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Xbox One Discussion


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#1701
Mendelevosa

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J. Reezy wrote...

So awesomely relevant:

Originally Posted by Open Source

If the secondhand market is not having a major detrimental effect on the primary market, then why would it need to be addressed?

If it were the case for movies and games, then yes, I'd favor similar
measures by music/movie industries to protect themselves against it.


"Well, this is the disconnect I guess. You admit you only hold this view
because of the detrimental effects (you think) are impacting the
industry. You are asserting that a fundamental aspect of property rights
and consumer rights as it has existed since the beginning of trade
should be adjusted and recodified on a per-industry basis, not
because it's inherently bad or unethical, but just because you think
it's a threat to the industry's health. Which means you are essentially
arguing for protectionism for corporations--consumers are free to
exercise their consumer rights only up to a certain point, but if that
free exercise is perceived to threaten the viability of the industry,
then their rights must be limited in order to save the industry.

I don't think I can put into words my disgust at this demeaning display
of groveling at the feet of your game developer overlords. Even a
die-hard laissez-faire capitalist would not be so subservient, because
even a capitalist would accept that sometimes industries die and
that's the way the world works. As much as I enjoy games, there is no
inherent good in this industry. The ends do not justify the means here;
there is nothing that makes the gaming industry inherently worthy
of preservation, not to the point that would justify carving out a
special exemption for them where used games are somehow magically not OK
when they are OK for every other packaged good on the planet. Just
because your favored set of content producers couldn't properly adapt
does not justify rewriting the rules of what "property ownership" means
and fundamentally removing the ability to preserve, inherit, pass on,
lend, and share its products.



The industry does not come first; consumers do. I have no sympathy for
an industry that cannot properly stumble its way around a viable
secondhand market like every other mature industry in the world.
Sometimes your old product just isn't good enough, and the way you solve
it is by making a better product, not by forcing consumers to
adapt to your archaic and myopic business model with your dying breath.
If this industry can't find a way to make money off the primary market
-- even with DLC and exclusive pre-order content and HD re-releases and
map packs and online passes and annualized sequels and "expanding the
audience" and AAA advertising and forced multiplayer -- then, if I may
be so blunt, f*ck it. It doesn't deserve our money in the first place.
If an entire industry has its head so far up its ass, is so focused on
short-term gains, and has embraced such a catastrophically stupid
blockbuster business model in the pursuit of a stagnant market of
hardcore 18-34 dudebros that it thinks it has no choice but to take away
our first-sale rights as its last chance of maybe, finally, creating a
sustainable stream of profits, then it can go to hell. It doesn't need your protection, it needs to be taken out back and beaten until it remembers who its real masters are.

I especially have a hard time having any sympathy because so many of the
industry's problems are of its own making. They chose to focus on
shaderific HD graphics over long-lasting appeal and gameplay; they chose
to focus on linear scripted cinematic B-movie imitations that were only
good for one playthrough instead of replayability and open-ended
design; they chose to pour so much money and marketing into military
porn and fetishized violent shootbang Press A to Awesome titles, exactly
the kinds of games that hardcore gamers, the most likely gamers to trade in games quickly
were prone to buying and reselling; and perhaps most galling, they
chose to give Gamestop loads of exclusive pre-order bonuses while they
knew exactly what Gamestop would say to those customers once in the
store. They kept making insanely lavish and nonsensical displays of
spectacular whizz-bang, despite that being exactly the kind of game most
susceptible to trading after one week because there was nothing left to
do with it. And now they're discovering that putting so many insanely
expensive eggs into one fragile and easily breakable basket is maybe not
the most sustainable business model ever.

So forgive me if I find myself not caring one bit when the industry
complains that it's just so hard to sell six million copies of Gears of
Medal of Battle of Uncharted Angry Dudes VII in the first week and
that's why they need to take away used sales for the entire platform.
No, the problem isn't at this end."


I know this is a little late, but this post made me wet.......VERY WET!

I must meet this poet:wub:

#1702
billy the squid

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Degs29 wrote...

For all those against DRM on next-gen consoles, what's the alternative?  Just play game of the disc like the current gen?  As far as I know, not installing a game on the X1's hard drive just comes with the usual minor problems: runs louder, more disc wear and tear, etc.  But maybe there are other reasons X1 requires installation of games. 


Errr; to not have it, so I can install it, trade it, lend it. Do whatever. 

Not installing it isn't an option. And it's precisely so MS can gouge people at every turn.

#1703
MegaSovereign

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Not really relevant to the topic but this has thread has become the hub of all next gen talk so...

www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-sony-mandates-vita-remote-play-for-ps4-games

This is actually really cool, but it does mean that a chunk of the system's RAM will be used for this on all games.

