4196 réponses à ce sujet

[Cyonan]

Bekkael wrote...

I think you are incorrect. Lots of people hated on Valve/Steam earlier on. I think their frequent low prices and huge sales mollified enough people for the outrage to die down, and they have other features that PC folks seem to really enjoy. I don't for one second believe Microsoft would follow that model of very low prices or allowing modding or whatever else would make their community happy.

PR means nothing. You can spin crap seven different ways, but it will still be crap.

Let me be clear: I was VERY devoted to Xbox before the X1 reveal. In this very thread, I have gone through the various stages of grief and felt like I was losing a decade-long friend of the family. No one could have been more disappointed by their policies than I was.

I was just as prepared (as so many others) to listen to Sony announce that they were doing the same thing. I was ready to go to Wii U for crying out loud!

I've never owned any console but Xbox (well, I own a Wii, but does that really count?)  but I now embrace Sony as my new gaming partner. As long as Sony stays on the current course of gamer friendly policies, then they can have my money. Whichever company offers me the best gaming console with the least restrictions, that's where I'll go. I have no brand loyalty. Not anymore. Microsoft made sure of it.

The Wii actually sold more units than both the Xbox 360 and PS3 so I imagine it does count.

When Steam first came out, there actually wasn't a store so they didn't win people over with lower pricing until much later.

Not having brand loyalty is overall a good thing in my opinion. Microsoft only did this because they thought brand loyalty would let them get away with it. Without that you can't get away with screwing your customers as easily.

I'm still considering getting a Wii U.

[billy the squid]

 MerinTB.

Monopoly charges? How about the largest fine in the history of the EU Competition Commission! Over 1.4 BILLION Euros. It's that kind of behavior which is synonymous with MS and why no one trusts enough to give them benefit of the doubt.

Modifié par billy the squid, 21 juin 2013 - 07:31 .

[MerinTB]

billy the squid wrote...
 MerinTB.

Monopoly charges? How about the largest fine in the history of the EU Competition Commission! Over 1.4 BILLION Euros. It's that kind of behavior which is synonymous with MS and why no one trusts enough to give them benefit of the doubt.

I'm confused.  Did you think I was somehow DEFENDING Microsoft's business practices?  MS is at least as bad as Apple.

MS has been subject to many monopoly charges.  Most didn't actually go against them... hence my word choice.

[billy the squid]

MerinTB wrote...

billy the squid wrote...
 MerinTB.

Monopoly charges? How about the largest fine in the history of the EU Competition Commission! Over 1.4 BILLION Euros. It's that kind of behavior which is synonymous with MS and why no one trusts enough to give them benefit of the doubt.

I'm confused.  Did you think I was somehow DEFENDING Microsoft's business practices?  MS is at least as bad as Apple.

MS has been subject to many monopoly charges.  Most didn't actually go against them... hence my word choice.

Lol, no I wasn't confused, it's more than just charges, it was actually ruled that they were guilty of monopolystic practices, at least in that case.

[Bekkael]

Cyonan wrote...

Bekkael wrote...

I think you are incorrect. Lots of people hated on Valve/Steam earlier on. I think their frequent low prices and huge sales mollified enough people for the outrage to die down, and they have other features that PC folks seem to really enjoy. I don't for one second believe Microsoft would follow that model of very low prices or allowing modding or whatever else would make their community happy.

PR means nothing. You can spin crap seven different ways, but it will still be crap.

Let me be clear: I was VERY devoted to Xbox before the X1 reveal. In this very thread, I have gone through the various stages of grief and felt like I was losing a decade-long friend of the family. No one could have been more disappointed by their policies than I was.

I was just as prepared (as so many others) to listen to Sony announce that they were doing the same thing. I was ready to go to Wii U for crying out loud!

I've never owned any console but Xbox (well, I own a Wii, but does that really count?)  but I now embrace Sony as my new gaming partner. As long as Sony stays on the current course of gamer friendly policies, then they can have my money. Whichever company offers me the best gaming console with the least restrictions, that's where I'll go. I have no brand loyalty. Not anymore. Microsoft made sure of it.

The Wii actually sold more units than both the Xbox 360 and PS3 so I imagine it does count.

When Steam first came out, there actually wasn't a store so they didn't win people over with lower pricing until much later.

Not having brand loyalty is overall a good thing in my opinion. Microsoft only did this because they thought brand loyalty would let them get away with it. Without that you can't get away with screwing your customers as easily.

I'm still considering getting a Wii U.

