393 réponses à ce sujet

[AuraLancer]

The funny thing is, a sequel would be far less complicated to sort out with the original endings.

[crimzontearz]

AuraLancer wrote...

The funny thing is, a sequel would be far less complicated to sort out with the original endings.

possibly

but it won't make a difference

[Tonymac]

Morocco Mole wrote...

You say I made a non sequitur argument and then decide to spiral into the tired and stupid artistic integrity rant. nice job.

Your argument IS non sequitor!  Shep did not have to die in order to not be in the next game.  Why is this point not sinking in?  Bioware chose to kill him - pretty much the most insulting thing that can be done to the fan who is the hero of the story.

Then I went into the rant that is against Biowares attitude.  You can call it old hat, tired, stupid - whatever you like.  What I was trying to point out is that they have lost touch with the fans, good storytelling, and worst of all - fun. 

I wish to make this point so that Bioware can be sure to pick up on it.  I want them to go back to the basics of what made the Mass Effect franchaise so wonderful and fun.  I want them to succeed and excel at making wonderful and fun games that captured the imagination and made the fans crave every single detail of the game.  We used to live and breathe this game in the ME Universe.  I had over 40 run throughs in ME2.  I have the N7 polos, Normandy models - tons of stuff.  After that ending, I don't even want to see that junk anymore.  All those momentos do is bring back memories of a sucktastical ending.  Maybe I didn't want it to end, you know.  I get that.  But it would have been a lot easier to let go if the game had an ending that wasn't just insulting.

[crimzontearz]

Tonymac wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

You say I made a non sequitur argument and then decide to spiral into the tired and stupid artistic integrity rant. nice job.

Your argument IS non sequitor!  Shep did not have to die in order to not be in the next game.  Why is this point not sinking in?  Bioware chose to kill him - pretty much the most insulting thing that can be done to the fan who is the hero of the story.

Then I went into the rant that is against Biowares attitude.  You can call it old hat, tired, stupid - whatever you like.  What I was trying to point out is that they have lost touch with the fans, good storytelling, and worst of all - fun. 

I wish to make this point so that Bioware can be sure to pick up on it.  I want them to go back to the basics of what made the Mass Effect franchaise so wonderful and fun.  I want them to succeed and excel at making wonderful and fun games that captured the imagination and made the fans crave every single detail of the game.  We used to live and breathe this game in the ME Universe.  I had over 40 run throughs in ME2.  I have the N7 polos, Normandy models - tons of stuff.  After that ending, I don't even want to see that junk anymore.  All those momentos do is bring back memories of a sucktastical ending.  Maybe I didn't want it to end, you know.  I get that.  But it would have been a lot easier to let go if the game had an ending that wasn't just insulting.

he is trying to make you pass for a hater to strawman you

[Tonymac]

crimzontearz wrote...

Tonymac wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

You say I made a non sequitur argument and then decide to spiral into the tired and stupid artistic integrity rant. nice job.

Your argument IS non sequitor!  Shep did not have to die in order to not be in the next game.  Why is this point not sinking in?  Bioware chose to kill him - pretty much the most insulting thing that can be done to the fan who is the hero of the story.

Then I went into the rant that is against Biowares attitude.  You can call it old hat, tired, stupid - whatever you like.  What I was trying to point out is that they have lost touch with the fans, good storytelling, and worst of all - fun. 

I wish to make this point so that Bioware can be sure to pick up on it.  I want them to go back to the basics of what made the Mass Effect franchaise so wonderful and fun.  I want them to succeed and excel at making wonderful and fun games that captured the imagination and made the fans crave every single detail of the game.  We used to live and breathe this game in the ME Universe.  I had over 40 run throughs in ME2.  I have the N7 polos, Normandy models - tons of stuff.  After that ending, I don't even want to see that junk anymore.  All those momentos do is bring back memories of a sucktastical ending.  Maybe I didn't want it to end, you know.  I get that.  But it would have been a lot easier to let go if the game had an ending that wasn't just insulting.

he is trying to make you pass for a hater to strawman you

What he is doing is trolling.   Do the devs just hire these guys, or log in on fake accounts?

