4196 réponses à ce sujet

[Armass81]

Suprez30 wrote...

All this stuff about used game and others defending this kind of practice by saying ''It's Digital .. It's does not age like a physical thing!!''. Or worse '' The industry is struggling''... Seriously .. ? are you that naive ?


Firstly it's does age. Movie age and video game age. Secondly when I buy something.. Be it a video game or a car.. It's mine.. I own it. It's my possession. I can wipe my ass with it if I please. it's none of your business. I can sell it and break it. I don't have the copy right, but you're not stopping me to do what the hell I want with this copy and this is exactly what publisher and corporation are trying to do.

The day you have to log in to identify your car on the internet is close. Or worse your house.. What about it ?
hey we want to know when you're pooping. We need to make sure that you're the real owner of the pooping bowl and we take statistic of your pooping habit and sell the information.

They're basicly owning you. Do you want to be owned by them ? Do you want to be regulated by big ass greedy corporation with everything you buy in the future ? Because the future is digital and technology and you really want them to control the thing you purchase and even you ?

Seriously I don't. Imight be over dramatic, but not so far from the truth. They want to know all the time ''How you play game''. It's started with CD key .. Now you need to be all the time connected.

Seriously leave me alone. I want my frigging privacy.

Yes this bothers me too. If I buy a game or a movie or anything, I should have the right to do what i want with it, including borrowing it to a friend wihtout him having to pay for it AGAIN. This is how it used to be, but now they want to dictate what I do with my stuff that I buy from them?! This will not do!

if we allow this, whats stops the other game companies or movie companies of doing the same ****? Greedy pigs.

And online once every 24 hours? What if im going to mountains or cabin on vacation, or taking a trailer into the country and I want to take it with me and play? Or maybe going to middle east as a a soldier? Or live in a country or an area where internet connection is not too good?

And forcing kinect down our throats, I dont give a rats arse about kinect, yet its MANDATORY for the console apparently.  To jack up the price of course... $$$$$$$$$$$$

Seriously Microsoft? Seriously? Who are you selling this thing to? I would have to be a goddamned braindead idiot to buy this piece of thrash after all this...

Modifié par Armass81, 23 mai 2013 - 12:22 .

[Clips7]

Like others have already stated....this is just a bit much. Having accounts locked, fees for used games...all of these restrictions with shady info.."yeah you can do this, only if your friend does that with the exception of this"....and they are doing it with a smile expecting everybody to be on board with it.

Waaay too much going on just for me to be able to sit and play games for a few minutes..and i can't just trade games and let my menz borrow my game on the fly?...without some ridiculous fee attached? I knew something alomg these lines would happen when i saw the very first DLC...from there i knew greed would slowly take over and sadly gamers really have only themselves to blame.

Sony was incredibly arrogant with the ps3 and it seemsthey have learned their lesson somewhat with the ps4, but the jury isn't out on Sony either...all they've stated is that "yes the ps4 can play used games"....i think Sony have mentioned that it will let 3rd party publishers decide if they want to charge fees for used games, which kinda leads me to believe that dev's are pushing that "used fee agenda" very hard.

And if so, how much of that agenda are they willing to use against a company of say like Sony, that might not be on board with it, but just choose to let publishers come up with their own plan for used games...will tyhey not make games for the said system...or does Sony's silence on this means that it too has a similar plan in place?...Sony has the opportunity to jump all over MS, but it can also pretty much wreck console gaming for the foreseable future from here on out if it has a similar business model.

[billy the squid]

Clips7 wrote...

....

Sony was incredibly arrogant with the ps3 and it seemsthey have learned their lesson somewhat with the ps4, but the jury isn't out on Sony either...all they've stated is that "yes the ps4 can play used games"....i think Sony have mentioned that it will let 3rd party publishers decide if they want to charge fees for used games, which kinda leads me to believe that dev's are pushing that "used fee agenda" very hard.

And if so, how much of that agenda are they willing to use against a company of say like Sony, that might not be on board with it, but just choose to let publishers come up with their own plan for used games...will tyhey not make games for the said system...or does Sony's silence on this means that it too has a similar plan in place?...Sony has the opportunity to jump all over MS, but it can also pretty much wreck console gaming for the foreseable future from here on out if it has a similar business model.

