553 réponses à ce sujet

[ghost9191]

shodiswe wrote...

KaiserShep wrote...

shodiswe wrote...

Synthesis is the evil of curing and healing a person without their consent.

They are still the same people afterwards.

Or rather, using an untested drug on someone who is not actually sick.

The Rannoch arch did kind of prove the Quarians sick. Their violent ways and cynicism.

They however would say, HEY! we like it this way! More killing and genocide FTW!

Not claiming the Geth were much better with their general attitudes. (they wern't the agressors though, which in my book nets them a few points)

TBH though, I think the writers had problems explaining how Synthesis woudl work since they don't know themselves, they are speculating in Utopian possibilities that noone has been able to come up with in a satisfying way.

Understanding and knowledge helps but it's not the cure all end all strife. But coupled with a booming economy and the elimination of poverty it could help eliminate most of the agression that commes from base instincts that are triggered by basic needs. Which could pull the support for most major conflicts even if there will still be a few unhappy individuals who keep wanting more.

but most ppl would try to retake their homes. just the way it is .  main reason other races fought so hard to hold on to their home world while sacrificing and evacuating others .

would use examples from other books and movies but they don't seem relevant here lol . ( as in a thread about mass effect )

[shodiswe]

ghost9191 wrote...

shodiswe wrote...

I have to say that all the "green" stuff on everything was a bad graphical design decision though.

what are you saying? that you didn't like the kick a*s leaves?

Yeah... I'm not that fond of the idea of spreading Synthesis without consent, even if I don't think it's actualy bad for people.. So that's a minor concern.

The green crap they paste over everything isn't that popular in my book. It's not world shattering but I can't say im a fan of having a green glow for all eternity. (hopefully that wont happen or it will go away.)

Those above reasons are my main reasons for picking control over Synthesis.

In Control the Reapers have been stoped, you help people rebuild, fix the relays and everyone is free and they are promised the right to hav ea say about their future. You become the guardian of freedom in the galaxy and a protector against exterior threats.
Mostly I picture Shepard sitting there innert beign unable to involved because there are billions of conflicting ideals to uphoald. But that doesn't matter, at least the Reapers were stoped and the galaxy got some war reparations from the Reapers for the damage they caused.

People can go back to their lives and since the Citadel didn't blow up it might have saved millions of lives on the citadel alone.

Oh... yeah.... thats one more - for Synthesis, the citadel still blows up, just like in Destroy.

[ghost9191]

shodiswe wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

shodiswe wrote...

I have to say that all the "green" stuff on everything was a bad graphical design decision though.

what are you saying? that you didn't like the kick a*s leaves?

Yeah... I'm not that fond of the idea of spreading Synthesis without consent, even if I don't think it's actualy bad for people.. So that's a minor concern.

The green crap they paste over everything isn't that popular in my book. It's not world shattering but I can't say im a fan of having a green glow for all eternity. (hopefully that wont happen or it will go away.)

Those above reasons are my main reasons for picking control over Synthesis.

In Control the Reapers have been stoped, you help people rebuild, fix the relays and everyone is free and they are promised the right to hav ea say about their future. You become the guardian of freedom in the galaxy and a protector against exterior threats.
Mostly I picture Shepard sitting there innert beign unable to involved because there are billions of conflicting ideals to uphoald. But that doesn't matter, at least the Reapers were stoped and the galaxy got some war reparations from the Reapers for the damage they caused.

People can go back to their lives and since the Citadel didn't blow up it might have saved millions of lives on the citadel alone.

Oh... yeah.... thats one more - for Synthesis, the citadel still blows up, just like in Destroy.

that would be hell in my book . cut off from what you were and your loved ones .


and yeah to the part about the citadel. though from the way the devs put it, ppl weren't killed from it. the populations mostly stayed in the wards. deaths yea but most probably survived.

am wondering what happened with the citadel though, don't remember seeing it in the control ending. could be wrong

Modifié par ghost9191, 29 mai 2013 - 06:56 .

[Auld Wulf]

shodiswe wrote...

I have to say that all the "green" stuff on everything was a bad graphical design decision though.

