4196 réponses à ce sujet

[redBadger14]

Really the only bad thing MS needs to reverse is PR, and honestly the damage is likely already done.

And hm, even with those PC's I'm not concerned about how XB1 will perform. I'm sure they'll get it right by launch.

[Salamander Soup]

J. Reezy wrote...

Salamander Soup wrote...

You don't buy games period. You rent them at full price.

Maybe you do. I don't. I own my games.

I meant Xbone games.

[Lenimph]

redBadger14 wrote...

The PS4 demos were doing the EXACT same thing. This is nothing new, at all. It's not that MS or Sony have no faith in their product, its that they want to showcase their games on the most powerful tool possible, hence why PC's are there.

You're wrong though.  It does mean MS has no faith in their product, and that product's name is Windows 8 

[jesuno]

Lenimph wrote...

redBadger14 wrote...

The PS4 demos were doing the EXACT same thing. This is nothing new, at all. It's not that MS or Sony have no faith in their product, its that they want to showcase their games on the most powerful tool possible, hence why PC's are there.

You're wrong though.  It does mean MS has no faith in their product, and that product's name is Windows 8 

We've been through that. Sony was running the videos from the reveal off of high end PCs.

[billy the squid]

redBadger14 wrote...

J. Reezy wrote...

Skelter192 wrote...

redBadger14 wrote...
The PS4 demos were doing the EXACT same thing. This is nothing new, at all. It's not that MS or Sony have no faith in their product, its that they want to showcase their games on the most powerful tool possible, hence why PC's are there.

Is that true? Killzone looked impressive and if that was running on a PS4 well awesome. If not then I guess bullshots is all we've been shown.

It's possible but since we don't have picture evidence like with Microsoft I'm giving Sony's E3 showings the benefit of the doubt for now.

That's the problem, though. The fact someone is deliberately taking photo evidence of MS doing something that is industry-standard at E3 (almost) is proof enough that people are just trying to drum up reasons to hate MS, no matter how idiotic. 

I can get the DRM thing, which even then is seeming more and more like Steam the more I research it, but PC demos at E3? C'mon. Sony could sh*t ponies and rainbows and consumers would toss their money all over them XD

Battlefield 3 for instance was demoed solely on PC during E3 and all the other events DICE went to. When it released, it was outstanding on PC, and was surprisingly great on 360 (and PS3), considering the huge limitations of the consoles.

Not really the point. A 700 GTX GPU is waaaaay more powerful than anything the PS4 and X1 have, letting the system simply brute force it's way through issues, that's not an option in the actual console.

The point being that the specs of the PC they're using are nowhere close to that of the X1. PS4 there's no indication that they weren't using similar PC specs to the it, or the dev kit. I think the devs have already said they were all using the dev kit. Jonathan Blow noted that they have more ram, but the CPU/ GPU is the same

X1, they've been rather quiet on the topic. On top of that you've got the eSRAM issues, bringing down the clock due to overheat etc. It's just a ****ing train wreck frankly. 

Modifié par billy the squid, 17 juin 2013 - 04:19 .

[billy the squid]

jesuno wrote...

Lenimph wrote...

redBadger14 wrote...

The PS4 demos were doing the EXACT same thing. This is nothing new, at all. It's not that MS or Sony have no faith in their product, its that they want to showcase their games on the most powerful tool possible, hence why PC's are there.

You're wrong though.  It does mean MS has no faith in their product, and that product's name is Windows 8 

We've been through that. Sony was running the videos from the reveal off of high end PCs.

Did they? Because inFamous dev and The Witness dev have said they were running on a PS4 dev kit. So do you mean the actual game demos?

[jesuno]

billy the squid wrote...

jesuno wrote...

Lenimph wrote...

redBadger14 wrote...

The PS4 demos were doing the EXACT same thing. This is nothing new, at all. It's not that MS or Sony have no faith in their product, its that they want to showcase their games on the most powerful tool possible, hence why PC's are there.

