4196 réponses à ce sujet

[Sylvianus]

Ottemis wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

Good, they are listening. Now I don't know what to do. Xbox one or PS4 ? I'll see. Still disappointed by microsoft. I never considered buying something else, I was happy with my xbox360. Now...

Also unlike many people in this thread, I don't want Sony to win this war, that's foolish. Competition is a good thing for gamers. Without that, Sony would become overconfident and arrogant.

Ehh yet Microsoft tried to pull this stunt in the first place while Sony absolutely stayed away from it.

What gets to me most is the assumptions Microsoft pulls towards the circumstance of their customers, bringing up people in a nucleair sub as examples of people without internet is both rediculous and sad. It's not to say he's wrong, but it just sounds rediculous. Even in first-world countries internet coverage leaves to be desired with whole areas not having access. Ignoring or being ignorant to that being true just pisses off a whole lot of people that would maybe have liked to purchase your product regardless. These people are not nessecarily without means, their area purely lacks the architecture. There's a distinct difference. It's logical if people without internet are blocked from using or buying things that absolutely require internet but this DOESN'T, so making it a requirement is blatantly saying they simply don't care about all these people collectively.

I am personally warned enough by them having tried this, and apparently missing the part where half their statements basically told users to go stick it if they didn't have it as good as they expected people to have it in certain parts of the world. Telling developing parts of the world to use their old machine. I don't know about you guys, but that just got on my ****** like nothing else and I live in the Netherlands on fibre. This really will never be an issue for me personally.

I get what you are saying and I agree with everything you said.  But there's absolutely no " good " company on the side of the gamers however. It would be naive to think so in my opinion. Microsoft dared to do something Sony didn't want to try. Microsoft lately was more than stupid, Sony wasn't. They knew it would be seen as a bad thing and franckly not seeing it is beyond me. I get that Sony can appear as a hero to the eyes of many gamers right now, and it's understandable but wishing that they win this war, is just ridiculous. Any company can become overconfident like was Microsoft at one time. Microsoft has now decided to change its direction.

No more competition = less quality games, lazy work, strange policies, gamers screwed. That's all what it means to me.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 20 juin 2013 - 10:42 .

[billy the squid]

Sony was overconfident and downright arrogant when it released the PS3 and it received a real kicking for it in market share and losses. After the first year it had to bend over backwards to earn gamers' trust back and even then it lost so much ground to the Xbox 360. With 78 million sales to the 360's 76 million after it completely dominated with the PS2.

I think it was a hard lesson that they learnt and didn't forget with the PS4. MS however, did evactly the same, but worse. And they paid for it, rightfully.

If Sony demolishes MS this generation I wouldn't shed a tear, it would be the wake up call MS needed to get their act together. As it stands We still have the Steambox coming into the market, with Steam's digital archive, that could be massive, and a really competitor for the core market Sony has gone for. MS I doubt will pull out, but it doesn't hurt them getting a bloody nose when they're being idiots.

[Sylvianus]

billy the squid wrote...

Sony was overconfident and downright arrogant when it released the PS3 and it received a real kicking for it in market share and losses. After the first year it had to bend over backwards to earn gamers' trust back and even then it lost so much ground to the Xbox 360. With 78 million sales to the 360's 76 million after it completely dominated with the PS2.

I think it was a hard lesson that they learnt and didn't forget with the PS4. MS however, did evactly the same, but worse. And they paid for it, rightfully.

If Sony demolishes MS this generation I wouldn't shed a tear, it would be the wake up call MS needed to get their act together. As it stands We still have the Steambox coming into the market, with Steam's digital archive, that could be massive, and a really competitor for the core market Sony has gone for. MS I doubt will pull out, but it doesn't hurt them getting a bloody nose when they're being idiots.

+ 1000.

I agree with everything you said. Absolutely true. I remember when Sony released in the first weeks the PS3. I don't remember how much it was, but that was crazy. Nobody wanted to buy it among my friends while they were normally all sony fanboys. I guess it was the same for many people. Sony quickly decided to change the price ! XD

What those companies need is to learn a good lesson when they are being idiots.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 20 juin 2013 - 11:28 .

[billy the squid]

Yep, I was considering going for the PS3, but after the way they behaved, I just laughed and said, nope, I'm getting the 360.

[Ravensword]

billy the squid wrote...

ViSeirA wrote...

Just chiming in: however anyone wants to put it, Sony and twitchy look-down-at-your-feet nerds just held back a good future vision for console gaming... the only thing I wanted was a region-free Xbox, and I got that but we also lost a lot of what made this console such a big deal:

- Digital game sharing
- Games that are tied to your account
- Disk-less gaming (who doesn't want that?)
- Digital reselling of games

I'm still going for the Xbox One, but quite frankly I wish Microsoft can implement their original plan one way or the other... we'll see in a few years, going all digital was the right thing to do MSFT.