[crimzontearz]

Tonymac wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

Tonymac wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

You say I made a non sequitur argument and then decide to spiral into the tired and stupid artistic integrity rant. nice job.

Your argument IS non sequitor!  Shep did not have to die in order to not be in the next game.  Why is this point not sinking in?  Bioware chose to kill him - pretty much the most insulting thing that can be done to the fan who is the hero of the story.

Then I went into the rant that is against Biowares attitude.  You can call it old hat, tired, stupid - whatever you like.  What I was trying to point out is that they have lost touch with the fans, good storytelling, and worst of all - fun. 

I wish to make this point so that Bioware can be sure to pick up on it.  I want them to go back to the basics of what made the Mass Effect franchaise so wonderful and fun.  I want them to succeed and excel at making wonderful and fun games that captured the imagination and made the fans crave every single detail of the game.  We used to live and breathe this game in the ME Universe.  I had over 40 run throughs in ME2.  I have the N7 polos, Normandy models - tons of stuff.  After that ending, I don't even want to see that junk anymore.  All those momentos do is bring back memories of a sucktastical ending.  Maybe I didn't want it to end, you know.  I get that.  But it would have been a lot easier to let go if the game had an ending that wasn't just insulting.

he is trying to make you pass for a hater to strawman you

What he is doing is trolling.   Do the devs just hire these guys, or log in on fake accounts?

doubtful but EA has done crap like that before

[Sajuro]

I'm at the point where if making an ending canon pisses people off, so be it. People are going to be pissed off no matter what Bioware does and it's not like they haven't made multiple ending games with canon choices before

[crimzontearz]

Sajuro wrote...

I'm at the point where if making an ending canon pisses people off, so be it. People are going to be pissed off no matter what Bioware does and it's not like they haven't made multiple ending games with canon choices before

as I said...this will go down as deus ex

[Sajuro]

Tonymac wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

Shepard was never going to appear in any sequels anyway. So it doesn't really that s/he dies and can't have babies with whoever you romanced

Its not about having Shep appear in any future games - this is a non sequitir argument.  Shep does not have to appear in any future games at all.

What is at stake is Bioware not knowing how to write an ending.   I play to Win.  Bioware specifically decided NOT to let us win - and rubbed our faces in it.  "Artistic Integrity" is what they said while doing the helicopter trick and flipping us off.  The whole time they have had a bad attitude because so few liked their supposedly new and wonderful endings.  

Bioware needs to reconnect with their fans.  They need to hire decent writers.  They need to get back on the ball and try to do what they used to be good at - making good games.   People would not be trying so hard to connect with Bioware to let them know unless we wanted Bioware to get the point.  People would not try to fix the game on their own (MEHEM) unless they loved the series and (most) of the game.  Bioware should try listening and working with the fans rather than ignoring them and playing the 'artistic integrity' card.

They might sit around and try to fool themselves that those endings were new, cool, wonderful, high minded artsy...  but in reality they sucked hard.  A lot of fans tried to express that - but all Bioware did was stick to their guns.  Now that Bioware is trying to rebuild and move on, they (should) realise that not listening has hurt them.

They burned a lot of bridges with that sucky attitude and terrible writing.  While I might someday be able to forgive them, I will certainly not forget.  Ever.

and if we don't agree with you 100%, we are sheeple?

[crimzontearz]

Sajuro wrote...

Tonymac wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

Shepard was never going to appear in any sequels anyway. So it doesn't really that s/he dies and can't have babies with whoever you romanced

Its not about having Shep appear in any future games - this is a non sequitir argument.  Shep does not have to appear in any future games at all.

