4196 réponses à ce sujet

[Fawx9]

redBadger14 wrote...

Fawx9 wrote...

They need more than clarity, they need to compeltly revamp their message.

Wat they've done is basically put in a bunch of restricitions, called it future proofing and shoved that in our faces. They have not come out and said why I benefit from having to connect once 24 hours, why removing the ease of loaning/buying used is removed, why the kinect is focred upon me, why I'm paying the same price as the US when half the features aren't going to work.

It sounds more like they are trying to sell a dumbed down gaming PC to console owners without explaining why that's a good thing. Of course thats going to come off horrible.

The only "restriction" is a 24 hour check in. Kinect, while the bundling isn't ideal, the thing isn't required to operate to play. Plug it in and turn it off. Simple.

Also, ever heard of a thing called Steam? You can't loan games to friends on that at all. You also need to be connected all the time (offline mode nonwithstanding).

XB1 is basically being designed as a console version of Steam. While the messaging is being completely muddled by MS, doing research and getting to the core of what XB1 is trying to achieve is, essentially, Steam.

ShepnTali wrote...

And downloaded games will cost the same as retail, so no advantage there.

Don't believe that has actually been confirmed. Retail games for first party will cost $60, but if the anonymous Microsoft engineer is to be believed, expect Steam-like sales for the digital versions of games on XBL Marketplace.

I know what Steam is and I know that this a dumbed down version of it.

The problem outside of being a dumbed down version of something  is that is they havent actually said why this version is good for console gamers. If I wanted Steam I'd bring down my PC and use big pitcure mode and get all of the sales + offline mode + giant modding community + all the other benefits of being a real PC.

They havent sold anyone on whatever benefits this brings and until they do they aren't going to convert
many to their way of thinking.

[Cyonan]

redBadger14 wrote...
The only "restriction" is a 24 hour check in. Kinect, while the bundling isn't ideal, the thing isn't required to operate to play. Plug it in and turn it off. Simple.

Also, ever heard of a thing called Steam? You can't loan games to friends on that at all. You also need to be connected all the time (offline mode nonwithstanding).

XB1 is basically being designed as a console version of Steam. While the messaging is being completely muddled by MS, doing research and getting to the core of what XB1 is trying to achieve is, essentially, Steam.

I think the problem people have is that X1 doesn't have an offline mode while Steam does. If my internet connection stops working for an extended period of time, I can still play any game that isn't online multi-player on my PC.

Also, if the cloud is even 1/4 as powerful as Microsoft claims it is then any game utilizing it is likely going to be always-on.

That's simply too much computing power to have or, more importantly, not have if your connection goes down.

The library sharing is a very nice thing however, and I wish Steam would let me do that.

[redBadger14]

ShepnTali wrote...

^ Confirmed

The title of the article includes digital, but the Microsoft statement makes no mention of digital prices. Still unconfirmed. Anything is possible at this point.

[redBadger14]

Cyonan wrote...

redBadger14 wrote...
The only "restriction" is a 24 hour check in. Kinect, while the bundling isn't ideal, the thing isn't required to operate to play. Plug it in and turn it off. Simple.

Also, ever heard of a thing called Steam? You can't loan games to friends on that at all. You also need to be connected all the time (offline mode nonwithstanding).

XB1 is basically being designed as a console version of Steam. While the messaging is being completely muddled by MS, doing research and getting to the core of what XB1 is trying to achieve is, essentially, Steam.

I think the problem people have is that X1 doesn't have an offline mode while Steam does. If my internet connection stops working for an extended period of time, I can still play any game that isn't online multi-player on my PC.

Also, if the cloud is even 1/4 as powerful as Microsoft claims it is then any game utilizing it is likely going to be always-on.

That's simply too much computing power to have or, more importantly, not have if your connection goes down.

The library sharing is a very nice thing however, and I wish Steam would let me do that.

Yeah that's my main concern as well. They'll need to have some sort of offline mode I think. 

[billy the squid]

The X1 steam comparison is incredibly faulty. The X1 isn't even cloase to being steam other than the superficial similarity of it being a digital store.

Steam, can be used to play games off line, there are mod tools, the releases are day one, there are pre order sales (look at Rome Total war 2) huge sales and bundles of games. And the move to allow digital trade is coming due to the recent EU ruling on Software license ownership.

Xbox live doesn't let people play off line due to the 24 hour restriction and I wouldn't hold my breath that they allow for similar steam sales. Given MS was fined 1.4 billion Euros for monopolistic practices by the EU competition commission, the day MS doesn't try to gouge people is the day hell freezes over.

