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#1226
billy the squid

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J. Reezy wrote...

So awesomely relevant:

Originally Posted by Open Source

If the secondhand market is not having a major detrimental effect on the primary market, then why would it need to be addressed?

If it were the case for movies and games, then yes, I'd favor similar
measures by music/movie industries to protect themselves against it.


"Well, this is the disconnect I guess. You admit you only hold this view
because of the detrimental effects (you think) are impacting the
industry. You are asserting that a fundamental aspect of property rights
and consumer rights as it has existed since the beginning of trade
should be adjusted and recodified on a per-industry basis, not
because it's inherently bad or unethical, but just because you think
it's a threat to the industry's health. Which means you are essentially
arguing for protectionism for corporations--consumers are free to
exercise their consumer rights only up to a certain point, but if that
free exercise is perceived to threaten the viability of the industry,
then their rights must be limited in order to save the industry.

I don't think I can put into words my disgust at this demeaning display
of groveling at the feet of your game developer overlords. Even a
die-hard laissez-faire capitalist would not be so subservient, because
even a capitalist would accept that sometimes industries die and
that's the way the world works. As much as I enjoy games, there is no
inherent good in this industry. The ends do not justify the means here;
there is nothing that makes the gaming industry inherently worthy
of preservation, not to the point that would justify carving out a
special exemption for them where used games are somehow magically not OK
when they are OK for every other packaged good on the planet. Just
because your favored set of content producers couldn't properly adapt
does not justify rewriting the rules of what "property ownership" means
and fundamentally removing the ability to preserve, inherit, pass on,
lend, and share its products.



The industry does not come first; consumers do. I have no sympathy for
an industry that cannot properly stumble its way around a viable
secondhand market like every other mature industry in the world.
Sometimes your old product just isn't good enough, and the way you solve
it is by making a better product, not by forcing consumers to
adapt to your archaic and myopic business model with your dying breath.
If this industry can't find a way to make money off the primary market
-- even with DLC and exclusive pre-order content and HD re-releases and
map packs and online passes and annualized sequels and "expanding the
audience" and AAA advertising and forced multiplayer -- then, if I may
be so blunt, f*ck it. It doesn't deserve our money in the first place.
If an entire industry has its head so far up its ass, is so focused on
short-term gains, and has embraced such a catastrophically stupid
blockbuster business model in the pursuit of a stagnant market of
hardcore 18-34 dudebros that it thinks it has no choice but to take away
our first-sale rights as its last chance of maybe, finally, creating a
sustainable stream of profits, then it can go to hell. It doesn't need your protection, it needs to be taken out back and beaten until it remembers who its real masters are.

I especially have a hard time having any sympathy because so many of the
industry's problems are of its own making. They chose to focus on
shaderific HD graphics over long-lasting appeal and gameplay; they chose
to focus on linear scripted cinematic B-movie imitations that were only
good for one playthrough instead of replayability and open-ended
design; they chose to pour so much money and marketing into military
porn and fetishized violent shootbang Press A to Awesome titles, exactly
the kinds of games that hardcore gamers, the most likely gamers to trade in games quickly
were prone to buying and reselling; and perhaps most galling, they
chose to give Gamestop loads of exclusive pre-order bonuses while they
knew exactly what Gamestop would say to those customers once in the
store. They kept making insanely lavish and nonsensical displays of
spectacular whizz-bang, despite that being exactly the kind of game most
susceptible to trading after one week because there was nothing left to
do with it. And now they're discovering that putting so many insanely
expensive eggs into one fragile and easily breakable basket is maybe not
the most sustainable business model ever.

So forgive me if I find myself not caring one bit when the industry
complains that it's just so hard to sell six million copies of Gears of
Medal of Battle of Uncharted Angry Dudes VII in the first week and
that's why they need to take away used sales for the entire platform.
No, the problem isn't at this end."


Posted Image

#1227
The Heretic of Time

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EntropicAngel wrote...

Saints944 wrote...

Sony employees respond to no DRM campain


Am I the only one who sees in those tweets that Sony isn't changing a thing? They're just talking.

"I love the passion!" Lol.


Am I the only one who takes those "I love the passion" comments from Sony as snide smart-ass remarks?

#1228
LPPrince

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Heretic_Hanar wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

Saints944 wrote...

