164 réponses à ce sujet

[cindercatz]

Harle Cerulean wrote...

And no, city elf culture has some distinct differences.  The city elves aren't a tribal-level mageocracy, for example.  For another, yes, Andrastianism.  My impression was that most city elves are devout.  The ones that joined the Qunari in DA2 were the truly desperate, and not nearly a majority of the Alienage; you can't point to that and go "Look, city elves don't care."  Most of them do.  The city elves have commerce, and trades that would be difficult for the nomadic Dalish to take up.  City elven customs would be very different from Dalish customs, given that the city elves are used to cramming a high population into a small area, while the Dalish may stick together for safety, but they can go off and have privacy easily when they feel like it.  Nomadic and city dwelling lifestyles are very different.  You can't just handwave all that and say "Eh, they all have pointy ears and elders tell stories, it's all the same."

They may not be a mage led (because any mages from an alienage would be taken away by the chantry if found), but their leadership is still based on merit and respect. In both cases, leadership is still a meritocracy.

Andrastianism I never saw as all that favored in alienages. It's more that they live in a human culture that both evangelizes them and outlaws their own religion, so some convert, and the rest are left with nothing to claim as their own. They're cultural orphans.

And yes, they look at trade and property from a human standpoint for the most part, because they've lived for generations in human cities under human authority, so the dominant culture is going to bleed through. They're also the poorest of the poor in that system, so moving to a communal system, for most of them, would be a massive step up both socially and economically.

Even the city elves' unique rituals, like maintaining the tree at the center of the alienage, are about trying to remember who they are as originally Dalish and trying to preserve that as the core of their community, as much as they could.

I'm not saying they don't care about who they are. I'm saying who they are has been stolen from them by human authority and by time isolated in a foreign culture, so they're not giving up anything, unless they've fully converted, but the culture they'd be converted into would be one that's persecuted and oppressed them, so I don't think they'd account for a sizable group.

[addiction21]

Xilizhra wrote...

 As for the ones who're willing to consider the Creators a legitimate religion and worthy of living within? They're halfway there already.

And the other half is what? Bending knee to the superior Dalish beliefs?

[cindercatz]

No, finally free to join their own culture and learn about it. Most of us like to know where we come from, I think.

[Harle Cerulean]

Xilizhra wrote...

Harle Cerulean wrote...
Given the way Thedas works, elves who stayed behind among humans would be at huge risk. If a new kingdom is established for elves, why shouldn't city elves who don't want to become Dalish move there? Getting away from mistreatment by humans isn't something that only the ones who idolize the Dalish want to do. Are you suggesting that the new elven kingdom bar any elf who isn't Dalish? That's a good way to get friction too.

Because Andrastianism considers all other religions illegitimate and in need of being wiped out. As such, for the highly devout, it'd be better to suffer under whatever the humans dealt out than rejoin allegedly false gods. Not that I'm in favor of their suffering... although such people are also likely to be enemies of the mage rebellion, so they're not first on my priority list. As for the ones who're willing to consider the Creators a legitimate religion and worthy of living within? They're halfway there already.

And the Dalish believe that elves who don't follow their religion aren't elves.  How is this any better?  It's like if someone believed I wasn't human because I'm not Christian.  It's pretty damn gross, and leads to abuse of the depersonized party.  Both sides have huge flaws.  And seriously?  The city elves aren't stupid.  If they hear about a new elven kingdom, a lot of them are going to want to go there to get away from living in alienages, religion or not.  They'll want to try for a better life.  That doesn't mean they won't want to bring their customs and beliefs with them.

Xilizhra wrote...

 

Harle Cerulean wrote...
And no, city elf culture has some distinct differences. The city elves aren't a tribal-level mageocracy, for example. For another, yes, Andrastianism. My impression was that most city elves are devout. The ones that joined the Qunari in DA2 were the truly desperate, and not nearly a majority of the Alienage; you can't point to that and go "Look, city elves don't care." Most of them do. The city elves have commerce, and trades that would be difficult for the nomadic Dalish to take up. City elven customs would be very different from Dalish customs, given that the city elves are used to cramming a high population into a small area, while the Dalish may stick together for safety, but they can go off and have privacy easily when they feel like it. Nomadic and city dwelling lifestyles are very different. You can't just handwave all that and say "Eh, they all have pointy ears and elders tell stories, it's all the same."

