4196 réponses à ce sujet

[The Love Runner]

The politics of gaming never cease to amaze me. It's all about being properly informed and making a choice of what system. It's never wrong to think twice if you're unsure.

There's no doubt that the industry will continue to change depending on what the consumers want and how well both Xbox One and PS4 will perform.

[AresKeith]

Splinter Cell 108 wrote...

Salamander Soup wrote...

Microsoft could announce Xbox urinates in your cereal and their fanboys would bow down and worship it.

But why? Why are there people who will bow down to whatever piece of **** they are given? I don't get it, is it because they can't admit that they are wrong, are they stupid or is there some mysterious reason as to why anyone would accept any of this?

I don't really understand it either

[AManwithaMoustache]

I believe that Microsoft is trying to strike the right balance between pleasing the customers who buy their product and the developers who create their product. It's never a bad idea to consider both sides desires.

[MarchWaltz]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

So where do you guys think the X1 stands now that you can turn the kinect off, and many of the restrictions on the games are lifted? Is Microsoft on even ground with Sony?

From what I know, the Kinect isn't really "off" and the hardware is not as good as the PS4's.

Also, PS4 is cheaper.

Choice seems logical, captain.

[LPPrince]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

So where do you guys think the X1 stands now that you can turn the kinect off, and many of the restrictions on the games are lifted? Is Microsoft on even ground with Sony?

I'd say yeah, even ground. Pick what you want, and no one should judge you for it(though people will regardless).

The way I like to see it, both consoles are $399, but X1 comes with Kinect 2.0 right outta the gate for an extra $100, which I'm cool with.

If I was worried about people watching/recording me I wouldn't have a cell phone or a webcam on my notebook. I'm good.

[BouncyFrag]

I'm sticking with Xbox. Not so keen on MS going pee pee in my cereal though. Nothing like console wars to get the gaming entitlement brigade riled up and hating on how anonymous people on the net spend their own money. I can see how people who wanted MS to fail are now a bit sore that such a dream won't be happening anytime soon.

[Ravensword]

BouncyFrag wrote...

I'm sticking with Xbox. Not so keen on MS going pee pee in my cereal though. Nothing like console wars to get the gaming entitlement brigade riled up and hating on how anonymous people on the net spend their own money. I can see how people who wanted MS to fail are now a bit sore that such a dream won't be happening anytime soon.

Much like people have been saying that Nintendo is going to fail since the last decade or so? Also, I don't see how the last sentence follows the rest of your idea, unless it's b/c you're an Xbox fanboy.

In any event, it doesn't really matter. Consumers were able to force Microsoft to abandon their ambition of killing the used game market, and it was fun watching Microsoft take a beating for it as well.

[BouncyFrag]

So, any chance the new consoles can utilize pc mods? Wishful thinking but it doesn't hurt to ask.

[BouncyFrag]

Ravensword wrote...

BouncyFrag wrote...

I'm sticking with Xbox. Not so keen on MS going pee pee in my cereal though. Nothing like console wars to get the gaming entitlement brigade riled up and hating on how anonymous people on the net spend their own money. I can see how people who wanted MS to fail are now a bit sore that such a dream won't be happening anytime soon.

Much like people have been saying that Nintendo is going to fail since the last decade or so? Also, I don't see how the last sentence follows the rest of your idea, unless it's b/c you're an Xbox fanboy.

In any event, it doesn't really matter. Consumers were able to force Microsoft to abandon their ambition of killing the used game market, and it was fun watching Microsoft take a beating for it as well.

Not really. I'm just poking fun at the insults being directed at people who would like to get the new xbox. MS deserves all the hate and bad PR over this whole affair, but mocking people for merely being interested in the new console could also be construed as a fanboyish statement.

[billy the squid]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

So where do you guys think the X1 stands now that you can turn the kinect off, and many of the restrictions on the games are lifted? Is Microsoft on even ground with Sony?

No, I think they burned a lot of bridges and pissed people off, many of them have already jumped ship to the PS4, the early uptakers will determine the drive of the product's growth, and they have shifted towards Sony. With a larger initial base the growth becomes exponetial in nature, so you'll see a higher rate of uptake after the Christmas period due to a larger initial base. That is providing Sony doesn't do anything to mess things up.

[billy the squid]

J. Reezy wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

Phoenix_Fyre wrote...

Ah. Well I don't know much about Playstation's online network like I know Xbox Live

so I assume we pay monthly fees for ESO?

