. A VBR wont play well with the engine and I don't believe it will recognize any other bitrate or kHz.

I really wasn't trying to offend anyone, I just wanted to give Ansem a clearer understanding of why his initial question of "how [he] could really upscale bitrate and khz of existing tracks" wasn't possible.

[Dark_Ansem]

at least I made an interesting thread
on a side note, is the nwn/nwn2 music 16bit or 32 bit?

Modifié par Dark_Ansem, 26 mai 2013 - 07:49 .

[s e n]

thats 16 bit constant bitrate at 128

plush: i never had the need to try that but i always knew this thing since the times i started cooking things for nwn. maybe in the very early times windows players had issues reading that, if it is true there is some small difference in the format like you say, but now it works well. you dont even have to rename it, just assign the bmu extension to the player and enjoy

[Empyre65]

By varying bit rates, I meant that not all MP3s are the same. I didn't know that the bit rate could vary within an MP3 file. Cool! I like learning new things.
I guess that the MP3 to BMU converter makes sure that the format is the one NWN uses.