Aller au contenu

Photo

What's the most powerful Shepard?


  • Veuillez vous connecter pour répondre
22 réponses à ce sujet

#1
OmegaXiS

OmegaXiS
  • Members
  • 10 messages
 By this I mean if all six Shepards were to break the space/time continuum and fight to the death; who would win? No bonus powers.

My bet is on the infiltrator, the cloak would render any of the other Shepards powers useless; could easily disorientate them with a power and then line up a kill shot with the black widow. Even a Shepard in cover wouldn't be safe. And if not he could just sabotage the other Shep's weapons in cloak and wait for them to try and shoot; taking advantage of the backfire and once againg killing them.

In a tournament I'd say second place would go to the Vanguard. Nothing can stop their charge, and even if both powers are activated at the same time the Vanguard'll simply charge through it. Once it hits them it disorientates them, Nova, Heavy Melee, Death. Only an Infiltrators cloak could help in my opinion, depriving a Vanguard of a target.

I'm not really sure about 3rd place, but it's between the engineer and Sentinel I think. They can easily remove the other Sheps barriers and wreak havoc from there.

Adepts wouldn't fare too well in my opinion, most of their attacks wouldn't work due to the erect barriers... Only throw to disorientate. Warp is their saving grace here, that detonation would be epic.. Buuuuut the cooldown....

Your opinions? :D

Modifié par OmegaXiS, 21 mai 2013 - 10:57 .


#2
RedCaesar97

RedCaesar97
  • Members
  • 3 856 messages
Infiltrator + Vanguard are considered the strongest classes. Soldier is generally considered the worst, although the change to explosions in patch 1.04 puts them on more even ground since they can now detonate fire explosions pretty much at will now.

I would probably put the Vanguard on top as you could spam Charge + Nova (Half Blast) to exploit immunity frames. Add in Incendiary Ammo with explosive burst and shotgun (or Talon pistol or a good SMG) and the Vanguard is pretty much untouchable. I have seen people mention that they never needed to fire a shot with the Vanguard.

Infiltrator relies on Tactical Cloak but is not invisible for ever and will go on cooldown, but unlike the Vanguard cannot exploit Nova immunity frames to remain invincible. But Tactical Cloak + Sabotage + Incinerate + good weapon could wreak some incredible havoc.

Without bonus powers, Sentinel is essentially a more techier and slightly tankier version of the Adept. I think the Sentinel is slightly better than the Adept myself, although biotic spammers like the Sentinel and Adept tend to rely a lot on teammates, Liara and/or Javik in particular.

One-on-one, I think the Engineer is better than the Adept,. Not sure how I would rank it versus the Sentinel. One-on-one, I think the Engineer is better than the Sentinel since the Engineer has Sabotage.

* A note about Sabotage. It does not actually overheat guns (contrary to the power's description). It will cause the gun to backfire, but the gun can still shoot.

Until the changes to fire (and cryo) explosions in patch 1.04, the Soldier was definitely the weakest of the classes. Now it is much better. I have no idea how I would rank it now.

Also, not sure why you think Warp's cooldown is problematic. It has the same base cooldown as the Engineer's Sabotage, Overload, and Incinerate, which are all 8 seconds. Throw is very quick (4 seconds base I think?) so it is a very quick detonator, something the Engineer does not have. Adept also has Cluster grenades which are very powerful although limited.

#3
MadCat221

MadCat221
  • Members
  • 2 330 messages
Infiltrator would rely on the visual acuity of the players controlling all other Shepards besides Infiltrator. I can still spot the shimmer of cloaked ninja****es, though others might not.

#4
Jade Elf

Jade Elf
  • Members
  • 1 141 messages

OmegaXiS wrote...

 By this I mean if all six Shepards were to break the space/time continuum and fight to the death; who would win? 

In a tournament I'd say second place would go to the Vanguard.
Your opinions? :D


Probably Vanguard. But anyway, the reason I quoted what I did is the Citadel DLC. You can actually fight a mirror-match in the Armax Arena. Got to be the toughest fight in the game (for me at least), especially on Insanity...

#5
brad2240

brad2240
  • Members
  • 703 messages
In an one-on-one, I think Vanguard vs. Infiltrator would come down to who sees who first. Posted Image

They are the strongest classes in the game and would pretty easily beat the other classes, I think.

Third would be tough, because I think Engineer, Adept and Sentinel are all about equal. The Sentinel's durability may give him an edge, though.

RedCaesar97 wrote...

biotic spammers like the Sentinel and Adept tend to rely a lot on teammates, Liara and/or Javik in particular.


I guess I just do it differently from everybody else. I do use Liara as a Sentinel, but I never use her when I'm playing an Adept and never feel like I need her to fulfill the class' function. With Pull, Throw and Warp I feel like I spam plenty of biotics. Maybe I'm just weird...

