4196 réponses à ce sujet

[stonbw1]

^ My main concern with Kinect is that it forces developers to incorporate it into their games. Thus far, all I've seen is gimmicky implementation.

[ViSeiRa]

Oh, dear... here we go again

billy the squid wrote...

You're going to pick a fight with someone with a legal education about Copyright infringment based on the Usedsoft V Oracle case from the ECJ? You're going to lose, badly. The Steam trading isn't completed yet you dullard. That's not the trading system. The verdict was only reached in November 2012.

And Steam does have a disk based system. It's why I can walk into a
store and buy a PC game, then activate it on Steam. Please, if you want
to make a point make correctly.

Oh, my bad... How do you know the Steam trading isn't gonna work exactly/similar or parallel to MSFT's trading system? if by your account we know nothing about Microsoft's policies and you're already angry with them, why are you so satisfied and smug about Steam's? after all we don't know anything (truly) about it either, no?

And Steam doesn't have a disc-based system to deal with, you can't play a game from the DVD drive on PC, you can't play a disc-based Steam game without activating it ONLINE first, and it can only be activated once, while in Microsoft's case you could play without activating the game online hence the 24-hour check... so can you tell me genius why are you so smug about Steam? come back to me when they implement their trading system... we'll see what you have to say about it then.

God, the amount the stupid emanating from you is endless.

billy the squid wrote...

Bing is placed there because MSFT doesn't have a monopoly on Google or Firefox, they already got fined 651 million Euros for purposefully putting Internet search software directly into their Windows operating systems, and trying to kill competing search engines, Bing is the simple extension of that, released to compete with Google. If bing clearly is that good it wouldn't only have a 15% of the market in comparison to Google. Bing and Google aren't a loss leaders because they promote Google Chrome netbook or other MS products they add subsidiary services to that product, which are produced by MS or Google, just as iPhones use Yahoo as their default search engine, so Yahoo is now a loss leader, rather than a subsidiary service, yet clearly doesn't encourages the uptake of Apple's IPhones? Pffffft. . While Hotmail being updated was because it was clearly seen as inferior to Gmail in comparison.

I thought you said Bing is Loss leader? Which is is, suppoerting product or loss leader. They are not the same, even if the supporting product incurs a loss.

Okay... calm down kid, let's see what you said.

First, the EU fined MSFT €561 million because the browser ballot screen was missing on Windows 7 from May 2011 to July 2012... that has got nothing to do with Bing or search engines at all, learn to read sweetheart.

Second, can you please explain what the mess you said above about the iPhone, loss leaders, Google Chrome Netbooks and Yahoo? because Google is a company not a search engine, I don't know why we're talking about netbooks and iOS's default search engine is definitely Google and starting on iOS 7 it's gonna be Google for web + Bing for Siri.

Anyway, just to make it worth my while, go get your self schooled on the concept of loss leaders in software services not in retail markets, you'll get it... I hope... eventually.

billy the squid wrote...

And so we come to the name calling, well If you're willing to wh0re yourself and walk in blind to a deal with MSFT with no explaination of what each policy actually involved beyond the vague promises that were made, I draw from that you're being deliberately obtuse. Nothing was said about MS's policies, there was no detail and half of the interviews were contradictory in nature. You've been given your explainations of the policies and it's issues and examples of the competitors which act differently. If this is all you've got, then I'm glad MSFT back tracked and even happier now that I know the fools abound in the gaming community are crying bitter tears because we refused to be taken for a ride by MSFT.

Oh, keep telling yourself that... whatever helps you sleep at night.

BTW, my internet connection was down these last two days... what a horror, maybe if I had an X1 I wouldn't be able to play my games by now -----------------------> just kidding, I had finals to contend with... not all of us have got the time to google around for big words to through in online debates.

Edit - @MerinTB: I'm getting back to you tomorrow... it's quite late over here.

Modifié par ViSeirA, 24 juin 2013 - 08:34 .