I doubt publishers will try and twist Sony's arm, they don't have the weight to do it. The Wii U is out of the running, so trying to force Sony which holds effectively 50% of the market share is a risky proposition and I think they know it. What if Sony just says no, are the publishers that want the console to limit used games not going to supply Sony? they'll essentially cut their market in half. 

I don't see that happening, too much of a risk, especially when they have the option of implementing it themslves, which they've been doing at the moment.

Could Sony try the same thing as MS? Maybe, they've been quiet on the subject, other than to say they will support used games. But what that actually means, is uncertain. Although as it doesn't need an online connection, I'm not sure how PS4 would check the license, which is why the X1 needs to be online every 24 hours and sign the game into the ID online rather than just instal and play. 

[Foxhound2121]

There is absolutely no point now to buy an Xbox one over a PC.

The Xbox one is just a jailbirded, inferior, PC that you instal games on just like a PC. I don't get why anyone would puchase one unless they wanted a shiny xbox symbol in their living room.

Actually, you will save money if you just buy a PC since you don't have subscription fees to use windows. It's not even a console now, it's a PC that is marketed as a console.

I already own a xbox one. All I do is plug my xbox controller into the usb port of my laptop and watch netflix and tv on my bed.

Might as well purchase steambox this summer since there is no subscription fee, cheaper games through steam, and is fully upgradable as technology progresses.


The console advantage is completely gone now for xbox. It's not a console. A massive chunk of the console market plays used games and shares games. That's why people gravitate to it because it is the cheapest alternative in the short term. Sony will now win that entire market because these people will have no where else to go.

Modifié par Foxhound2121, 23 mai 2013 - 12:36 .

[Rusty Sandusky]

Microsoft really shot themselves in the foot with this one. As an avid 360 user (yes I use PC and PS3 too) I have noticed a gradual shift away from the core gaming experience with the console. The xbox one is nothing but a glorified set-top box that focuses on TV, Call of Duty and EA. There will not be experiences like me and a friend bringing over a copy of Gears of War, Halo 3, Mass Effect 1 etc. and beating them to completion. The xbox one is very anti-gamer, as evidenced by it's blocking of used games.

I hardly buy preowned but sometimes it is just a necessity, the extension of this is also a catch-22 in it's 'all family, social' vibe. I share my game consoles with family and suppose I have a family member that wants to use the xbone to play, say, Dragon Age III? THEY HAVE TO PAY MICROSOFT MONEY! That is an even more money grubbing and anti-consumer tactic than even the online pass or always-on DRM, OH WAIT, IT HAS THAT TOO. Live in a place with bad Internet? WELL TOO BAD, you have to check online every 24 hours for the thing to work, oh and TV services don't work outside the US so if you live outside the US like me than a large portion of the xbone becomes useless.

No backwards compatibility because having BC is 'backwards'

It gets better, the xbone comes with Kinect 2.0! Oh, yay I always wanted more kinect he lied. The Kinect 2.0 always has to be connected and can track your body movement, heart rate, speech, and read mouth movements. Don't worry though, M$ haven't changed their name to Ingsocsoft yet.

Did I mention the fact that xbox one is a stupid name. The average consumer will see xbox one next to Xbox 360 and think 360 is better, also I already own an xbox one, I play KotOR and Jade Empire on it. And the xbone looks like a Betamax player from 1984. Complete with telescreen and Party slogans.

In short, 1 step forward, 359 steps back

[ShepnTali]

 According to this, there actually is a bigger power difference between PS4 and Xbox One than I would have thought...

www.pushsquare.com/news/2013/05/playstation_4_has_a_significant_power_advantage_over_xbox_one

[billy the squid]

ShepnTali wrote...

 According to this, there actually is a bigger power difference between PS4 and Xbox One than I would have thought...

www.pushsquare.com/news/2013/05/playstation_4_has_a_significant_power_advantage_over_xbox_one

Yeah, I noticed that when I looked over the specs, didn't realise it was that much though.