What is at stake is Bioware not knowing how to write an ending.   I play to Win.  Bioware specifically decided NOT to let us win - and rubbed our faces in it.  "Artistic Integrity" is what they said while doing the helicopter trick and flipping us off.  The whole time they have had a bad attitude because so few liked their supposedly new and wonderful endings.  

Bioware needs to reconnect with their fans.  They need to hire decent writers.  They need to get back on the ball and try to do what they used to be good at - making good games.   People would not be trying so hard to connect with Bioware to let them know unless we wanted Bioware to get the point.  People would not try to fix the game on their own (MEHEM) unless they loved the series and (most) of the game.  Bioware should try listening and working with the fans rather than ignoring them and playing the 'artistic integrity' card.

They might sit around and try to fool themselves that those endings were new, cool, wonderful, high minded artsy...  but in reality they sucked hard.  A lot of fans tried to express that - but all Bioware did was stick to their guns.  Now that Bioware is trying to rebuild and move on, they (should) realise that not listening has hurt them.

They burned a lot of bridges with that sucky attitude and terrible writing.  While I might someday be able to forgive them, I will certainly not forget.  Ever.

and if we don't agree with you 100%, we are sheeple?

no, he is not arguing for your agreement. He is arguing because his interlocutor is being a bit dense

[Tonymac]

crimzontearz wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

Tonymac wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

Shepard was never going to appear in any sequels anyway. So it doesn't really that s/he dies and can't have babies with whoever you romanced

Its not about having Shep appear in any future games - this is a non sequitir argument.  Shep does not have to appear in any future games at all.

What is at stake is Bioware not knowing how to write an ending.   I play to Win.  Bioware specifically decided NOT to let us win - and rubbed our faces in it.  "Artistic Integrity" is what they said while doing the helicopter trick and flipping us off.  The whole time they have had a bad attitude because so few liked their supposedly new and wonderful endings.  

Bioware needs to reconnect with their fans.  They need to hire decent writers.  They need to get back on the ball and try to do what they used to be good at - making good games.   People would not be trying so hard to connect with Bioware to let them know unless we wanted Bioware to get the point.  People would not try to fix the game on their own (MEHEM) unless they loved the series and (most) of the game.  Bioware should try listening and working with the fans rather than ignoring them and playing the 'artistic integrity' card.

They might sit around and try to fool themselves that those endings were new, cool, wonderful, high minded artsy...  but in reality they sucked hard.  A lot of fans tried to express that - but all Bioware did was stick to their guns.  Now that Bioware is trying to rebuild and move on, they (should) realise that not listening has hurt them.

They burned a lot of bridges with that sucky attitude and terrible writing.  While I might someday be able to forgive them, I will certainly not forget.  Ever.

and if we don't agree with you 100%, we are sheeple?

no, he is not arguing for your agreement. He is arguing because his interlocutor is being a bit dense

Do you see how they resort to insults rather than discussion?  This is why the BSN will always be what it is.  There is no discussion from them, just potshots.   If you get a good discussion going, the trolls come out in herds - or gaggles - or whatever a group of trolls on rampage is called.

No wonder Bioware never listens.

[Iakus]

Tonymac wrote...

Do you see how they resort to insults rather than discussion?  This is why the BSN will always be what it is.  There is no discussion from them, just potshots.   If you get a good discussion going, the trolls come out in herds - or gaggles - or whatever a group of trolls on rampage is called.

No wonder Bioware never listens.

And yet it's our fault for making the forums "toxic" 

[crimzontearz]

iakus wrote...

Tonymac wrote...

Do you see how they resort to insults rather than discussion?  This is why the BSN will always be what it is.  There is no discussion from them, just potshots.   If you get a good discussion going, the trolls come out in herds - or gaggles - or whatever a group of trolls on rampage is called.

No wonder Bioware never listens.

And yet it's our fault for making the forums "toxic" 

yeah...I love how Bioware Devs now say the forums are toxic.....I have been here since before ME1 was released and the toxicity was never here until ME3 was released (albeit people started being suspicious once Bioware started sporting a leather collar with a tag on it that read "Property of EA")

[AresKeith]

iakus wrote...

