164 réponses à ce sujet

[Aolbain]

BlueMagitek wrote...

Aolbain, how dare you suggest such a thing? Now I'm going to need to rant about how your people (the Dwarves) are the cause of all the Dalish's ills! </Dalish Storyteller>

To be fair, it's true. Every night our miners sneak into elven homes and steal their life force (don't ask me how, it's a trade secret) to later sell it as lyrium to the chantry, thus proving once again that the andrastian fate is the ultimate evil.

[LobselVith8]

Aolbain wrote...

1. Yes, the city elves lives in dispair but I dont see how that justifies throwing people out of their homes.

Again, it might not happen. It was pointed out as one possibility for the elves reclaiming the Dales. It's not the only one.

Aolbain wrote...

2. That was what I was talking about, freedom of religion. It would take hard work but it was archivabel in real life and should be posible in Thedas.

I'm not interested in letting the elves suffer until the Andrastian humans get their act together.

Aolbain wrote...

3. So we're back at the dalish master race thingy again?.

I'm talking about the elves being their own masters, and having a nation where they can freely follow their own religion. A mecca for all the different elves of Thedas to come and work together, where the Dalish and the many different Alienage elves could try to forge a new path.

Sir JK once addressed the many different elves that currently exist in Thedas:

Sir JK wrote...

We're going to have the lavish and extravagant Orlesian elves, the death-inspired Nevarran elves, devout Ander elves, freeminded Fereldan elves, diverse Marcher elves, trading Antivan elves and a handful of Rivaini elves. They're all going to have absorbed values and such from their "host"-cultures. They're going to share the most fundamental things such as hahrens and Vhenadhals of course. 

And religion. They're all going to share the Chant of Light. Some will abandon it sure. But for many of them it'll be the one of them few things they have in common. One of the few and strongest societal links they have. So there's going to be a "flat-ear" Chantry establishing itself quickly in the Dales. It'll be grassroots, sure. But it'll be there. Along side with the Dalish and a small Tevinter Chantry and... possibly even the Qun. 

I'd like to see the stories that can be told about all these different elves across the continent coming togther in a new homeland where elves won't be limited or oppressed, and dealing with their differences while they build a new homeland for their people.

[BlueMagitek]

Ah, well, I guess it is deserved then. :/

Since we're being forthcoming with each other, I guess I'll let slip that the Elves are actually quite fortunate that the humans interacted with them first. The Qunari would not have shown such mercy. But don't let them know that, the elves need a common bogeyman.

[Aolbain]

^ I would too, I just find it unnecessary to destroy another people in the process (which relocating, killing or installing as new second class would do.)

Modifié par Aolbain, 26 mai 2013 - 09:56 .

[Aolbain]

BlueMagitek wrote...

Ah, well, I guess it is deserved then. :/

Since we're being forthcoming with each other, I guess I'll let slip that the Elves are actually quite fortunate that the humans interacted with them first. The Qunari would not have shown such mercy. But don't let them know that, the elves need a common bogeyman.

Indeed. Space-Buddha forbid we start to view humans as people (gasp!).

[BlueMagitek]

Wait, you don't worship Space-Bhaalspawn? I'm afraid we aren't even on the same page. :/

Modifié par BlueMagitek, 26 mai 2013 - 09:57 .

[Aolbain]

You insult my honour sir! I demand satisfaction. Pistols at dawn!

[Wulfram]

BlueMagitek wrote...

^Wulf :

Isn't the land south of Ferelden, past the Kocari Wilds, Uncharted Territory? As they're all on the same continent, there's no way to escape *all* humans, but there's a difference in settling near barbarian tribes and settling next to established nations.

Well it's uncharted presumably because it's arctic.  So I'm not sure how habitable it's likely to be.

[BlueMagitek]

Filament :

If the Qunari are elves on mabari steroids, then the Dales won't matter at all because the Qunari have a homeland! Problem solved.

Aolbain :

Ser, I do not insult your honor, but I find your lack of faith in the Bhaalspawn, master of summoning a demon by accident with Wild Magic when you're still in Irenicus' dungeon, disturbing.

Wulf :

I'm looking at the Map of Thedas, and from what I remember of the Kocari wilderness, it wasn't really artic at all. South of it might be colder, but it's possible to survive in cold weather.