#1704
billy the squid

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ImReincarnate wrote...

Im glad I switched to PC a couple months ago. So many of the things that made consoles what they are have been thrown out the window. From what I saw in the release it was pretty much 99.9% geared towards casual gamers. And the fact that you can't buy pre-owned games or at least borrow them from a mate is ridiculous. If I do have to buy a next gen console (which I won't, screw that) it'll most likely be a PS4.


The X1's approach has been to make a crappy PC. At the moment there is absolutely no reason to own an X1 over a PC. It's currently inferior in every way. 

PS4, seems to be the choice for a console, at the moment at least, but there are questions as yet unanswered.

#1705
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MegaSovereign wrote...

Not really relevant to the topic but this has thread has become the hub of all next gen talk so...

www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-sony-mandates-vita-remote-play-for-ps4-games

This is actually really cool, but it does mean that a chunk of the system's RAM will be used for this on all games.

I thought this was the hub of making fun of the Xbox One. That article doesn't help me point and laugh
Posted Image

#1706
billy the squid

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MegaSovereign wrote...

Not really relevant to the topic but this has thread has become the hub of all next gen talk so...

www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-sony-mandates-vita-remote-play-for-ps4-games

This is actually really cool, but it does mean that a chunk of the system's RAM will be used for this on all games.


Of course, if you actually activate Gaki, and connect the Vita to it. As it works on the principle of beaming the info to the PS4 from processing. Hence no Vita, or no use of Gaki, then the Ram use is going to be insignificant or non existant. Especially as Gaki requires the net. 

#1707
crimzontearz

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I said before that a dev from Ratloop Asia let it slip that, yes, the PS4 uses more than 1 gig for OS and other background stuff, which sounds more and more plausible

#1708
The Love Runner

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(In Movie Announcer Voice) In a world, where the luxury of gaming is becoming more of a luxury, gamers everywhere will experience the one console that will unite them all...IN HATRED!!

Posted Image (Definitely how some are feeling right now) 

Modifié par Galactic Runner, 30 mai 2013 - 06:01 .


#1709
billy the squid

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Yes, yes yes. We've gathered that much, but I don't think people have realised that not linking the Vita to the PS4 will not increase the RAM usage of the PS4 by default as the PS4 is not used for the processing of the game via Gaki.

If you intend to run a game on the Vita, and have the PS4 do the heavy lifting, then duh, of course the Ram usage is going to increase. You're running the game on the PS4 and transfering the calculation via Wi Fi onto the Vita, the PS4 is doing all the work.

Modifié par billy the squid, 30 mai 2013 - 06:01 .


#1710
Ridwan

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What are the odds that E3 will be a disaster for Microsoft? Considerig they spent over 1 billion dollar on exclusives and the rights for it, I'd say the odds that Microsoft pulls off a save of their image (in the eyes of the gaming "media") is -200. Meaning I had to bet 200 dollars to get 100 dollars back.

#1711
crimzontearz

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billy the squid wrote...

Yes, yes yes. We've gathered that much, but I don't think people have realised that not linking the Vita to the PS4 will not increase the RAM usage of the PS4 by default as the PS4 is not used for the processing of the game via Gaki.

If you intend to run a game on the Vita, and have the PS4 do the heavy lifting, then duh, of course the Ram usage is going to increase. You're running the game on the PS4 and transfering the calculation via Wi Fi onto the Vita, the PS4 is doing all the work.

that would make the backwards compatibility more reliable reliable I would say ....it makes sense

I am OK with this It means MS is not at THAT much of a disadvantage

#1712
Doctoglethorpe

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People exaggerate the importance of the RAM anyways. Not to say its unimportant, but its not the end-all factor of how good a game is gonna run. And 8GB GDDR5 is a lot, the GPU doesn't need all of it. Even if just half of it was dedicated to graphic processing it would still be golden. The whole point of having the 8GB shared memory was to allow for great multitasking capabilities on top of solid gaming rather then at its cost, things like background downloading and remote play. It wasn't put in there to all be loaded on to the gpu. So yeah, its gonna be sliced out for other functions, that's the point. I've seen people complain about how Kinect does the same for XB1, leeching its coveted ram, again thats the point of such a large amount.

#1713
crimzontearz

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M25105 wrote...