The X1 is a closed system where it has partitioned it's own market for it's own purposes. Its can charge whatever it wants, and that's the problem. Look at Origin, a digital system which was used to cut all manner of costs and it still charged £40 for a bloody game.

Both of the above are different in that they have no direct competition. The likes of Steam has competition for Desura, Amazon, Greenman Gaming. GoG, independent devs self publishing on their site, even Origin. Its an age old economic principle that competition drives prices down, and that is a benefit to us. MS cornering a market is not, MS reducing prices goes against everything that we know, as seen with EA, Origin and the old Xbox live system where game prices stay high months after release, and against economic theory itself.

@Cyonan. There's been a lot of people calling rubbish on the "power of cloud" which also calls into question MS' comments that you will not lose access to your games post server or X1 moving on.

Modifié par billy the squid, 17 juin 2013 - 08:12 .

[ShepnTali]

You don'release retail versions, then undercut the retailers. But considering other strange Microsoft decisions, nothing is surprising with them.

[billy the squid]

ShepnTali wrote...

You don'release retail versions, then undercut the retailers. But considering other strange Microsoft decisions, nothing is surprising with them.

True the console exists in a limbo between digital retail distribution.

But if Gamestop is so evil, and harms the games industry. Why are companies so eager to do business with it? Why are they cloying for it's support? Like pre order DLC, exclusives etc. If it was so harmful to EA's business, that it was hurting it to an extent that EA and some other publisher's claim,  then it wouldn't be doing business with it. Which is why they, publishers, seem to come across as liars.

Modifié par billy the squid, 17 juin 2013 - 07:55 .

[redBadger14]

billy the squid wrote...

The X1 steam comparison is incredibly faulty. The X1 isn't even cloase to being steam other than the superficial similarity of it being a digital store.

Steam, can be used to play games off line, there are mod tools, the releases are day one, there are pre order sales (look at Rome Total war 2) huge sales and bundles of games. And the move to allow digital trade is coming due to the recent EU ruling on Software license ownership.

Xbox live doesn't let people play off line due to the 24 hour restriction and I wouldn't hold my breath that they allow for similar steam sales. Given MS was fined 1.4 billion Euros for monopolistic practices by the EU competition commission, the day MS doesn't try to gouge people is the day hell freezes over.

The X1 is a closed system where it has partitioned it's own market for it's own purposes. Its can charge whatever it wants, and that's the problem. Look at Origin, a digital system which was used to cut all manner of costs and it still charged £40 for a bloody game.

Both of the above are different in that they have no direct competition. The likes of Steam has competition for Desura, Amazon, Greenman Gaming. GoG, independent devs self publishing on their site, even Origin. Its an age old economic principle that competition drives prices down, and that is a benefit to us. MS cornering a market is not, MS reducing prices goes against everything that we know, as seen with EA, Origin and the old Xbox live system where game prices stay high months after release, and against economic theory itself.

@Cyonan. There's been a lot of people calling rubbish on the "power of cloud" which also calls into question MS' comments that you will not lose access to your games post server or X1 moving on.

Well, yeah, comparing it to Steam now, the XB1 is somewhat off. XB1 will just be launching though, and comparing it to when Steam launched, they are very similar. 

I believe people were aprehensive toward Steam when it first launched as well. Always online to access games? DRM? Who wants that, right? When Steam was allowed to grow and fix its mistakes, it's the powerhouse we now know of today. There's the offline mode, there's some of the best sales you don't even see at retail, etc.

I know Microsoft hasn't warranted nearly as much trust as Valve has over the years, and even Valve was more trustworthy at Steam's launch than Microsoft at XB1's launch, but I have to remain slightly optimistic, but also cautious. If Microsoft really can pull off Steam on console, Sony *may* have their work cut out for them. But who can really be sure? 

[billy the squid]

redBadger14 wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

The X1 steam comparison is incredibly faulty. The X1 isn't even cloase to being steam other than the superficial similarity of it being a digital store.

Steam, can be used to play games off line, there are mod tools, the releases are day one, there are pre order sales (look at Rome Total war 2) huge sales and bundles of games. And the move to allow digital trade is coming due to the recent EU ruling on Software license ownership.

Xbox live doesn't let people play off line due to the 24 hour restriction and I wouldn't hold my breath that they allow for similar steam sales. Given MS was fined 1.4 billion Euros for monopolistic practices by the EU competition commission, the day MS doesn't try to gouge people is the day hell freezes over.

The X1 is a closed system where it has partitioned it's own market for it's own purposes. Its can charge whatever it wants, and that's the problem. Look at Origin, a digital system which was used to cut all manner of costs and it still charged £40 for a bloody game.

