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[Stella-Arc]

As teased by the summary of The Masked Empire, the next Dragon Age novel, the elves will play a large role in relation to the Orleasian Empire. To what extent remains to be seen. However, if this is the case, then perhaps an outcome of DA:I would have the elves regaining their second homeland, the Dales. While it isn't certain, it got me thinking. 

• It is mentioned in the codices that many of the Dalish are descended from nobility and as a result, according to them, are the closest to what the ancient elves were. It took me awhile to ask this myself but if these dalish elves are indeed nobility then did the elves of the Dales had a king? or queen? All the major human nations, even the dwarves, have a monarchy. Only the Qunari have a tri-leadership. So, it begs to question, if the elves will indeed eventually get the Dales back (debatable), will they be a monarchy or something else? That is, if they had a monarchy previously.
• If, and this is a big if, the elves do get their land back, how will the city elves and the dalish get along? These groups are vastly different and while the dalish, according to DA:O, will be ready to teach their city brethren all that they had lost, I doubt it will go smoothly. In my opinion, there could be some sort of civil war in the Dales.
• While a civil war could result between the city elves and the dalish due to cultural and religious differences, another reason could be whether the Dales should be isolated or open. Regardless if you were dalish or not in DA:O, the dalish in Ferelden will get their own land (which is debatable since it was implied by King Alistair in DAII that things didn't go well *hmph*) and thus might be willing to associate with humans. This could also cause division among the dalish. In other words, civil war. 

I was surprised to find out that not much new information was given about the elves in The World of Thedas (it's amazing by the way) and what was given, we already knew. The only two new things we didn't know was that dalish mages do not deal with any magic that delves closely with spirits (which is confusing because I thought healing required communicating with Spirits of Compassion) and that the dalish believe that their Creator's are locked up in the Black City (which was news to me). The dwarves also got a slight hit while I was impressed that we knew more about the Qunari then both the dwarves and elves combined. But anyway, I digress. What I'm going with this is that, while it's still in the air, the elves, both city and dalish, will collide if they ever regain the Dales. 

To summarize my thoughts:

• What type of government the elves had during their time in the Dales or could have if the Dales were ever reclaimed, in DA:I or some other game?
• Do you think confict will rise between the city elves and the dalish? Or there wouldn't be? What would those concerns be?
• Do you think there will be division on the issue of being closed off or opened to the outside world? 

I would have emphasized more on dalish vs dalish conflict but I can't for the life of me find the quote or text about the dalish not getting along with each other much which is why the Gathering of the Clans happens once every 10 years (and only lasting 3 days). Since I can't, I won't add it to the list. 

These are my thoughts. It's obvious the elves will get an important role in DA:I (hinted by the new DA novel and the importace of the protagonist's humanity) but what are your thoughts on what I have pointed out?

Remember, this thread isn't about whether the dalish are some sort of purist, the validiation of elven immortality, whether the elven pantheon exist or not and so on and so forth. Keep it in relation to the points mentioned above. So, please. I beg you. Don't derail the thread....much. 

[Harle Cerulean]

The Dalish are like today's neopagans who swear up and down that they're performing the same rites as the druids and that every last one of them was Cleopatra in a previous life.

Except for the ones who were Marc Antony.

(Don't get me wrong, I don't have issues with the Dalish building themselves a culture out of scraps and stories, but pretending it's the real deal and that it makes them superior? That, I have issues with.)

--

I think attempts by the city elves and Dalish to coexist are going to be very fractious. Individually, city elves may easily adapt to a Dalish clan. They're cut off from others of their culture and in order to fit in, they need to adapt. But a large group of city elves are going to have each other. They're not going to sit at the feet of the Dalish begging for scraps of knowledge, however much the Dalish may fantasize about that.

Modifié par Harle Cerulean, 23 mai 2013 - 03:03 .

[BlueMagitek]

I don't have a lot of time, so I apologize for the brief response.

1) To be fair, the Dwarves have more of a Oligarchy/Monarchy, apparently the King must bow to the will of the Deshyrs, if a vote comes down to it (this is mentioned primarily in the Dwarvern Noble Origin, I believe).

2) If the meeting with the Sabre Clan is anything to go by, the majority of the Dalish will look down upon the City Elves and most likely use them as a scapegoat (take a City Elf to the Dalish camp and do not agree immediately with everything the Dalish say, they're more vile to you than most Dwarves are to casteless).