You're wrong though.  It does mean MS has no faith in their product, and that product's name is Windows 8 

We've been through that. Sony was running the videos from the reveal off of high end PCs.

Did they? Because inFamous dev and The Witness dev have said they were running on a PS4 dev kit. So do you mean the actual game demos?

Not at E3, at the initial reveal a month ago.

[redBadger14]

billy the squid wrote...

redBadger14 wrote...

J. Reezy wrote...

Skelter192 wrote...

redBadger14 wrote...
The PS4 demos were doing the EXACT same thing. This is nothing new, at all. It's not that MS or Sony have no faith in their product, its that they want to showcase their games on the most powerful tool possible, hence why PC's are there.

Is that true? Killzone looked impressive and if that was running on a PS4 well awesome. If not then I guess bullshots is all we've been shown.

It's possible but since we don't have picture evidence like with Microsoft I'm giving Sony's E3 showings the benefit of the doubt for now.

That's the problem, though. The fact someone is deliberately taking photo evidence of MS doing something that is industry-standard at E3 (almost) is proof enough that people are just trying to drum up reasons to hate MS, no matter how idiotic. 

I can get the DRM thing, which even then is seeming more and more like Steam the more I research it, but PC demos at E3? C'mon. Sony could sh*t ponies and rainbows and consumers would toss their money all over them XD

Battlefield 3 for instance was demoed solely on PC during E3 and all the other events DICE went to. When it released, it was outstanding on PC, and was surprisingly great on 360 (and PS3), considering the huge limitations of the consoles.

Not really the point. A 700 GTX GPU is waaaaay more powerful than anything the PS4 and X1 have, letting the system simply brute force it's way through issues, that's not an option in the actual console.

The point being that the specs of the PC they're using are nowhere close to that of the X1. PS4 there's no indication that they weren't using similar PC specs to the it, or the dev kit. I think the devs have already said they were all using the dev kit. Jonathan Blow noted that they have more ram, but the CPU/ GPU

X1, they've been rather quiet on the topic. On top of that you've got the eSRAM issues, bringing down the clock due to overheat etc. It's just a ****ing train wreck frankly. 

Not really a train wreck. Downclocking will probably result in no noticeable performance difference. Not from what I am hearing from more experienced computer techies than me, at least

[Cyonan]

billy the squid wrote...

redBadger14 wrote...

J. Reezy wrote...

Skelter192 wrote...

redBadger14 wrote...
The PS4 demos were doing the EXACT same thing. This is nothing new, at all. It's not that MS or Sony have no faith in their product, its that they want to showcase their games on the most powerful tool possible, hence why PC's are there.

Is that true? Killzone looked impressive and if that was running on a PS4 well awesome. If not then I guess bullshots is all we've been shown.

It's possible but since we don't have picture evidence like with Microsoft I'm giving Sony's E3 showings the benefit of the doubt for now.

That's the problem, though. The fact someone is deliberately taking photo evidence of MS doing something that is industry-standard at E3 (almost) is proof enough that people are just trying to drum up reasons to hate MS, no matter how idiotic. 

I can get the DRM thing, which even then is seeming more and more like Steam the more I research it, but PC demos at E3? C'mon. Sony could sh*t ponies and rainbows and consumers would toss their money all over them XD

Battlefield 3 for instance was demoed solely on PC during E3 and all the other events DICE went to. When it released, it was outstanding on PC, and was surprisingly great on 360 (and PS3), considering the huge limitations of the consoles.

Not really the point. A 700 GTX GPU is waaaaay more powerful than anything the PS4 and X1 have, letting the system simply brute force it's way through issues, that's not an option in the actual console.

The point being that the specs of the PC they're using are nowhere close to that of the X1. PS4 there's no indication that they weren't using similar PC specs to the it, or the dev kit. I think the devs have already said they were all using the dev kit. Jonathan Blow noted that they have more ram, but the CPU/ GPU is the same

X1, they've been rather quiet on the topic. On top of that you've got the eSRAM issues, bringing down the clock due to overheat etc. It's just a ****ing train wreck frankly. 