You just had to bend over and grab your ankles to get it then.

1) Digital sharing, really? You can't be that naive, that the publishers would allow you to share the games with 10 people? Yet they tried to lock down the used game market, for precisely that reason.

2)How is that a good thing? If I want to re sell it I can't

3)You already have day one Digital download

4)Yeah, they're screwed with that in the EU already, after Usedsoft v Oracle.


Good future my arse. It was a draconian and cynical attempt to curtail consumer rights, and implement DRM to safeguard the publisher backers. Crony capitalism in it's finest form, just look at MS's approach to independent developers and individual game trading, vile and and effectively racketeering. 

It's like that one article by some guy named Kyle Wagner who whines about how the Xbone took a step back by bending over for their consumer-masters as it should be. 

It's really mystifying how people would so easily give up their rights as a consumer for a few questionable perks.

[Blooddrunk1004]

I'm still buying the PS4.
Microsoft showed their true colors, also Don Mattrick should get fired!

[ViSeiRa]

billy the squid wrote...

ViSeirA wrote...

Just chiming in: however anyone wants to put it, Sony and twitchy look-down-at-your-feet nerds just held back a good future vision for console gaming... the only thing I wanted was a region-free Xbox, and I got that but we also lost a lot of what made this console such a big deal:

- Digital game sharing
- Games that are tied to your account
- Disk-less gaming (who doesn't want that?)
- Digital reselling of games

I'm still going for the Xbox One, but quite frankly I wish Microsoft can implement their original plan one way or the other... we'll see in a few years, going all digital was the right thing to do MSFT.

You just had to bend over and grab your ankles to get it then.

1) Digital sharing, really? You can't be that naive, that the publishers would allow you to share the games with 10 people? Yet they tried to lock down the used game market, for precisely that reason.

2)How is that a good thing? If I want to re sell it I can't

3)You already have day one Digital download

4)Yeah, they're screwed with that in the EU already, after Usedsoft v Oracle.


Good future my arse. It was a draconian and cynical attempt to curtail consumer rights, and implement DRM to safeguard the publisher backers. Crony capitalism in it's finest form, just look at MS's approach to independent developers and individual game trading, vile and and effectively racketeering. 

1) Did you bother to check all the policies yourself or just picked them over from the news? there were certain restrictions in place to make this platable enough for both publishers and consumers.

2) & 4) You do realize they said they supported digital resale already in their original policies? (yes yes yes, at participating retailers and all that other gibberish) but it was still supported... essentially you're selling the license, that's why the 24 hour check was required.

3) Not the same, the original system allowed me to buy the disk version, install it and play without the disk... now I have to buy the digital version, i.e. no easy way to load the same game on another X1 using my account bar downloading it all over again, the original system was much much better.

Also, the fact that I was willing to purchase the system with those policies doesn't mean I'm "bending over" or any other terms you guys use in such situations... it just means I see the value in Microsoft's vision and what they "had" to offer, no sweat though, I'm pretty sure this generation is the last generation you guys get your way.

[GreatBlueHeron]

Well then, given microsoft's pouting and previous statements, they could release two systems: xbox 180 and xbox elite (for those with fast, reliable and uncapped internet).

[IntelligentME3Fanboy]

if you want xbone with drm and no used games buy steambox then

[billy the squid]

ViSeirA wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

ViSeirA wrote...

Just chiming in: however anyone wants to put it, Sony and twitchy look-down-at-your-feet nerds just held back a good future vision for console gaming... the only thing I wanted was a region-free Xbox, and I got that but we also lost a lot of what made this console such a big deal:

- Digital game sharing
- Games that are tied to your account
- Disk-less gaming (who doesn't want that?)
- Digital reselling of games

I'm still going for the Xbox One, but quite frankly I wish Microsoft can implement their original plan one way or the other... we'll see in a few years, going all digital was the right thing to do MSFT.

You just had to bend over and grab your ankles to get it then.

1) Digital sharing, really? You can't be that naive, that the publishers would allow you to share the games with 10 people? Yet they tried to lock down the used game market, for precisely that reason.

2)How is that a good thing? If I want to re sell it I can't

3)You already have day one Digital download

4)Yeah, they're screwed with that in the EU already, after Usedsoft v Oracle.


Good future my arse. It was a draconian and cynical attempt to curtail consumer rights, and implement DRM to safeguard the publisher backers. Crony capitalism in it's finest form, just look at MS's approach to independent developers and individual game trading, vile and and effectively racketeering. 