3) I believe the Quickening was indirectly stated to be false by Mary Kirby earlier on this forum, so it's a bold faced Dalish lie, but I'm sure they'll try to close borders. And they'll get conquered again because of it.

[Stella-Arc]

^^
One of the questions I asked myself if whether one should try to recreate "Old World" glory or try to create a new world. Like a small flower growing from ashes. It's obvious that change is very important to the story of DA. To me, the elves, especially the dalish, seem to fear change. Instead of adapting, they fled from the humans when they migrated to Thedas. Because of that, they allowed one of the tribes to form into the Tevinter Imperium and it bit them in the ass. They did it again when they got the Dales. They isolated themselves and when conflict grew, they lost. I think their biggest mistake was not having any allies.

The City Elves might be more open to negotiating with humans then the dalish and I could see conflict as a result. Now imagine the problem escalating if some city elves wish to worship the Maker.

Modifié par Stella-Arc, 23 mai 2013 - 03:10 .

[Sharn01]

I don't visit the forums very often any longer, but I believe Mary Kirby stamped out the idea that the dalish live longer then humans and that their lifespans are roughly the same, I do not recall a post where she addressed the original quickening.

[Stella-Arc]

BlueMagitek wrote...

I don't have a lot of time, so I apologize for the brief response.

1) To be fair, the Dwarves have more of a Oligarchy/Monarchy, apparently the King must bow to the will of the Deshyrs, if a vote comes down to it (this is mentioned primarily in the Dwarvern Noble Origin, I believe).

2) If the meeting with the Sabre Clan is anything to go by, the majority of the Dalish will look down upon the City Elves and most likely use them as a scapegoat (take a City Elf to the Dalish camp and do not agree immediately with everything the Dalish say, they're more vile to you than most Dwarves are to casteless).

3) I believe the Quickening was indirectly stated to be false by Mary Kirby earlier on this forum, so it's a bold faced Dalish lie, but I'm sure they'll try to close borders. And they'll get conquered again because of it.

1. Yeah, I knew that but it's still some sort of monarchy which most nations in Thedas follow somewhat. If the dalish are descended from nobility then does that mean they had some sort of monarchy? Could be or not. I think the only exception to a monarchy system is Kirkwall. Then again, what happens in DAII Kirkwall, stays in DAII Kirkwall. 

2. True which frustrates me. My canon Warden is of dalish origin and to see her former clan act in such a way...

3. Yeah. They isolated themselves....twice...and lost....twice. I'm all for regaining their lost lore, language, culture, rituals but if they continue to isolate themselves, when they need help, there won't be any. 

[In Exile]

1. I would imagine a monarchy is totally out, as the Dalish have effectively created a representative system of government with their gatherings. They'd be asking all of the various independent clans to swear fealty to one person, and that system of governance (whether they had it or not) would likely not be something they support.

2. Well, frankly, either the Dalish have to stop being bigots or the CEs have to accept living as second-class citizens (again). The Dalish are more likely to teach the CEs how inherently inferior they are than anything else, i.e., created a slightly better Alienage for them. 

3.  This was the result of a bug. 

[Stella-Arc]

In Exile wrote...

1. I would imagine a monarchy is totally out, as the Dalish have effectively created a representative system of government with their gatherings. They'd be asking all of the various independent clans to swear fealty to one person, and that system of governance (whether they had it or not) would likely not be something they support.

2. Well, frankly, either the Dalish have to stop being bigots or the CEs have to accept living as second-class citizens (again). The Dalish are more likely to teach the CEs how inherently inferior they are than anything else, i.e., created a slightly better Alienage for them. 

3.  This was the result of a bug. 

1. I could see this. Maybe they would be the first to create a democratic government (pfft ha).

2. That...is scary but likely.

3. What? 

The clans being seperate from one another could definitely influence how they would govern the Dales. In the codices, it is said that the dalish clans vary; some may get along fine with humans, others would live like bandits, or be neutral. Such differences would create problems in the future. Then add city elves and that would ignite chaos. Too many variations. You do bring up an interesting point about city elves perhaps being treated as second-class citizens if a new Dales is ever formed. 

In the end, you have dalish clans that are vastly different from one another (and probably can't stand being together for too long)and city elves that grew up with their own culture. This could potentially cause problems for them. So much potential.

Modifié par Stella-Arc, 23 mai 2013 - 04:27 .