What are the odds that E3 will be a disaster for Microsoft? Considerig they spent over 1 billion dollar on exclusives and the rights for it, I'd say the odds that Microsoft pulls off a save of their image (in the eyes of the gaming "media") is -200. Meaning I had to bet 200 dollars to get 100 dollars back.

with the rumors of Mirror's edge 3 and FO4 being POSSIBLY an exclusive for MS as well as the obvious reveal of halo 5? yeah your bet would be right





also



I hope to god kinect 2 will be used to make a decent halo RTS .....wars was good......but kinect 2 could make it as functional as a PC RTS....flame me if you want but I really believe that

or a mass effect RTS for that matter

#1714
billy the squid

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crimzontearz wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

Yes, yes yes. We've gathered that much, but I don't think people have realised that not linking the Vita to the PS4 will not increase the RAM usage of the PS4 by default as the PS4 is not used for the processing of the game via Gaki.

If you intend to run a game on the Vita, and have the PS4 do the heavy lifting, then duh, of course the Ram usage is going to increase. You're running the game on the PS4 and transfering the calculation via Wi Fi onto the Vita, the PS4 is doing all the work.

that would make the backwards compatibility more reliable reliable I would say ....it makes sense

I am OK with this It means MS is not at THAT much of a disadvantage


Sony already said they don't have backward compatability, hence the use of their live stream to play games on the PS4 possibly PS3 games. The system architecture is massively different from the PS3 to 4. That's the only way to do it I'd think

Not sure how MS is planning to match it, they've said noting about doing something like this. Although concievably they could using Cloud.

#1715
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One of these days they should start having emulator apps for consoles.

#1716
LPPrince

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Total Biscuit's Content Patch- $1,000,000,000 going into MS exclusives, Sony mandates remote play Vita/PS4

#1717
crimzontearz

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billy the squid wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

Yes, yes yes. We've gathered that much, but I don't think people have realised that not linking the Vita to the PS4 will not increase the RAM usage of the PS4 by default as the PS4 is not used for the processing of the game via Gaki.

If you intend to run a game on the Vita, and have the PS4 do the heavy lifting, then duh, of course the Ram usage is going to increase. You're running the game on the PS4 and transfering the calculation via Wi Fi onto the Vita, the PS4 is doing all the work.

that would make the backwards compatibility more reliable reliable I would say ....it makes sense

I am OK with this It means MS is not at THAT much of a disadvantage


Sony already said they don't have backward compatability, hence the use of their live stream to play games on the PS4 possibly PS3 games. The system architecture is massively different from the PS3 to 4. That's the only way to do it I'd think

Not sure how MS is planning to match it, they've said noting about doing something like this. Although concievably they could using Cloud.






It was hinted at already yes


 
Still, good news

#1718
MegaSovereign

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billy the squid wrote...

ImReincarnate wrote...

Im glad I switched to PC a couple months ago. So many of the things that made consoles what they are have been thrown out the window. From what I saw in the release it was pretty much 99.9% geared towards casual gamers. And the fact that you can't buy pre-owned games or at least borrow them from a mate is ridiculous. If I do have to buy a next gen console (which I won't, screw that) it'll most likely be a PS4.


The X1's approach has been to make a crappy PC. At the moment there is absolutely no reason to own an X1 over a PC. It's currently inferior in every way. 

PS4, seems to be the choice for a console, at the moment at least, but there are questions as yet unanswered.


To be fair, PS4's approach is the exact same as the XB1's....except they're using GDDR5 and a marginally better GPU.

#1719
MegaSovereign

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If MS gives me a billion dollars I'll develop homemade card games...Exclusively on Xbox.

#1720
Doctoglethorpe

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billy the squid wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

Yes,
yes yes. We've gathered that much, but I don't think people have
realised that not linking the Vita to the PS4 will not increase the RAM
usage of the PS4 by default as the PS4 is not used for the processing of
the game via Gaki.

If you intend to run a game on the Vita, and
have the PS4 do the heavy lifting, then duh, of course the Ram usage is
going to increase. You're running the game on the PS4 and transfering
the calculation via Wi Fi onto the Vita, the PS4 is doing all the work.

that would make the backwards compatibility more reliable reliable I would say ....it makes sense

I am OK with this It means MS is not at THAT much of a disadvantage


Sony
already said they don't have backward compatability, hence the use of
their live stream to play games on the PS4 possibly PS3 games. The
system architecture is massively different from the PS3 to 4. That's the
only way to do it I'd think

Not sure how MS is planning to match
it, they've said noting about doing something like this. Although
concievably they could using Cloud.







They could both so emulation. 360 did it to a limited degree and The second generation of PS3's did it instead of using a built in chip. For that matter, a built in chip could be added to latter models when price has dropped.

Of course, they would rather be able to resell you the game then let you play the old copies. So its doubtful either of those things will happen. I think, despite the initial promise for cloud gaming ps3 "classics" as a significant thing they want us to look forward to, its not gonna end up all that popular and they will just go back to making what we have now in these HD Remakes. Yes, HD remakes of HD games. SUPERHD. (Seriously though, they could still look way nicer then they do now even if all they do is run em at 1080p/60fps with AA)

Modifié par Doctor Moustache, 30 mai 2013 - 06:43 .