I think you missed the point there, which is that people are going out of their way to hate on Microsoft for doing industry standard tactics.

That you have an issue with the tactic itself is not relevant to that point.

[jesuno]

redBadger14 wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

redBadger14 wrote...

J. Reezy wrote...

Skelter192 wrote...

redBadger14 wrote...
The PS4 demos were doing the EXACT same thing. This is nothing new, at all. It's not that MS or Sony have no faith in their product, its that they want to showcase their games on the most powerful tool possible, hence why PC's are there.

Is that true? Killzone looked impressive and if that was running on a PS4 well awesome. If not then I guess bullshots is all we've been shown.

It's possible but since we don't have picture evidence like with Microsoft I'm giving Sony's E3 showings the benefit of the doubt for now.

That's the problem, though. The fact someone is deliberately taking photo evidence of MS doing something that is industry-standard at E3 (almost) is proof enough that people are just trying to drum up reasons to hate MS, no matter how idiotic. 

I can get the DRM thing, which even then is seeming more and more like Steam the more I research it, but PC demos at E3? C'mon. Sony could sh*t ponies and rainbows and consumers would toss their money all over them XD

Battlefield 3 for instance was demoed solely on PC during E3 and all the other events DICE went to. When it released, it was outstanding on PC, and was surprisingly great on 360 (and PS3), considering the huge limitations of the consoles.

Not really the point. A 700 GTX GPU is waaaaay more powerful than anything the PS4 and X1 have, letting the system simply brute force it's way through issues, that's not an option in the actual console.

The point being that the specs of the PC they're using are nowhere close to that of the X1. PS4 there's no indication that they weren't using similar PC specs to the it, or the dev kit. I think the devs have already said they were all using the dev kit. Jonathan Blow noted that they have more ram, but the CPU/ GPU

X1, they've been rather quiet on the topic. On top of that you've got the eSRAM issues, bringing down the clock due to overheat etc. It's just a ****ing train wreck frankly. 

Not really a train wreck. Downclocking will probably result in no noticeable performance difference. Not from what I am hearing from more experienced computer techies than me, at least

Not a train wreck now, but you know Sony will jump on that like a group of hungry hyenas. Cheaper and more powerful? Sony's marketing team is really a lucky bunch, they already have very little come up with, yet they are looking like geniuses.

[jesuno]

Cyonan wrote...

I think you missed the point there, which is that people are going out of their way to hate on Microsoft for doing industry standard tactics.

That you have an issue with the tactic itself is not relevant to that point.

People would not be making a big deal about it if Peter Moore hadn't stated that MS was running their stuff off of XB1 kits.

[redBadger14]

Lenimph wrote...

redBadger14 wrote...

The PS4 demos were doing the EXACT same thing. This is nothing new, at all. It's not that MS or Sony have no faith in their product, its that they want to showcase their games on the most powerful tool possible, hence why PC's are there.

You're wrong though.  It does mean MS has no faith in their product, and that product's name is Windows 8 

No, it doesn't. 

Why bother running games, at a huge convention, on a console that they're currently having heat issues with? It would be more stupid of Microsoft to run games on the XB1 and have loads of issues that they haven't even solved yet. 

Besides which, even if the PC's are running at high specs, the games are still being developed to run fine on the Xbox One. There's no confidence issue, which silly people seem to be drumming up. It's purely a technical issue.

[AshedMan]

Hasn't it been a running joke for years now about how the console game displays are all run on PCs?

[billy the squid]

Cyonan wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

redBadger14 wrote...

J. Reezy wrote...

Skelter192 wrote...

redBadger14 wrote...
The PS4 demos were doing the EXACT same thing. This is nothing new, at all. It's not that MS or Sony have no faith in their product, its that they want to showcase their games on the most powerful tool possible, hence why PC's are there.

Is that true? Killzone looked impressive and if that was running on a PS4 well awesome. If not then I guess bullshots is all we've been shown.

It's possible but since we don't have picture evidence like with Microsoft I'm giving Sony's E3 showings the benefit of the doubt for now.