[Aolbain]

Its too late now. I already demanded a duel. Pistols at dawn it is!

[LobselVith8]

Dave of Canada wrote...

"They did it first" isn't a valid excuse for genocide, Lobsel.

I'm talking about the possibility of being able to help the elves reclaim control over the Dales, while Orlais is in a civil war and the rest of the world is dealing with the fallout of the Mage-Templar War.

It seems like it could be possible, since Empress Celene was lured out of the capital because of a rumored elven rebellion that was brewing, although that may have simply been a deception on Grand Duke Gaspard's part. However, The Masked Empire seems to also suggest that the elves are rebelling (from King Cousland):

"The book focuses on Empress Celene and the Orlesian Civil War. The novel will supposedly explore the relationship between the Empress and Grand Duke Gaspard, who now leads the rebel forces against the empress, as he begins to doubt her ability to find a diplomatic solution to problems with the mages and to deal with elven uprisings."

[LobselVith8]

Aolbain wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

"They did it first" isn't a valid excuse for genocide, Lobsel.

Of course it is, but only when elves does it.

I'm addressing a storyline where our protagonist might have the option to help the elves currently in the Dales regain their homeland, which is currently under Orlesian control, as well as the elves living elsewhere. The new Dragon Age novel also seems to make reference to an elven plot as well:

"Briala has been Celene’s handmaid since the two of them were children, subtly using her position to help improve the lives of elves across Orlais. She is Celene’s confidante, spymaster, and lover, but when politics force the empress to choose between the rights of Briala’s people and the Orlesian throne, Briala must in turn decide where her true loyalties lie.

"Alliances are forged and promises broken as Celene and Gaspard battle for the throne of Orlais But in the end, the elves who hide in the forests or starve in the alienages may decide the fate of the masked empire."

I'm not terribly interested in the Orlesian civil war, but I would be interested in working with the elven leaders to help them in their goal.

[Ausstig]

Wait don't the Elves have a semi-permanent home in Rivain? Why not just go there, no war and they re close to their ACTUAL homeland Arlathan.

[BlueMagitek]

I actually asked that last page, to no avail.

[MisterJB]

Who knows? Maybe the terms of the arrangement don't please the most xenophobic clans; they are living inside human land rather than having their own; or maybe the whole thing stands on rather shaky ground and a massive influx of elves would lead to confrontation with the rivainis.

[EmperorSahlertz]

I doubt the Rivaini would appreciate the Elves invading their lands...

[Xilizhra]

A thought experiment:

Imagine there's some man, who has an extremely nice watch. Gold, bejewelled, that kind of thing. Because he's someone with rather a lot of foresight, he makes a will fairly early on and leaves it to his daughter, soon after which you shoot him in the head and steal the watch. Somehow, you get away with this, have your own kid at some point, and pass the watch down to him.
Now, the question is: who owns the watch?

[MisterJB]

Watch, civilization. One generation, 40 generations. Returning watch, forcible relocation or outright murder of entire families.
Eh, close enough, right?

[EmperorSahlertz]

Xilizhra wrote...

A thought experiment:

Imagine there's some man, who has an extremely nice watch. Gold, bejewelled, that kind of thing. Because he's someone with rather a lot of foresight, he makes a will fairly early on and leaves it to his daughter, soon after which you shoot him in the head and steal the watch. Somehow, you get away with this, have your own kid at some point, and pass the watch down to him.
Now, the question is: who owns the watch?

Before that simily is adequate, you will have to make it so the old man attacks you, and you kill him in self-defense, loot the watch off of his corpse, then pass it on through your family for generations.

[Xilizhra]

MisterJB wrote...

Watch, civilization. One generation, 40 generations. Returning watch, forcible relocation or outright murder of entire families.
Eh, close enough, right?

Who says families would have to be relocated? I mean, if they want to live under Dalish leadership and no longer exclusively worship Andraste, I'm sure something can be arranged.

[BlueMagitek]

Are we still going to ignore the Dalish just moving to a remote corner of Thedas instead of next to Orlais?

[MisterJB]

The cultural belief that humans are plague bearers as well as extreme hostility shown to any human who even nears their camps, regardless of motive, plus their past behavior of not even allowing merchants or diplomats to engage in civilized discourse with their leaders at the times they had a nation plus over six hundred years of racial hatred. Past behavior is the best predictor of future behavior.