I'm not actually sure. Maybe, but I don't think that you do with Destiny, that's covered by the PSN plus charge of £1.75 a month for online play. I haven't seen any info relating to monthly charges from the games themselves on either the X1 or PS4, but it's a good idea to keep an eye out. 

I don't think you can apply PSN's pay to play set up with Destiny. That's Sony's thing, not Bungie/Activision's thing.

Well I don't think Destiny will require a subscription, at least the little that's know has indicated it won't, but I'll be waiting for more info. It's rather sketchy at the moment. ESO, I've no idea. Both have been fairly vague on the details of a subscription plan, if any.

[MerinTB]

ViSeirA wrote...

MerinTB wrote...

ViSeirA wrote...
Welcome to the "I'm dismayed MSFT backed down and reversed their policies and vision" club... it's truly a loss for this next-gen generation to still be mired in previous-gen limitations such as disk-based games and disk-based rental and swapping culture.

Anyone willing to go at it with me? I can easily illustrate how MSFT's original model is superior to the one a lot of gamers are currently clinging to.

Absolutely willing.

You won't find a bigger proponent of going fully digital than me.  One of my contentions is that Xbox One, especially if it had this "vision of this digital future", should have had NO disc drive.

So go ahead - tell me how their policies were "good" for the "future."

It must have a disc drive... change comes gradually, and they wanted to do this by making discs just a medium for carrying the data, and my conversation with billy has all what I think about what's good in it, read them if you will and get back to me, try to avoid using his arguments though... they're kinda sorta definitely burned.

No, it does NOT need a disc drive.  Hand helds don't.  Nintendo has NEVER used traditional discs.

What was the number one selling gaming device of it's time?  The DS.  The DS, in fact, is historically only outsold by the PS2.  The DS existed in the DVD disc era.

What is the best selling console of the DVD era (not counting the DS) - the Wii.  Again, no DVD dics.  Yes, discs, but proprietary discs  and the Wii cannot play other kinds of disc.

The belief that the next gen of consoles needs disc drives is a fallacy based on "that's what the PS3 and X360 have."  Smartphones, tablets, laptops, PC's - all use digital downloaded games as the majority (for some, only) games.  No discs on those phones, right?  The Ouya is one of the biggest Kickstarters ever - and it's based on a discless, digital download model.

We have Netflix and Pay per View for movies, Amazon Instant Video and Vudu and Crackle,  Music has gone almost completely discless - and books, magazines, newspapers and comic books have already turned the corner.

Microsoft COULD have made their "this is the future, and we are the looking forward" argument by having no disc drive.  Some people would have been upset, sure.  But face it - there will ALWAYS be SOME people upset.  But the lack of a drive would have been the "force into digital" that would have worked.  Still having the drive was the mistake if they wanted to push the digital.

Ease into?  Xbox Live has been around for 8 years.  Most of that time you could buy stuff digitally on the system. Wii and PS3 have similar set-ups.  There are people who love this already.

What was missing is HDD size for downloading stuff.  Replacing the blu-ray with a 1 TB drive would have been a much smarter build for the digital model.

Why couldn't they ditch the drive?  I do believe that they want to go to the digital future, yes - while also believing they are trying to sqeeuze more money out of customers AND kill the second hand market (not Gamestop, but e-bay, friend sales, etc.)  So why stick with the drive, a Sony drive no-less?  Because Microsoft has had this "center of the living room" stiff-member since the last century with WebTV and Media Center.  They wanted to have people use their device to watch DVD and blu-rays on.  Cut into other digital device markets (why buy a stand-alone DVD player when I have my One?), cut into Sony's market (I can play blu-rays on my 1, so I don't need a PS4  or Sony Blu-ray drive... yes, Sony still gets the royalties) AND try and get non-gamers to look at it and say "hmmm - that blu-ray player and that Roku and that TIVO, or the Xbox One...."

Their policies that were hated weren't the digital policies - it was the fact that they were going to sell disc games but the game discs were glorified installers that became useless afterwards, and the once a day check in.

(People have problem with the Kinect (like me) as well, and other things, but let's look at where the major uproar was and what they reversed here.)

Had they gone all-digital, no discs... there wouldn't have been the "we can't sell our game discs we bought, or loan them, even though they are physical items we bought and we have the First Sales doctrine on our side."  Would a debate about digital sharing and selling happened?  Sure, but that's happening ANYWAY.

As for this - try to avoid using his arguments though... they're kinda sorta definitely burned. - I absolutely disagree.  Because you don't find them compelling, eh, sorry, you aren't the arbiter of what is a good or bad argument. 