Tonymac wrote...

Do you see how they resort to insults rather than discussion?  This is why the BSN will always be what it is.  There is no discussion from them, just potshots.   If you get a good discussion going, the trolls come out in herds - or gaggles - or whatever a group of trolls on rampage is called.

No wonder Bioware never listens.

And yet it's our fault for making the forums "toxic" 

To be fair, its the fault of people on both sides

[ruggly]

I'm guessing that if they do, they would feel that they would have to canonize an ending which would, more likely than not, cause yet another uproar. Didn't DE mash all the endings together? They could try and do that.

I think it's possible, it would just be difficult.

[Iakus]

ruggly wrote...

I'm guessing that if they do, they would feel that they would have to canonize an ending which would, more likely than not, cause yet another uproar. Didn't DE mash all the endings together? They could try and do that.

I think it's possible, it would just be difficult.

Deus Ex 2 did try snd smash all three endings together, and it came out a laughable mess.

I say if this was an attemtpt otorch the franchise, let them.  Clear away the old Mass Effect and rebuild a new one.  A better one.

a coherent one.

[Tonymac]

AresKeith wrote...

iakus wrote...

Tonymac wrote...

Do you see how they resort to insults rather than discussion?  This is why the BSN will always be what it is.  There is no discussion from them, just potshots.   If you get a good discussion going, the trolls come out in herds - or gaggles - or whatever a group of trolls on rampage is called.

No wonder Bioware never listens.

And yet it's our fault for making the forums "toxic" 

To be fair, its the fault of people on both sides

This is true - on both sides - as well as Crimzontears' post.  The forums were never as toxic as they were after ME3 endings discussion started.  Some people say the endings are ok, some say they suck - and it spirals downhill into the port-a-john of name calling, potshots and general toxicity.   People cannot seem to agree to disagree.

The LI forums used to be one that was fun to discuss on.  For me, I like to see the game, experience it, and even do fanfic.  The LI forums were good for getting ideas together, having discussions - until the attacks started once ME3 came out.  Poor treatment of some relationships by Bioware led to some of that "I told you so" and the forums became completely unbearable.  Basically, we had to nuke the site from orbit just to be sure, and set up a listening outpost just like what was done with the Rachnii.

[ruggly]

iakus wrote...

ruggly wrote...

I'm guessing that if they do, they would feel that they would have to canonize an ending which would, more likely than not, cause yet another uproar. Didn't DE mash all the endings together? They could try and do that.

I think it's possible, it would just be difficult.

Deus Ex 2 did try snd smash all three endings together, and it came out a laughable mess.

I say if this was an attemtpt otorch the franchise, let them.  Clear away the old Mass Effect and rebuild a new one.  A better one.

a coherent one.

Ah.  I never did play the first one, and I'm sitting at 66 minutes into DE:HR, so I wouldn't have really known.

[AresKeith]

Tonymac wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

iakus wrote...

Tonymac wrote...

Do you see how they resort to insults rather than discussion?  This is why the BSN will always be what it is.  There is no discussion from them, just potshots.   If you get a good discussion going, the trolls come out in herds - or gaggles - or whatever a group of trolls on rampage is called.

No wonder Bioware never listens.

And yet it's our fault for making the forums "toxic" 

To be fair, its the fault of people on both sides

This is true - on both sides - as well as Crimzontears' post.  The forums were never as toxic as they were after ME3 endings discussion started.  Some people say the endings are ok, some say they suck - and it spirals downhill into the port-a-john of name calling, potshots and general toxicity.   People cannot seem to agree to disagree.