#1721
billy the squid

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MegaSovereign wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

ImReincarnate wrote...

Im glad I switched to PC a couple months ago. So many of the things that made consoles what they are have been thrown out the window. From what I saw in the release it was pretty much 99.9% geared towards casual gamers. And the fact that you can't buy pre-owned games or at least borrow them from a mate is ridiculous. If I do have to buy a next gen console (which I won't, screw that) it'll most likely be a PS4.


The X1's approach has been to make a crappy PC. At the moment there is absolutely no reason to own an X1 over a PC. It's currently inferior in every way. 

PS4, seems to be the choice for a console, at the moment at least, but there are questions as yet unanswered.


To be fair, PS4's approach is the exact same as the XB1's....except they're using GDDR5 and a marginally better GPU.


You mean PS4 has a Kinnect OS system, TV OS and standard system OS as well? That's the main difference, the PS4 doesn't have 3 dedicated OSs running in the back ground. 

#1722
HiddenInWar

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If MS is going to support the X360 for five more years, does that mean ME4 has a shot at being released on both X1 and X360?

#1723
billy the squid

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Doctor Moustache wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

Yes,
yes yes. We've gathered that much, but I don't think people have
realised that not linking the Vita to the PS4 will not increase the RAM
usage of the PS4 by default as the PS4 is not used for the processing of
the game via Gaki.

If you intend to run a game on the Vita, and
have the PS4 do the heavy lifting, then duh, of course the Ram usage is
going to increase. You're running the game on the PS4 and transfering
the calculation via Wi Fi onto the Vita, the PS4 is doing all the work.

that would make the backwards compatibility more reliable reliable I would say ....it makes sense

I am OK with this It means MS is not at THAT much of a disadvantage


Sony
already said they don't have backward compatability, hence the use of
their live stream to play games on the PS4 possibly PS3 games. The
system architecture is massively different from the PS3 to 4. That's the
only way to do it I'd think

Not sure how MS is planning to match
it, they've said noting about doing something like this. Although
concievably they could using Cloud.







They could both so emulation. 360 did it to a limited degree and The second generation of PS3's did it instead of using a built in chip. For that matter, a built in chip could be added to latter models when price has dropped.

Of course, they would rather be able to resell you the game then let you play the old copies. So its doubtful either of those things will happen. I think, despite the initial promise for cloud gaming ps3 "classics" as a significant thing they want us to look forward to, its not gonna end up all that popular and they will just go back to making what we have now in these HD Remakes. Yes, HD remakes of HD games. SUPERHD. (Seriously though, they could still look way nicer then they do now even if all they do is run em at 1080p/60fps with AA)


They could, but I think they would likely move towards a more cost effective modle, ie digital download via their online service, removing the costs of distribution and manufacture. 

I don't think we'll be seeing the "cloud" gaming aspects for a number of years on the PS4 or X1, it's still rather a grey area. Sony seems to be more driven towards that with the Vita system, but I think widespread use of Gaki or cloud is still a way off.

#1724
MegaSovereign

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billy the squid wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

ImReincarnate wrote...

Im glad I switched to PC a couple months ago. So many of the things that made consoles what they are have been thrown out the window. From what I saw in the release it was pretty much 99.9% geared towards casual gamers. And the fact that you can't buy pre-owned games or at least borrow them from a mate is ridiculous. If I do have to buy a next gen console (which I won't, screw that) it'll most likely be a PS4.


The X1's approach has been to make a crappy PC. At the moment there is absolutely no reason to own an X1 over a PC. It's currently inferior in every way. 

PS4, seems to be the choice for a console, at the moment at least, but there are questions as yet unanswered.


To be fair, PS4's approach is the exact same as the XB1's....except they're using GDDR5 and a marginally better GPU.


You mean PS4 has a Kinnect OS system, TV OS and standard system OS as well? That's the main difference, the PS4 doesn't have 3 dedicated OSs running in the back ground. 



That's true, but the memory footprint will more than likely decrease overtime. 5 GB is more than enough for games.

Both consoles are using x86 PC architectures and neither of them are using the absolute best GPU on the market. That's why from a hardware standpoint they're basically "crappy" PCs.

Modifié par MegaSovereign, 30 mai 2013 - 07:02 .


#1725
ShepnTali

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HiddenInWar wrote...

If MS is going to support the X360 for five more years, does that mean ME4 has a shot at being released on both X1 and X360?


Depending on when ME4 would be released, this could make for a tough call, considering I'll probably be waiting atleast a year to pick up a PS4.