[Ryzaki]

Agree with this video so hard about the differences on DRM on PC and Console.

[MerinTB]

ViSeirA wrote...
I had finals to contend with... not all of us have got the time to google around for big words to through in online debates.

Edit - @MerinTB: I'm getting back to you tomorrow... it's quite late over here.

You take your time with those finals.  Study hard.  Maybe have a care package from your parent when they bring the laundry they did for you after they paid off your tuition.  Those of us who have college long behind us will be busy with our real-world responsibilities.

Whee, isn't that kind of snide comment fun?  

No?

Some assumptions in there that don't fit you?

Huh.  Imagine that.  Attacking the person, and not the argument, not being effective?

Live and learn.

[billy the squid]

ViSeirA wrote...

Oh, dear... here we go again

billy the squid wrote...

You're going to pick a fight with someone with a legal education about Copyright infringment based on the Usedsoft V Oracle case from the ECJ? You're going to lose, badly. The Steam trading isn't completed yet you dullard. That's not the trading system. The verdict was only reached in November 2012.

And Steam does have a disk based system. It's why I can walk into a
store and buy a PC game, then activate it on Steam. Please, if you want
to make a point make correctly.

Oh, my bad... How do you know the Steam trading isn't gonna work exactly/similar or parallel to MSFT's trading system? if by your account we know nothing about Microsoft's policies and you're already angry with them, why are you so satisfied and smug about Steam's? after all we don't know anything (truly) about it either, no?

And Steam doesn't have a disc-based system to deal with, you can't play a game from the DVD drive on PC, you can't play a disc-based Steam game without activating it ONLINE first, and it can only be activated once, while in Microsoft's case you could play without activating the game online hence the 24-hour check... so can you tell me genius why are you so smug about Steam? come back to me when they implement their trading system... we'll see what you have to say about it then.

God, the amount the stupid emanating from you is endless.

billy the squid wrote...

Bing is placed there because MSFT doesn't have a monopoly on Google or Firefox, they already got fined 651 million Euros for purposefully putting Internet search software directly into their Windows operating systems, and trying to kill competing search engines, Bing is the simple extension of that, released to compete with Google. If bing clearly is that good it wouldn't only have a 15% of the market in comparison to Google. Bing and Google aren't a loss leaders because they promote Google Chrome netbook or other MS products they add subsidiary services to that product, which are produced by MS or Google, just as iPhones use Yahoo as their default search engine, so Yahoo is now a loss leader, rather than a subsidiary service, yet clearly doesn't encourages the uptake of Apple's IPhones? Pffffft. . While Hotmail being updated was because it was clearly seen as inferior to Gmail in comparison.

I thought you said Bing is Loss leader? Which is is, suppoerting product or loss leader. They are not the same, even if the supporting product incurs a loss.

Okay... calm down kid, let's see what you said.

First, the EU fined MSFT €561 million because the browser ballot screen was missing on Windows 7 from May 2011 to July 2012... that has got nothing to do with Bing or search engines at all, learn to read sweetheart.

Second, can you please explain what the mess you said above about the iPhone, loss leaders, Google Chrome Netbooks and Yahoo? because Google is a company not a search engine, I don't know why we're talking about netbooks and iOS's default search engine is definitely Google and starting on iOS 7 it's gonna be Google for web + Bing for Siri.

Anyway, just to make it worth my while, go get your self schooled on the concept of loss leaders in software services not in retail markets, you'll get it... I hope... eventually.

billy the squid wrote...

And so we come to the name calling, well If you're willing to wh0re yourself and walk in blind to a deal with MSFT with no explaination of what each policy actually involved beyond the vague promises that were made, I draw from that you're being deliberately obtuse. Nothing was said about MS's policies, there was no detail and half of the interviews were contradictory in nature. You've been given your explainations of the policies and it's issues and examples of the competitors which act differently. If this is all you've got, then I'm glad MSFT back tracked and even happier now that I know the fools abound in the gaming community are crying bitter tears because we refused to be taken for a ride by MSFT.