Both of the above are different in that they have no direct competition. The likes of Steam has competition for Desura, Amazon, Greenman Gaming. GoG, independent devs self publishing on their site, even Origin. Its an age old economic principle that competition drives prices down, and that is a benefit to us. MS cornering a market is not, MS reducing prices goes against everything that we know, as seen with EA, Origin and the old Xbox live system where game prices stay high months after release, and against economic theory itself.

@Cyonan. There's been a lot of people calling rubbish on the "power of cloud" which also calls into question MS' comments that you will not lose access to your games post server or X1 moving on.

Well, yeah, comparing it to Steam now, the XB1 is somewhat off. XB1 will just be launching though, and comparing it to when Steam launched, they are very similar. 

I believe people were aprehensive toward Steam when it first launched as well. Always online to access games? DRM? Who wants that, right? When Steam was allowed to grow and fix its mistakes, it's the powerhouse we now know of today. There's the offline mode, there's some of the best sales you don't even see at retail, etc.

I know Microsoft hasn't warranted nearly as much trust as Valve has over the years, and even Valve was more trustworthy at Steam's launch than Microsoft at XB1's launch, but I have to remain slightly optimistic, but also cautious. If Microsoft really can pull off Steam on console, Sony *may* have their work cut out for them. But who can really be sure? 

The main problem is I don't see MS ever doing what Steam did. Steam is in direct competition with any other digital retailer who decides it wants to enter the market. Steam has a significant advantage being the first, but the likes of Amazon, GoG, Desura, Greenman Games, self publishing and Origin all give it a run for it's competition. That's what keeps Steam honest, there's nothing stopping the consumer from simply switching to another supplier.

The X1? It has no competition. Once you buy an X1 that's it, there is no reason for MS to implement any of similar improvements or sales, because there's no reason for them to do so. That has always been the problem with MS, and it's track record on doing this kind of thing is one of the worst in the industry, a fine of 1.4 billion Euros, is a the largest recorded fine in the history of the Competition Commission.

Sony already has the advantage with it's streaming of PS3 games, the free PSN and better PS plus. Giving people a pick of free games monthly for buying PS plus is a pretty sweet deal for £3 a month. And I still get access to all the other internet advantages including netflix patches updates etc. with just the normal network. Only PS plus is for multiplayer. It's not ideal, but I'm getting something free to sweeten the deal. Xbox live stick everything behind a paywall.

MS already has it's work cut out vs the PSN and PS plus, and even that's a fair way off steam. 

[billy the squid]

Don Mattrick-
Microsoft is "really making the living room your center of fun for your family,"

.... because before Xbox One came along, our family used the f*cking bathroom. 

Please Microsoft, just stop, and will someone take that shovel away from them, before they dig a hole so deep they can hand over a copy of the X1 to Satan personally.

Modifié par billy the squid, 17 juin 2013 - 11:19 .

[Volus Warlord]

billy the squid wrote...

Don Mattrick-
Microsoft is "really making the living room your center of fun for your family,"

.... because before Xbox One came along, our family used the f*cking bathroom. 

Please Microsoft, just stop, and will someone take that shovel away from them, before they dig a hole so deep they can hand over a copy of the X1 to Satan personally.

Satan plays Dreamcast.

[RedArmyShogun]

[Inappropriate post removed.]

Modifié par Ninja Stan, 18 juin 2013 - 07:08 .

[spirosz]

I love how Major Nelson dodges the internet questions with "BUT THE FAMILY, DO YOU NOT CARE FOR THOSE BENEFITS?"

Angry Joe Interviews Major Nelson at E3

[OdanUrr]

spirosz wrote...

I love how Major Nelson dodges the internet questions with "BUT THE FAMILY, DO YOU NOT CARE FOR THOSE BENEFITS?"

Angry Joe Interviews Major Nelson at E3

My family doesn't play video games, only my brother and I do. And even then we only have one Xbox 360.

*shrugs* Ah, well, it was good while it lasted.

[redBadger14]

billy the squid wrote...

redBadger14 wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

The X1 steam comparison is incredibly faulty. The X1 isn't even cloase to being steam other than the superficial similarity of it being a digital store.

Steam, can be used to play games off line, there are mod tools, the releases are day one, there are pre order sales (look at Rome Total war 2) huge sales and bundles of games. And the move to allow digital trade is coming due to the recent EU ruling on Software license ownership.

Xbox live doesn't let people play off line due to the 24 hour restriction and I wouldn't hold my breath that they allow for similar steam sales. Given MS was fined 1.4 billion Euros for monopolistic practices by the EU competition commission, the day MS doesn't try to gouge people is the day hell freezes over.