Modifié par MerinTB, 23 juin 2013 - 05:45 .

[MerinTB]

The Mad Hanar wrote...
So where do you guys think the X1 stands now that you can turn the kinect off, and many of the restrictions on the games are lifted? Is Microsoft on even ground with Sony?

Not even ground, per se.

You have Sony fanboys and Xbox fanboys.  Most of this stuff doesn't phase them.

The Kinect and/or price is a sticking point for many.  As is the more powerful hardware on the Playstation.

Coming in cold, if everything else was equal (which it isn't), then their game policy still isn't equal.  PSN is promoting indie games hard.

It's gonna come down, largely, to fandoms and exclusives, not much else, IMO.

Though I cannot believe that the people annoyed by Kinects aren't greater than most people assume.

[MerinTB]

LPPrince wrote...
If I was worried about people watching/recording me I wouldn't have a cell phone or a webcam on my notebook. I'm good.

I use a separate monitor for my laptop that has a camera.  And I disable the software for the camera on the laptop and my Asus monitor (to the point of having the cord for the camera disconnected on the monitor as well.)

My cell phone isn't smart, and is quite often off.  Thanks to some of the new stories about the NSA, however, I might buy one of those cases for my phone that blocks it's signal.

Modifié par MerinTB, 23 juin 2013 - 03:25 .

[Volus Warlord]

billy the squid wrote...

J. Reezy wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

Phoenix_Fyre wrote...

Ah. Well I don't know much about Playstation's online network like I know Xbox Live

so I assume we pay monthly fees for ESO?

I'm not actually sure. Maybe, but I don't think that you do with Destiny, that's covered by the PSN plus charge of £1.75 a month for online play. I haven't seen any info relating to monthly charges from the games themselves on either the X1 or PS4, but it's a good idea to keep an eye out. 

I don't think you can apply PSN's pay to play set up with Destiny. That's Sony's thing, not Bungie/Activision's thing.

Well I don't think Destiny will require a subscription, at least the little that's know has indicated it won't, but I'll be waiting for more info. It's rather sketchy at the moment. ESO, I've no idea. Both have been fairly vague on the details of a subscription plan, if any.

It's safe to assume we will know nothing until release or very close to it.

IT WILL COST YOU X isn't a very good way to start a sales pitch.

[Salamander Soup]

Splinter Cell 108 wrote...

Salamander Soup wrote...

Microsoft could announce Xbox urinates in your cereal and their fanboys would bow down and worship it.

But why? Why are there people who will bow down to whatever piece of **** they are given? I don't get it, is it because they can't admit that they are wrong, are they stupid or is there some mysterious reason as to why anyone would accept any of this?

Yeah I never got it, either. Maybe the symbol of the device is some form of porn or something. Why loyalty exists to these types of products, I have no clue. I mean sure, everyone has varying opinions, and that's super cool, but it was so funny because "the future" was all I was hearing from fanboys of Xbox. And keep in mind, I never owned a Sony console and have a Xbox 360. "The future" isn't indicative of good things at all, at least exclusively. In fact, all of our futures have inevitable death. Lol. What's so good about a future where your stuff is on a Microsoft server, reliant upon their servers and having nothing you own in your physical possession? And talk about the cloud is smoke and mirrors, it won't enhance nothing, they are trying to meander around the fact their hardware is a lot weaker then PS4. Open world games especially will look best on PC/PS4, as Xbox One doesn't have the hardware power to render it as well because the muscle just isn't there. And 2 more GB of its RAM will also not be there. It's hilarious seeing fanboys such as Woodysgamertag

[Cyonan]

Salamander Soup wrote...
Yeah I never got it, either. Maybe the symbol of the device is some form of porn or something. Why loyalty exists to these types of products, I have no clue. I mean sure, everyone has varying opinions, and that's super cool, but it was so funny because "the future" was all I was hearing from fanboys of Xbox. And keep in mind, I never owned a Sony console and have a Xbox 360. "The future" isn't indicative of good things at all, at least exclusively. In fact, all of our futures have inevitable death. Lol. What's so good about a future where your stuff is on a Microsoft server, reliant upon their servers and having nothing you own in your physical possession? And talk about the cloud is smoke and mirrors, it won't enhance nothing, they are trying to meander around the fact their hardware is a lot weaker then PS4. Open world games especially will look best on PC/PS4, as Xbox One doesn't have the hardware power to render it as well because the muscle just isn't there. And 2 more GB of its RAM will also not be there. It's hilarious seeing fanboys such as Woodysgamertag

Like it or not, it actually is the future. Microsoft just tried to beat Sony there then proceeded to mess up the implementation and sales pitch of the system.