Sony employees respond to no DRM campain


Am I the only one who sees in those tweets that Sony isn't changing a thing? They're just talking.

"I love the passion!" Lol.


Am I the only one who takes those "I love the passion" comments from Sony as snide smart-ass remarks?


I saw them as, "We're not gonna really say anything lol so YAY PASSION"

#1229
Eternal Napalm

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Sony said no to internet requirements, yes to used games months ago, and said that it will be up to individual publishers to implement their own policies. Dorito/Mountain Dew boy is getting defensive of his beloved Xbone and making stuff up after Sony has already answered the question. The market is so hostile and angry and the wave of backlash so massive Sony basically complemented its customers and potential customers in a generic way and absolutely steered clear of jumping into the fray, less the answers they have given; clear answers, get construed.

Here is what Sony is enjoying right now:

--Getting their vision, product and focus of the PS4 out to consumers first.
--Massive, overwhelming anger, criticism and backlash of the Xbox One.
--Clearly better hardware specs, with GDDR5 and a GPU approximately 50% more powerful then the Xbox One. Games are destined to look better then current console competitors.
--Used game friendly.
--Zero internet requirements.
--DRM policies making publishers take responsibility on an individual basis. Fair in my book.
--No Skynet, always on 1984 spyware
--Focus on games and gamers. Specifically said almost in the beginning that the livingroom isn't the focus, the gamer is (early attack on Xbox).
--All new, next generation Final Fantasy at E3. Not for me, but big for others.
--Complete friendliness towards indie devs, allowing self-publishing and ease of access
--Remote play via PS Vita. **note Vita's current lackluster sales in this point
--Exclusive content for Bungie's brand new sci-fi shooter mmo that has the interest of shooter and rpg fans. Bungie also endorses PS4 and calls it impressive.
--day one digital that is completely optional, expanding consumer choice.



Let's look at two Microsoft potential exclusives....Ryse and new Sci-fi shooter from Respawn Entertainment. Couldn't care less myself.

#1230
LPPrince

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Eternal Napalm wrote...

Let's look at two Microsoft potential exclusives....Ryse and new Sci-fi shooter from Respawn Entertainment. Couldn't care less myself.


My stepbrother just read all that, he's a PS3 gamer, and he had this to say-

"Then why make a thread about it? Why constantly rip it if its clear you won't be getting it? Move on."

Earlier he read the top two posts on Page 48 and asked why you felt the need to justify your opinion.

And just now asked me to ask you if you consider yourself a "Self-proclaimed Sony fanboy" since he considers himself one.

I guess he's just trying to figure out the logic in all this and I'm the unfortunate middle man. 

I think his motivation for this was all the talk of opinions being facts and such.

#1231
Bekkael

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J. Reezy wrote...

So awesomely relevant:

*snip*


That was a five star post. Yes, very relevant.

Here's a link for anyone interested in reading that thread directly.


(Edit for spelling!)

Modifié par Bekkael, 27 mai 2013 - 07:48 .


#1232
Blind2Society

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J. Reezy wrote...

So awesomely relevant:

*snip*


Spot. Frakkin. On.

Who wrote that?   NvM, thanks Bekkael


Modifié par Blind2Society, 27 mai 2013 - 07:45 .


#1233
Guest_Catch This Fade_*

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Lazengan wrote...

spirosz wrote...

Lazengan wrote...

tbh, while Call of Duty represents the cancer of gaming

I've played every single game of the series, even the very hard to find, almost non-existent CoD3

I'm not gonna lie, I enjoyed the story. I exclusively played it for the story though, I found the multiplayer to be nothing more than a poorly developped, glorified pinata simulator

This is also perhaps the reason that the Call of duty franchise is the most pirated game series of all time.


How is it the cancer of gaming?  Gaming isn't dieing at any rate and games are becoming better and better.  It has a specific aspect to it, that is tailored towards a certain group that enjoy the "arcade" MP feel.  The MP is developed very well, just because it's seem as "user-friendly", doesn't mean there isn't a learning curve to it.  

Have you ever play competitively , from COD or any first person shooter recently?    


The combat is absolutely terrible and mind numbingly bad. No choices to be made, repetitive, no mechanics, everything is hold hands with the deveopper and not actually playing a game

That word "game"...I don't think you know what it means.

#1234
LPPrince

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J. Reezy wrote...