The reason for my saying the Wii doesn't count, is that I have never actually played a game on it. It was bought for my children, and they are the ones that use it. My consoles for personal use were the original xbox, and the 360. It's very likely that we will also get a Wii U sometime in the future. I generally enjoy Nintendo's products, so have no problem supporting them when the price is right. As far as hand-held devices go, my family likes Nintendo best. Sony has a very nice device, but it's just too rich for my blood.

I will readily admit I am mostly ignorant concerning Steam. I only ever downloaded it and Origin because of free game offers from EA when I bought one BioWare game or another. I think the only thing I have with Origin is the free copy of ME2. I haven't given them a cent of my money, and don't intend to. Two of my sons are ardent PC gamers, and everything I buy on Steam or GOG is with them in mind.

The only loyalty that makes sense is loyalty to your own wallet. Companies look to their own interest, and it's a foolish consumer who doesn't do the same for themselves.

[MerinTB]

billy the squid wrote...

MerinTB wrote...

billy the squid wrote...
 MerinTB.

Monopoly charges? How about the largest fine in the history of the EU Competition Commission! Over 1.4 BILLION Euros. It's that kind of behavior which is synonymous with MS and why no one trusts enough to give them benefit of the doubt.

I'm confused.  Did you think I was somehow DEFENDING Microsoft's business practices?  MS is at least as bad as Apple.

MS has been subject to many monopoly charges.  Most didn't actually go against them... hence my word choice.

Lol, no I wasn't confused, it's more than just charges, it was actually ruled that they were guilty of monopolystic practices, at least in that case.

You remember when it was ruled that their bundling Internet Explorer with Windows was monopolistic, a case won by Netscape?
Where is Netscape now?
Did IE stop being bundled with Windows (or just become, more or less, the skin that Windows runs through?)
And what positive did that ruling get us?  Forced pre-installs of alternatives, like AOL, Realplayer, and Roxio.  Ooooooo, that was a good win for PC users.

So it lost legal battles.  But those loses didn't stop them one iota.

[MerinTB]

Bekkael wrote...
I will readily admit I am mostly ignorant concerning Steam. I only ever downloaded it and Origin because of free game offers from EA when I bought one BioWare game or another. I think the only thing I have with Origin is the free copy of ME2. I haven't given them a cent of my money, and don't intend to. Two of my sons are ardent PC gamers, and everything I buy on Steam or GOG is with them in mind.

I have Origin for two games - the free download of PC ME2 (because of my DA2 purchase) and because KoA:R, that I bought from Amazon, required it to be installed.  It is a major drag on my playing KoA:R that I have to keep shutting off Origin when I am done. :/

Bekkael wrote...
The only loyalty that makes sense is loyalty to your own wallet. Companies look to their own interest, and it's a foolish consumer who doesn't do the same for themselves.

That kind of cynicism comes across to many like realism, but it's actually as misguided as believing all companies are looking out for you.
You have to take companies business by business.  Sure, bigger monoliths are much more likely to be doing the bad practices, but it's not a rule.
There are legitimate, business and bottom-line reasons for companies to give a lot of consideration to their customers.  Some businesses internalize those reasons, whether just for maximizing profitability or because some of them still have souls.

You can find companies that treat their customers well as a matter of policy, because (for one reason) they see it as sound business practice.

[Bekkael]

MerinTB wrote...

*snip*

Bekkael wrote...
The only loyalty that makes sense is loyalty to your own wallet. Companies look to their own interest, and it's a foolish consumer who doesn't do the same for themselves.

That kind of cynicism comes across to many like realism, but it's actually as misguided as believing all companies are looking out for you.
You have to take companies business by business.  Sure, bigger monoliths are much more likely to be doing the bad practices, but it's not a rule.
There are legitimate, business and bottom-line reasons for companies to give a lot of consideration to their customers.  Some businesses internalize those reasons, whether just for maximizing profitability or because some of them still have souls.

You can find companies that treat their customers well as a matter of policy, because (for one reason) they see it as sound business practice.

If I am cynical, it is because dealing with modern companies has made me so. I am a very honest, tell-it-like-it-is kind of person, and experience has molded my expectations into what they are. It's silly to expect a business, especially a giant corporation like MS to be concerned with an individual. Nor do I think they are. They are concerned with their bottom line and what makes them money, just as the majority of businesses are. Anything else is incidental.

I am concerned with the well-being of my family and friends, because frankly my dear, businesses don't give a damn.

