336 réponses à ce sujet

[In Exile]

Thinking about it a bit, just how exactly are mages actually going to fight a war against the templars? They don't have supply lines or supplies, which is quite the serious problem. In the Circles, food and water was (presumably) handled by the Chantry. But now, mages will either need to purchase it (meaning they need coin, so I assume they need industrial scale enchanting) or produce it. Since farming is out of the question, presumably the answer is buy food. Who would sell to the mages? Where would they store it? 

This isn't an especially detailed overview, but it seems to me that mages have quite significant roadblocks in just getting an organization off the ground in a meaningful sense. 

[Fast Jimmy]

To be fair, with the Templars split off from the Chantry, they could be in the exact same boat.

Both will have wealthy and powerful groups looking to support them. Just look at some of the no or houses who have Mage bloodlines in them that could stand to keep their inheritances intact if Mages were granted freedom/equality and they could be allowed titles. Connor is a good example of this.

Similarly, there are likely many out there who have lost a family member to an Abomination or a Blood Mage. Or who, just flat out, don't think Mages are safe for anyone. They would gladly throw support behind the Templars.


That being said, I agree with your general premise. Why the Templars who, as a military force, are smaller than any other nation's army, are viewed as a huge threat is a little confusing. A huge group of Mages I can understand... after all, empires have been built on less. But other than having special skills against Mages, Templars don't bring a lot to the fight against normal fighting units.

[Medhia Nox]

They're going to do what everyone who thinks they can win does on the forums.

They're going to say "Magic" really loudly and ignore anything resembling historical conflicts - because fantasy.

===

But yes, I agree with you.

I believe their is a possibility that the manipulator of this "war" is the head of the Aequatarians (did not read Asunder) as they are the largest faction of mages - and it was in their power to stop this ludicrous conflict. Or perhaps - has the leader of the Aequatarians as a blood magic thrall (ugh, blood magic as plot device).

Whatever the case - the writers will of course simply decide that the mages can maintain a viable battle by declaring "secret information not given previously."

I will be gobsmacked if the war actually turns out the way I believe it should (with the mages being crushed).

As for the Templars - I don't see how they'll survive this as a faction either.

Like the Knight's Templar... they've just made enemies of probably some of the most powerful nations in the world (for the real world Templars it was France - so Orlais?). They're not long for this world either - though they ARE more equipped to survive without support.

That an army of social misfit shut ins - suddenly busting out into the world - would know how to survive "at all" - seems preposterous to me.

[sandalisthemaker]

Characters in videogames don't have to eat, sleep, drink, or poop.
So they can just handwave all of these real life concerns.

[BlueMagitek]

Well, any noble or warlord who smells the Circle's blood in the water is going to love to earn the support of mages - and then immediately put their power to use against his enemies.

"Sure, I'll provide X in return for Y".

Alternatively, if they're willing to enslave their own, they can enslave mages to serve Orzammar.

[KR4U55]

We could assume both sides will either ally with a small country/lord to suply them or mayve even hold a couple of villages hostage or something. Mages can always contact their families, form an underground movement to supply their troops.

The Templars have it easier though: "We are Templars hunting evil blood mages and abominations. We need all your money. Did we mention they are evil blood mages and abominations? They are evil."

[sandalisthemaker]

KR4U55 wrote...

We could assume both sides will either ally with a small country/lord to suply them or mayve even hold a couple of villages hostage or something. Mages can always contact their families, form an underground movement to supply their troops.

The Templars have it easier though: "We are Templars hunting evil blood mages and abominations. We need all your money. Did we mention they are evil blood mages and abominations? They are evil."

Who would ally with mages besides Tevinter?
This is why I feel the Imperium should feature strongly in this game.

[mousestalker]

The mages can also steal or extort money and food. They do possess power, after all.

There may also know where the Big Rock Candy Mountains are.

[In Exile]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

To be fair, with the Templars split off from the Chantry, they could be in the exact same boat.  

But you can at least imagine that, in relying on the Andrastian faith, they could garner a fair amount of support. Still, fair point. 

Both will have wealthy and powerful groups looking to support them. Just look at some of the no or houses who have Mage bloodlines in them that could stand to keep their inheritances intact if Mages were granted freedom/equality and they could be allowed titles. Connor is a good example of this.  