 
If this is a new elven realm, the nomadic aspect would be dropped, and the Dalish reworking their own culture at the same time to fit in; they may actually learn more from the city elves in this area than the other way around. Devoutness I mentioned already; those willing to accept the Creators as being a legitimate alternative are heretics to begin with.

Would it?  If the Dalish wanted to stop being nomads, they yes, they would need the city elves.  Sure, they could try to teach themselves agriculture, but they'd have some hungry years.  Not to mention pottery, metalworking, weaving, and all those other things that are very difficult to do if you move around frequently. 

Believe it or not, you can be devoutly religious without buying into the worst parts of your religion.  I know a number of people who are devoutly Christian, and they've never tried to kill me for being bisexual!  Fancy that.  I'm sure plenty of city elves would be willing to 'live and let live'.  No one's stoned Arianni for being an evil heretic and she's been living in the Kirkwall alienage for years.  You overexaggerate how violent your average Andrastian is.  Sister Petrice was a fanatic, not devout.  There's a difference.

Xilizhra wrote...

 

Harle Cerulean wrote...
They are a society.  They have existed as a society for centuries.  They have a culture.  It's not distinct and special like the Dalish's made-up 'real elven' culture, but that doesn't make it not a culture.  They have social habits, food, clothes, customs, traditions, homes, crafts.  These things?  They make.  A culture.

Actually, that's not "a" culture, but several, highly depending on which human kingdom the city elves in question are stuck in. The city elves are by no means a unified culture, whereas the Dalish more or less are.

True enough.  It would be very interesting to see such a kingdom - with Dalish being just one of them.  But the point being that city elves do have culture(s).  The Dalish being more or less unified (though every clan has differences, I'm sure; they only meet up every ten years or so, after all) doesn't make their culture better.

Also, can I just say that dealing with these quotes is a pain in the ass?  BSN needs a better quoting system.

Modifié par Harle Cerulean, 23 mai 2013 - 02:33 .

[Harle Cerulean]

cindercatz wrote...

No, finally free to join their own culture and learn about it. Most of us like to know where we come from, I think.

But the city elves do know where they came from.  That doesn't mean they think the Dalish culture is superior and that they should stop being who they are and become Dalish.  You can want to learn about old customs without wanting to adopt them.  And the Dalish way of life is not actually 'the real elven culture of the ancients', either.  Frankly, they aren't capable of having that culture.  Nomadic and settled lifestyles are very different, which leads to different cultures.

The Dalish have a culture that's just as cobbled-together as the city elves, and it's lovely for them; they're welcome to it.  But they pretend it makes them superior because it's the way the ancients lived, and it doesn't and isn't.

[Xilizhra]

And the Dalish believe that elves who don't follow their religion aren't elves. How is this any better? It's like if someone believed I wasn't human because I'm not Christian. It's pretty damn gross, and leads to abuse of the depersonized party. Both sides have huge flaws. And seriously? The city elves aren't stupid. If they hear about a new elven kingdom, a lot of them are going to want to go there to get away from living in alienages, religion or not. They'll want to try for a better life. That doesn't mean they won't want to bring their customs and beliefs with them.

It's not about religion, it's about identity. "Elvhen" seems to be a statement of cultural identity more than it does simple race; the Dalish don't believe that the city elves have physically transmuted into another race, and don't consider them "not people," just "not us." And if the city elves want to bring their own beliefs, it's possible... provided they don't involve calling the Creators evil and false (the reverse is not true of the Dalish, by the way; I've never heard any of them say that the Maker is evil and wrong).