[Knight of Dane]

I kinda hope any future elven kingdom will be made up by a mix of elves. So far the Dalish has been pricks and the City Elves has been beaten puppies.

[Xilizhra]

If, and this is a big if, the elves do get their land back, how will the city elves and the dalish get along? These groups are vastly different and while the dalish, according to DA:O, will be ready to teach their city brethren all that they had lost, I doubt it will go smoothly. In my opinion, there could be some sort of civil war in the Dales.

Perfectly well, thanks to a certain amount of self-correcting in this problem. The city elves who'll join the Dalish here will be the ones willing to assimilate into Dalish culture, which the Dalish are totally fine with. Any devout Andrastians who don't want to do the whole Creator thing are perfectly free to remain in the shrunken Alienages.

While a civil war could result between the city elves and the dalish due to cultural and religious differences, another reason could be whether the Dales should be isolated or open. Regardless if you were dalish or not in DA:O, the dalish in Ferelden will get their own land (which is debatable since it was implied by King Alistair in DAII that things didn't go well *hmph*) and thus might be willing to associate with humans. This could also cause division among the dalish. In other words, civil war.

The answer here is simple but requires a great deal of work to bring about: was the Quickening caused by human proximity, or not? If that can be learned... well, then it should be closed if the Quickening did have that cause, relatively open if it didn't.

[iOnlySignIn]

Naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah.

Merrill, Morrigan, and Flemeth perform a massive ritual (sacrificing 5,000 Templars in the process) to raise Arlathan from under the ground.

Then it turns out that Arlathan is the Golden City.

Then Flemeth enters it triumphantly to take her rightful place on the throne as Fen'Harel/the new Maker (the old Maker is dead for a very long time). With Warden, Hawke, Morrigan, and Merrill on either side. And Thedas enters a new age of enlightened absolutism and everyone is granted the gift of Magic.

Modifié par iOnlySignIn, 23 mai 2013 - 12:41 .

[Harle Cerulean]

Xilizhra wrote...
Perfectly well, thanks to a certain amount of self-correcting in this problem. The city elves who'll join the Dalish here will be the ones willing to assimilate into Dalish culture, which the Dalish are totally fine with. Any devout Andrastians who don't want to do the whole Creator thing are perfectly free to remain in the shrunken Alienages.
.

It's really kind of funny how fine you are with groups of people being relegated to second-class citizenhood as long as they're not your pet groups.  

[azarhal]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

Naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah.

Merrill, Morrigan, and Flemeth perform a massive ritual (sacrificing 5,000 Templars in the process) to raise Arlathan from under the ground.

Then it turns out that Arlathan is the Golden City.

Then Flemeth enters it triumphantly to take her rightful place on the throne as Fen'Harel/the new Maker (the old Maker is dead for a very long time). With Warden, Hawke, Morrigan, and Merrill on either side. And Thedas enters a new age of enlightened absolutism and everyone is granted the gift of Magic.

You forgot to put the Blight in there somewhere...

[cindercatz]

Pretty sure Arlathan is the Golden/Black City, actually. The elves of old were supposed to spend a great deal of time sleeping when their time came, walking the fade. Then Tevinter happened and everything collapsed. The Tevinter invading Arlathan and the Golden City, is like saying they took wherever it was located on Thedas, then invaded the fadeside counterpart.. by sacrificing thousands of elven slaves. .. Or like saying there was no physical Arlathan. It's the place they went when they slept, which would make it the largest elven city at any given time, only in the Fade. Either way. I lean option 2.

So..... to your points:
1. Elvhen leadership (Dalish or City Elves) isn't determined by bloodline, and while the Dalish don't have an individualistic mindset or economy, the city elves, more individualistic in human culture systems, are so poor that they'd still be the poor class among the Dalish. So I don't think any kind of monarchy or wealth based system would emerge. I think it's more likely you'd get a league of tribes type thing with a representative council (Native American style, also sorta like Ancient Greece, but more NA), and getting anything done, or whether everybody participated as a group, would come down to consensus. A large revolt happening at all would imply that a consensus was reached somewhere along the line to participate in numbers, and that sort of cooperative attitude would be required to form a more cohesive government. So there'd be growing pains, but I think if they decided to unite, there's no reason they'd quickly splinter, though some may weaken the cause by lack of participation at some important crux event.