Oh, keep telling yourself that... whatever helps you sleep at night.

BTW, my internet connection was down these last two days... what a horror, maybe if I had an X1 I wouldn't be able to play my games by now -----------------------> just kidding, I had finals to contend with... not all of us have got the time to google around for big words to through in online debates.

Edit - @MerinTB: I'm getting back to you tomorrow... it's quite late over here.

Here we go again? Do you think you can **** and whine then walk away and not get a reply? Shocking!

1) Because the MSFT system is in direct breach of EU law, and it's not even a trading system, is a "borrow friends games" based on a demo system. While there is no info of how trading would work with Gamestop, by trading in the physical game itself. Steam, has done things right so far, they deserve credit. MSFT, no. Or do you think they would be dumb enough to make the same mistakes as MSFT, when they've been doing digital sales far longer?

So, Steam doing the same as MSFT would be monumentally stupid. Don't be dumb, Steam's one off sign is the equivalent of MSFT's 24 hour check in? So you could play a game on xbox without activating the game online, that's why it has the 24 hour on line check in, despite it being locked to your user ID? Were you dropped on your head as a child?

2)Yes, and why was the browser ballot required to be put into the Windows system in the first place? Because they were bundling Internet explorer with Windows, their actions were in non compliance with the original judgment. They're not seperate issues. Hence their fine for failing to comply with the settlement in the first place. Don't tell me how EU law works. 

As to loss leaders, you said Bing was a loss leader, I said it wasn't, I said it was a subsidiary service. You then contradicted yourself and said it was a search engine and subsidiary service. If Bing is a Loss leader, as you said, then so is Google Chrome, or Yahoo. Both are search engines and products from a company which are supposed to encourage further products and services being purchased, while making a loss, at least according to your reasoning. 

And Google Chrome, not Google, is not a company, I can't believe what I'm hearing, and how badly wrong that is. Google is a company. Google Chrome, is a subsidiary service, and doesn't run at a loss, nor does it have anything to do with the uptake of the Chromebook, as a loss leader would, even if it is distributed free. It's a service which happens to work in conjunction with a new product. If you had a functional free software, which would then have a subscription service for premium facilities of that service, then that would be

The same with bundled Yahoo search services, with the iPhone. The Xbox would be a specific example, sold at a loss to capitalise on the higher margins from the games and purchases on xbox live services. Get the picture?

Tell me if I'm going too fast now, I was typing quickly before, I thought you could keep up, but apparantly not. 

Is that it? That all you have, contradictions and evasions, while I nail your arse to the wall? The fact that you have finals and I already completed my degrees in law and socio economics, means I have the advantage of weekends to jump on here, without the need to google anything. 

Modifié par billy the squid, 24 juin 2013 - 10:27 .

[MerinTB]

Ryzaki wrote...
Agree with this video so hard about the differences on DRM on PC and Console. 

Yepyepyep.

[LPPrince]

stonbw1 wrote...

^ My main concern with Kinect is that it forces developers to incorporate it into their games. Thus far, all I've seen is gimmicky implementation.

It does not force developers to incorporate it into their games.

Hell, almost all the games shown at E3 had no mention of Kinect and likely will not have Kinect func.

But as I was saying before, the only way developers will learn how to use Kinect for hardcore games in a non-gimmicky way is if they have it available to them without a doubt.

So I'm all for it. Hell, Bethesda had good Kinect functionality in Skyrim(was voice only).

I feel Bioware had a missed opportunity(ME3 was a huge missed opportunity in and of itself) by not making the Galaxy Map in ME3 Kinect-capable.

Now that Kinect is definitely there for everyone, we might see it used in much better ways.

It'll always be easier for casual and highly accessible games, but if AAA developers try, we can see some great things come out of motion control going forward.

[Ravensword]

ViSeirA wrote...

