4196 réponses à ce sujet

[Homebound]

AshedMan wrote...

GodWood wrote...

Mob Rules: The Destructive Power of Opinion and Online Community

Adam Orth To Give Speech On Online Toxicity

Sounds like it's going to be one big boohoo, woe-is-me event.  

Would be interesting to see what he has to say. But I get the impression that this is in response to advertisement's inability to BS the internet as it has done in the past b4 hand.

Anyways, speaking of destructive power of opinion, due to Xbox one's hilarious failure, Microsoft is switching off the DRM shenanigans they were planning on shoving down nextgen xbox users' throats.

I cant help think these two things and this presentation are related.

[RedArmyShogun]

Oh god I love this!

[LPPrince]

I would've laughed if Wii U had indeed been selling like hot cakes, but it seems to be having the polar opposite of the Wii's huge success.

Kinect actually sold quite well this gen, so its a bit interesting.

[MerinTB]

EntropicAngel wrote...

MerinTB wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

Filament wrote...
You mean like that time xbox tried to release console with draconian new features and nobody cared?

Nobody in the real world who actually gets things done cared.

Made it to CNN, The Guardian, and Jimmy Kimmel.

Of course none of those try to get anything done, and certainly don't live in the real world.

...

Seriously,
for someone hanging out on a gaming forum, EA, I'm often surprised at
your attempts to appear superior (as in - "I am interested in greater,
more lofty things!")

I should have been more specific: by "get anything done," I mean people that produce things, who deal with physicality, people in business, science, health. Not liberal arts.

And where did I point to myself? I never did that at all. You put those words "in my mouth."

I don't think myself superior. I consider gamers, including me, unimportant.

Wow, the hits just keep on coming with you, EA.  You are coming across as superior by dismissing such "not real", "not physical" things such as English, History, Mathematics, Psychology, Science, Philosophy...

do you KNOW what liberal arts means?  It means non-vocational studies.  Liberal arts education is focusing on making YOU a BETTER, MORE KNOWLEDGEABLE person... not on getting you a job.  That's the difference - it's the opposite of job training / technical schooling.

Getting, in context, to what you are saying:

1 - people on the internet are not real
2 - journalists are not real
3 - writers are not real
4 - game designers are not real
5 - law makers are not real
6 - scientists are not real

even if all them produce "real" things.  Unless you are somehow saying a person who turns wood pulp into paper has more worth, inherently because the finished product is something you can hold, than a legislator who's finished product is a law (granted, written on paper) or a scientist who's finished product is a theory (which, granted, will be written on paper) - you are coming across as monumentally myopic.

The false sense of humility, of "including yourself in all those you are dismissing as irrelevent," does not make your stance not superior.  Your judgment of what has more worth is where you are being superior.

....

If you HAVE had a liberal arts education, it sure didn't stick.

Modifié par MerinTB, 21 juin 2013 - 03:18 .

[Degs29]

stonbw1 wrote...

The used game thing was so bizarre. Renting games provides some benefit: good games are subsequently purchased that may not have been.
Plus, I don't understand the stealing from artists argument: a consumer purchases a game to enjoy it for the life of a console. Therefore, by selling a game, the consumer forfeits that right and its is assigned to another. Regardless, the developer has the same thing: a game that is being used for the life of the console. I suppose the converse argument is that games are now like movies or books to be played once. From an old Nintendo gamer that played Mario Bros, duck hunt, Contra, Mike Tyson's Punchout, etc... a thousand times each, that's a bit sad.

I've never resold a single game in my collection.  I still play them, even the ones way back on the SNES (my first console).  It's just not in me to give them up.  If it wasn't for that fact, I'd probably give a damn about used-games sales being resticted, but I don't.

Really, the only qualm I had about their original policies was the kinect requirement.  Unnecessary extra $$$.

Now I also don't like their reversal, because I think it restricts what they can do with the console.  Oh well, they listened to their fans, so kudos I suppose. 