So awesomely relevant:

Originally Posted by Open Source

If the secondhand market is not having a major detrimental effect on the primary market, then why would it need to be addressed?

If it were the case for movies and games, then yes, I'd favor similar
measures by music/movie industries to protect themselves against it.


"Well, this is the disconnect I guess. You admit you only hold this view
because of the detrimental effects (you think) are impacting the
industry. You are asserting that a fundamental aspect of property rights
and consumer rights as it has existed since the beginning of trade
should be adjusted and recodified on a per-industry basis, not
because it's inherently bad or unethical, but just because you think
it's a threat to the industry's health. Which means you are essentially
arguing for protectionism for corporations--consumers are free to
exercise their consumer rights only up to a certain point, but if that
free exercise is perceived to threaten the viability of the industry,
then their rights must be limited in order to save the industry.

I don't think I can put into words my disgust at this demeaning display
of groveling at the feet of your game developer overlords. Even a
die-hard laissez-faire capitalist would not be so subservient, because
even a capitalist would accept that sometimes industries die and
that's the way the world works. As much as I enjoy games, there is no
inherent good in this industry. The ends do not justify the means here;
there is nothing that makes the gaming industry inherently worthy
of preservation, not to the point that would justify carving out a
special exemption for them where used games are somehow magically not OK
when they are OK for every other packaged good on the planet. Just
because your favored set of content producers couldn't properly adapt
does not justify rewriting the rules of what "property ownership" means
and fundamentally removing the ability to preserve, inherit, pass on,
lend, and share its products.



The industry does not come first; consumers do. I have no sympathy for
an industry that cannot properly stumble its way around a viable
secondhand market like every other mature industry in the world.
Sometimes your old product just isn't good enough, and the way you solve
it is by making a better product, not by forcing consumers to
adapt to your archaic and myopic business model with your dying breath.
If this industry can't find a way to make money off the primary market
-- even with DLC and exclusive pre-order content and HD re-releases and
map packs and online passes and annualized sequels and "expanding the
audience" and AAA advertising and forced multiplayer -- then, if I may
be so blunt, f*ck it. It doesn't deserve our money in the first place.
If an entire industry has its head so far up its ass, is so focused on
short-term gains, and has embraced such a catastrophically stupid
blockbuster business model in the pursuit of a stagnant market of
hardcore 18-34 dudebros that it thinks it has no choice but to take away
our first-sale rights as its last chance of maybe, finally, creating a
sustainable stream of profits, then it can go to hell. It doesn't need your protection, it needs to be taken out back and beaten until it remembers who its real masters are.

I especially have a hard time having any sympathy because so many of the
industry's problems are of its own making. They chose to focus on
shaderific HD graphics over long-lasting appeal and gameplay; they chose
to focus on linear scripted cinematic B-movie imitations that were only
good for one playthrough instead of replayability and open-ended
design; they chose to pour so much money and marketing into military
porn and fetishized violent shootbang Press A to Awesome titles, exactly
the kinds of games that hardcore gamers, the most likely gamers to trade in games quickly
were prone to buying and reselling; and perhaps most galling, they
chose to give Gamestop loads of exclusive pre-order bonuses while they
knew exactly what Gamestop would say to those customers once in the
store. They kept making insanely lavish and nonsensical displays of
spectacular whizz-bang, despite that being exactly the kind of game most
susceptible to trading after one week because there was nothing left to
do with it. And now they're discovering that putting so many insanely
expensive eggs into one fragile and easily breakable basket is maybe not
the most sustainable business model ever.

So forgive me if I find myself not caring one bit when the industry
complains that it's just so hard to sell six million copies of Gears of
Medal of Battle of Uncharted Angry Dudes VII in the first week and
that's why they need to take away used sales for the entire platform.
No, the problem isn't at this end."


I just read this to my stepbro and he agreed entirely. I don't blame him, that was exceptional.

#1235
Ghost Lightning

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I was under the impression that Sony said that an online DRM was "never an option" for the PS4 and that it would still be fully disk based, meaning that you could share physical copies and as such still trade in and buy used games.

Are there new rumors or something?

#1236
slimgrin

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Bekkael wrote...


Here's a link for anyone interesting in reading that thread directly.


Someone email this to Microsoft, EA, Ubisoft, Activision...