2. I think the city elves would essentially function like a refugee population, primarily because their Dalish education is so limited and their human culture education isn't much better. They'd be knowledge poor, but they'd also somewhat isolate themselves as a foreign element in the new Dales. I think their sense of living with more personal property in defined long term locations would create some friction, but mostly they'd be an influx of low skill, low education bodies who the Dalish would have to absorb, but I think the City Elves would mostly be eager to do so. To be a little clearer, I think the more successful the Dalish are, the worse things would get for city elves, so if they join the Dalish, they're likely to be motivated to do so.

Andrastian elves are another matter. If the elves go to war with Orlais and the White Divine, I imagine Andrastians would be exiled or killed before long, because they'd essentially be committed to the enemy. I don't think there's enough of them to pose any serious threat to the Dalish, though they'd make excellent spies or assassins for the Chantry if they're not found out.

3. I don't think isolation would be the goal any more. I think they'd have learned it only makes them vulnerable, considering not only the previous collapse against the Tevinter, but also issues that have come up (and potentially wiped out large portions of two clans) over the last decade. I think the goal would be to present a strong, unified front, which means they're not necessarily likely to seek human allies, but they are likely to be smarter and more agressive. They have to be somewhat expansionist minded if they're intending to conquer a new homeland and carve out their own permanent territory. So they won't be isolationist; they'll be adversarial.

Modifié par cindercatz, 23 mai 2013 - 01:36 .

[Xilizhra]

Harle Cerulean wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
Perfectly well, thanks to a certain amount of self-correcting in this problem. The city elves who'll join the Dalish here will be the ones willing to assimilate into Dalish culture, which the Dalish are totally fine with. Any devout Andrastians who don't want to do the whole Creator thing are perfectly free to remain in the shrunken Alienages.
.

It's really kind of funny how fine you are with groups of people being relegated to second-class citizenhood as long as they're not your pet groups.  

Most city elves would rather stay among their own kind than spread out among humans. The existence of Alienages isn't the problem, the problem is that they're rundown and terrible and have no significant amounts of money flowing into them. Certainly I believe that anti-elf racism should be stamped out, but while the city elves would likely work farther afield and in more lucrative positions in that case, the strongly communitarian element of elven culture leads me to believe that they'd all want to live together still.

Of course, a new Dalish realm may render all this moot.

[Harle Cerulean]

Xilizhra wrote...

Harle Cerulean wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
Perfectly well, thanks to a certain amount of self-correcting in this problem. The city elves who'll join the Dalish here will be the ones willing to assimilate into Dalish culture, which the Dalish are totally fine with. Any devout Andrastians who don't want to do the whole Creator thing are perfectly free to remain in the shrunken Alienages.
.

It's really kind of funny how fine you are with groups of people being relegated to second-class citizenhood as long as they're not your pet groups.  

Most city elves would rather stay among their own kind than spread out among humans. The existence of Alienages isn't the problem, the problem is that they're rundown and terrible and have no significant amounts of money flowing into them. Certainly I believe that anti-elf racism should be stamped out, but while the city elves would likely work farther afield and in more lucrative positions in that case, the strongly communitarian element of elven culture leads me to believe that they'd all want to live together still.

Of course, a new Dalish realm may render all this moot.

The issue, however, is that the Dalish consider city elves inferior.  They don't even consider them to be 'real elves' unless they're willing to listen to and obey everything the Dalish say.  If there were an elven kingdom, and city elves moved there to get away from being second-class citizens to humans, only to be treated like second-class citizens by the Dalish if they don't abandon the culture they've been developing for centuries in favor of the culture the Dalish have been developing, I doubt things would stay peaceful long.  Whether because the Dalish wanted the non-Dalish out of the country, or because the non-Dalish get fed up of being called 'flat ears' and mistreated, it wouldn't be 'self-correcting' without conflict.

Modifié par Harle Cerulean, 23 mai 2013 - 01:35 .

[cindercatz]

I think any City Elves who joined the Dalish would be taking a step up at that point, because the stronger the Dalish get, the worse it would get for the City Elves, and they're likely to even be expelled by human cities. The alienages were formed by elves that wanted security and took the humans' offer before, so basically it would be the same thing over again, only the Dalish wouldn't persecute or oppress them just for being elves. So combined with what would be worsening treatment by humans and an oppurtunity for a better life with the Dalish, I think they'd be eager to take that trade, though some would surely be bitter the hornet's nest was ever kicked in the first place.