That's the problem, though. The fact someone is deliberately taking photo evidence of MS doing something that is industry-standard at E3 (almost) is proof enough that people are just trying to drum up reasons to hate MS, no matter how idiotic. 

I can get the DRM thing, which even then is seeming more and more like Steam the more I research it, but PC demos at E3? C'mon. Sony could sh*t ponies and rainbows and consumers would toss their money all over them XD

Battlefield 3 for instance was demoed solely on PC during E3 and all the other events DICE went to. When it released, it was outstanding on PC, and was surprisingly great on 360 (and PS3), considering the huge limitations of the consoles.

Not really the point. A 700 GTX GPU is waaaaay more powerful than anything the PS4 and X1 have, letting the system simply brute force it's way through issues, that's not an option in the actual console.

The point being that the specs of the PC they're using are nowhere close to that of the X1. PS4 there's no indication that they weren't using similar PC specs to the it, or the dev kit. I think the devs have already said they were all using the dev kit. Jonathan Blow noted that they have more ram, but the CPU/ GPU is the same

X1, they've been rather quiet on the topic. On top of that you've got the eSRAM issues, bringing down the clock due to overheat etc. It's just a ****ing train wreck frankly. 

I think you missed the point there, which is that people are going out of their way to hate on Microsoft for doing industry standard tactics.

That you have an issue with the tactic itself is not relevant to that point.

MS has so far managed to antagonise the gaming community to such a degree that now most people are indeed, sticking a proverbial knife in and giving it a twist.

It's not the tactic though is it. It's the difference in hardware. Between what is available, and what they used to generate that performance, smoke and mirrors maybe, but it's skirting the line of fraudulent misrep if they're shoving in a GTX 700 series GPU.

If they want to run it on a stable system, ie: a PC with similar specs as the dev kit isn't finalised yet, then fair enough, not great, but it beats the game crashing every 5 minutes, it's understandable and no one would have an issue.

The difference being that it is not industry standard, at least according to the devs who were running their games on the PS4 dev kit. This is the whole issue, what has become industry standard has become so maligned by this point that PS4 simply highlighted just how far the rot has set in within the console industry. It's sad that Sony, by sitting in it's arse was of greater benefit, by simply illustrating what a crap direction things seem to be moving towards.

Modifié par billy the squid, 17 juin 2013 - 04:57 .

[billy the squid]

redBadger14 wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

redBadger14 wrote...

J. Reezy wrote...

Skelter192 wrote...

redBadger14 wrote...
The PS4 demos were doing the EXACT same thing. This is nothing new, at all. It's not that MS or Sony have no faith in their product, its that they want to showcase their games on the most powerful tool possible, hence why PC's are there.

Is that true? Killzone looked impressive and if that was running on a PS4 well awesome. If not then I guess bullshots is all we've been shown.

It's possible but since we don't have picture evidence like with Microsoft I'm giving Sony's E3 showings the benefit of the doubt for now.

That's the problem, though. The fact someone is deliberately taking photo evidence of MS doing something that is industry-standard at E3 (almost) is proof enough that people are just trying to drum up reasons to hate MS, no matter how idiotic. 

I can get the DRM thing, which even then is seeming more and more like Steam the more I research it, but PC demos at E3? C'mon. Sony could sh*t ponies and rainbows and consumers would toss their money all over them XD

Battlefield 3 for instance was demoed solely on PC during E3 and all the other events DICE went to. When it released, it was outstanding on PC, and was surprisingly great on 360 (and PS3), considering the huge limitations of the consoles.

Not really the point. A 700 GTX GPU is waaaaay more powerful than anything the PS4 and X1 have, letting the system simply brute force it's way through issues, that's not an option in the actual console.

The point being that the specs of the PC they're using are nowhere close to that of the X1. PS4 there's no indication that they weren't using similar PC specs to the it, or the dev kit. I think the devs have already said they were all using the dev kit. Jonathan Blow noted that they have more ram, but the CPU/ GPU

X1, they've been rather quiet on the topic. On top of that you've got the eSRAM issues, bringing down the clock due to overheat etc. It's just a ****ing train wreck frankly. 