Seriously, this post absolutely nails the underlying problem with the games industry as well as the lunacy of thinking used games are somehow different than used music CD's, books, movies or anything else.

Modifié par slimgrin, 27 mai 2013 - 07:58 .


#1237
Sebby

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One of the fine marketing opportunities for the Kinect 2.

Posted Image

#1238
Ravensword

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J. Reezy wrote...

Lazengan wrote...

spirosz wrote...

Lazengan wrote...

tbh, while Call of Duty represents the cancer of gaming

I've played every single game of the series, even the very hard to find, almost non-existent CoD3

I'm not gonna lie, I enjoyed the story. I exclusively played it for the story though, I found the multiplayer to be nothing more than a poorly developped, glorified pinata simulator

This is also perhaps the reason that the Call of duty franchise is the most pirated game series of all time.


How is it the cancer of gaming?  Gaming isn't dieing at any rate and games are becoming better and better.  It has a specific aspect to it, that is tailored towards a certain group that enjoy the "arcade" MP feel.  The MP is developed very well, just because it's seem as "user-friendly", doesn't mean there isn't a learning curve to it.  

Have you ever play competitively , from COD or any first person shooter recently?    


The combat is absolutely terrible and mind numbingly bad. No choices to be made, repetitive, no mechanics, everything is hold hands with the deveopper and not actually playing a game

That word "game"...I don't think you know what it means.


W/ CoD it's all about MP. CoD's SP is more of an interactive film than a video game.

Also, SP in CoD is mostly obligatory, it seems.

Modifié par Ravensword, 27 mai 2013 - 07:55 .


#1239
Bekkael

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slimgrin wrote...

Bekkael wrote...


Here's a link for anyone interesting in reading that thread directly.


Someone email this to Microsoft.


Lulz. One of the responses in that thread says: "This needs to be printed off and nailed to publishers foreheads."

:lol:

#1240
Chromie

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Seboist wrote...

One of the fine marketing opportunities for the Kinect 2.

Posted Image





Posted Image

#1241
Guest_Catch This Fade_*

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Bekkael wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Bekkael wrote...


Here's a link for anyone interesting in reading that thread directly.


Someone email this to Microsoft.


Lulz. One of the responses in that thread says: "This needs to be printed off and nailed to publishers foreheads."

:lol:

"With a second-hand hammer"

#1242
Guest_Catch This Fade_*

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Ravensword wrote...

W/ CoD it's all about MP. CoD's SP is more of an interactive film than a video game.

Also, SP in CoD is mostly obligatory, it seems.

Good point about single player. Despite the scripted feel of the singleplayer I still don't think Call of Duty's worth as a game can be called into questiion. Ignoring my now common sense of what a video game is, Call of Duty, single and multiplayer, is still a game as I had come to learn in my game design classes. Actions directly influenced by player input happen within this game. Things like running, walking, throwing grenades, and shooting are mechancs that the player can control. Maybe not at all times depending on what mode you're partaking in but they can be.

Modifié par J. Reezy, 27 mai 2013 - 08:19 .


#1243
Eternal Napalm

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That post the you shared, J.Reezy, was fantastic. That person completely nailed a bunch of points. I'm sure he didn't have to defend the reason he said them, either, like people want me to. Like any of that matters as I speak. This wave of backlash is the biggest I have ever seen. Too many people realize the obvious. But they nail it.

#1244
Saints

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 Don't you guys want to get achievements by watching tv?<_< 

#1245
Eternal Napalm

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I wonder how Microsoft plans on doing everything they want to anyway when they can't even have a basic, simplistic YouTube app on the 360 that doesn't freeze perpetually when using the search function. It'll be interesting to see.

#1246
Guest_Puddi III_*

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Saints944 wrote...

 Don't you guys want to get achievements by watching tv?<_< 

Not without Mtn Dew and Doritos in hand, I don't.

#1247
Guest_Jayne126_*

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Saints944 wrote...

 Don't you guys want to get achievements by watching tv?<_< 


What, you don't?

#1248
wolfsite

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www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/7370-When-The-Starscreams-Kill-Used-Games

Another Jim Sterling Vidoe.  Starts off with Xbox one then goes into used games.

#1249
OdanUrr

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TB discusses the X1 on Content Patch

#1250
BouncyFrag

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Any word on what happens if you cover the Kinect camera up with a towel or point it at the wall?