As for the harsh attitude toward city elves who don't want to integrate with the dalish, think about it. The Dalish are still essentially in an ongoing struggle to save their culture from human destruction, while the original city elves conceded with some compromise. They'd be seen as somewhere between traitors and apologists, and it wouldn't be incorrect. They're not very well educated in general, either in human territory or in Dalish culture, and most of what they had when the alienages were formed has been lost as they've absorbed more human culture. So the Dalish are proud people on a permanent semi-war footing, and the city elves are basically poorly educated peasants whose ancestors were traitors, from their perspective. If an elf from human culture then rejects their offer to take them back in and raise them up or improve their condition, as they see it, it's a slap in the face by an ingrate.

Modifié par cindercatz, 23 mai 2013 - 01:52 .

[Wulfram]

The status of Andrasteanism in a revived Dales could be interesting. Particularly since forming an Elvish Chantry would likely be almost as offensive to the Val Royeaux Chantry as outright banning Andrasteanism.

Modifié par Wulfram, 23 mai 2013 - 01:42 .

[Xilizhra]

The issue, however, is that the Dalish consider city elves inferior. They don't even consider them to be 'real elves' unless they're willing to listen to and obey everything the Dalish say. If there were an elven kingdom, and city elves moved there to get away from being second-class citizens to humans, only to be treated like second-class citizens by the Dalish if they don't abandon the culture they've been developing for centuries in favor of the culture the Dalish have been developing, I doubt things would stay peaceful long. Whether because the Dalish wanted the non-Dalish out of the country, or because the non-Dalish get fed up of being called 'flat ears' and mistreated, it wouldn't be 'self-correcting' without conflict.

That which distinguishes their culture from Dalish culture is primarily the very fact of being perpetually second-class, and developing defenses against that. aside with the Andrastian thing. Which most elves don't seem to be hugely enthusiastic about anyway. Those elves who are fine with the Creators should have no real problem integrating; I suppose it's possible that some might create a form of heresy where the Maker is part of the Creator pantheon, but that seems like it'd anger the Chantry more than the Dalish, so I'm all for that. Also, the "flat-ears" thing only applies to those elves who refuse to join the Dalish; all of the immigrants to this new elven realm would be joining them, I believe.

[Harle Cerulean]

cindercatz wrote...

I think any City Elves who joined the Dalish would be taking a step up at that point, because the stronger the Dalish get, the worse it would get for the City Elves, and they're likely to even be expelled by human cities. The alienages were formed by elves that wanted security and took the humans' offer before, so basically it would be the same thing over again, only the Dalish wouldn't persecute or oppress them just for being elves. So combined with what would be worsening treatment by humans and an oppurtunity for a better life with the Dalish, I think they'd be eager to take that trade, though some would surely be bitter the hornet's nest was ever kicked in the first place.

No, the Dalish would just persecute and oppress the the city elves if the city elves didn't want to give up their own culture and take the Dalish's culture instead.  They'd persecute them for not being 'elves', in the Dalish view of what makes an elf (ie: being Dalish).

[cindercatz]

The city elves don't have their own culture. They have remnants of Dalish culture mixed with human culture, and not cohesively. They have generation gaps among themselves, because alienage culture is withering generation by generation. So the problems would come down to more education and economic mindset. I edited another paragraph about why the attitude onto my last post and should have just posted another, sorry 'bout that.

[Harle Cerulean]

Xilizhra wrote...

Harle Cerulean wrote...
The issue, however, is that the Dalish consider city elves inferior. They don't even consider them to be 'real elves' unless they're willing to listen to and obey everything the Dalish say. If there were an elven kingdom, and city elves moved there to get away from being second-class citizens to humans, only to be treated like second-class citizens by the Dalish if they don't abandon the culture they've been developing for centuries in favor of the culture the Dalish have been developing, I doubt things would stay peaceful long. Whether because the Dalish wanted the non-Dalish out of the country, or because the non-Dalish get fed up of being called 'flat ears' and mistreated, it wouldn't be 'self-correcting' without conflict.

That which distinguishes their culture from Dalish culture is primarily the very fact of being perpetually second-class, and developing defenses against that. aside with the Andrastian thing. Which most elves don't seem to be hugely enthusiastic about anyway. Those elves who are fine with the Creators should have no real problem integrating; I suppose it's possible that some might create a form of heresy where the Maker is part of the Creator pantheon, but that seems like it'd anger the Chantry more than the Dalish, so I'm all for that. Also, the "flat-ears" thing only applies to those elves who refuse to join the Dalish; all of the immigrants to this new elven realm would be joining them, I believe.