[billy the squid]

MerinTB wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

MerinTB wrote...

billy the squid wrote...
 MerinTB.

Monopoly charges? How about the largest fine in the history of the EU Competition Commission! Over 1.4 BILLION Euros. It's that kind of behavior which is synonymous with MS and why no one trusts enough to give them benefit of the doubt.

I'm confused.  Did you think I was somehow DEFENDING Microsoft's business practices?  MS is at least as bad as Apple.

MS has been subject to many monopoly charges.  Most didn't actually go against them... hence my word choice.

Lol, no I wasn't confused, it's more than just charges, it was actually ruled that they were guilty of monopolystic practices, at least in that case.

You remember when it was ruled that their bundling Internet Explorer with Windows was monopolistic, a case won by Netscape?
Where is Netscape now?
Did IE stop being bundled with Windows (or just become, more or less, the skin that Windows runs through?)
And what positive did that ruling get us?  Forced pre-installs of alternatives, like AOL, Realplayer, and Roxio.  Ooooooo, that was a good win for PC users.

So it lost legal battles.  But those loses didn't stop them one iota.

Yeah, they got fined 651 million Euros by the Competition Comission for that one too.

It really seems that whenever MS enters the EU, it ends up in trouble with the competition commission. The main thing with that case was it couldn't block other software developers from installing their software via Windows, hence the different case which got them slapped with a 1.4 billion euro fine. 

If Microsoft could get away with it, they'd block Google Chrome and Firefox if they could. Luckily they can't so it's probably why they use crappy Bing on the 360.

[ViSeiRa]

Bekkael wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

Interesting if true. If anything it makes me glad the share system wasn't implemented. Sorry to crush your dreams alleged Microsoft guy.

Awwwwww. Poor little employee is sad because the stupid consumers won't play nice.

Because an anonymous post on Pastebin is to be trusted, right?

Aaron Greenberg Chief of Staff for Interactive Entertainment Business at Microsoft just denounced this on Twitter and said there was no limit whatsoever.

It's sad to see such a "game changing" feature go away.

[redBadger14]

Oh boy: http://www.examiner....-one-price-drop

[ViSeiRa]

redBadger14 wrote...

Oh boy: http://www.examiner....-one-price-drop

Update (6/21/13): Turns out the initial e-mails were the result of a typo. I have contacted Microsoft support, and they have sent the following regarding the Xbox One needing Kinect in order to function.

"This rumor is untrue and was an unfortunate copy/paste mistake by a
member of our team. We’d greatly appreciate you running the correction
below as an update to your story to help quell this rumor and shutdown
the false cycle."

[ShepnTali]

redBadger14 wrote...

Oh boy: http://www.examiner....-one-price-drop

It was corrected pretty quick.

"This rumor is untrue and was an unfortunate copy/paste mistake by a member of our team. We’d greatly appreciate you running the correction below as an update to your story to help quell this rumor and shutdown the false cycle."

[HiroVoid]

ViSeirA wrote...

Bekkael wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

Interesting if true. If anything it makes me glad the share system wasn't implemented. Sorry to crush your dreams alleged Microsoft guy.

Awwwwww. Poor little employee is sad because the stupid consumers won't play nice.

Because an anonymous post on Pastebin is to be trusted, right?

Aaron Greenberg Chief of Staff for Interactive Entertainment Business at Microsoft just denounced this on Twitter and said there was no limit whatsoever.

It's sad to see such a "game changing" feature go away.

It was also confirmed by CBoat who has been an insider giving correct information almost all of the time.

[ViSeiRa]

HiroVoid wrote...

ViSeirA wrote...

Bekkael wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

Interesting if true. If anything it makes me glad the share system wasn't implemented. Sorry to crush your dreams alleged Microsoft guy.

Awwwwww. Poor little employee is sad because the stupid consumers won't play nice.

Because an anonymous post on Pastebin is to be trusted, right?

Aaron Greenberg Chief of Staff for Interactive Entertainment Business at Microsoft just denounced this on Twitter and said there was no limit whatsoever.

It's sad to see such a "game changing" feature go away.

It was also confirmed by CBoat who has been an insider giving correct information almost all of the time.

I know, but he has been misinformed before hasn't he? the PS4's 4 GB limit on GGDR5 memory is the most recent that comes to mind... maybe the time limit was considered at one point, doesn't mean it was going into the final product.

Modifié par ViSeirA, 21 juin 2013 - 08:47 .