That's because it was all meant to be symbolic, and thus the art supported that notion. The circuitry was a symbolic statement of reaching a point where we can use our technology to improve our own bodies. Deus Ex handled a similar topic in a very similar way -- be it the original, Invisible War, or even Human Revolution if you're so inclined.

Really, the circuitry just supports it being symbolic rahter than anything else. If you look at the endings as symbolism, they suddenly make much more sense. And that's what BioWare intended, hence all their talk about art.

Not attacking you. Just using your post as a jump-off point to explain something. Thanks.

[ghost9191]

well at least auld explained something none of us knew

sarcasm aside, i thought he just meant he didn't like it . That and maybe everyone is green and such ? might explain why most were looking down at it . like huh?




that and speaking of such. what is with the marine pretty much giving up in control and synthesis? where as in destroy he does some last stand stuff, actually trying to fight off the husks

could it have a ddifferent meaning? hmm

Modifié par ghost9191, 29 mai 2013 - 07:43 .

[PsyrenY]

shodiswe wrote...

The green crap they paste over everything isn't that popular in my book. It's not world shattering but I can't say im a fan of having a green glow for all eternity. (hopefully that wont happen or it will go away.)

They had to show the magnitude of the change somehow. Synthesis changed everyone on the deepest molecular levels - showing everyone looking exactly the same as they do in Control and Destroy would belie that.

shodiswe wrote...citadel alone.

Oh... yeah.... thats one more - for Synthesis, the citadel still blows up, just like in Destroy.

You could easily argue that this is symbolic - there is no more need for a Citadel, no more need for a giant floating stick of galactic cooperation, no more need for a council or embassies. We can now work together just as easily even from our planets. 

Of course, I prefer to think that - if we decide to have a Citadel again, we easily can - or 10 even. With the Reapers around, building more should be a snap.

[Caldari Ghost]

STFU and just accept there is no evil. only stupid opinions.

[Redbelle]

Caldari Ghost wrote...

STFU and just accept there is no evil. only stupid opinions.

That's the second time I've heard you justify synthesis by saying, what essestially boils down too.

"STFU and take it like an N7"!!!

Grud.... I think I just saw the spirit of debate walk into a closet with a loaded shotgun.....
<waits...... waits....... waits........ *BANG*>

Yep. There it goes.

[Redbelle]

@Seiv.....

That's what Synthesis was missing the whole time. An epic fist bump!

Though for my money..... This is by far a better comment on the relationship between Shep and the Catalsyt.

@Wulf

The one thing I object to when people say the games are art, or that pro gamers are athlete's, is that by accepting those reorientation's of what they are....

Games are thought of, less like games, developed less like games so that when they arrive on your doorstep in their shiny wrapper in a box. What you have is less than a game. And I purposely bought it on the basis that it was a game. Developed with gamer logic and gamer's sensibilities.....

You don't have to keep playing the same old style of gaming. Developers can bring new thing's to a game. But before a game can be considered art. It first has to stand up as....... a game.

And before you say that being a game makes it a game and is therefore art...... youtube a playthrough of Charlies Angel's on the PS2. If you survive without clawing out your eyeballs then consider that games should be made to be...... great games first. The art can come second if that's what people want.

Modifié par Redbelle, 29 mai 2013 - 12:13 .

[Caldari Ghost]

Redbelle wrote...

Caldari Ghost wrote...

STFU and just accept there is no evil. only stupid opinions.

That's the second time I've heard you justify synthesis by saying, what essestially boils down too.

"STFU and take it like an N7"!!!

Grud.... I think I just saw the spirit of debate walk into a closet with a loaded shotgun.....
<waits...... waits....... waits........ *BANG*>

Yep. There it goes.

you misquoted me.

[Redbelle]

Caldari Ghost wrote...

Redbelle wrote...

Caldari Ghost wrote...

STFU and just accept there is no evil. only stupid opinions.

That's the second time I've heard you justify synthesis by saying, what essestially boils down too.

"STFU and take it like an N7"!!!

Grud.... I think I just saw the spirit of debate walk into a closet with a loaded shotgun.....
<waits...... waits....... waits........ *BANG*>

Yep. There it goes.

you misquoted me.