The X1 is a closed system where it has partitioned it's own market for it's own purposes. Its can charge whatever it wants, and that's the problem. Look at Origin, a digital system which was used to cut all manner of costs and it still charged £40 for a bloody game.

Both of the above are different in that they have no direct competition. The likes of Steam has competition for Desura, Amazon, Greenman Gaming. GoG, independent devs self publishing on their site, even Origin. Its an age old economic principle that competition drives prices down, and that is a benefit to us. MS cornering a market is not, MS reducing prices goes against everything that we know, as seen with EA, Origin and the old Xbox live system where game prices stay high months after release, and against economic theory itself.

@Cyonan. There's been a lot of people calling rubbish on the "power of cloud" which also calls into question MS' comments that you will not lose access to your games post server or X1 moving on.

Well, yeah, comparing it to Steam now, the XB1 is somewhat off. XB1 will just be launching though, and comparing it to when Steam launched, they are very similar. 

I believe people were aprehensive toward Steam when it first launched as well. Always online to access games? DRM? Who wants that, right? When Steam was allowed to grow and fix its mistakes, it's the powerhouse we now know of today. There's the offline mode, there's some of the best sales you don't even see at retail, etc.

I know Microsoft hasn't warranted nearly as much trust as Valve has over the years, and even Valve was more trustworthy at Steam's launch than Microsoft at XB1's launch, but I have to remain slightly optimistic, but also cautious. If Microsoft really can pull off Steam on console, Sony *may* have their work cut out for them. But who can really be sure? 

The main problem is I don't see MS ever doing what Steam did. Steam is in direct competition with any other digital retailer who decides it wants to enter the market. Steam has a significant advantage being the first, but the likes of Amazon, GoG, Desura, Greenman Games, self publishing and Origin all give it a run for it's competition. That's what keeps Steam honest, there's nothing stopping the consumer from simply switching to another supplier.

The X1? It has no competition. Once you buy an X1 that's it, there is no reason for MS to implement any of similar improvements or sales, because there's no reason for them to do so. That has always been the problem with MS, and it's track record on doing this kind of thing is one of the worst in the industry, a fine of 1.4 billion Euros, is a the largest recorded fine in the history of the Competition Commission.

Sony already has the advantage with it's streaming of PS3 games, the free PSN and better PS plus. Giving people a pick of free games monthly for buying PS plus is a pretty sweet deal for £3 a month. And I still get access to all the other internet advantages including netflix patches updates etc. with just the normal network. Only PS plus is for multiplayer. It's not ideal, but I'm getting something free to sweeten the deal. Xbox live stick everything behind a paywall.

MS already has it's work cut out vs the PSN and PS plus, and even that's a fair way off steam. 

Fair point. 

I should bring up though that, even though Sony does have a slight advantage in what its service is offering (so far), none of these will compare to what games they have to offer, and what needs they'll satisfy. 

I'm getting Xbox One. Why? Because the perceived negatives about it don't affect me. My internet is fast and always stable. I am also more interested in the games XB1 will bring. Titanfall, Dead Space 3, Sunset Overdrive all interest me, and are games I want. The PS4 exclusives I don't particularly care for, so what reason is there to buy it?

I also know the "family" features of the XB1 are something my family can take advantage of. We could use a new Blu Ray player, but on top of that, my father loves renting movies, I love watching HBO Go, brother likes to use YouTube, etc. There's something for all, and the idea of a console that isn't purely about games, that my father can use (he just turned 62 or something yesterday lol), is attractive.

Obviously though, if all you'll do is purely game and don't have as much a quality internet connection, the PS4 would be the choice for you. It's all about which platform appeals to particular consumers.

 At the end of the day, that's all it comes down to, IMHO.

[spirosz]

That is a fair point Red, but alas, I'm in the opposite boat. The only title that interests me on the X1 is Halo 5, but I won't spend 499 for one game and the fact that Kinect is mandatory. The thing is, if I can turn off Kinect and I would never use it, why should I pay the full amount if I know I'll never use that piece of hardware, I honestly think it should be optional. I might pick up a X1 when it's like 199 and if they offer something different in the next few years - Kinect being optional, etc.

Also, I don't agree that games are the only thing that matters because if you feel like you have to jump through all these hoops and as a consumer, feeling restricted in such a way, that should be a priority in relation to the games they offer and the price.

Modifié par spirosz, 18 juin 2013 - 01:24 .

[chunkyman]

The Xbox One is going to be crushed by the PS4 on par with how the PS2 significantly outsold the original Xbox. I think of it as karma for all the severe reliability issues I had with my 360.

