108 réponses à ce sujet

[Freckles04]

Hehe, it cracks me up that this thread got necro'd...

[frostajulie]

I thought they were good friends up until Gregoir made the comment about it being too painfu; to hope for survivors then when you say you will go anyway he says he will only accept the first enchanter as proof and the hopeful tone in his voice. That was the moment I became suspicious that there was more to their relationship

[The Almighty Ali]

Considering they've both been working together closely for what probably have been years, even if they are somewhat against eachother, I do think they've developed a friendship.

I doubt it's more then that however.

[Riona45]

No, I never saw this.  That doesn't mean it couldn't possibly be there, but from what I can tell any two characters who are at least a bit friendly (or hostile...or even occasionally indifferent to each other) will wind up being shipped.

Also, some of the "evidence" is a bit off:

Freckles04 wrote...

- In the Mage Origin, you can have a discussion with Irving where he refers to Greagoir as "my colleague", then quickly corrects himself to say "our colleague".

As mentioned before, the reason he corrects himself is due to the PC's new status as a "mage" rather than a mere "apprentice."  He specifically does this because he wants the PC to respect Greagoir as an associate (the gist of his response there is "act like the adult you're supposed to be now").

- When Jowan escapes, the first thing Irving asks when he comes to is if Greagoir is all right.

Actually, he first asks the PC if they are all right, then he asks Greagoir if he's all right.

- When you return to the Tower, Greagoir goes on about how it's "too painful" to hope for survivors.

You have to be in love with someone to hope they won't die?  I'm not really a fan of Greagoir but from what I can tell he isn't completely heartless.

- When you rescue Irving and return to Greagoir, Greagoir seems to be nearly beside himself that Irving's all right.

He's happy, but "beside himself?"  That strikes me as a bit of an overstatement, to be honest.  And again, see above--you don't have to be in love with someone to be glad they aren't dead.

Modifié par Riona45, 17 octobre 2010 - 02:28 .

[QueenOfCrows]

I didn't really get it on my first Dalish PT, but during my first run of the mage origin I did find myself going "hmm" a lot. Returning to complete Broken Circle pretty much cemented it for me. You don't have to be in love with someone to be glad they're not dead or hope for their survival, but Greagoir's phrasing and the fact that he let himself show distress publicly did strike me as out of character for a normally strict guy who's "just worried about a friend."

The ending you get when the Circle falls also struck me as a little odd. It seemed like a definite choice that Greagoir made, based on what was lost there. On the whole, the pair of them did seem to have a very interesting patina of emotional dependency and involvement, acquired over the years.

I see it, myself. YMMV, but that's true for a lot in the series.

(Though it does make me wonder the REAL reason why those storerooms are locked, and they have the only keys... Heh.)

[Riona45]

QueenOfCrows wrote...
You don't have to be in love with someone to be glad they're not dead or hope for their survival, but Greagoir's phrasing and the fact that he let himself show distress publicly did strike me as out of character for a normally strict guy who's "just worried about a friend."

It's different from normal precisely because it's supposed to be an unusually horrible situation. 

The ending you get when the Circle falls also struck me as a little odd.

Actually, the ending you get in the Circle falls is proof against the idea that he has "special feelings" for Irving.  After being informed that all the mages are dead, he says nothing about Irving, he just proclaims "We will form the Circle anew, upon the remains of the old."  And of course, if Irving is alive but you decide to agree with Cullen, Greagoir certainly doesn't go out on a limb to disagree with you.

Just to clarify, I'm not "against" people shipping these characters, I'm just pointing out that the supposed evidence for it within the game isn't as solid as some seem to think.

Modifié par Riona45, 17 octobre 2010 - 03:15 .

[QueenOfCrows]

Riona45 wrote...

QueenOfCrows wrote...
You don't have to be in love with someone to be glad they're not dead or hope for their survival, but Greagoir's phrasing and the fact that he let himself show distress publicly did strike me as out of character for a normally strict guy who's "just worried about a friend."

It's different from normal precisely because it's supposed to be an unusually horrible situation. 

The ending you get when the Circle falls also struck me as a little odd.

Actually, the ending you get in the Circle falls is proof against the idea that he has "special feelings" for Irving.  After being informed that all the mages are dead, he says nothing about Irving, he just proclaims "We will form the Circle anew, upon the remains of the old."  And of course, if Irving is alive but you decide to agree with Cullen, Greagoir certainly doesn't go out on a limb to disagree with you.

Just to clarify, I'm not "against" people shipping these characters, I'm just pointing out that the supposed evidence for it within the game isn't as solid as some seem to think.

I'm not disputing the fact that it's an unusually horrible situation. But I really don't see "upon the remains of the old" as swinging the argument one way or the other. To me it comes across as "this is what's going to happen because we have to move on, we don't have time to mourn right now." I would have expected him to stick around and oversee it long-term, though, rather than refuse medical aid and die (from something that sounds like it was treatable). Hence why that ending seems a bit "suspicious" to me, if you will.

So, your "proof" isn't my "proof," and vice versa; I'm not going to say you're wrong and I'm right, just that I see things in a different way. Bromancers gonna bromance, haters gonna hate, etc. I'll be over in this corner, drawing wrinkly pr0n or something, since I'm still one of the ones who sees/likes the "old couple with 'special feelings" dynamic.

Though I like the romance-free close friendship angle, too. Seems to have an odd PT by PT variance in my games, sometimes, though it does seem to be at least a bit consistent with whether or not it was the mage origin. Not 100%, though.

[Riona45]

So, your "proof" isn't my "proof," and vice versa; I'm not going to say you're wrong and I'm right, just that I see things in a different way.

It has nothing to do with wrong or right, I'm just pointing out that it's ambiguous. As I said before, I don't care what people want to write about in fanfiction, etc.  Just because I don't see what you see doesn't mean I'm against you seeing it.

Modifié par Riona45, 17 octobre 2010 - 04:15 .

[QueenOfCrows]

Riona45 wrote...

So, your "proof" isn't my "proof," and vice versa; I'm not going to say you're wrong and I'm right, just that I see things in a different way.

It has nothing to do with wrong or right, I'm just pointing out that it's ambiguous.  If you don't really care whether or not the game has strong support for the interpretation that you like, why argue about it?  As I said before, I don't care what people want to write about in fanfiction, etc.

Just saying people are going to see strong support where they want to see it, whether for or against, so I'm agreeing with you on the ambiguity umbrella more than anything. 'S cool.