Not really a train wreck. Downclocking will probably result in no noticeable performance difference. Not from what I am hearing from more experienced computer techies than me, at least

Their PR and marketing is an utter disaster, and their laging tech and universal entertainment approach is simply bizzare. While the tech issues may not be a huge problem now, considering the info stating that the PS4's hardware is already 33/50% more powerful, when X1 has to lower the clock speed further it raises question over why would I pay £432 for sub standard hardware? Especially when the bane of consoles is the stagnation of their hardware.

And considering their eSRAM was, according to them, supposed to compensate for the lower RAM bandwidth in DDR3 it doesn't bode well that 5 months from release they can't even get that working correctly.

[redBadger14]

I think it should also be noted that "PS4 dev kits" are basically PC's running at similar or slightly better specs. It's likely that very few PS4 games were being played on an actual PS4.

That said, Microsoft's PR has indeed been horrid. It's too bad they couldn't just adhere more to the PR document that was leaked, they would not be in the massive hole they're in now.

I won't place the link to the PR leak here, not sure if the BSN Rules will allow for that. A simple Google search and you guys will find it just easily, regardless.

What has me hopeful from the leak is that it looks like Microsoft is going to implement digital rentals to XB1, possibly by working with GameFly. Not sure if physical rentals would be there too though.

As for the technical issues, I'll just have to have faith that the engineers can work it out.

Modifié par redBadger14, 17 juin 2013 - 05:12 .

[Jerrybnsn]

I talked to a GameStop employee (while preordering my PS4) and asked him which consol was being preordered more, and he said surprisingly the Xbox by a 3 to 1 margin. Now this is just my little niche in the world of rural Michigan, but it seems that previous Xbox owners just will stick with what they are use to and won't switch no matter if the PS4 is cheaper and has no restrictions like Xbox. Go figure.

[Cyonan]

billy the squid wrote...
MS has so far managed to rile up the gaming community to such a degree that now most people are indeed, sticking a proverbial knife in and giving it a twist.

It's not the tactic though is it. It's the difference in hardware. Between what is available, and what they used to generate that performance, smoke and mirrors maybe, but it's skirting the line of fraudulent misrep if they're shoving in a GTX 700 series GPU.

If they want to run it on a stable system, ie: a PC with similar specs as the dev kit isn't finalised yet, then fair enough, not great, but it beats the game crashing every 5 minutes, it's understandable and no one would have an issue.

The difference being that it is not industry standard, at least according to the devs who were running their games on the PS4 dev kit. This is the whole issue, what has become industry standard has become so maligned by this point that PS4 simply highlighted just how far the rot has set in within the console industry. It's sad that Sony, by sitting in it's arse was of greater benefit, by simply illustrating what a crap direction things seem to be moving towards.

Most people didn't have an issue with this(or weren't being very vocal about it from what I can see) or just didn't know it was going on until Microsoft got caught doing it. I'd bet that if there wasn't all the hate around the X1 that the majority of people would not be angry about it.

There's a thing about it making a product look better than it really is, but that's a whole other conversation and gamers aren't exactly known for being rational about a company that we're currently hating on. We just keep on hating on them and finding reasons to hate them more.

In a month most of the internet will probably have forgotten about it anyway and next E3 we can do it all over again.

[jesuno]

redBadger14 wrote...

I think it should also be noted that "PS4 dev kits" are basically PC's running at similar or slightly better specs. It's likely that very few PS4 games were being played on an actual PS4.

That said, Microsoft's PR has indeed been horrid. It's too bad they couldn't just adhere more to the PR document that was leaked, they would not be in the massive hole they're in now.

I won't place the link to the PR leak here, not sure if the BSN Rules will allow for that. A simple Google search and you guys will find it just easily, regardless.

What has me hopeful from the leak is that it looks like Microsoft is going to implement digital rentals to XB1, possibly by working with GameFly. Not sure if physical rentals would be there too though.