The tears will be sweet, sweet like gumdrops.

[Lunch Box1912]

Well after reading all the hub bub in this thread I would like to say I have pre ordered my XB1 already and I feel after a year or two you will all look back on this and think how silly all this was.

It may not be focusing on games but I believe Microsoft is seeing the bigger picture of whats to come and I believe they are heading in the right direction.

Also developers need to make money off of the games they develop, it is difficult to do that when gamers are downloading it and passing it around to ten other people. Let them license these games, they can sell more phisical units this way, some one wants to play it they just have to buy it like everyone else, the developers make more revenue selling more units, they can then put that increased revenue into game development... and we don't end up with games with ending's like ME3

[OdanUrr]

Lunch Box1912 wrote...

Also developers need to make money off of the games they develop, it is difficult to do that when gamers are downloading it and passing it around to ten other people. Let them license these games, they can sell more phisical units this way, some one wants to play it they just have to buy it like everyone else, the developers make more revenue selling more units, they can then put that increased revenue into game development... and we don't end up with games with ending's like ME3

Aren't devs/publishers still making money off used games with online passes and DLC?

[DukeOfNukes]

Do you honestly believe that ME3's ending was due to a lack of funding? I know you're making a joke, but still.

I don't care what Microsofts vision of the future is. My vision of the future is being able to access my game library in 20 years, assuming we haven't all been enslaved by ant people by then.

Very simple: I largely stuck to console gaming because of how easy it was. I can stick a disc in my system, play it, and if I don't like it, sell it on ebay to get some of my money back. If I can't do either of those, then there's no reason for me to have a console, ergo, there's no reason for me to get the X1, I'd be better off sticking to my PC. Particularly since now I can hook my PC up to my TV and use an Xbox controller with it.

[Lunch Box1912]

Yeah but there often losing out on the $20 for the re-purchase of the game. I understand if someone is buying it used they already got the original retail price but you have to look at it as the gamer buying it used could have bought it new for the full retail price and the developer doesn't have to hope it's purchased second hand at a retailer that pays developers for such sales.

[Lunch Box1912]

DukeOfNukes wrote...

Do you honestly believe that ME3's ending was due to a lack of funding? I know you're making a joke, but still.

I don't care what Microsofts vision of the future is. My vision of the future is being able to access my game library in 20 years, assuming we haven't all been enslaved by ant people by then.

Very simple: I largely stuck to console gaming because of how easy it was. I can stick a disc in my system, play it, and if I don't like it, sell it on ebay to get some of my money back. If I can't do either of those, then there's no reason for me to have a console, ergo, there's no reason for me to get the X1, I'd be better off sticking to my PC. Particularly since now I can hook my PC up to my TV and use an Xbox controller with it.

No I'm just being a dick. Yes joking, but the developers should get the revenue for their games.

Modifié par Lunch Box1912, 18 juin 2013 - 02:42 .

[AresKeith]

Lunch Box1912 wrote...

DukeOfNukes wrote...

Do you honestly believe that ME3's ending was due to a lack of funding? I know you're making a joke, but still.

I don't care what Microsofts vision of the future is. My vision of the future is being able to access my game library in 20 years, assuming we haven't all been enslaved by ant people by then.

Very simple: I largely stuck to console gaming because of how easy it was. I can stick a disc in my system, play it, and if I don't like it, sell it on ebay to get some of my money back. If I can't do either of those, then there's no reason for me to have a console, ergo, there's no reason for me to get the X1, I'd be better off sticking to my PC. Particularly since now I can hook my PC up to my TV and use an Xbox controller with it.

No I'm just being a dick. Yes joking, but the developers should get the revenue for their games.

They do get revenue from their games, this used game fee crap from X1 is Microsoft and others throwing a fit because retailers decided they wanted to make their own profit for re-selling the games people returned

[BrookerT]

 Hey everyone, I have made a next gen consoles buyers guide for the Xbox One, PS4 and Wii U here, any thing you can help add would be great:happy:

Modifié par BrookerT, 18 juin 2013 - 10:40 .

[billy the squid]

Lunch Box1912 wrote...

....but the developers should get the revenue for their games.

They already do. What they're doing now is double dipping. It's not our problem if their business model and publisher's operating budgets are so bloated and inefficient that they can't support themselves. They keep saying that consumers expect more, so they HAVE to provide it, it hasn't stopped them doing what ever they want other times. It's sad the startling level of hypocrisy present, that they feel the need to blame, piracy, used games, consumers unreal expectations blah, blah, blah. Frankly anything, rather than take a look and realise that their problems are their own fault.