Would it? If the Dalish wanted to stop being nomads, they yes, they would need the city elves. Sure, they could try to teach themselves agriculture, but they'd have some hungry years. Not to mention pottery, metalworking, weaving, and all those other things that are very difficult to do if you move around frequently.

Since the Dalish explicitly want a homeland again, I think they're mentally prepared for this.

Believe it or not, you can be devoutly religious without buying into the worst parts of your religion. I know a number of people who are devoutly Christian, and they've never tried to kill me for being bisexual! Fancy that. I'm sure plenty of city elves would be willing to 'live and let live'. No one's stoned Arianni for being an evil heretic and she's been living in the Kirkwall alienage for years. You overexaggerate how violent your average Andrastian is. Sister Petrice was a fanatic, not devout. There's a difference.

Killing bisexuals isn't the entire rationale for the religion to exist. The Chantry was founded as nothing more than a justification for conquest by the Orlesian Empire, and its beliefs have naturally remained in line with that. Of course, it's entirely probable that most city elves will be heretics in this manner, so it may not matter all that much, but in that case, they can integrate the Maker with the Creators in their own beliefs with relative ease.

if the city elves aren't trying to convert the Dalish and aren't insisting on a recreation of the Circle system, then they're carrying no significant baggage from the Chantry.

True enough. It would be very interesting to see such a kingdom - with Dalish being just one of them. But the point being that city elves do have culture(s). The Dalish being more or less unified (though every clan has differences, I'm sure; they only meet up every ten years or so, after all) doesn't make their culture better.

Better in what sense?

Modifié par Xilizhra, 23 mai 2013 - 02:44 .

[Wulfram]

? Believing in the Creators automatically says that the Maker is false. And vice-versa. I don't see how you get around that.

[Xilizhra]

Wulfram wrote...

? Believing in the Creators automatically says that the Maker is false. And vice-versa. I don't see how you get around that.

The same way that many small groups have integrated aspects of one religion into another: by completely ignoring that prohibition.

[Wulfram]

"The Maker made the world" is kinda fundamental to the religion.  Not sure how you ignore that.

[WardenWade]

Wulfram wrote...

"The Maker made the world" is kinda fundamental to the religion.  Not sure how you ignore that.

If it helps at all, Gaider touched on this topic in a thread here from some time back, saying basically that the elven pantheon are not "creators" of the world themselves and thus ancient elven beliefs are not necessarily at odds with believing in a Maker as well.

Modifié par WardenWade, 23 mai 2013 - 03:57 .

[Wulfram]

WardenWade wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

"The Maker made the world" is kinda fundamental to the religion.  Not sure how you ignore that.

If it helps at all, Gaider touched on this topic in a thread here from some time back, saying basically that the elven pantheon are not "creators" of the world themselves and thus ancient elven beliefs are not necessarily at odds with believing in a Maker as well.

Interesting, thanks

[KENNY4753]

Good questions OP.

1. Personally I think saying the Dalish were descendants from nobility is a big exaggeration. I believe the Dalish say that just because they are the ones who held on to their culture and they use it as a way to say they are better than the city elves. That said they may have had a monarchy/nobles in their Kingdom but that part of Elven history is lost.

2. The City Elves and Dalish may get along fine. Or they may not. One big factor could be someone like Keeper Lanaya (Zathrian's First). She was not born Dalish but managed to become Keeper. She is also stated to be a peacemaker in the DA:O epilogue (Although DA2 still says it didnt work out well). She is the best chance for there to be peace between the Dalish and humans in Ferelden and she could plauy the same role with the Dalish/City Elf tensions. Lanaya for Dalish Queen!!! (with my Dalish Warden ruling as her King)

3. I dont really fear a Dalish civil war but there will be high tension.

[WardenWade]

Wulfram wrote...

WardenWade wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

"The Maker made the world" is kinda fundamental to the religion.  Not sure how you ignore that.

If it helps at all, Gaider touched on this topic in a thread here from some time back, saying basically that the elven pantheon are not "creators" of the world themselves and thus ancient elven beliefs are not necessarily at odds with believing in a Maker as well.