#6
OmegaXiS

OmegaXiS
  • Members
  • 10 messages
The reason I favour the infiltrator is that once cloaked, the Vanguard has no real defense or offense they can exploit. An infiltrator can use a power and remain cloaked, cover offers little to no defense for an upgraded black widow... etc. Without a target for the vanguard to charge to; the fight will remain medium to long range, an infiltrators specialty.

#7
Ledgend1221

Ledgend1221
  • Members
  • 6 456 messages
Soldier.
Inferno ammo, CS, AR.

You can't beat what can control time.

#8
RedCaesar97

RedCaesar97
  • Members
  • 3 856 messages

brad2240 wrote...

RedCaesar97 wrote...

biotic spammers like the Sentinel and Adept tend to rely a lot on teammates, Liara and/or Javik in particular.


I guess I just do it differently from everybody else. I do use Liara as a Sentinel, but I never use her when I'm playing an Adept and never feel like I need her to fulfill the class' function. With Pull, Throw and Warp I feel like I spam plenty of biotics. Maybe I'm just weird...

Not weird at all. It is not like you are forced to use Liara (well except for three missions).

About half the Adept's biotics can detonate anything, so it is not like you are missing out on much by not taking Liara except for additional biotic explosions.

I do find that I rarely using Singularity or Pull if I take Liara, which basically turns my Adept into an Sentinel without Tech Armor.

#9
capn233

capn233
  • Members
  • 17 363 messages
Hard to say. All the hybrid classes are the best, with Vanguard probably the best combo of offense and defense.

#10
brad2240

brad2240
  • Members
  • 703 messages

RedCaesar97 wrote...

I do find that I rarely using Singularity or Pull if I take Liara, which basically turns my Adept into an Sentinel without Tech Armor.


This is basically it. I find the squadmate spot better used on somebody that does things Shep can't rather than copying things he already does with his own powers.

Actually on-topic: That's why I think Infiltator vs. Vanguard comes down to who spots who first. If Infiltrator has the initiative, he cloaks and snipes the VG to death. If its VG with initiative, he Charges, stuns and shotguns the Infiltrator. Extremely one-sided either way, and either class could effectively shut down the four other classes in a one-on-one situation.

A battle between the other classes would be less one-sided and more interesting, IMO.

#11
OmegaXiS

OmegaXiS
  • Members
  • 10 messages

brad2240 wrote...

RedCaesar97 wrote...

I do find that I rarely using Singularity or Pull if I take Liara, which basically turns my Adept into an Sentinel without Tech Armor.


This is basically it. I find the squadmate spot better used on somebody that does things Shep can't rather than copying things he already does with his own powers.

Actually on-topic: That's why I think Infiltator vs. Vanguard comes down to who spots who first. If Infiltrator has the initiative, he cloaks and snipes the VG to death. If its VG with initiative, he Charges, stuns and shotguns the Infiltrator. Extremely one-sided either way, and either class could effectively shut down the four other classes in a one-on-one situation.

A battle between the other classes would be less one-sided and more interesting, IMO.


Yep agree entirely, with those two out of the running... I think I favour the Engineers odds. Their control of the battlefield would be a major advantage. Pestering their opponent with combat drones and sentry turrets. 

#12
capn233

capn233
  • Members
  • 17 363 messages
Except that Combat Drone and Sentry Turret aren't any good. ;)

As for the mirror enemies, Engineer is dangerous because he has the Hurricane.

#13
Abraham_uk

Abraham_uk
  • Members
  • 11 713 messages
I find all the mirror enemies too similar.


I like the mirror vanguard best, because they force me to think and play differently. That charge and nova combo is truly the bane of my life.

Other classes. Hide in cover and roll out of the way when projectile is fired towards you. Gun them down before they get close.

With vanguards. Literally, don't let them see you. If they see you, you're in trouble. Big trouble!


For me, the mirror vanguard is the most challenging foe in the game!

Modifié par Abraham_uk, 22 mai 2013 - 09:14 .


#14
Locutus_of_BORG

Locutus_of_BORG
  • Members
  • 3 578 messages
The mirror Engineer was worse than the mirror Soldier, but it wasn't really worth a damn, imo, lol. For me, I stuck Wrex on her and pummelled her from afar with guns and tech combos.

From what I've seen, the Vanguard mirror is ridiculous; you have to exploit that one, I think.

#15
Nightdragon8

Nightdragon8
  • Members
  • 2 734 messages
any class with inceretate it got so bad that i was having flash backs of Ken/Ryu fireball duels..

#16
Gold Dragon

Gold Dragon
  • Members
  • 2 399 messages
None. Shepard (all six) would destroy them all.

The real question would be: would there even be a room left after all that carnage?


:wizard:

Modifié par A Golden Dragon, 23 mai 2013 - 06:27 .