As for the technical issues, I'll just have to have faith that the engineers can work it out.

From what the document I found says, this only places MS's PR in a much worse light. There is nothing detailing the always online function, 24 hour check in, used game policies, and so on, questions MS should have known that even the most basic guy on the floor in charge of demoing a game would have been asked. But these people are human, and I am almost sure several people lost their jobs this week, but I hope they are given a second chance.

[redBadger14]

jesuno wrote...

redBadger14 wrote...

I think it should also be noted that "PS4 dev kits" are basically PC's running at similar or slightly better specs. It's likely that very few PS4 games were being played on an actual PS4.

That said, Microsoft's PR has indeed been horrid. It's too bad they couldn't just adhere more to the PR document that was leaked, they would not be in the massive hole they're in now.

I won't place the link to the PR leak here, not sure if the BSN Rules will allow for that. A simple Google search and you guys will find it just easily, regardless.

What has me hopeful from the leak is that it looks like Microsoft is going to implement digital rentals to XB1, possibly by working with GameFly. Not sure if physical rentals would be there too though.

As for the technical issues, I'll just have to have faith that the engineers can work it out.

From what the document I found says, this only places MS's PR in a much worse light. There is nothing detailing the always online function, 24 hour check in, used game policies, and so on, questions MS should have known that even the most basic guy on the floor in charge of demoing a game would have been asked. But these people are human, and I am almost sure several people lost their jobs this week, but I hope they are given a second chance.

I thought it did highlight the 24-hour check in? I don't exactly recall, but I don't think if it isn't there it wouldn't be much of an issue. They've said multiple times that used games aren't blocked, there will be a 24-hour check in (to prevent unlimited illegal distribution of games). Hell the check-in itself is something like under 10 kilobytes, something even the poor internet consumers will be able to easily download.

What Microsoft really needs to do is bring more clarity to the message, and get the ultimate truths about their policies out there. All the outrage is due to very unclear messaging, bad PR, and so forth. Hell have one good panel at PAX for instance, and put everything on the table.

An internet connection required once every 24 hours (for a KB file) is nothing anyone should be getting angry at. The reason it's there is to prevent exploitation of what Microsoft plans to do with XB1 games. You can buy a disc, install it on the XB1, have that license and game forever registered on XBL, free to download and use by your account on any console until you trade in the game. Let's not forget the 10 Family Members benefit, where they can also play any of the games you bought, and you can play any of the games they bought.

If the 24 hour connection requirement isn't there, I could install a game on my XB1, give the disc to a friend and he will be free to install and play the game as well, and so on. It keeps licensing in check, and prevents unauthorized use of games. Obviously the loaning system (loan to a friend whose been on your FL for 30+ days) prevents loaning issues from arising too, and though it seems restrictive, I don't know anyone who hasn't had their close friends on XBL for less than 30 days by now, especially since friends and such will be transferred over.

Modifié par redBadger14, 17 juin 2013 - 05:52 .

[Fawx9]

redBadger14 wrote...

jesuno wrote...

redBadger14 wrote...

I think it should also be noted that "PS4 dev kits" are basically PC's running at similar or slightly better specs. It's likely that very few PS4 games were being played on an actual PS4.

That said, Microsoft's PR has indeed been horrid. It's too bad they couldn't just adhere more to the PR document that was leaked, they would not be in the massive hole they're in now.

I won't place the link to the PR leak here, not sure if the BSN Rules will allow for that. A simple Google search and you guys will find it just easily, regardless.

What has me hopeful from the leak is that it looks like Microsoft is going to implement digital rentals to XB1, possibly by working with GameFly. Not sure if physical rentals would be there too though.

As for the technical issues, I'll just have to have faith that the engineers can work it out.

From what the document I found says, this only places MS's PR in a much worse light. There is nothing detailing the always online function, 24 hour check in, used game policies, and so on, questions MS should have known that even the most basic guy on the floor in charge of demoing a game would have been asked. But these people are human, and I am almost sure several people lost their jobs this week, but I hope they are given a second chance.