Nooooo. As of this afternoon the quote captured above was what you had written exactly.

I think what you mean to say is that I took your quote out of context.

In which case, providing said context would help understand what your quote was aimed at conveying.

Modifié par Redbelle, 29 mai 2013 - 04:26 .

[shodiswe]

Optimystic_X wrote...

shodiswe wrote...

The green crap they paste over everything isn't that popular in my book. It's not world shattering but I can't say im a fan of having a green glow for all eternity. (hopefully that wont happen or it will go away.)

They had to show the magnitude of the change somehow. Synthesis changed everyone on the deepest molecular levels - showing everyone looking exactly the same as they do in Control and Destroy would belie that.

shodiswe wrote...citadel alone.

Oh... yeah.... thats one more - for Synthesis, the citadel still blows up, just like in Destroy.

You could easily argue that this is symbolic - there is no more need for a Citadel, no more need for a giant floating stick of galactic cooperation, no more need for a council or embassies. We can now work together just as easily even from our planets. 

Of course, I prefer to think that - if we decide to have a Citadel again, we easily can - or 10 even. With the Reapers around, building more should be a snap.

My interpretation for the destruction of the citadel in Destroy and synthesis is the death of the Catalyst. In control the Citadel isn't destroyed since Shepard takes it's place and have to live there for the rest of his/her/it's existance..

People can still pickup the pieces of the vreckage and rebuild the superstructure.

I'm not sure why the Catalyst has to die in Synthesis but apparently it's one of Biowares design decisions, apparently it's job is done so it ceases to exist. Or soemthing... Maybe the Leviathans programmed it that way, complete the task and selfdestruct so you don't add to the problem.

[shodiswe]

Like you said Ghost, I don't expect the existance as Guardian and the new AI Shepard too be enjoyable at all, it's a sacrifise to save "the many". An extreme show of altruism which is borderline crazy, above and beyond service.

But in the end, the Cycles have to be stoped, all three options accomplishes this, just in different ways. Each got their own preference.

But really, the green glowy stuff in Synthesis has to go, I'm sure people can get used to it but it serves no purpose. No green glowy stuff in the next game plz! Even if people picked synthesis.

Modifié par shodiswe, 29 mai 2013 - 12:58 .

[Ieldra]

shodiswe wrote...
But really, the green glowy stuff in Synthesis has to go, I'm sure people can get used to it but it serves no purpose. No green glowy stuff in the next game plz! Even if people picked synthesis.

I see the green glow as a symbolic representation of mostly invisible changes. Its there for the benefit of the viewer, as an indication that something is different with people compared to the other endings. The same with the circuit patterns. They are a symbolic representation of "synthetic aspects" in people, they can't be real since there is no way Synthesis is realistically presented through 1980-style electronic circuits. It's possible something visible will change after Synthesis, but it won't be something as crude.

So yeah.....if a story set in the post-Synthesis future is ever told, the green glow will have to go.

[Auld Wulf]

@Ieldra2

I completely agree with all of that, bar nothing.

See, the circuitry is something they do to symbolise the fusion of synthetic and organic, and they do it in a somewhat kitsch way. I suspect that they did it that way because it would be "easier to understand" than modern circuitry or another random form of aesthetic. I think they did it hoping that the viewer would exclaim 'ah, I understand!'

I've been pointing out a lot lately that the endings are largely symbolic and that to try to analyse them literally leads to insanity, because that's like trying to examine symbolic art literally. The ending is more of a philosophical statement than anything else, and it uses visual cues to convey ideas that the viewer may not be familiar with (and in many cases they won't). And to BioWare's credit, bless 'em, they really did try.

So, yeah, I think that if a game occurred in a Synthesis future, the lines would go and what we'd get would be something closer to Deus Ex but with brain-mails and brain-conferencing.

[Caldari Ghost]

Redbelle wrote...

Caldari Ghost wrote...

Redbelle wrote...

Caldari Ghost wrote...

STFU and just accept there is no evil. only stupid opinions.

"STFU and take it like an N7"!!!

you misquoted me.

Nooooo. As of this afternoon the quote captured above was what you had written exactly.

I think what you mean to say is that I took your quote out of context.