1) Did you bother to check all the policies yourself or just picked them over from the news? there were certain restrictions in place to make this platable enough for both publishers and consumers.

2) & 4) You do realize they said they supported digital resale already in their original policies? (yes yes yes, at participating retailers and all that other gibberish) but it was still supported... essentially you're selling the license, that's why the 24 hour check was required.

3) Not the same, the original system allowed me to buy the disk version, install it and play without the disk... now I have to buy the digital version, i.e. no easy way to load the same game on another X1 using my account bar downloading it all over again, the original system was much much better.

Also, the fact that I was willing to purchase the system with those policies doesn't mean I'm "bending over" or any other terms you guys use in such situations... it just means I see the value in Microsoft's vision and what they "had" to offer, no sweat though, I'm pretty sure this generation is the last generation you guys get your way.

1) What the 30 days on your friends list? The 1 person at a time family sharing? The details they gave were wishy washy and vague.

2 and 4) That gibberish entailed that you would be royally screwed given that it would be MS dictating, who, what, when and how much you can re sell for. And locks out anyone trying to use disk based copies.

3)The original was a cynical attempt to lock down any attempt to exercise control over your license. Not even Steam tried to do this. 

It means you're willing to wh0re yourself for shiny things, which is part of the reason why the console industry has got to this state. MS is looking at competition from Sony and the incoming Steambox. Sony did it right, and so has Steam. MS's move wasn't any advancement. Nothing it did was to innovate or create a digital world, every point it implemented had some caveate or asterisk attached to it stippulating a restriction, limitation, or taking something away. If MS decides to do thing properly next gen then that's fine. If it tries it again, it's in for the same all over again. 

[billy the squid]

Blooddrunk1004 wrote...

I'm still buying the PS4.
Microsoft showed their true colors, also Don Mattrick should get fired!

No way! He did an amazing job for Sony's marketing!

[ViSeiRa]

Well, look at your lexicon (vague, wishy washy, cynical, wh0re).

I'm sorry, not trying to make this personal or anything but you seem rather "emotional" about the subject at hand instead of logically approaching it so I'll not discuss it further with you sir.

[Ravensword]

ViSeirA wrote...

Well, look at your lexicon (vague, wishy washy, cynical, wh0re).

I'm sorry, not trying to make this personal or anything but you seem rather "emotional" about the subject at hand instead of logically approaching it so I'll not discuss it further with you sir.

Not trying to make it personal but you proceed to do so by calling him emotional. Nice.

Modifié par Ravensword, 20 juin 2013 - 12:18 .

[billy the squid]

ViSeirA wrote...

Well, look at your lexicon (vague, wishy washy, cynical, wh0re).

I'm sorry, not trying to make this personal or anything but you seem rather "emotional" about the subject at hand instead of logically approaching it so I'll not discuss it further with you sir.

Of course you won't. You'll lose, badly.

[billy the squid]

Ravensword wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

ViSeirA wrote...

Just chiming in: however anyone wants to put it, Sony and twitchy look-down-at-your-feet nerds just held back a good future vision for console gaming... the only thing I wanted was a region-free Xbox, and I got that but we also lost a lot of what made this console such a big deal:

- Digital game sharing
- Games that are tied to your account
- Disk-less gaming (who doesn't want that?)
- Digital reselling of games

I'm still going for the Xbox One, but quite frankly I wish Microsoft can implement their original plan one way or the other... we'll see in a few years, going all digital was the right thing to do MSFT.

You just had to bend over and grab your ankles to get it then.

1) Digital sharing, really? You can't be that naive, that the publishers would allow you to share the games with 10 people? Yet they tried to lock down the used game market, for precisely that reason.

2)How is that a good thing? If I want to re sell it I can't

3)You already have day one Digital download

4)Yeah, they're screwed with that in the EU already, after Usedsoft v Oracle.


Good future my arse. It was a draconian and cynical attempt to curtail consumer rights, and implement DRM to safeguard the publisher backers. Crony capitalism in it's finest form, just look at MS's approach to independent developers and individual game trading, vile and and effectively racketeering. 

It's like that one article by some guy named Kyle Wagner who whines about how the Xbone took a step back by bending over for their consumer-masters as it should be. 

It's really mystifying how people would so easily give up their rights as a consumer for a few questionable perks.

I know, thank god the Usedsoft v Oracle case in Germany was refered to the ECJ in November 2012, that one has some significant implications for digital and physical software re sale.