Curse of the move they made, being a jack of all trades, without the space, raw power and upgradable nature of a PC. They're stuck. PS4 focused on games and it shows, although it will never be as powerful as a PC, it doesn't have to be, it's not trying to do everything a PC does, that's why it's concept of a console gaming system works. A PC will do everything the xbox will do, and it will do it a hell of a lot better and it get's outperformed by it's rival in console games. That's the X1's problem.

[Obadiah]

They're trying to turn XBox One games into Steam or Origin type games that are tied to an account.

...but I already have Steam and Origin.

Also, I bet all the XBox360 games show up for sale as digital downloads at some point.

Modifié par Obadiah, 23 mai 2013 - 02:03 .

[Brockololly]

Fast Jimmy wrote..
EDIT: Although, for what it's worth, it  won't be running into the same issues other Always Online fiascos (like
Diablo 3 and SimCity) had. This will be a quick check in to make sure  all licenses are valid... there won't be a server you have to play your  games out of as par for the course. 

So it is still a concern, but less of a guaranteed-disaster, in my book.

I don't know. That's basically what everyone that's attempted some kind of  always online thing says- "Oh, don't worry, we totally learned from the  mistakes of Diablo 3 or Ubisoft or SimCity! We got this!" And then it  inevitably crashes and burns on launch day.

Yes, MS probably has more resources and a better handle on things, but things like  having to check in every 24 hours is of zero benefit to the consumer. And I wouldn't be surprised if their "cloud" gaming emphasis is just code for having games with lumped in always online features, not unlike SimCity or Diablo. So the system doesn't technically need to be always online but most of the games end up "requiring" always online for "social" features.

Allan Schumacher wrote...
It makes it more inline with Steam, IMO.  Which was also something that, while still having its critics now, was almost universally derided as something that offered features that were better obtained elsewhere and ultimately was seen as more of a liability than anything worth actually having.  So I think it's something we'll have to see let play out.

I hear people say that with any digital download platform but it rings a bit hollow to me right now. Absolutely, Steam sucked and people hated it when it first came out. And some people still dislike it. But Steam was also the very first big DD platform of its kind, making it the trailblazer of sorts. And it came out close to 10 years ago now.

What we know about Xbone's online structure doesn't really make it that much like Steam, besides adopting the PC model of CD keys, online activations and mandatory installs.

• With Steam, if my internet is out for whatever reason, I can still play games just fine in offline mode. Offline mode was borked for the longest time, but Valve did fix it so it works fine now. Whereas with Xbone, if  I have a multday outage or am moving between apartments or changing ISPs, you're out of luck.
• WIth respect to used games, that is usually a big issue with pricing- get a used game cheaper than a new copy. With Steam, you have tons of Steam sales, either directly through Steam or via Amazon or GMG. Has MS shown any drive to do that kind of competitive pricing digitally thus far? Why would they start if they have their own walled garden?
• Valve hasn't shut down any of their servers, killing off old games. While MS kept the original Xbox online going for a while, they did eventually kill it.
• Steam is free. Anyone can download the client and buy games on it. MS has charged for LIve in the past. Will they charge for Live for Xbone?
• With PC gaming and Steam, you basically have infinite backwards compatability. Xbone? No backwards compatability.
• Steam officially supports the modding community with Steam Workshop. Is MS going to support modding?
• More broadly, even if you don't like Steam, on PC you have other DD options. Will those be present on Xbone? Currently, MS has a monopoly on selling anything digitally on their platform.. There is no competition.
• Games on Steam can be updated as much as the developer pleases, whereas MS has a history of making patches for games on their consolesa costly endeavor.
• And at this point, Valve is more trusted by me than I trust MS. Trust is a big deal with any digital download service.

Allan Schumacher wrote...
I'm also curious if there's simply some level of "inertia of status quo" at play.  It's different, and may be easier to focus on worst case negatives rather than even considering fringe benefits (let alone best case benefits).