In which case, providing said context would help understand what your quote was aimed at conveying.

[Redbelle]

Redbelle wrote...

Caldari Ghost wrote...

Redbelle wrote...

Caldari Ghost wrote...

STFU and just accept there is no evil. only stupid opinions.

That's the second time I've heard you justify synthesis by saying, what essestially boils down too.

"STFU and take it like an N7"!!!

Grud.... I think I just saw the spirit of debate walk into a closet with a loaded shotgun.....
<waits...... waits....... waits........ *BANG*>

Yep. There it goes.

you misquoted me.

Nooooo. As of this afternoon the quote captured above was what you had written exactly.

I think what you mean to say is that I took your quote out of context.

In which case, providing said context would help understand what your quote was aimed at conveying.

Actually, my quote you snipped went like it does above.

Now I appreciate you think I misquoted you, but the line, your argument boils down too.... clearly indicates a  personal view of your quote. Not a mis-quote.

And let's not avoid the issue that spawned my response. This is the second time you've told someone to STFU and acceptthe view that synthesis isn't evil.... based on nothing that you offered up in your post other than you wish your view to be accepted by he who disagreed with it.

Modifié par Redbelle, 29 mai 2013 - 04:26 .

[ghost9191]

@Ieldra

which would explain why in the synthesis ending. ppl noticed the "circuitry"

@Auld Wulf

yeah we all know you keep bringing it . a bit much . considering ppl have been saying that since ec lol

______________________________________

but yeah . let us not accept synthesis as is lol , but i guess it is easy enough to head canon the things you dislike out of synthesis . but fyi head canon isn't canon

you get what you get with synthesis , like it or not

Modifié par ghost9191, 29 mai 2013 - 08:43 .

[Seival]

ghost9191 wrote...

@Seival

and yet the USA does not force it on them without their consent. and don't give me bs that they do because you do have the choice and freedom to choose another way of life

and you do know what the U.N is right?

there is a possibility to come together despite differences . synthesis doesn't have to happen for it to happen., it is just a a way to force those who can't

want to use Mass effect as a example? just look at the end , all the races coming together to stop the reaper threat

if you see appeasing and surrendering as a viable option then so be it, surrender guarantees peace right? "the greater risk lies in appeasement",

it is a acceptable choice but is no more right then another . and you can't get what you want out of synthesis by forcing it on everyone . as seen with the krogan , I mean there may be "peace" , which there isn't. but when it comes down to it, it had to be forced on everyone. they didn't achieve it on their own



i am not saying it is the worse choice or whatever. just destroy ( and control ) is just as viable. synthesis brings ppl together in the way you put seival, destroy has everyone come together willingly , albeit at a great cost. but that is the case for each choice



and as for the last link. pretty sure that outcome isn't possible in any of the endings lol . unless i missed the one where you shake the hand of the catalyst and agree not to kill each other so that both sides can live . synthesis is close yes. but you change everything to the catalysts version of " perfection " in order to stop the fighting. you will have to change everything to achieve that , hence the comment about appeasement. 

  Note : i don't even know what that vid is from. so i only have the 40 secs to go on . i don't know why they are fighting in the first place


P.S. ramblings for the most part , but the simple response is that the synthesis ending can be achieved without having to choose synthesis. minus the reapers and geth =) i just prefer giving ppl the chance to determine their own fate. whatever that fate may be

and if you just focus on the bad , then yes the world looks pretty sh*tty , at least ppl try. which is why i brought up the U.N . is it perfect ? no but we are still young lol

think what you will though , i am not trying to dismiss your argument or choice, we both have our personal views and opinions. just saying both are viable . 

USA government forces USA citizens to follow the specific society rules, as any government does. No one has freedom inside the country, because all people inside are bound by the country's rules. Some freedoms to do something =/= freedom. Even Leviathans give their thralls some freedoms, but none of thralls are free.

And when dealing with other countries, USA follows simple rule. If another country is not alien - then we will be allies, but if another country is alien - then we will assimilate them and become allies afterwards.

Alliances of differences are very rare and can exist only when these differences are in grave danger coming from elsewhere. Such alliances stop existing as soon as the danger passed. Examples: USSR and USA fought together against Germany during WW2; galactic civilization united against the Reapers.