#17
OmegaXiS

OmegaXiS
  • Members
  • 10 messages
LOOOL, the threads of reality would tear as the powerhouses collided. But I'm yet to play mirror match, starting again with my femshep from ME1. Are vanguards really that bad!?

#18
OmegaXiS

OmegaXiS
  • Members
  • 10 messages
LOOOL, the threads of reality would tear as the powerhouses collided. But I'm yet to play mirror match, starting again with my femshep from ME1. Are vanguards really that bad!?

#19
BronzTrooper

BronzTrooper
  • Members
  • 5 022 messages
IMO:

Vanguard
Infiltrator
Sentinel
Engineer
Adept
Soldier

Soldier wouldn't fare too well because, being a weapon DEPENDENT class, most of their powers are weapons based (ie: Disruptor Ammo, Incendiary ammo, Cryo Ammo, Adrenalin Rush) or merely disruptive (Concussive Shot). The only destructive power the Soldier has is Frag Grenade and that would require a target to stand still long enough for the grenade to reach them and detonate.

Adept would only do slightly better because they have Warp and Singularity. Warp could take down a Vanguard's barriers no problem but the Vanguard could just BC to regen shields. Adepts have a serious problem with shields due to being an all biotic class.

Engineer would do better cause they have pets to play with and they can Overload shields and barriers thanks to ME3's new power mechanics.

Sentinel would do better because of Tech Armor and having biotics as well as tech. Not to mention Lift Grenades.

Infiltrator would do much better because of Tac Cloak and having a SR. Other classes would have a very difficult time locating the Infiltrator, and even harder time at taking them down.

Vanguards specialize in CQC (Close-Quarters Combat) and can use that specialization to get out of the comfort zones of their enemies and into the realm in which they excel. BC would allow them to close the distance with distant enemies nearly instantly and stun-lock them. The kings of stun-locking (next to the Geth of course), all they have to do is BC--Nova--repeat (melee isn't entirely necessary though it helps) until they are the only ones standing.

Infiltrator's Cloak takes around a second to activate and Vanguard's BC is near-instant. So, once Vanguard has Infiltrator sighted, nothing can stop the inevitable. Plus, due to Vanguard's highly aggressive fighting style, Infiltrator wouldn't be able to sight up Vanguard long enough to hit 'em.

#20
RedCaesar97

RedCaesar97
  • Members
  • 3 856 messages

Gamer072196 wrote...

IMO:

Vanguard
Infiltrator
Sentinel
Engineer
Adept
Soldier


First, this actually a good post, but I do have some comments to add.

Soldier wouldn't fare too well because, being a weapon DEPENDENT class, most of their powers are weapons based (ie: Disruptor Ammo, Incendiary ammo, Cryo Ammo, Adrenalin Rush) or merely disruptive (Concussive Shot). The only destructive power the Soldier has is Frag Grenade and that would require a target to stand still long enough for the grenade to reach them and detonate.

Frag Grenade is the most destructive power: True.
Concussive Shot merely disruptive: False.

Concussive Shot is the Soldier's best combo detonator, Disruptor Ammo to prime, Concussive Shot to detonate. Incendiary Ammo to prime, Concussive Shot to detonate. And Concussive Shot has a very rapid cooldown, equivalent to the Adept's/Sentinel's Throw.

Infiltrator would do much better because of Tac Cloak and having a SR. Other classes would have a very difficult time locating the Infiltrator, and even harder time at taking them down.


Why assume that the Infiltrator would carry a sniper rifle? The Infiltrator may have bonuses specifically to sniper rifles, but they are not required to carry a sniper rifle. And this is something I want to address further.



First, since this is the battle of the Shepards, then each Shepard has a few game mechanics working in their favor, unlike the standard enemies in the game (including Mirror Match enemies), namely Shield gate and Health Gate
Shield gate: When Shepard's shields are destroyed, Shepard becomes immune to damage for a short time.
Health gate: When Shepard's health drops below 5%, Shepard becomes immune to damage for a short time.

So for an Infiltrator, one-shot sniper rifles like the Widow and Javelin are a non-starter for Shepard versus Shepard, since they will never break through shield gate or health gate and kill another Shepard in one shot. This means that an Infiltrator Shepard will need a rapid fire sniper rifle like the Indra or Raptor, or a multi-shot sniper rifle with a slow enough rate of fire to avoid the immunity durations, like the Valiant or Black Widow.

Interestingly enough perhaps, but the opposite can be true of the Soldier Shepard, which can use single-shot sniper rifles: Shoot > Adrenaline Rush to instantly reload > wait for the brief shield gate immunity duration to end > Shoot again > wait for the brief health gate immunity duration to end > Concussive Shot/Frag Grenades.