Oh, dear... here we go again

billy the squid wrote...

You're going to pick a fight with someone with a legal education about Copyright infringment based on the Usedsoft V Oracle case from the ECJ? You're going to lose, badly. The Steam trading isn't completed yet you dullard. That's not the trading system. The verdict was only reached in November 2012.

And Steam does have a disk based system. It's why I can walk into a
store and buy a PC game, then activate it on Steam. Please, if you want
to make a point make correctly.

Oh, my bad... How do you know the Steam trading isn't gonna work exactly/similar or parallel to MSFT's trading system? if by your account we know nothing about Microsoft's policies and you're already angry with them, why are you so satisfied and smug about Steam's? after all we don't know anything (truly) about it either, no?

And Steam doesn't have a disc-based system to deal with, you can't play a game from the DVD drive on PC, you can't play a disc-based Steam game without activating it ONLINE first, and it can only be activated once, while in Microsoft's case you could play without activating the game online hence the 24-hour check... so can you tell me genius why are you so smug about Steam? come back to me when they implement their trading system... we'll see what you have to say about it then.

God, the amount the stupid emanating from you is endless.

billy the squid wrote...

Bing is placed there because MSFT doesn't have a monopoly on Google or Firefox, they already got fined 651 million Euros for purposefully putting Internet search software directly into their Windows operating systems, and trying to kill competing search engines, Bing is the simple extension of that, released to compete with Google. If bing clearly is that good it wouldn't only have a 15% of the market in comparison to Google. Bing and Google aren't a loss leaders because they promote Google Chrome netbook or other MS products they add subsidiary services to that product, which are produced by MS or Google, just as iPhones use Yahoo as their default search engine, so Yahoo is now a loss leader, rather than a subsidiary service, yet clearly doesn't encourages the uptake of Apple's IPhones? Pffffft. . While Hotmail being updated was because it was clearly seen as inferior to Gmail in comparison.

I thought you said Bing is Loss leader? Which is is, suppoerting product or loss leader. They are not the same, even if the supporting product incurs a loss.

Okay... calm down kid, let's see what you said.

First, the EU fined MSFT €561 million because the browser ballot screen was missing on Windows 7 from May 2011 to July 2012... that has got nothing to do with Bing or search engines at all, learn to read sweetheart.

Second, can you please explain what the mess you said above about the iPhone, loss leaders, Google Chrome Netbooks and Yahoo? because Google is a company not a search engine, I don't know why we're talking about netbooks and iOS's default search engine is definitely Google and starting on iOS 7 it's gonna be Google for web + Bing for Siri.

Anyway, just to make it worth my while, go get your self schooled on the concept of loss leaders in software services not in retail markets, you'll get it... I hope... eventually.

billy the squid wrote...

And so we come to the name calling, well If you're willing to wh0re yourself and walk in blind to a deal with MSFT with no explaination of what each policy actually involved beyond the vague promises that were made, I draw from that you're being deliberately obtuse. Nothing was said about MS's policies, there was no detail and half of the interviews were contradictory in nature. You've been given your explainations of the policies and it's issues and examples of the competitors which act differently. If this is all you've got, then I'm glad MSFT back tracked and even happier now that I know the fools abound in the gaming community are crying bitter tears because we refused to be taken for a ride by MSFT.

Oh, keep telling yourself that... whatever helps you sleep at night.

BTW, my internet connection was down these last two days... what a horror, maybe if I had an X1 I wouldn't be able to play my games by now -----------------------> just kidding, I had finals to contend with... not all of us have got the time to google around for big words to through in online debates.

Edit - @MerinTB: I'm getting back to you tomorrow... it's quite late over here.

[GreyLycanTrope]

MerinTB wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...
Agree with this video so hard about the differences on DRM on PC and Console. 

Yepyepyep.

*thumbs up*

[GodWood]

stonbw1 wrote...
^ My main concern with Kinect is that it forces developers to incorporate it into their games. Thus far, all I've seen is gimmicky implementation.