Forced co-existence of differences called "toleration" is unstable bomb which can explode any moment. The only key to stable co-existence is absence of differences. Like I said, the Earth cannot explode because of conflicts inside USA, but the Earth can explode because of conflicts between USA and countries which are alien to USA.

I see you believe (or at least accept) that all roads in MEU lead to Synthesis? I think that way too - no matter which ending you chose, Synthesis is inevitable. I just prefer the ending where you don't have to kill anyone. My favorite ending is Control, and my Catalyst-Shepard applies Synthesis later (very carefully, so people think they developed all new abilities and properties themselves)...

...You know, I think you might find OP of this thread interesting: http://social.biowar.../index/13740862

Modifié par Seival, 29 mai 2013 - 09:32 .

[Seival]

Redbelle wrote...

That's what Synthesis was missing the whole time. An epic fist bump!

Soldier and husk scene is much better than an epic fist bump. This scene says so much without any words - the great example of truly professional work.

[Redbelle]

Seival wrote...

Redbelle wrote...

That's what Synthesis was missing the whole time. An epic fist bump!

Soldier and husk scene is much better than an epic fist bump. This scene says so much without any words - the great example of truly professional work.

Yet raises question's as to.... 'how', both simultaneously came to the same viewpoint given that both were, a few seconds earlier, in a situation where the soldier was fighting for his life in a brown trousers life or death situation.....

While the husk, whose organs, skin and water content are converted into cybernetic materials after being impaled through the chest with a large spike that kills the victim, before being converted and released as a hostile agent of bitey clawry carnage........ stop attacking each other, given that just moment's ago they were fighting to the bitter end with not one of the repective opposing sides showing signs that they wanted to, or were prepared to stop. Till the green wave MADE them stop.

And here is where an element of movie magic comes into play. The motivations of each side should remain the same regardless of being pysically altered. Yet for the needs of the story, they don't.

Unless you want to develop the fact that the husks are also signal broadcasters for the Reapers, in which case the husks are in fact just mindless zombies enacting the new directive of the Reapers....... in which case we then have to look at the soldier who is likewise not fighting, consider the Reaper's are influencing their husks and think...... Hmmmmm.

@ tickle Clearly he comes from the "You must.....sacrifice yourself..... SO I CAN LIVE"!!! school of soldiering

Modifié par Redbelle, 29 mai 2013 - 09:49 .

[ghost9191]

@Seival

i meant more like you are free to leave and choose a different way of life lol .


but it is true enough i suppose. though most are still allies today. and about coming together. i just meant that when it comes down to it. we forget our petty differences to stand together against
"evil"

and yeah i do think synthesis is a outcome of each choice . though the outcome of the other two choices would be different. As in the synthesis you see in synthesis ending wouldn't necessarily be the end for destroy and control. rather then having the same "evolution" forced on everyone . each race would achieve it themselves. As legion says " there are many paths to the same end, accepting ones path blinds you to alternatives" or something.. I do think synthesis is the end result for the most part. just should be achieved on our terms if you know what i mean . when we are ready and such .

though i do dislike sacrificing the geth in destroy. when i first made the choice. it wasn't the fact shep was going to die . it was the fate of the geth that made me doubt my decision. though in the EC they aren't exactly as clear about he geth fate as they were in the original. I am not sure if they survived ( i doubt it ) i just mean the catalyst didn't straight up say " the geth will be destroyed"



though i hope the leviathans aren't the ones to force synthesis on everyone in the destroy ending. lol

Modifié par ghost9191, 29 mai 2013 - 10:03 .

[Seival]

tickle267 wrote...

Seival wrote...

Redbelle wrote...

That's what Synthesis was missing the whole time. An epic fist bump!

Soldier and husk scene is much better than an epic fist bump. This scene says so much without any words - the great example of truly professional work.

I love how in synthesis and control when the guy without the helmet is attacked, the guy with the helmet just crawls away and leaves him to his fate, despite having just been rescued by him.

When you are wounded and too tired, the power of will stops helping at some point. Not all soldiers are Shepards.