[Mendelevosa]

The fact that Microsoft was trying to make the X1 all digital was in itself the problem. If that had happened with the X1 and the PS4, then consoles would not have any advantages over the PC. The only things that console gaming has over PC gaming are the abilities to simply put in a physical disk and play a game, lend the physical copy to anyone, trade it, and sell it to individuals through yard sales, pawn shops, ebay, ect. With the way consoles are now, consumers have a choice to go either physical or digital. Had these DRM and online policies continued to be present, consoles would only end up being wannabe PC that would be worse than a gaming PC in every single way. And with Steam looking into game sharing, this would have only increased the inferiority of consoles.

And lets not forget Microsoft only planning to sell their console to a few countries, which would have already guaranteed a failure considering that some of its features would only work in the Americas.

Modifié par Mendelevosa, 20 juin 2013 - 01:36 .

[Naughty Bear]

So, is it true the Xbox One will get that sticker saying that the government is watching you?

[Overdosing]

Naughty Bear wrote...

So, is it true the Xbox One will get that sticker saying that the government is watching you?

With the "We Are Watching You" Act of 2013? That's a big-ass possibility.

[Naughty Bear]

Overdosing wrote...

Naughty Bear wrote...

So, is it true the Xbox One will get that sticker saying that the government is watching you?

With the "We Are Watching You" Act of 2013? That's a big-ass possibility.

That's the one. That's pretty damn scary, I already have some blu-tac on my laptop camera.

[Cyonan]

Overdosing wrote...

Naughty Bear wrote...

So, is it true the Xbox One will get that sticker saying that the government is watching you?

With the "We Are Watching You" Act of 2013? That's a big-ass possibility.

I see a potential issue with the part where they said " If consumers opt out of the new technology, companies are required to offer a video service that does not collect this information but is otherwise identical in all respects." for the case of the Kinect.

Microsoft already claims you can pause it or turn it off while not needed. This bill likely wont affect that part because it's not supposed to be recording then anyway, and the people who are still worried about it probably aren't going to feel better just because the government said "don't" considering they were the ones spying on us in the first place.

As for the times when it is needed, I don't see how you can offer an identical service that allows for gesture based commands if you can't record the person making the gestures.

[OdanUrr]

Overdosing wrote...

Naughty Bear wrote...

So, is it true the Xbox One will get that sticker saying that the government is watching you?

With the "We Are Watching You" Act of 2013? That's a big-ass possibility.

What about a "We Are Listening To You" label as well?

[Siven80]

It was bound to happen once they saw everyone (and US TV shows)cheering for Sonys approach. Once the word got out to the general public who dont really understand DRM etc they knew they would be hit hard.

Im a PC gamer, but i like to keep my eye on the console scene.

I understand what MS where trying to do, create a Steam like system for their console and that would eventually stop retail businesses selling used games for $5 less than new game sales.

BUT they went way overboard and just shoved a load of DRM in the consumers faces that made them feel like they are on parole.

Steam is successful because the games are cheap and the older games lower in price and there are loads of sales (week, weekend, daily, seasons) so people eventually buy more.
That doesnt happen on consoles. And can anyone really trust MS and Sony to lower the prices and have sales on the closed platform with no real competition like Steam has.

I do think in 5 years or so something similar will come around, whether its their digital stores lowering the prices and having sales to increase the digital sales of games and therefore slowly phasing out retail. PC is almost there, consoles wil leventually follow but companies really need to do it smart.

Removing all this DRM is the right thing. Now the Xbox 180 may do well, but it still has the mandatory kinect which most core gamers feel is still just a gimmick.
It should be an optional extra.

I can also see MS pushing devs to use this cloud gaming thing which will make games online-only. Question is other than the cloud being dedicated servers......what else is it other than PR talk.

Modifié par Siven80, 20 juin 2013 - 02:18 .

[Degs29]

Damn it!

Microsoft reverses on used-games and always-online (things I don't give a damn about), but does nothing about the required kinect (the thing I actually wanted them to take care of).

[billy the squid]

"More studios WILL close and you'll see more PC and mobile games." - Cliffy B. post DRM removal

Why are you such a tool Cliffy? Stop drinking the coolade!

Modifié par billy the squid, 20 juin 2013 - 03:38 .

[stonbw1]

The used game thing was so bizarre. Renting games provides some benefit: good games are subsequently purchased that may not have been.
Plus, I don't understand the stealing from artists argument: a consumer purchases a game to enjoy it for the life of a console. Therefore, by selling a game, the consumer forfeits that right and its is assigned to another. Regardless, the developer has the same thing: a game that is being used for the life of the console. I suppose the converse argument is that games are now like movies or books to be played once. From an old Nintendo gamer that played Mario Bros, duck hunt, Contra, Mike Tyson's Punchout, etc... a thousand times each, that's a bit sad.