Given the way Thedas works, elves who stayed behind among humans would be at huge risk.  If a new kingdom is established for elves, why shouldn't city elves who don't want to become Dalish move there?  Getting away from mistreatment by humans isn't something that only the ones who idolize the Dalish want to do.  Are you suggesting that the new elven kingdom bar any elf who isn't Dalish?  That's a good way to get friction too.

And no, city elf culture has some distinct differences.  The city elves aren't a tribal-level mageocracy, for example.  For another, yes, Andrastianism.  My impression was that most city elves are devout.  The ones that joined the Qunari in DA2 were the truly desperate, and not nearly a majority of the Alienage; you can't point to that and go "Look, city elves don't care."  Most of them do.  The city elves have commerce, and trades that would be difficult for the nomadic Dalish to take up.  City elven customs would be very different from Dalish customs, given that the city elves are used to cramming a high population into a small area, while the Dalish may stick together for safety, but they can go off and have privacy easily when they feel like it.  Nomadic and city dwelling lifestyles are very different.  You can't just handwave all that and say "Eh, they all have pointy ears and elders tell stories, it's all the same."

Modifié par Harle Cerulean, 23 mai 2013 - 01:58 .

[Harle Cerulean]

cindercatz wrote...

The city elves don't have their own culture. They have remnants of Dalish culture mixed with human culture, and not cohesively. They have generation gaps among themselves, because alienage culture is withering generation by generation. So the problems would come down to more education and economic mindset. I edited another paragraph about why the attitude onto my last post and should have just posted another, sorry 'bout that.

They are a society.  They have existed as a society for centuries.  They have a culture.  It's not distinct and special like the Dalish's made-up 'real elven' culture, but that doesn't make it not a culture.  They have social habits, food, clothes, customs, traditions, homes, crafts.  These things?  They make.  A culture.

[Wulfram]

Valendrian and Cyrion seemed fairly pious, IIRC. And Shianni doesn't use any of those elvish gods' behinds as expletives

[Xilizhra]

Given the way Thedas works, elves who stayed behind among humans would be at huge risk. If a new kingdom is established for elves, why shouldn't city elves who don't want to become Dalish move there? Getting away from mistreatment by humans isn't something that only the ones who idolize the Dalish want to do. Are you suggesting that the new elven kingdom bar any elf who isn't Dalish? That's a good way to get friction too.

Because Andrastianism considers all other religions illegitimate and in need of being wiped out. As such, for the highly devout, it'd be better to suffer under whatever the humans dealt out than rejoin allegedly false gods. Not that I'm in favor of their suffering... although such people are also likely to be enemies of the mage rebellion, so they're not first on my priority list. As for the ones who're willing to consider the Creators a legitimate religion and worthy of living within? They're halfway there already.

And no, city elf culture has some distinct differences. The city elves aren't a tribal-level mageocracy, for example. For another, yes, Andrastianism. My impression was that most city elves are devout. The ones that joined the Qunari in DA2 were the truly desperate, and not nearly a majority of the Alienage; you can't point to that and go "Look, city elves don't care." Most of them do. The city elves have commerce, and trades that would be difficult for the nomadic Dalish to take up. City elven customs would be very different from Dalish customs, given that the city elves are used to cramming a high population into a small area, while the Dalish may stick together for safety, but they can go off and have privacy easily when they feel like it. Nomadic and city dwelling lifestyles are very different. You can't just handwave all that and say "Eh, they all have pointy ears and elders tell stories, it's all the same."

If this is a new elven realm, the nomadic aspect would be dropped, and the Dalish reworking their own culture at the same time to fit in; they may actually learn more from the city elves in this area than the other way around. Devoutness I mentioned already; those willing to accept the Creators as being a legitimate alternative are heretics to begin with.

They are a society.  They have existed as a society for centuries.  They have a culture.  It's not distinct and special like the Dalish's made-up 'real elven' culture, but that doesn't make it not a culture.  They have social habits, food, clothes, customs, traditions, homes, crafts.  These things?  They make.  A culture.

Actually, that's not "a" culture, but several, highly depending on which human kingdom the city elves in question are stuck in. The city elves are by no means a unified culture, whereas the Dalish more or less are.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 23 mai 2013 - 02:07 .