[MerinTB]

LPPrince wrote...
I would've laughed if Wii U had indeed been selling like hot cakes, but it seems to be having the polar opposite of the Wii's huge success.

Kinect actually sold quite well this gen, so its a bit interesting.

Did the Kinect actually do well?  Huh.  I thought it had kinda flopped.  Not bombed, but didn't take off anywhere near what MS wanted.  Certainly not Wii-like.

EDIT - NM, did my internet research.  After a $500 million dollar ad campaign, and giving away thousands of the devices... yes, it sold very well.

Go figure.  I know two people who own them, and both have small children who are the ones who play with it.

Modifié par MerinTB, 21 juin 2013 - 03:37 .

[ShepnTali]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Seems Orth and Microsoft share the same opinion on trying to spite everyone and dismiss the fact that they were gigantic jerkasses to anyone who had legitimate concerns.

Yes, the dealwithit motto essentially carried on without Orth, until Microsoft got a reality check. Now it's turned into passive aggressive swipes. Now for another reality check big M... you'll now sell more boxes, so just flow.

Modifié par ShepnTali, 21 juin 2013 - 03:48 .

[LPPrince]

MerinTB wrote...

LPPrince wrote...
I would've laughed if Wii U had indeed been selling like hot cakes, but it seems to be having the polar opposite of the Wii's huge success.

Kinect actually sold quite well this gen, so its a bit interesting.

Did the Kinect actually do well?  Huh.  I thought it had kinda flopped.  Not bombed, but didn't take off anywhere near what MS wanted.  Certainly not Wii-like.

EDIT - NM, did my internet research.  After a $500 million dollar ad campaign, and giving away thousands of the devices... yes, it sold very well.

Go figure.  I know two people who own them, and both have small children who are the ones who play with it.

I own one. I can say that its definitely easier to make casual kid-friendly titles for it or rather, I should say easily accessible titles.

Ex- I played Fruit Ninja Kinect with my mom. She loved it even though she got exhausted rather quickly, and asked if we could play again.

But to use Kinect for the more "hardcore" titles and franchises, more work needs to be put into it. They won't figure it out unless they actually try to, so in a way, Kinect 2.0 can actually help out now that everyone with an X1 will have it.

Speaking of, http://www.vgchartz....june-15th-2013/

Don't know how truthful this is, but hey. There you go. Numbers are DEFINITELY gonna change after the dropping of DRM now.

Modifié par LPPrince, 21 juin 2013 - 03:58 .

[AresKeith]

ShepnTali wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Seems Orth and Microsoft share the same opinion on trying to spite everyone and dismiss the fact that they were gigantic jerkasses to anyone who had legitimate concerns.

Yes, the dealwithit motto essentially carried on without Orth, until Microsoft got a reality check. Now it's turned into passive agressive swipes. Now for another reality check big M... you'll now sell more boxes, so just flow.

We saved them from becoming South Park's version of Smug lol

[Bekkael]

Greylycantrope wrote...

Interesting if true. If anything it makes me glad the share system wasn't implemented. Sorry to crush your dreams alleged Microsoft guy.

Awwwwww. Poor little employee is sad because the stupid consumers won't play nice.

[Bekkael]

ShepnTali wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Seems Orth and Microsoft share the same opinion on trying to spite everyone and dismiss the fact that they were gigantic jerkasses to anyone who had legitimate concerns.

Yes, the dealwithit motto essentially carried on without Orth, until Microsoft got a reality check. Now it's turned into passive aggressive swipes. Now for another reality check big M... you'll now sell more boxes, so just flow.

Hmm. More than they otherwise would if they did no reversal, but many former customers have lost trust over all this X1 stuff. That trust will be difficult to regain, and in the longrun it may even be impossible. Only time and sales will tell the whole story.

Honestly, with all the hostile-to-consumers stuff from Microsoft, and all the dev whimpering over Twitter about how evil used games are destroying the industry, I'm ashamed to be a gamer lately.