But what about those houses were the child has been out of the line of succession for a decade, and the younger sibiling is now in their late teens/early 20s? Would the parents want a child who - essentially - was raised nowhere to suddenly become the heir to the family? Would the younger sibling just step aside to rule a holdfast? It's easy with a young and only child like Connor, but we're 10 years later and Connor might have a young sibling raised to rule. 

It seems to me that another thing not considered (which occured to me while writing this) is just how the extra-territorial aspects of this all work. For mages to hold titles, the ruler of the land will actually have to grant that (e.g. Celene or Alistair). 

That being said, I agree with your general premise. Why the Templars who, as a military force, are smaller than any other nation's army, are viewed as a huge threat is a little confusing. A huge group of Mages I can understand... after all, empires have been built on less. But other than having special skills against Mages, Templars don't bring a lot to the fight against normal fighting units.

Well, I imagine the idea is that mages don't have actual fighting experience, so they have no idea how to do anything other than use magic. Presumably, most of them aren't trained to fight (there's a lot in the DA:O mage origin that suggests the Chantry doesn't want to send more mages off to fight because that would empower them). 

So I can see how the templars are a threat to mages, which I think is at issue. 

[NoForgiveness]

I assume the Templars and mages will get resources the same way, by supporting lords and such, both groups need the dwarves' lyrium so that will factor in. or they could steal from the chantry which is probably one of the easier ways. the chantry itself has a lot of resources but no army(or a small one) to hold onto it all.

[brushyourteeth]

I've also never understood what (apart from specific Circle training) stops mages from being adept fighters. Templars are just warriors and rogues with magic-quelling abilities. Teach mages how to use weapons and they may just have the upper hand.

[The Hierophant]

I would be surprised if the individual nations didn't strong arm the Circles into national service, as without Chantry support they're squatters.

[NoForgiveness]

brushyourteeth wrote...

I've also never understood what (apart from specific Circle training) stops mages from being adept fighters. Templars are just warriors and rogues with magic-quelling abilities. Teach mages how to use weapons and they may just have the upper hand.

mages have to focus there training on their magic or else they become hedge mages. growing up all efforts are put into magic training and not swords and such. if they started training with weapons now they wont be good enough to use in an actual fight, especially against people who have an entire lifetime of weapon training

[sandalisthemaker]

brushyourteeth wrote...

I've also never understood what (apart from specific Circle training) stops mages from being adept fighters. Templars are just warriors and rogues with magic-quelling abilities. Teach mages how to use weapons and they may just have the upper hand.

Nothing is stopping a mage from picking up a dagger and practicing besides game mechanics.

There really should be hybrid classes in DA3.

[BlueMagitek]

There's also the point that magical power isn't evenly spread out, you have a few powerful mages (Senior Enchanters onward) but there are mages who can barely light a candle, so unless 3/4+ of the mage population turns to blood magic I don't see where they're getting all the power from.

[Swagger7]

I'd assume the mages and Templars will both get quite a lot of supplies from dwarven merchants. Surface Dwarves: the unscrupulous arms dealers of Thedas....

[Dr. Doctor]

For both sides lyrium is going to be a major bottleneck, mages need it to fuel magic, Templars need it to maintain spell resistance and prevent withdrawal symptoms. Without the Chantry's control of the lyrium trade the Dwarven Merchant's Guild's traders on the surface and the various thaigs are going to be at risk for attacks by both sides.

[sandalisthemaker]

BlueMagitek wrote...

There's also the point that magical power isn't evenly spread out, you have a few powerful mages (Senior Enchanters onward) but there are mages who can barely light a candle, so unless 3/4+ of the mage population turns to blood magic I don't see where they're getting all the power from.

They need Tevinter. I don't see any other way that the mages could avoid being annihilated, let alone hold their own.
It is hinted in the lore that  the strongest magisters in Tevinter have exposed themselves to so much lyrium that they have physically changed and no longer appear human. Presumably they are insanely powerful.
And yes there is always blood magic.

Modifié par sandalisthemaker, 23 mai 2013 - 02:42 .

[BlueMagitek]

I'm under the idea that there is no way that the majority of Enchanters would want anything to do with Tevinter. Certainly not the Loyalists/Isolationists, and any Aequarian that wishes to is clearly barking mad.