[billy the squid]

ViSeirA wrote...

HiroVoid wrote...

ViSeirA wrote...

Bekkael wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

Interesting if true. If anything it makes me glad the share system wasn't implemented. Sorry to crush your dreams alleged Microsoft guy.

Awwwwww. Poor little employee is sad because the stupid consumers won't play nice.

Because an anonymous post on Pastebin is to be trusted, right?

Aaron Greenberg Chief of Staff for Interactive Entertainment Business at Microsoft just denounced this on Twitter and said there was no limit whatsoever.

It's sad to see such a "game changing" feature go away.

It was also confirmed by CBoat who has been an insider giving correct information almost all of the time.

I know, but he has been misinformed before hasn't he? the PS4's 4 GB limit on GGDR5 memory is the most recent that comes to mind... maybe the time limit was considered at one point, doesn't mean it was going into the final product.

Mis informed? On PS4's moving development target, out of date more like. 

Think about this for one second. MS a company which attempted to kill the used game industry with it's latest bout of restrictions and publishers bemoaning the used games market, hurting the business, are going to allow people to share their game, for free, with up to 10 people on their friends list?

Do you honestly believe that? As it's entirely counter productive when compared to their plans for used games.

Modifié par billy the squid, 21 juin 2013 - 09:01 .

[MerinTB]

ShepnTali wrote...

redBadger14 wrote...

Oh boy: http://www.examiner....-one-price-drop

It was corrected pretty quick.

"This rumor is untrue and was an unfortunate copy/paste mistake by a member of our team. We’d greatly appreciate you running the correction below as an update to your story to help quell this rumor and shutdown the false cycle."

Dang it.

I was almost going to go like "huh, well, with no Kinect and a bit cheaper..."

But that commitment to all games having Kinect functionality just makes me less interested in Xbox exclusives.  I DO NOT WANT AND WILL NOT USE A KINECT.  I play video games to relax, not excerise.

They aren't going to wait me out and win me over.  It won't happen.  I may be inconsequential to them, but I know I'm not alone in being absolutely turned off by motion sensors and cameras for gaming.

[ShepnTali]

"...but I know I'm not alone in being absolutely turned off by motion sensors and cameras for gaming."


I'm in your club.

[redBadger14]

Too bad that rumor wasn't true.

[LPPrince]

Kinect doesn't force you to get up and move around. You can in fact play by using your voice and using some motion control while still seated.

[MerinTB]

LPPrince wrote...
Kinect doesn't force you to get up and move around. You can in fact play by using your voice and using some motion control while still seated.

I dislike talking on phones, let alone to machines.

And I can't stand the Wii-mote.

Waving my hands like a jack****?  No thank you.

Heck, I even really dislike touch screens.

Not.  For.  Me.

Enjoy it if you like it.  Not telling anyone else they are wrong for liking it.

I want a keyboard and mouse.  Barring that, a controller in my hands (that I don't have to wave around - I like sticks and buttons) will do just dandy.

Let's not even get into having a three year old running around with naptimes and early bed times in our tiny apartment, or my wife trying to sleep.  Yes, I need voice commands so I don't have to push buttons like I need louder external speakers instead of my headphones so my family can't get any rest at the time I actually get to play games.

Modifié par MerinTB, 21 juin 2013 - 09:44 .

[LPPrince]

http://www.ign.com/a...e-order-records

[Phoenix_Fyre]

Can someone tell me the PS4 games vs. the XB1...games?

I actually owned PS1, PS2, Xbox, and the 360... I like both machines...but not what I'm hearing about this...Xbox....One?

I mean I'm a HUGE fan of Kingdom Hearts, and Final Fantasy, and while I play ME and DA on 360.....

I don't know you guys.....

[LPPrince]

http://www.ign.com/w..._Xbox_One_Games

http://www.gamesrada...nounced-so-far/

Wish I found lists from the same place.

Herp, there we go

http://www.gamesrada...xbox-one-games/

Modifié par LPPrince, 21 juin 2013 - 11:01 .

[ShepnTali]

Phoenix_Fyre wrote...

Can someone tell me the PS4 games vs. the XB1...games?

I actually owned PS1, PS2, Xbox, and the 360... I like both machines...but not what I'm hearing about this...Xbox....One?

I mean I'm a HUGE fan of Kingdom Hearts, and Final Fantasy, and while I play ME and DA on 360.....

I don't know you guys.....

Fairly similar, but PS4 will probably take it again for RPGs, if that's your thing.