If open war is ever truly declared on used games and consumer rights are lost, I will happily play my old games and otherwise walk away from this hobby that has moved from simple enjoyment to stress and annoyance. Who honestly needs more stress in their lives? Not me.

[Splinter Cell 108]

Serves M$ right, maybe they should try to stop copying Steam, Apple and Google and focus in what they're good. I just don't get it, this scenario has repeated itself so many times, lets see, Zune, Windows Phone, Windows 8,etc. This time they truly paid the price for it though, I just don't understand how many times this needs to happen to M$ to learn their lesson.

[Cyonan]

Bekkael wrote...

Hmm. More than they otherwise would if they did no reversal, but many former customers have lost trust over all this X1 stuff. That trust will be difficult to regain, and in the longrun it may even be impossible. Only time and sales will tell the whole story.

Honestly, with all the hostile-to-consumers stuff from Microsoft, and all the dev whimpering over Twitter about how evil used games are destroying the industry, I'm ashamed to be a gamer lately.

If open war is ever truly declared on used games and consumer rights are lost, I will happily play my old games and otherwise walk away from this hobby that has moved from simple enjoyment to stress and annoyance. Who honestly needs more stress in their lives? Not me.

The sad thing is that if the X1 does tank at this point, this will just be used as an excuse in the future to not listen to the consumers because "You still aren't going to buy it anyway". I still hope it does well for that, plus the fact that it is never a good thing for the consumer to have one company dominate the market, and the WiiU isn't exactly doing great right now.

Though we forgot about a lot of stuff Sony did, so who knows if we'll still be hating Microsoft for this 6 months from now.

As far as used games go, it will happen like the PC I would imagine. No war will be declared, they'll just die one day in the name of going fully digital like Steam, Origin, GoG, etc.

They just need to figure out how to properly implement it in a way that doesn't make it sound and act like terrible DRM.

[Bekkael]

Cyonan wrote...

Bekkael wrote...

Hmm. More than they otherwise would if they did no reversal, but many former customers have lost trust over all this X1 stuff. That trust will be difficult to regain, and in the longrun it may even be impossible. Only time and sales will tell the whole story.

Honestly, with all the hostile-to-consumers stuff from Microsoft, and all the dev whimpering over Twitter about how evil used games are destroying the industry, I'm ashamed to be a gamer lately.

If open war is ever truly declared on used games and consumer rights are lost, I will happily play my old games and otherwise walk away from this hobby that has moved from simple enjoyment to stress and annoyance. Who honestly needs more stress in their lives? Not me.

The sad thing is that if the X1 does tank at this point, this will just be used as an excuse in the future to not listen to the consumers because "You still aren't going to buy it anyway". I still hope it does well for that, plus the fact that it is never a good thing for the consumer to have one company dominate the market, and the WiiU isn't exactly doing great right now.

Though we forgot about a lot of stuff Sony did, so who knows if we'll still be hating Microsoft for this 6 months from now.

As far as used games go, it will happen like the PC I would imagine. No war will be declared, they'll just die one day in the name of going fully digital like Steam, Origin, GoG, etc.

They just need to figure out how to properly implement it in a way that doesn't make it sound and act like terrible DRM.

I'm all for competition. It's good for the consumer, and as far as I care, that's the only thing that matters. If ANY company thinks they can do whatever they like without regard to the consumer, then I will boycott them and urge all friends and aquaintances to join me in putting them out of business. Another company is likely to step in with a product that actually offers what people want.

No company deserves to survive if they forget the #1 driving principle of any type of sales: the customer is always right.

[OdanUrr]

Cyonan wrote...

As far as used games go, it will happen like the PC I would imagine. No war will be declared, they'll just die one day in the name of going fully digital like Steam, Origin, GoG, etc.

They just need to figure out how to properly implement it in a way that doesn't make it sound and act like terrible DRM.