Interesting, thanks

You are very welcome

[cindercatz]

Also, who's to say that the Dalish don't already worship the maker under the name of one of their own pantheon? The Dalish were Andraste's allies, also.

Harle Cerulean wrote...

cindercatz wrote...

No, finally free to join their own culture and learn about it. Most of us like to know where we come from, I think.

But the city elves do know where they came from.  That doesn't mean they think the Dalish culture is superior and that they should stop being who they are and become Dalish.  You can want to learn about old customs without wanting to adopt them.  And the Dalish way of life is not actually 'the real elven culture of the ancients', either.  Frankly, they aren't capable of having that culture.  Nomadic and settled lifestyles are very different, which leads to different cultures.

The Dalish have a culture that's just as cobbled-together as the city elves, and it's lovely for them; they're welcome to it.  But they pretend it makes them superior because it's the way the ancients lived, and it doesn't and isn't.

The city elves don't come from the original ancient elven nation, though. They come from the Dalish. When the Chantry ordered an exalted march against the Dales, and the Dalish lost, that's the origin of the city elves. I forget his name, but even the elf that traveled at the right hand of Andraste herself died in that war, if I remember right, and not even he was Andrastian. That means the Dales aided in Andraste's original march against Tevinter, were supposedly honored as great allies, and then the Chantry turns around conquers the Dales. Part of the deal was giving up all parts of their own culture at odds with Chantry edicts, such as practicing their religion. Those that capitulated became the city elves. Those that refused are still Dalish. And the whole thing was founded on betrayal, hence the Dalish bitterness. It's not that long ago, only since the start of the Chantry era, a few hundred years.

Also, it's explicitly stated multiple times that the city elves are losing their cultural heritage, generation over generation. Most current city elves supposedly don't even know why they practice their rituals anymore. Not ancient rituals, but rituals designed to preserve their Dalish culture. The Dalish memory is far longer, because they teach it with each generation outside the yoke of Chantry authority. The history they're struggling to rebuild is that of the ancient Elven empire the Tevinter destroyed, much earlier.

edits: typos galore

Modifié par cindercatz, 23 mai 2013 - 04:31 .

[cindercatz]

That would be cool, but there's no reason you couldn't have elven ghettos still around in some way or another. Either way, it can only reach it's best potential if we're allowed to play Elvhen again. So I'm hoping they'll save the climax 'til DA4 or 5 too.

[WardenWade]

StreetMagic wrote...

I hope they don't make too many political changes to elves just yet. There are a lot more interesting things to explore about elves in the state they're in. So far, the game engines haven't done an Alienage justice either. They're very small and just symbolic representations of a neighborhood. I'd like to see a larger, more realistic ghetto. I'd also like to see the Elven equivalent of Bill the Butcher from Gangs of New York. Heh. The rebellions so far just aren't cutting it.

cindercatz wrote...

That would be cool, but there's no reason you couldn't have elven ghettos still around in some way or another. Either way, it can only reach it's best potential if we're allowed to play Elvhen again. So I'm hoping they'll save the climax 'til DA4 or 5 too.

Yes to both.  The alienages have a lot of stories yet to be told, I think...and the elven situation is something I would love to explore further an elf.

[LobselVith8]

Xilizhra wrote...

Stella-Arc wrote...

If, and this is a big if, the elves do get their land back, how will the city elves and the dalish get along? These groups are vastly different and while the dalish, according to DA:O, will be ready to teach their city brethren all that they had lost, I doubt it will go smoothly. In my opinion, there could be some sort of civil war in the Dales.

Perfectly well, thanks to a certain amount of self-correcting in this problem. The city elves who'll join the Dalish here will be the ones willing to assimilate into Dalish culture, which the Dalish are totally fine with. Any devout Andrastians who don't want to do the whole Creator thing are perfectly free to remain in the shrunken Alienages.