No need to worry about that, Kinect is not for gamers nor does it have anything to do with gaming.

It is there to collect usable marketable meta data on users, user habits and most importantly user TV and commercial viewing. The thing can detect your heartbeat and your enthusiasm for something based on subtle changes to your infrared skin tones. It is highly unlikely developers will utilize such technology any time soon but advertisers and marketing people will pay top dollar for that kind of information. They say the Kinect can be turned off but that is not entirely true. It can be turned off when you are not using the console. MS doesn't care about that time. It comes on when you use the console, especially when you use it to watch TV.

[mybudgee]

Lol @ people who honesly believe that the Kinect is the first &/or only attempt by a corporation (big bro) to spy on the public. It has been happening for decades...

Also, I will pay for a prostate exam by a homeless amateur doctor before I pay for a Kinect

[GodWood]

mybudgee wrote...
Lol @ people who honesly believe that the Kinect is the first &/or only attempt by a corporation (big bro) to spy on the public.

Never said it was the first and/or only attempt.

[MerinTB]

mybudgee wrote...
Lol @ people who honesly believe that the Kinect is the first &/or only attempt by a corporation (big bro) to spy on the public. It has been happening for decades...

Straw man.  I've yet to see one person say anything close to resembling what you are mocking.

Hating Prism and what the NSA did with the big tech companies does not mean that hate comes from ignorance of the illegal wiretapping that started under the Bush administration as well.

We can dislike all the marketing data that companies take from us AND still dislike the further intrusion that is Kinect.

[DukeOfNukes]

Saw this.

If true, it's saying that the family sharing plan was limited to no more than hour long blocks. Sounds like a glorified game demo service to me, which may explain why they were being so tight lipped about it. It sounds like they had some good concepts, but they relied on taking away functionality rather than giving us anything positive.

And that's the ongoing problem with the X1. I still have no reason to buy one...and a lot of reasons to avoid it...Halo games and TV shows just aren't enough to override having to install games, forcing me to buy a Kinect, pissing all over indie companies, and god knows what else we just haven't discovered yet.

[Salamander Soup]

DukeOfNukes wrote...

Saw this.

If true, it's saying that the family sharing plan was limited to no more than hour long blocks. Sounds like a glorified game demo service to me, which may explain why they were being so tight lipped about it. It sounds like they had some good concepts, but they relied on taking away functionality rather than giving us anything positive.

And that's the ongoing problem with the X1. I still have no reason to buy one...and a lot of reasons to avoid it...Halo games and TV shows just aren't enough to override having to install games, forcing me to buy a Kinect, pissing all over indie companies, and god knows what else we just haven't discovered yet.

PlayStation 4 has demos for every single game. Xbone didn't commit suicide, but their console still isn't that good. Kinect will be a gimmick for fanboys and little kids.

[LPPrince]

http://www.ign.com/a...rosoft-on-price

Sony and Microsoft aren't so different after all. Twas purely a business decision, they both had the same idea.

[ShepnTali]

The difference being, less cost because of a gadget not everybody wants. Better move, forced hand or not.

[Cyonan]

ShepnTali wrote...

The difference being, less cost because of a gadget not everybody wants. Better move, forced hand or not.

It's a smart move on Sony's part, but I wouldn't be trusting either company a whole lot.

The only reason Sony didn't make the same mistakes Microsoft did is because MS showed their hand first and the consumers let Sony know that it wasn't a winning hand before they fully showed theirs.

The next time they have a bad idea like that, Microsoft might not be there to screw it up for them first =P

[AresKeith]

I pretty sure Sony was planning the same thing Microsoft was doing with their system, but Sony waited to see the reaction to M$ reveal

[GreyLycanTrope]

AresKeith wrote...