Sure, for consoles epsecially. It looks like MS taking what has been the norm for PC gamers for years. But it also takes away one of the nice aspects of console gaming- it's simplicity. You stick a disk in the system and you play. Yet now you're having a more PC like experience in having to stick the disk in, enter a CD key, authenticate online, install to your hard drive and so forth. So you're doing all of that PC stuff without any of the other fringe benefits you'd have by being on an open platform like a PC. I'm not saying XBone won't have other console exclusive benefits, but nothing they mentioned Tuesday lept out to me from a gaming POV as being some great advantage.

Allan Schumacher wrote...
From what I hear, it sounds like they tried to make it clear that E3 is where they were going to focus most of their gaming discussion, however, so it's hard for me to not see a lot of the initial outrage as being some level of Chicken Little screaming.

Its not so much what they said in the conference that has people upset, its what they said or didn't say after the conference that has people down on the Xbone. Stuff like needing Kinect operating all the time for the console to even work (what if your Kinect breaks?), the whole thing about how they'll handle used games and how confused MS even seems with their messaging there, the whole thing about it needing to phone home every 24 hours and so forth. MS has had some awful messaging post conference and just showing off some games at E3 won't lay some of those concerns to rest.

Modifié par Brockololly, 23 mai 2013 - 02:23 .

[Lt_Riley]

This new xbox is an offensive invasion of privacy. The kinect camera and microphone will be constantly monitoring its owner and sending anonymous data back to microsoft HQ. I recommend not buying one. I don't want big brother in my home.

[mickey111]

ShepnTali wrote...

"Product is not ment for you if thats the case.  Buy a PS4.  Everyone else, stop complaining like it affects you.  It doesn't, hipsters."


It kind of does, or can. If it takes root, higher the chances it will spread to other consoles down the line.

Consoles are like the presidential election. It affects every other country in some way, whether they live in america or not.

[MerinTB]

Brockololly wrote...
I hear people say that with any digital download platform but it rings a bit hollow to me right now. Absolutely, Steam sucked and people hated it when it first came out. And some people still dislike it. But Steam was also the very first big DD platform of its kind, making it the trailblazer of sorts. And it came out close to 10 years ago now.

What we know about Xbone's online structure doesn't really make it that much like Steam, besides adopting the PC model of CD keys, online activations and mandatory installs.

• With Steam, if my internet is out for whatever reason, I can still play games just fine in offline mode. Offline mode was borked for the longest time, but Valve did fix it so it works fine now. Whereas with Xbone, if  I have a multday outage or am moving between apartments or changing ISPs, you're out of luck.
• WIth respect to used games, that is usually a big issue with pricing- get a used game cheaper than a new copy. With Steam, you have tons of Steam sales, either directly through Steam or via Amazon or GMG. Has MS shown any drive to do that kind of competitive pricing digitally thus far? Why would they start if they have their own walled garden?
• Valve hasn't shut down any of their servers, killing off old games. While MS kept the original Xbox online going for a while, they did eventually kill it.
• Steam is free. Anyone can download the client and buy games on it. MS has charged for LIve in the past. Will they charge for Live for Xbone?
• With PC gaming and Steam, you basically have infinite backwards compatability. Xbone? No backwards compatability.
• Steam officially supports the modding community with Steam Workshop. Is MS going to support modding?
• More broadly, even if you don't like Steam, on PC you have other DD options. Will those be present on Xbone? Currently, MS has a monopoly on selling anything digitally on their platform.. There is no competition.
• Games on Steam can be updated as much as the developer pleases, whereas MS has a history of making patches for games on their consolesa costly endeavor.
• And at this point, Valve is more trusted by me than I trust MS. Trust is a big deal with any digital download service.

Yes. Thank you. What MS is offering with Xbox One is NOT Steam in all but he most SUPERFICIAL of comparisons.

[Foxhound2121]

Obadiah wrote...

They're trying to turn XBox One games into Steam or Origin type games that are tied to an account.

...but I already have Steam and Origin.

Also, I bet all the XBox360 games show up for sale as digital downloads at some point.

That's great. Not only do you have to pay FULL price just to borrow a game, but you also have to pay FULL price to play a game you already own.

[Ryzaki]

Foxhound2121 wrote...

There is absolutely no point now to buy an Xbox one over a PC.