Like Pol, who was embraced by the Sabrae Clan and given a friendly embrace among the People. We also have Ariane talking about the elven mage who escaped the Circle to join her people, and Aneirin, who was rescued by Zathrian's clan when the templars tried to murder the boy. We even have humans who have been accepted by the Dalish, like the historical Aveline and Feynriel.

Xilizhra wrote...

Stella-Arc wrote...

While a civil war could result between the city elves and the dalish due to cultural and religious differences, another reason could be whether the Dales should be isolated or open. Regardless if you were dalish or not in DA:O, the dalish in Ferelden will get their own land (which is debatable since it was implied by King Alistair in DAII that things didn't go well *hmph*) and thus might be willing to associate with humans. This could also cause division among the dalish. In other words, civil war.

The answer here is simple but requires a great deal of work to bring about: was the Quickening caused by human proximity, or not? If that can be learned... well, then it should be closed if the Quickening did have that cause, relatively open if it didn't.

To note: the Dalish only get the Hinterlands if the Dalish Warden asks for her people to be given their own land, or if the Dalish Warden performed the US in defeating the Archdemon. The flags aren't set for the Dalish to get their own land otherwise, even though the Dalish slides are bugged to show up for non-Dalish Wardens.

As for the Quickening, we may never know. However, the Dalish acknowledge that they live longer than their Alienage counterparts, and Gaider acknowledged that the Dalish seem to live longer the more generations they live seperate from humans, so there could be some merit to the elven lore about the Arlathan elves being immortal. We already have the developers indicate that the children of humans and elves produce human children because of a magical reason, rather than a genetic one.

[In Exile]

Stella-Arc wrote...
1. I could see this. Maybe they would be the first to create a democratic government (pfft ha).

2. That...is scary but likely.

3. What? 
 

Re#3, DA:O had a bug where everyone got the Dalish boon. Your third point mentions the land in Ferelden, but that's not cannon (even as an epilogue slide, which have gotten ignored a whole lot post DA:O).

The clans being seperate from one another could definitely influence how they would govern the Dales. In the codices, it is said that the dalish clans vary; some may get along fine with humans, others would live like bandits, or be neutral. Such differences would create problems in the future. Then add city elves and that would ignite chaos. Too many variations. You do bring up an interesting point about city elves perhaps being treated as second-class citizens if a new Dales is ever formed.  

If you read what the Dalish have to say about the CEs and their own relationship to the Dales, I imagine you'd be shocked. They basically say that, because they are the children and descendants of servants, the CEs are born to serve and be servile, and it's natural for them to be subjugated in the Alienages. That's only a few steps away from just outright expoliting/oppressing them as a servant cast. 

[In Exile]

cindercatz wrote...

They may not be a mage led (because any mages from an alienage would be taken away by the chantry if found), but their leadership is still based on merit and respect. In both cases, leadership is still a meritocracy.

Dalish leadership isn't a meritocracy when you have to be born a mage to qualify for it. It's based right in systemic discrimination. 

I'm not saying they don't care about who they are. I'm saying who they are has been stolen from them by human authority and by time isolated in a foreign culture, so they're not giving up anything, unless they've fully converted, but the culture they'd be converted into would be one that's persecuted and oppressed them, so I don't think they'd account for a sizable group.

The Dalish made it up as much as the CEs have. It's pretty evident that the Dalish know very little about what the elves were really like. The Dalish abandoned having the equivalent of the tree at the centre of their homesteads, for example. While the Dalish worship what they think the Elven gods were that doesn't per se make them properly elven, any more than the CEs having a big tree in the centre of their living space means they're rebuild Arlathan. 

I suppose the Dalish being a mageocracy brings them closer to what the Dalish say Arlathan was, but that isn't necessarily a good thing. 

[Stella-Arc]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Stella-Arc wrote...

If, and this is a big if, the elves do get their land back, how will the city elves and the dalish get along? These groups are vastly different and while the dalish, according to DA:O, will be ready to teach their city brethren all that they had lost, I doubt it will go smoothly. In my opinion, there could be some sort of civil war in the Dales.