I thought it did highlight the 24-hour check in? I don't exactly recall, but I don't think if it isn't there it wouldn't be much of an issue. They've said multiple times that used games aren't blocked, there will be a 24-hour check in (to prevent unlimited illegal distribution of games). Hell the check-in itself is something like under 10 kilobytes, something even the poor internet consumers will be able to easily download.

What Microsoft really needs to do is bring more clarity to the message, and get the ultimate truths about their policies out there. All the outrage is due to very unclear messaging, bad PR, and so forth. Hell have one good panel at PAX for instance, and put everything on the table.

An internet connection required once every 24 hours (for a KB file) is nothing anyone should be getting angry at. The reason it's there is to prevent exploitation of what Microsoft plans to do with XB1 games. You can buy a disc, install it on the XB1, have that license and game forever registered on XBL, free to download and use by your account on any console until you trade in the game. Let's not forget the 10 Family Members benefit, where they can also play any of the games you bought, and you can play any of the games they bought.

If the 24 hour connection requirement isn't there, I could install a game on my XB1, give the disc to a friend and he will be free to install and play the game as well, and so on. It keeps licensing in check, and prevents unauthorized use of games. Obviously the loaning system (loan to a friend whose been on your FL for 30+ days) prevents loaning issues from arising too, and though it seems restrictive, I don't know anyone who hasn't had their close friends on XBL for less than 30 days by now, especially since friends and such will be transferred over.

They need more than clarity, they need to compeltly revamp their message.

Wat they've done is basically put in a bunch of restricitions, called it future proofing and shoved that in our faces. They have not come out and said why I benefit from having to connect once 24 hours, why removing the ease of loaning/buying used is removed, why the kinect is focred upon me, why I'm paying the same price as the US when half the features aren't going to work.

It sounds more like they are trying to sell a dumbed down gaming PC to console owners without explaining why that's a good thing. Of course thats going to come off horrible.

[ShepnTali]

And downloaded games will cost the same as retail, so no advantage there.

[billy the squid]

Cyonan wrote...

billy the squid wrote...
MS has so far managed to rile up the gaming community to such a degree that now most people are indeed, sticking a proverbial knife in and giving it a twist.

It's not the tactic though is it. It's the difference in hardware. Between what is available, and what they used to generate that performance, smoke and mirrors maybe, but it's skirting the line of fraudulent misrep if they're shoving in a GTX 700 series GPU.

If they want to run it on a stable system, ie: a PC with similar specs as the dev kit isn't finalised yet, then fair enough, not great, but it beats the game crashing every 5 minutes, it's understandable and no one would have an issue.

The difference being that it is not industry standard, at least according to the devs who were running their games on the PS4 dev kit. This is the whole issue, what has become industry standard has become so maligned by this point that PS4 simply highlighted just how far the rot has set in within the console industry. It's sad that Sony, by sitting in it's arse was of greater benefit, by simply illustrating what a crap direction things seem to be moving towards.

Most people didn't have an issue with this(or weren't being very vocal about it from what I can see) or just didn't know it was going on until Microsoft got caught doing it. I'd bet that if there wasn't all the hate around the X1 that the majority of people would not be angry about it.

There's a thing about it making a product look better than it really is, but that's a whole other conversation and gamers aren't exactly known for being rational about a company that we're currently hating on. We just keep on hating on them and finding reasons to hate them more.

In a month most of the internet will probably have forgotten about it anyway and next E3 we can do it all over again.

I think the main thing is that MS said it was using the X1, to demo these games, which is a an outright lie. It's not so much that they were demoing with a PC, rather they were using one which wasn't even similar in terms of performance.

It's true that gamers have let the industry slide to this level where "industry standard" equates to it being okay, even if the practice is downright anti consumer or shady at the very least. And it's unfortunate that MS seems to be the target of 10 years of accumulated rage that has built up over the last gen. Yet none of the reasons are really unjust considering MS and publisher's track records, so those reasons to hate them aren't fictional, even if the storm of criticism isn't the most nuanced, the rage is there for a reason. 