The Xbox one is just a jailbirded, inferior, PC that you instal games on just like a PC. I don't get why anyone would puchase one unless they wanted a shiny xbox symbol in their living room.

Actually, you will save money if you just buy a PC since you don't have subscription fees to use windows. It's not even a console now, it's a PC that is marketed as a console.

I already own a xbox one. All I do is plug my xbox controller into the usb port of my laptop and watch netflix and tv on my bed.

Might as well purchase steambox this summer since there is no subscription fee, cheaper games through steam, and is fully upgradable as technology progresses.


The console advantage is completely gone now for xbox. It's not a console. A massive chunk of the console market plays used games and shares games. That's why people gravitate to it because it is the cheapest alternative in the short term. Sony will now win that entire market because these people will have no where else to go.

Yeah I just...why did MS *whoops sorry about the BW   think a mediocre PC would be desirable instead of a good console?

Modifié par Ryzaki, 24 mai 2013 - 07:12 .

[Eternal Napalm]

J. Reezy wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Can't help but agree with this.

Ditto

Brilliant article. Loved how they touched on forcing demand instead of observing it.

[MerinTB]

Eternal Napalm wrote...

J. Reezy wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Can't help but agree with this.

Ditto

Brilliant article. Loved how they touched on forcing demand instead of observing it.

Excellent indeed.

"The existing consumer demand to interrupt TV with Skype calls, and a
hand-gesture controlled Internet Explorer, can only be described as
fictional."

classic.

[milena87]

Armass81 wrote...

And online once every 24 hours? What if im going to mountains or cabin on vacation, or taking a trailer into the country and I want to take it with me and play? Or maybe going to middle east as a a soldier? Or live in a country or an area where internet connection is not too good? 

This really bothers me too. Our mountain home doesn't have internet and we spend there 2-3 months each year.

This thing and the fee for used copies are a deal breaker for me, as I usually give all my games to my brother and/or sister after I'm finished with them. I certainly don't think that they should pay for the game again.

I also don't like the forced Kinect. I wasn't interested before when it was optional, I'm surely not interested in having it now without the possibility of turning it off.

Meh...I guess I'll wait for the Steambox for my relaxed gaming and maybe grab a PS4 when the inevitable Slim version appears.

edit: and all those media services? Totally useless if you live in a country like Italy, where none of those features are available and the internet connections outside of the usual big cities are extremely limited. The hell am I going to stream over a 1mb connection?

Modifié par milena87, 23 mai 2013 - 03:35 .

[Degs29]

I don't understand the level of hate Microsoft is garnering right now.  I mean, people are downright pissed off.  It's visceral.  People are swearing and ranting on youtube and boards all over the place.  I simply don't think Microsoft deserves it.

I'm disappointed about the used games thing and the internet connection thing, but understand why they did it.  I don't really like the name, but I see why they went for it.  I don't like them focusing too much on anything other than games, but all those add-ons could be very useful to me.

My reaction to the reveal has been mild, so I just can't understand the implosion that is the gamer community right now.

[redBadger14]

Lt_Riley wrote...

This new xbox is an offensive invasion of privacy. The kinect camera and microphone will be constantly monitoring its owner and sending anonymous data back to microsoft HQ. I recommend not buying one. I don't want big brother in my home.

This is a fallacy. No one said it will constantly be monitoring us. All that was said was that:

a) It needs to be connected to the X1 for the console to operate, and
It can monitor and send collected data to Microsoft

This more than likely only amounts to voice commands, I refuse to believe Microsoft would be so stupid as to record video of us hell, I doubt the Kinect camera can even record video, it will probably just keep track of voice commands.

As for the Kinect requirement, Microsoft hasn't made it clear if it just needs to be used once to begin operation, and then voice and video can subsequently disabled, or anything really. People need to chill and wait for E3.

In fact I find it hilarious that no one is criticising Sony. It's cute that people think they won't focus on other forms of entertainment with PS4, you can bet on them talking about that at E3 as opposed to games. Sony has pushed entertainment more vigorously than Microsoft has.

Oh yeah, and the negative reaction X1 is receiving is exactly the same as when Xbox 360 was announced back in 2005. "Sony conference was better, MS doesn't care about games, etc." and look at the 360 now.