Assuming they actually know how to use the cloud properly it will enhance things, but their claims of triple the power is just PR exaggeration. The main issue that Microsoft has conveniently ignored is that if a game makes heavy use of the cloud(something you'll probably see happening to most games as the generation goes on and the weaker hardware begins to show) it's also going to be always-on.

That 24 hour phone home system didn't actually mean anything if most of the games end up using the cloud to compensate for the weaker hardware.

[In Exile]

Cyonan wrote...
That 24 hour phone home system didn't actually mean anything if most of the games end up using the cloud to compensate for the weaker hardware.

Yes, but that's the way to get the audience in. Not telling them to go **** themselves if they don't have internet or aren't in one of the participating countries. 

[Raizo]

MarchWaltz wrote...

The Mad Hanar wrote...

So where do you guys think the X1 stands now that you can turn the kinect off, and many of the restrictions on the games are lifted? Is Microsoft on even ground with Sony?

From what I know, the Kinect isn't really "off" and the hardware is not as good as the PS4's.

Also, PS4 is cheaper.

Choice seems logical, captain.

For me the 'Kinect' is and has always been the main thing standing in the way of me buying a XBox One. I wasn't 100% happy with Microsoft and their drm plans but I did get ( more or less ) what they were trying to do and it wasn't really going to effect me all that much.

I don't like the idea that the XBox One can't work without the Kinect. I get that I can unplug the XBoxOne ( and the Kinect ) when it is not in use and I get that I can limit how how the Kinect works in the system settings menu but at the end of the day as long as the Console is on so is the Kinect and I really don't like that at all. I don't want it in my houise at all and if the XBox One has to come with the Kinect then I want the option to leave it in it's packaging and not hook it up at all.

For the moment I am taking a wait and see approach to the XBox One. I will probably end up getting one somewhere down the line but I can live without for a year or two ( maybe even 3 ). If they ditched the mandatory Kinect useage however then the XBox One could make it's way onto my 2013 Christmas wish list. 

I will defenetly be getting a PS4 this year however.

[Doctoglethorpe]

Raizo wrote...

MarchWaltz wrote...

The Mad Hanar wrote...

So where do you guys think the X1 stands now that you can turn the kinect off, and many of the restrictions on the games are lifted? Is Microsoft on even ground with Sony?

From what I know, the Kinect isn't really "off" and the hardware is not as good as the PS4's.

Also, PS4 is cheaper.

Choice seems logical, captain.

For me the 'Kinect' is and has always been the main thing standing in the way of me buying a XBox One. I wasn't 100% happy with Microsoft and their drm plans but I did get ( more or less ) what they were trying to do and it wasn't really going to effect me all that much.

I don't like the idea that the XBox One can't work without the Kinect. I get that I can unplug the XBoxOne ( and the Kinect ) when it is not in use and I get that I can limit how how the Kinect works in the system settings menu but at the end of the day as long as the Console is on so is the Kinect and I really don't like that at all. I don't want it in my houise at all and if the XBox One has to come with the Kinect then I want the option to leave it in it's packaging and not hook it up at all.

For the moment I am taking a wait and see approach to the XBox One. I will probably end up getting one somewhere down the line but I can live without for a year or two ( maybe even 3 ). If they ditched the mandatory Kinect useage however then the XBox One could make it's way onto my 2013 Christmas wish list. 

I will defenetly be getting a PS4 this year however.

Even if you could leave kinect stuffed in your closet, you still have to pay $100 for it.  Whats the point I ask.  Just buy a console that doesn't shove a spycam down your throat at your own expense. 

This is the real flaw with the whole "turn it off" argument.  Even if I could just leave it off, why the **** would I pay for it in the first place?  Sense, none it makes. 

[brettc893]

This thread should really be renamed "Next Gen Console Discussion"

[MerinTB]

Doctor Moustache wrote...
Even if you could leave kinect stuffed in your closet, you still have to pay $100 for it.  Whats the point I ask.  Just buy a console that doesn't shove a spycam down your throat at your own expense.  

This is the real flaw with the whole "turn it off" argument.  Even if I could just leave it off, why the **** would I pay for it in the first place?  Sense, none it makes. 

Yep.