The LI forums used to be one that was fun to discuss on.  For me, I like to see the game, experience it, and even do fanfic.  The LI forums were good for getting ideas together, having discussions - until the attacks started once ME3 came out.  Poor treatment of some relationships by Bioware led to some of that "I told you so" and the forums became completely unbearable.  Basically, we had to nuke the site from orbit just to be sure, and set up a listening outpost just like what was done with the Rachnii.

But lately all the name-calling, potshots, and general toxicity has been coming from the same number of people of both sides who you can easily spot out

[crimzontearz]

AresKeith wrote...

Tonymac wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

iakus wrote...

Tonymac wrote...

Do you see how they resort to insults rather than discussion?  This is why the BSN will always be what it is.  There is no discussion from them, just potshots.   If you get a good discussion going, the trolls come out in herds - or gaggles - or whatever a group of trolls on rampage is called.

No wonder Bioware never listens.

And yet it's our fault for making the forums "toxic" 

To be fair, its the fault of people on both sides

This is true - on both sides - as well as Crimzontears' post.  The forums were never as toxic as they were after ME3 endings discussion started.  Some people say the endings are ok, some say they suck - and it spirals downhill into the port-a-john of name calling, potshots and general toxicity.   People cannot seem to agree to disagree.

The LI forums used to be one that was fun to discuss on.  For me, I like to see the game, experience it, and even do fanfic.  The LI forums were good for getting ideas together, having discussions - until the attacks started once ME3 came out.  Poor treatment of some relationships by Bioware led to some of that "I told you so" and the forums became completely unbearable.  Basically, we had to nuke the site from orbit just to be sure, and set up a listening outpost just like what was done with the Rachnii.

But lately all the name-calling, potshots, and general toxicity has been coming from the same number of people of both sides who you can easily spot out

the point of my comment was that Bioware cause the toxicity the lament keeps them away from the forums.

[SilJeff]

Regardless of what they do BSN over all will likely hate it, but I would like to see a sequel (not a direct one of course. If they take a sequel route, they'd need to have it set long after 3, that way there could be a game that doesn't canonize one of the three main endings [I treat Refuse like the Shepard dies ending in ME2]) or a game that takes place around the same time as the trilogy.

[Tonymac]

SilJeff wrote...

Regardless of what they do BSN over all will likely hate it, but I would like to see a sequel (not a direct one of course. If they take a sequel route, they'd need to have it set long after 3, that way there could be a game that doesn't canonize one of the three main endings [I treat Refuse like the Shepard dies ending in ME2]) or a game that takes place around the same time as the trilogy.

I have no idea how they would pull it off, but I like your viewpoint.

[commander root657]

SilJeff wrote...

Regardless of what they do BSN over all will likely hate it, but I would like to see a sequel (not a direct one of course. If they take a sequel route, they'd need to have it set long after 3, that way there could be a game that doesn't canonize one of the three main endings [I treat Refuse like the Shepard dies ending in ME2]) or a game that takes place around the same time as the trilogy.

But there does have to be a canon ending if not a retcon, the green glowy stuff from synthesis isn't going to magically dissapear, neither are the reapers nor the geth.

[Eryri]

commander root657 wrote...

 But there does have to be a canon ending if not a retcon, the green glowy stuff from synthesis isn't going to magically dissapear...

Why not? It did appear by magic after all. 

In seriousness though, I agree. They are going to have to figure something out pretty sharpish if they want the franchise to have much of a long term future. Prequels and spin-offs would only get them so far, assuming anyone would be interested at all. I know I wouldn't.

[AresKeith]

Eryri wrote...

commander root657 wrote...

 But there does have to be a canon ending if not a retcon, the green glowy stuff from synthesis isn't going to magically dissapear...

Why not? It did appear by magic after all. 

In seriousness though, I agree. They are going to have to figure something out pretty sharpish if they want the franchise to have much of a long term future. Prequels and spin-offs would only get them so far, assuming anyone would be interested at all. I know I wouldn't.

IMO, it looked like they wanted to end the whole thing with the ME3 endings. But EA or Bioware (or Both) had other plans instead