The way to do it is by encouraging people to buy games digitally. Do not remove the choice of buying a physical copy of the game, be it used or new, but make it more attractive to the consumer to go digital. The family sharing idea could've worked as an incentive, IF it had been used as we interpreted and not as that one-hour demo. They'd also need to incorporate digital sales after GOG or Steam and, perhaps most important of all, they need to go worldwide on their digital distribution market. As far as I know, both Steam and GOG are available pretty much everywhere in the world and charge always in U.S. Dollars for any title.

Once you have all these factors in play you'll get a lot of people going digital not because they have to but because they want to. And that's what Microsoft needs to understand, that it's always better to persuade people to do something rather than force them to do it.

[Volus Warlord]

Homebound wrote...

AshedMan wrote...

GodWood wrote...

Mob Rules: The Destructive Power of Opinion and Online Community

Adam Orth To Give Speech On Online Toxicity

Sounds like it's going to be one big boohoo, woe-is-me event.  

Would be interesting to see what he has to say. But I get the impression that this is in response to advertisement's inability to BS the internet as it has done in the past b4 hand.

Anyways, speaking of destructive power of opinion, due to Xbox one's hilarious failure, Microsoft is switching off the DRM shenanigans they were planning on shoving down nextgen xbox users' throats.

I cant help think these two things and this presentation are related.

Maybe he should title it "How to Lose a Decent Job by being a D-Bag on Twitter"

[MarchWaltz]

I like Nintendo's statement of used games:

"If game companies made good games, consumers wouldn't want to sell them."

Which...is kinda true. I will never sell my Mass Effect, my Tales Of games, my resident evil games, and most of all, any of my metal gear games. Ever.

I have the ps2 version of Snake Eater. I also have it on the 360. There is NO reason for me to have the PS2 copy. But I will NEVER sell it. Same for Metal Gear 1.

I'm sure yall have a game series you will never sell.

Modifié par MarchWaltz, 21 juin 2013 - 05:22 .

[Bekkael]

MarchWaltz wrote...

I like Nintendo's statement of used games:

"If game companies made good games, they wouldn't want to sell them."

Which...is kinda true. I will never sell my Mass Effect, my Tales Of games, my resident evil games, and most of all, any of my metal gear games. Ever.

I have the ps2 version of Snake Eater. I also have it on the 360. There is NO reason for me to have the PS2 copy. But I will NEVER sell it. Same for Metal Gear 1.

I'm sure yall have a game series you will never sell.

Try all of them.

I have never sold any of my games after purchase. I did once return a game when it crossed the line for me of TSTL (Enchanted Arms), but that's it. When I buy a game I keep it forever because I like having an extensive game library, just as I like owning all kinds of books.

However, just because I don't personally sell my games doesn't mean I don't believe in the right of any gamer to keep or dispose of their games however they choose. Whether by Gamestop, ebay, Craig's List, yard sale or whatever, they have the right to do as they like with their belongings.

[Volus Warlord]

Bekkael wrote...

MarchWaltz wrote...

I like Nintendo's statement of used games:

"If game companies made good games, they wouldn't want to sell them."

Which...is kinda true. I will never sell my Mass Effect, my Tales Of games, my resident evil games, and most of all, any of my metal gear games. Ever.

I have the ps2 version of Snake Eater. I also have it on the 360. There is NO reason for me to have the PS2 copy. But I will NEVER sell it. Same for Metal Gear 1.

I'm sure yall have a game series you will never sell.

Try all of them.

I have never sold any of my games after purchase. I did once return a game when it crossed the line for me of TSTL (Enchanted Arms), but that's it. When I buy a game I keep it forever because I like having an extensive game library, just as I like owning all kinds of books.

However, just because I don't personally sell my games doesn't mean I don't believe in the right of any gamer to keep or dispose of their games however they choose. Whether by Gamestop, ebay, Craig's List, yard sale or whatever, they have the right to do as they like with their belongings.

