4196 réponses à ce sujet

[GodChildInTheMachine]

J. Reezy wrote...

ShepnTali wrote...

Then what's the point of next gen if it can be done on current or last gen?

In the past there were game ideas that couldn't be done on an older gen. An example of this is Hideo Kojima pretty much creating the stealth genre because of technical limitations of the hardware at the time that didn't allow a lot of action on screen. Or Super Mario moving into 3 dimensions because of the technical advancements of the N64. My point is that meaningful game design has stagnated despite advancements in graphics in recent years. Pushing the pretty 'splosions to the next level hasn't done anything so i question if we even need a next-gen after this point if all we're getting is more photorealistic graphics.

That's a false dilemma. Increases in graphical performance are not necessarily to blame for a lack of innovation in gameplay mechanics, nor is a lack of technical capability necessary for innovation to occur.

Your logic is faulty.  

[slimgrin]

Graphics aren't holding games back. Hard Reset was an indie game with some of the best graphics of 2011, don't think for a second they had the budget and man power of a major AAA dev. Gianna Sisters is another good example - amazing visuals, indie game.

[Salamander Soup]

LPPrince wrote...

RaenImrahl wrote...

As the OP has been permabanned for being an alt account of a previous user... I've taken the liberty of renaming this thread as something a bit less polarizing. Please, however, carry on with the discussion.

LPPrince...the top Microsoft fanboy and apologist on these forums. He wishes the E3 2013 thread was a Microsoft game orgy of love and flowers, and he's marketing Fable hardcore. Why the smiley? Lol. No doubt he was the report monkey.

Modifié par Salamander Soup, 08 juin 2013 - 01:10 .

[MegaSovereign]

Sorry Bane, I might get a Wii U after all.

[ShepnTali]

Except 'Pretty explosions' and advanced graphical power is a big mainstream selling point. If it's not there, it's noticed. That's the point. I am in full agreement with you, and I could live quite happily with my PS2 forever, forgetting next gen altogether, but I'm going to want future games for the games unfortunately. If we were still in the PS2 cycle for 20 more years, I'd be perfectly satisfied. But this has gone way beyond the scope of original intent.

[Salamander Soup]

Angry Joe's second video was terrific.

[ShepnTali]

J. Reezy wrote...

GodChildInTheMachine wrote...

J. Reezy wrote...

ShepnTali wrote...

Then what's the point of next gen if it can be done on current or last gen?

In the past there were game ideas that couldn't be done on an older gen. An example of this is Hideo Kojima pretty much creating the stealth genre because of technical limitations of the hardware at the time that didn't allow a lot of action on screen. Or Super Mario moving into 3 dimensions because of the technical advancements of the N64. My point is that meaningful game design has stagnated despite advancements in graphics in recent years. Pushing the pretty 'splosions to the next level hasn't done anything so i question if we even need a next-gen after this point if all we're getting is more photorealistic graphics.

That's a false dilemma. Increases in graphical performance are not necessarily to blame for a lack of innovation in gameplay mechanics, nor is a lack of technical capability necessary for innovation to occur.

Your logic is faulty.  

If that was my exact logic, it would be. You're misinterpreting what I'm saying.

Welcome to my world.

[Ravensword]

J. Reezy wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Graphics aren't holding games back. Hard Reset was an indie game with some of the best graphics of 2011, don't think for a second they had the budget and man power of a major AAA dev. Gianna Sisters is another good example - amazing visuals, indie game.

Again, not my point. My point, or more approrpriately, question is why do we need to continue to push graphics? Why can't we be happy setting a graphical plateau of say, this past gen. I doubt improved graphics will offer a significant change in game design at this point. We're not dealing with Mario moving from 2D to 3D anymore.

To make games look more realistic and w/ pretty visuals. There's really no other reason than that.

[slimgrin]

Ravensword wrote...

J. Reezy wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Graphics aren't holding games back. Hard Reset was an indie game with some of the best graphics of 2011, don't think for a second they had the budget and man power of a major AAA dev. Gianna Sisters is another good example - amazing visuals, indie game.

Again, not my point. My point, or more approrpriately, question is why do we need to continue to push graphics? Why can't we be happy setting a graphical plateau of say, this past gen. I doubt improved graphics will offer a significant change in game design at this point. We're not dealing with Mario moving from 2D to 3D anymore.

To make games look more realistic and w/ pretty visuals. There's really no other reason than that.

Maybe it's because I'm an artist, but I feel that's a valid reason. Graphics can help to immerse you in a game world. Just as sound design, dialog, etc. If it's as resource heavy as commonly cited, then you wouldn't have indie games that look a lot better than C.O.D and Skyrim. 

[GodChildInTheMachine]

The reason that graphics have become such a metric isn't because they have come to define the quality of a game or generation, it's because it's easy to market. GPUs are constantly getting more powerful, and rendering tools are constantly getting easier to use. It's not like a developer has to focus on either graphics or gameplay, they just hope to wow people with shiny screen shots and safely stick to the same gaming formulas.