I pretty sure Sony was planning the same thing Microsoft was doing with their system, but Sony waited to see the reaction to M$ reveal

Either way they were smart enough to realize it's not something the consumers wanted. If they decided to match stategies with Microsoft we would've been screwed, without the disparity in pre-orders there would have been no reason for MS to backtrack, unless pre-orders in general ended up low for both consoles. But I don't have that much faith in the gaming community, in general we tend to be an impulsive bunch when there's little contrast between options.

[LPPrince]

Fact is, Sony was gonna do the same thing MS did before gamers reacted the way they did.

It was just a matter of who did it first. MS fired first, they missed. Sony timed their shot, and scored.

Sony would've missed otherwise.

Meaning the argument that Sony's thinking of gamers needs to be put to rest- they are exactly like MS, only they waited.

Makes me feel better, since I've been saying that people might as well pick one and just go with it since they're basically the same thing.

[Splinter Cell 108]

LPPrince wrote...

http://www.ign.com/a...rosoft-on-price

Sony and Microsoft aren't so different after all. Twas purely a business decision, they both had the same idea.

Both companies are the same type of scum if you ask me. Why? Mainly because they restrict what you can do on a console. Why are mods non-existant in consoles? It's not because "people will cheat with them in MP", that's just the nonsense they tell people, its because they don't others making free content that they could charge for.

Take Skyrim for example, it allows modding and because it allows modding there's a series of user made patches that fix a lot of bugs. The unofficial patches fix a lot of things that didn't work. New Vegas is another example, there's a lot of bugs and cut content that was restored by mods. However, this isn't allowed on consoles and instead publishers like EA, Activision and Ubisoft get to release gimmicks like weapon packs, armor packs, etc. at high prices, and lets not forget that they also release cut content as DLC as well. Why does this happen? Because M$ and Sony make room for it by placing restrictions and they still wanted to place more restrictions, its ridiculous,  its insanity. If xbox one was going to be so similar to Steam, were they planning on having something like the Workshop, I think not because it would remove the opportunity to gouge the customer for money.

I guess people don't really notice those things because maybe they don't care about modding or don't realize what they could do to their games if they used mods. Bottom line, both Sony and M$ suck, they're both scumbags and I have no doubt that if this DRM nonsense had worked both would be doing it.  

[LPPrince]

Of course both would be doing it. Fanboying for any side(X1, PS4, PC(including Mac)) would be ridic.

Supporting any side as if it were miles ahead of another? Also ridic.

The only reason I'm considering getting Elder Scrolls Online for Mac instead of X1 is because its an MMO- not because of support or lack thereof for PC or Microsoft.

Hence why I find the ridiculing of someone over their choice of platform to be asinine.

[Cyonan]

Splinter Cell 108 wrote...
Both companies are the same type of scum if you ask me. Why? Mainly because they restrict what you can do on a console. Why are mods non-existant in consoles? It's not because "people will cheat with them in MP", that's just the nonsense they tell people, its because they don't others making free content that they could charge for.

Take Skyrim for example, it allows modding and because it allows modding there's a series of user made patches that fix a lot of bugs. The unofficial patches fix a lot of things that didn't work. New Vegas is another example, there's a lot of bugs and cut content that was restored by mods. However, this isn't allowed on consoles and instead publishers like EA, Activision and Ubisoft get to release gimmicks like weapon packs, armor packs, etc. at high prices, and lets not forget that they also release cut content as DLC as well. Why does this happen? Because M$ and Sony make room for it by placing restrictions and they still wanted to place more restrictions, its ridiculous,  its insanity. If xbox one was going to be so similar to Steam, were they planning on having something like the Workshop, I think not because it would remove the opportunity to gouge the customer for money.

I guess people don't really notice those things because maybe they don't care about modding or don't realize what they could do to their games if they used mods. Bottom line, both Sony and M$ suck, they're both scumbags and I have no doubt that if this DRM nonsense had worked both would be doing it.  

Wouldn't opening up the system like that just turn the console into a cheap PC?

Couldn't you just buy a cheap PC if that's what you want?