This reveal is no place to make final judgments on this product, or the PS4 for that matter.

[cJohnOne]

If the guys who buy the Xbox One thinks it's complete and utter garbage then we'll know.

[Eternal Napalm]

Eh, defend the thing all you want. Understanding what they did with used games when basically anything of realistic value has a free-flowing secondhand market is difficult to rationalize. Those who swear to the logo of Xbox, enjoy. Consumers are simply reacting naturally to the absurdity.

Modifié par Eternal Napalm, 23 mai 2013 - 04:01 .

[billy the squid]

No one has to criticise Sony, yet. They haven't made a facepalmingly stupid move like MS has. But, after this sh*t storm, I bet the PS4 team is not doing high fives over MS' botched antics, rather I'd think they're more apprehensive due to the ire of the internet being roused over this and all attention being on them. The expectation that they will do what MS hasn't is foremost in the collective mind of the net, and they're likely to receive similar treatment, if they haven't got themselves sorted.

E3 waiting is a cop out, they made their presentation and opened themselves up for judgement, they were found wanting. It's like trying to close the door once the horse has bolted. So they're going to have to do a hell of a job with the exclusives to convince people to overlook the mess of a console system they have created. The reveals are the point of product judgment, it's where the system operation and hardware is looked at, and MS is unfortunately inferior to the PS4, by a marked degree, due to the systems generalised attitude.

E3 is just extras, what bits of software will they have available, it doesn't change anything about the Xbox's problems. PS3's reveal was a better console, but the arrogance, and badly designed architecture of the system ensured that people moved to the 360, because it was a better alternative. The same thing happens here, in the next gen.

All Sony has to do is not screw up spectacularly and they've effectively won. Wii U is out of the running and performed poorly. MS looks to have taken a leaf out of the Wii U's book and created a generalised system, and it's getting torn a new one. Sony, has focused on games primarily and the additions enhance and revolve around that key point. The opposite is true of MS, that the issue.

[ShepnTali]

All things being equal, there is no conceivable razzle dazzle Microsoft can pull off at E3. They'll present games like everyone else. Some will like theirs, some will like Sony's. Nintendo will dazzle their faithful fans. Short of possibly something like Star Wars exclusivity, the hole they are currently in with gamers, is too deep.

[Lt_Riley]

redBadger14 wrote...

This is a fallacy. No one said it will constantly be monitoring us. All that was said was that:

a) It needs to be connected to the X1 for the console to operate, and
It can monitor and send collected data to Microsoft

Your statement is a contradiction of itself. but if you need further assurance link

This more than likely only amounts to voice commands, I refuse to believe Microsoft would be so stupid as to record video of us hell, I doubt the Kinect camera can even record video, it will probably just keep track of voice commands.

• To remain operational, the console requires a mandatory internet connection to send collected data to microsoft.
• The console can't be turned off, it keeps itself operational via varying power states;
• Microsoft says the kinect camera can be disabled via the console, but if it's ever physically unplugged, the console will stop working. Now seeing as the kinect is a seperate piece of hardware that's only intended use is for playing kinect games; this is garbage. I'm sure the camera won't continue running silently collecting that anonymous data at the users ignorance.
• The mic can't be disabled via console or manually; microsoft has made it no secret that it's always listening.

So all that trouble just to record some voice commands huh? Whatever puts you at ease.

As for the Kinect requirement, Microsoft hasn't made it clear if it just needs to be used once to begin operation, and then voice and video can subsequently disabled, or anything really. People need to chill and wait for E3.

Yes they have. It's always watching.

Oh yeah, and the negative reaction X1 is receiving is exactly the same as when Xbox 360 was announced back in 2005. "Sony conference was better, MS doesn't care about games, etc." and look at the 360 now.

This reveal is no place to make final judgments on this product, or the PS4 for that matter.

The xbox 360 received negative press due to technical issues, such as over heating and failing power sources. recording people via audio & visual in their own homes in the name of combating piracy is in a whole other ball park.

Modifié par Lt_Riley, 23 mai 2013 - 04:30 .

[Anacronian Stryx]

Be free, Play PC!