Also, shotguns which can "ignore" enemy shield gate also follow the same sniper rifle logic in that they cannot ignore Shepard's shield gate and health gate mechanics. So while a single Claymore shot can kill a Cerberus Centurian. it cannot kill Shepard even though it deals enough damage.

So in terms of weapons, you generally need either rapid-fire weapons or slow rate of fire weapons with a moderate amount of ammo if you plan to kill another Shepard with guns.

Also, Shepard can dodge projectile powers, which makes the Adept rather weak since all their powers are projectiles.
It is also not entirely clear whether Shepard can be frozen by Cryo Blast/Cryo Ammo, or lifted by biotics from another Shepard. Considering that Shepard no longer panics being set on fire in ME3, I think we can assume that Shepard will not panic to being set on fire by another Shepard. It is not clear whether Shepard can be stunned by Disruptor Ammo, or knocked down by the Neural Shock evolution of Overload.

#21
BronzTrooper

BronzTrooper
  • Members
  • 5 022 messages

RedCaesar97 wrote...

Infiltrator would do much better because of Tac Cloak and having a SR. Other classes would have a very difficult time locating the Infiltrator, and even harder time at taking them down.


Why assume that the Infiltrator would carry a sniper rifle? The Infiltrator may have bonuses specifically to sniper rifles, but they are not required to carry a sniper rifle.


I'm going by the standardized weapon setup for the various classes.  Soldiers would generally have AR's and SR's.  Adepts would have pistols and SMG's.  Engineers would have AR's and pistols.  Sentinels would have AR's and shotguns.  Vanguards would have shotguns and pistols.  And Infiltrators, SR's and pistols.  Infiltrators were originally supposed to have SR's and attack from long-range while the other classes attacked from short to medium-range (Soldiers could attack from long-range but mid-range seems to be their specialty).  Shotgun Infiltrators weren't really very popular before ME3 (mainly because the lack of the ability to dodge) and SR's were the norm.  Shotgun Infiltrators are popular nowadays, but BW meant for Infiltrator to be a sniper.  If it were up to me, I'd go shotgun Infiltrator.  But, the way that Infiltrator was set up, powers-wise, was to attack at range.  Not up-close and personal.

#22
brad2240

brad2240
  • Members
  • 703 messages

Gamer072196 wrote...

 Shotgun Infiltrators weren't really very popular before ME3 (mainly because the lack of the ability to dodge) and SR's were the norm.  Shotgun Infiltrators are popular nowadays, but BW meant for Infiltrator to be a sniper.  If it were up to me, I'd go shotgun Infiltrator.  But, the way that Infiltrator was set up, powers-wise, was to attack at range.  Not up-close and personal.


I thought shotgun Infiltrators were very popular in ME2. There was a good bit of talk around here about them and when I played one I found it to be a very good class. Even considering I didn't like shotguns in ME2. Posted Image

I think Infiltrators are flexible enough to not be pigeon-holed as snipers in either ME2 or 3. Given the shieldgate mechanics in 3, I'd even say that shotguns are better for them than sniper rifles in most cases. Having said that, I do tend to play the class as a sniper, with a preference for multi-shot rifles, because I almost never use sniper rifles on my other classes. Helps to differentiate the play-throughs.  

#23
RedCaesar97

RedCaesar97
  • Members
  • 3 856 messages

Gamer072196 wrote...
I'm going by the standardized weapon setup for the various classes.  Soldiers would generally have AR's and SR's.  Adepts would have pistols and SMG's.  Engineers would have AR's and pistols.  Sentinels would have AR's and shotguns.  Vanguards would have shotguns and pistols.  And Infiltrators, SR's and pistols.  


That seems fair.

Infiltrators were originally supposed to have SR's and attack from long-range while the other classes attacked from short to medium-range (Soldiers could attack from long-range but mid-range seems to be their specialty).  Shotgun Infiltrators weren't really very popular before ME3 (mainly because the lack of the ability to dodge) and SR's were the norm.  Shotgun Infiltrators are popular nowadays, but BW meant for Infiltrator to be a sniper.  If it were up to me, I'd go shotgun Infiltrator.  But, the way that Infiltrator was set up, powers-wise, was to attack at range.  Not up-close and personal.


Depends what you mean by "originally".
In ME1, Infiltrator had pistols and sniper rifle training by default, but you had to unlock the sniper rifle talent by first putting points into pistols.
In ME2, Infiltrators had sniper rifles, pistols, and SMGs.
In ME3, Infilrators begin Mars with pistols and sniper rifles, but technically start the game with a pistol, and soon after an assault rifle. All classes can use all weapons, although an Infiltrator has the most natural talents that support sniper rifles.

I will agree that Infiltrators are set up to be snipers, but I will say that they are just as suited to use any weapon due to their particular power set.

Shotgun Infiltrators were fairly popular--at least on the BSN forums--in ME2. I also ran with shotguns in ME1 on the Infiltrator as well.