I re-sell damn near everything and rarely buy new:)

I only hold to stuff I really, really love.

[ShepnTali]

Bekkael wrote...

ShepnTali wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Seems Orth and Microsoft share the same opinion on trying to spite everyone and dismiss the fact that they were gigantic jerkasses to anyone who had legitimate concerns.

Yes, the dealwithit motto essentially carried on without Orth, until Microsoft got a reality check. Now it's turned into passive aggressive swipes. Now for another reality check big M... you'll now sell more boxes, so just flow.

Hmm. More than they otherwise would if they did no reversal, but many former customers have lost trust over all this X1 stuff. That trust will be difficult to regain, and in the longrun it may even be impossible. Only time and sales will tell the whole story.

Honestly, with all the hostile-to-consumers stuff from Microsoft, and all the dev whimpering over Twitter about how evil used games are destroying the industry, I'm ashamed to be a gamer lately.

If open war is ever truly declared on used games and consumer rights are lost, I will happily play my old games and otherwise walk away from this hobby that has moved from simple enjoyment to stress and annoyance. Who honestly needs more stress in their lives? Not me.

If you get too disgruntled, Join the wonderful boardgame revolution! Check out boardgamegeek.com, and get lost in all the awesome variety.

[Ravensword]

Volus Warlord wrote...

Homebound wrote...

AshedMan wrote...

GodWood wrote...

Mob Rules: The Destructive Power of Opinion and Online Community

Adam Orth To Give Speech On Online Toxicity

Sounds like it's going to be one big boohoo, woe-is-me event.  

Would be interesting to see what he has to say. But I get the impression that this is in response to advertisement's inability to BS the internet as it has done in the past b4 hand.

Anyways, speaking of destructive power of opinion, due to Xbox one's hilarious failure, Microsoft is switching off the DRM shenanigans they were planning on shoving down nextgen xbox users' throats.

I cant help think these two things and this presentation are related.

Maybe he should title it "How to Lose a Decent Job by being a D-Bag on Twitter"

Lol. Yeah. He totally deserved to lose his job for his yuppie, corporate douchebaggery. Should Don "TVTVTVTVTV" Mattrick follow behind as well?

[Bekkael]

Volus Warlord wrote...
I re-sell damn near everything and rarely buy new:)

I only hold to stuff I really, really love.

I admit I have a case of aquisitiveness when it comes to games. I do buy used all the games that I am not automatically assured to love, so that does save me lots. All BioWare games get pre-ordered, as well as any Elder Scrolls or Bethesda game I like the look of, or any other RPG that looks like fun to me (Fable series, KOA: Reckoning).

If I had to pay $60 for every game I own, I wouldn't have 1/4 the number of games that I do. If used games disappeared, it just means I'll be spending less money, not more.

[Cyonan]

Bekkael wrote...
I'm all for competition. It's good for the consumer, and as far as I care, that's the only thing that matters. If ANY company thinks they can do whatever they like without regard to the consumer, then I will boycott them and urge all friends and aquaintances to join me in putting them out of business. Another company is likely to step in with a product that actually offers what people want.

No company deserves to survive if they forget the #1 driving principle of any type of sales: the customer is always right.

Actually the whole "the customer is always right" thing was a sales pitch that was just made up a long time ago, it's not actually true.

Customers often say they want one thing, but actually want something different.

Microsoft just didn't get that what customers said in this case was in fact actually what they wanted, no restrictions in terms of online connection and used games, or maybe they just thought they could get away with it and it backfired on them.

[Bekkael]

ShepnTali wrote...
If you get too disgruntled, Join the wonderful boardgame revolution! Check out boardgamegeek.com, and get lost in all the awesome variety.

Are those digital games, or physical? I don't buy physical games anymore after years of children losing pieces/parts. I still have a 4 year old, so it will be a few more years until I would attempt to buy physical games again.