Perfectly well, thanks to a certain amount of self-correcting in this problem. The city elves who'll join the Dalish here will be the ones willing to assimilate into Dalish culture, which the Dalish are totally fine with. Any devout Andrastians who don't want to do the whole Creator thing are perfectly free to remain in the shrunken Alienages.

Like Pol, who was embraced by the Sabrae Clan and given a friendly embrace among the People. We also have Ariane talking about the elven mage who escaped the Circle to join her people, and Aneirin, who was rescued by Zathrian's clan when the templars tried to murder the boy. We even have humans who have been accepted by the Dalish, like the historical Aveline and Feynriel.

Xilizhra wrote...

Stella-Arc wrote...

While a civil war could result between the city elves and the dalish due to cultural and religious differences, another reason could be whether the Dales should be isolated or open. Regardless if you were dalish or not in DA:O, the dalish in Ferelden will get their own land (which is debatable since it was implied by King Alistair in DAII that things didn't go well *hmph*) and thus might be willing to associate with humans. This could also cause division among the dalish. In other words, civil war.

The answer here is simple but requires a great deal of work to bring about: was the Quickening caused by human proximity, or not? If that can be learned... well, then it should be closed if the Quickening did have that cause, relatively open if it didn't.

To note: the Dalish only get the Hinterlands if the Dalish Warden asks for her people to be given their own land, or if the Dalish Warden performed the US in defeating the Archdemon. The flags aren't set for the Dalish to get their own land otherwise, even though the Dalish slides are bugged to show up for non-Dalish Wardens.

As for the Quickening, we may never know. However, the Dalish acknowledge that they live longer than their Alienage counterparts, and Gaider acknowledged that the Dalish seem to live longer the more generations they live seperate from humans, so there could be some merit to the elven lore about the Arlathan elves being immortal. We already have the developers indicate that the children of humans and elves produce human children because of a magical reason, rather than a genetic one.

1. That may be the case but I doubt that the Dalish as a whole accepts humans, especially elven-blooded humans. You mention the historical Aveline but I think that is a rare case. Aveline was also a baby when she was found. It would probably be different if she was older. There are dalish clans that get a long fine with humans, as mentioned in the codex, but that is one of many different quirks that differ among clans. 

Feynriel was never accepted as a member of the Sabrae Clan. He was tolerated because Keeper Marethari took him under her wing. Which is a stark contrast to Arriane's return to her People who accepts her despite having a elven-blooded child. Don't forget that Arriane's former clan did not want to help raise the child which was why she left for an alienage. So, again. The dalish vary and that could cause friction if the Dales were ever reclaimed and that is without city elves and elven-blooded humans added into the mix. 

2. So that's a bug? Bummer. 

Modifié par Stella-Arc, 24 mai 2013 - 02:49 .

[Jedi Master of Orion]

The Dalish as a whole are hardly unified about any major issues, such as how much they would tolerate humans or city elves. Some Dalish tribes trade with human villages, others are nothing more than murderous raiders. Some of them see the City Elves as being able to teach them valuable things about the shemlen and others see them as worthless traitors who no longer know what it means to be elves. Some Dalish don't even want a homeland and are content with their nomadic life.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 24 mai 2013 - 03:18 .

[LobselVith8]

Stella-Arc wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Like Pol, who was embraced by the Sabrae Clan and given a friendly embrace among the People. We also have Ariane talking about the elven mage who escaped the Circle to join her people, and Aneirin, who was rescued by Zathrian's clan when the templars tried to murder the boy. We even have humans who have been accepted by the Dalish, like the historical Aveline and Feynriel.

That may be the case but I doubt that the Dalish as a whole accepts humans, especially elven-blooded humans. You mention the historical Aveline but I think that is a rare case. Aveline was also a baby when she was found. It would probably be different if she was older. There are dalish clans that get a long fine with humans, as mentioned in the codex, but that is one of many different quirks that differ among clans.