I'm not even sure if it's because they used the GTX700 instead of a X1 dev kit/ similar specced PC. It's the constant lying, obfuscation and practices which have caused things to blow up. This one is simply the latest example of the industry's behaviour.

[redBadger14]

Fawx9 wrote...

redBadger14 wrote...

jesuno wrote...

redBadger14 wrote...

I think it should also be noted that "PS4 dev kits" are basically PC's running at similar or slightly better specs. It's likely that very few PS4 games were being played on an actual PS4.

That said, Microsoft's PR has indeed been horrid. It's too bad they couldn't just adhere more to the PR document that was leaked, they would not be in the massive hole they're in now.

I won't place the link to the PR leak here, not sure if the BSN Rules will allow for that. A simple Google search and you guys will find it just easily, regardless.

What has me hopeful from the leak is that it looks like Microsoft is going to implement digital rentals to XB1, possibly by working with GameFly. Not sure if physical rentals would be there too though.

As for the technical issues, I'll just have to have faith that the engineers can work it out.

From what the document I found says, this only places MS's PR in a much worse light. There is nothing detailing the always online function, 24 hour check in, used game policies, and so on, questions MS should have known that even the most basic guy on the floor in charge of demoing a game would have been asked. But these people are human, and I am almost sure several people lost their jobs this week, but I hope they are given a second chance.

I thought it did highlight the 24-hour check in? I don't exactly recall, but I don't think if it isn't there it wouldn't be much of an issue. They've said multiple times that used games aren't blocked, there will be a 24-hour check in (to prevent unlimited illegal distribution of games). Hell the check-in itself is something like under 10 kilobytes, something even the poor internet consumers will be able to easily download.

What Microsoft really needs to do is bring more clarity to the message, and get the ultimate truths about their policies out there. All the outrage is due to very unclear messaging, bad PR, and so forth. Hell have one good panel at PAX for instance, and put everything on the table.

An internet connection required once every 24 hours (for a KB file) is nothing anyone should be getting angry at. The reason it's there is to prevent exploitation of what Microsoft plans to do with XB1 games. You can buy a disc, install it on the XB1, have that license and game forever registered on XBL, free to download and use by your account on any console until you trade in the game. Let's not forget the 10 Family Members benefit, where they can also play any of the games you bought, and you can play any of the games they bought.

If the 24 hour connection requirement isn't there, I could install a game on my XB1, give the disc to a friend and he will be free to install and play the game as well, and so on. It keeps licensing in check, and prevents unauthorized use of games. Obviously the loaning system (loan to a friend whose been on your FL for 30+ days) prevents loaning issues from arising too, and though it seems restrictive, I don't know anyone who hasn't had their close friends on XBL for less than 30 days by now, especially since friends and such will be transferred over.

They need more than clarity, they need to compeltly revamp their message.

Wat they've done is basically put in a bunch of restricitions, called it future proofing and shoved that in our faces. They have not come out and said why I benefit from having to connect once 24 hours, why removing the ease of loaning/buying used is removed, why the kinect is focred upon me, why I'm paying the same price as the US when half the features aren't going to work.

It sounds more like they are trying to sell a dumbed down gaming PC to console owners without explaining why that's a good thing. Of course thats going to come off horrible.

The only "restriction" is a 24 hour check in. Kinect, while the bundling isn't ideal, the thing isn't required to operate to play. Plug it in and turn it off. Simple.

Also, ever heard of a thing called Steam? You can't loan games to friends on that at all. You also need to be connected all the time (offline mode nonwithstanding).

XB1 is basically being designed as a console version of Steam. While the messaging is being completely muddled by MS, doing research and getting to the core of what XB1 is trying to achieve is, essentially, Steam.

ShepnTali wrote...

And downloaded games will cost the same as retail, so no advantage there.

Don't believe that has actually been confirmed. Retail games for first party will cost $60, but if the anonymous Microsoft engineer is to be believed, expect Steam-like sales for the digital versions of games on XBL Marketplace.

[ShepnTali]

^ Confirmed