They don't innovate because they don't want to take risks. Graphics are a risk free investment for them, but changing up accepted formulas may or may not work. Graphical improvement isn't at all to blame, it's just a convenient thing that they can point to to say, "Hey, we're always getting better!".

[slimgrin]

GodChildInTheMachine wrote...

The reason that graphics have become such a metric isn't because they have come to define the quality of a game or generation, it's because it's easy to market. GPUs are constantly getting more powerful, and rendering tools are constantly getting easier to use. It's not like a developer has to focus on either graphics or gameplay, they just hope to wow people with shiny screen shots and safely stick to the same gaming formulas.

They don't innovate because they don't want to take risks. Graphics are a risk free investment for them, but changing up accepted formulas may or may not work. Graphical improvement isn't at all to blame, it's just a convenient thing that they can point to to say, "Hey, we're always getting better!".

Goddamn, this right here.

[Bekkael]

ShepnTali wrote...

New game trailer today. Doesn't look like a winner here. Maybe fun, who knows. Very poor graphical power showing for sure. Xbox One has more potential than this.

Lococycle Xbox One trailer

Ehhhh... That is really ugly. It also looks pretty silly, which is fine if people like that sort of thing, but I can't buy any game that will make my eyeballs bleed. That's the whole reason I have never been able to finish even one playthrough of Morrowind on my original xbox.

Angry Joe pretty much summed up all of my objections to the X1 in his second rant. I agree with him absolutely. I'm afraid Sony is going to do the same anti-consumer junk, and I'm just really hope to be wrong on that. It's a bleak outlook from where I'm sitting for those of us who love to console game, want to own a sizeable library, and want to be able to play our games regardless of whether our internet craps out or not. SMH.

Has anyone looked into the Ouya?

[MegaSovereign]

Ofcourse graphics matter. I get excited everytime I hear a last-gen classic is being remade with HD graphics.

The PS3 and 360 are great consoles, but from a development standpoint they have many bottlenecks. Huge, great games like Skyrim barely worked on PS3 because of its bassackwards split RAM. And a lot of developers have had enough with the limited DVD storage of the Xbox 360 game disc.

I think MS and Sony would much rather stick to current gen systems since they're much more profitable now than they were 6 years ago, but they can't do that because the hardware will eventually become obsolete.

[Ravensword]

GodChildInTheMachine wrote...

The reason that graphics have become such a metric isn't because they have come to define the quality of a game or generation, it's because it's easy to market. GPUs are constantly getting more powerful, and rendering tools are constantly getting easier to use. It's not like a developer has to focus on either graphics or gameplay, they just hope to wow people with shiny screen shots and safely stick to the same gaming formulas.

They don't innovate because they don't want to take risks. Graphics are a risk free investment for them, but changing up accepted formulas may or may not work. Graphical improvement isn't at all to blame, it's just a convenient thing that they can point to to say, "Hey, we're always getting better!".

But shiny graphics =/= quality game.

[Pordis Shepard]

Bekkael wrote...
<snip>
Has anyone looked into the Ouya?

Not really looked into it seriously, but for the price I'm thinking I might just support them anyway.

[Bekkael]

Pordis Shepard wrote...

Bekkael wrote...
<snip>
Has anyone looked into the Ouya?

Not really looked into it seriously, but for the price I'm thinking I might just support them anyway.

It certainly sounds like it could be fun. I was especially thinking some of my little people might enjoy it, and sheesh, for that price....can you really go wrong? I also like that it states you can try any game for free to see if you like it. I think that's an awesome idea.

[LPPrince]

MegaSovereign wrote...

I think MS and Sony would much rather stick to current gen systems since they're much more profitable now than they were 6 years ago, but they can't do that because the hardware will eventually become obsolete.

Aye, but they've both done well moving forward hardware wise, Sony not splitting their RAM like they did last time, and Microsoft supporting Blu-Rays so games don't have to be limited to DVDs with less space.

Props to both on those fronts.

[HiddenInWar]

ShepnTali wrote...

New game trailer today. Doesn't look like a winner here. Maybe fun, who knows. Very poor graphical power showing for sure. Xbox One has more potential than this.

Lococycle Xbox One trailer

If this is one of the 15 exclusives MS is talking about, I eagerly await angry joes opinion. 

[ShepnTali]

Pordis Shepard wrote...

Bekkael wrote...
<snip>
Has anyone looked into the Ouya?

Not really looked into it seriously, but for the price I'm thinking I might just support them anyway.

Is this a streaming box? If so, I dread it. I dread the whole cloud concept of gaming. I dread it for PS4. I'll keep buying old, used hardware for older games if I have to. Guess I'll get a test run eventually to see how it shakes out.