The Dalish are as varied and as different as humans, dwarves, and Kossith. Clearly, not every Dalish will be the same.

Stella-Arc wrote...

Feynriel was never accepted as a member of the Sabrae Clan. He was tolerated because Keeper Marethari took him under her wing. Which is a stark contrast to Arriane's return to her People who accepts her despite having a elven-blooded child. Don't forget that Arriane's former clan did not want to help raise the child which was why she left for an alienage. So, again. The dalish vary and that could cause friction if the Dales were ever reclaimed and that is without city elves and elven-blooded humans added into the mix.

Feynriel joined the Sabrae Clan if Hawke encouraged him to go to the Dalish. That isn't a matter for debate. We even have Dalish hunters willing to fight the templars to protect him. I'm not pretending as though there wasn't friction because Feynriel was human (as all children of humans and elves are), but it's not as though he wasn't a member of the clan at this point.

Also, Arianni left her clan to be with Vincento. I recall Arianni's dialogue about staying away from the clan, but Marethari gives contradictory dialogue where she says it was Arianni's own choice to stay away from the People for so long.

Stella-Arc wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

To note: the Dalish only get the Hinterlands if the Dalish Warden asks for her people to be given their own land, or if the Dalish Warden performed the US in defeating the Archdemon. The flags aren't set for the Dalish to get their own land otherwise, even though the Dalish slides are bugged to show up for non-Dalish Wardens.

As for the Quickening, we may never know. However, the Dalish acknowledge that they live longer than their Alienage counterparts, and Gaider acknowledged that the Dalish seem to live longer the more generations they live seperate from humans, so there could be some merit to the elven lore about the Arlathan elves being immortal. We already have the developers indicate that the children of humans and elves produce human children because of a magical reason, rather than a genetic one.

So that's a bug? Bummer.  

Yes, it's a bug. Ejoslin pointed out a long time ago that it's bugged - the slides appear, but it's a mistake because of the programming, and the flags aren't even set for non-Dalish Wardens. The humans who were freed from the curse taking on the surname "Wolf" in honor of the Lady of the Forest is also bugged, as it never shows up, but it's supposed to.

While the Dalish may not get the Hinterlands, perhaps the protagonist can work with the elven leaders and work with them to liberate the kingdom of the Dales from the Orlesian occupation.

[Knight of Dane]

LobselVith8 wrote...
While the Dalish may not get the Hinterlands, perhaps the protagonist can work with the elven leaders and work with them to liberate the kingdom of the Dales from the Orlesian occupation.

It was a Kingdom? Huh, wonder who would be their king now..

[Sir JK]

LobselVith8 wrote...

The Dalish are as varied and as different as humans, dwarves, and Kossith. Clearly, not every Dalish will be the same.

This I agree with, very much so. I even imagine there's an even greater range between the clans than there is between Alienages, since their culture will depend on how welcoming the locals are. The Brecilian forest clans have different situations to deal with than the Wending Woods one, and neither will be anything remotely close to the semi-permanentaly settled ones up north (whether they are in Llomerryn, somewhere else in Rivain or Ayesleigh is a bit unclear). The clans from around the Free Marches will probably view the Anderfel ones as rather gruff and stingy (considering how sparse and desolate the Anderfels are).

Blood magic among keepers will be more and more likely the closer you get to Minrathous, I imagine. While at the same time spirit magic gets increasingly tolerated the closer you get to central Rivain.

There's probably a fair bit of secrets and clan-specific lore that shapes particular clans as well. Zathrian's clan had 3 centuries of the same keeper (that did not think highly of humanity) which more than likely shaped their clan in a specific way.

All in all, there's probably a fantastic variety between the various clans...

Heh... the hinterlands failure may very well have boiled down to the Dalish clans not being able to agree... how interesting if that was part of the answer

Knight of Dane wrote...

It was a Kingdom? Huh, wonder who would be their king now..

Hassandriel, lord of Halamshiral perhaps? It's the only named elf we have from that time... and given that Halamshiral was the capitol... it fits.