284 réponses à ce sujet

[Shevy]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

With Cory after his 'death', the remaining Warden then talks in the same manner as Cory; it would be fairly easy to simply kill said Warden in a 'better safe than sorry' scenario.

Yes, the change in his voice is noticable but as Hawke you don't have the information that it could be Cory who possessed the body through a "souljump". (Which isn't confirmed at all)

It could just be like they mention and their mind is clear now once Cory is gone. You have no reason to not believe it.

Modifié par Shevy_001, 23 mai 2013 - 12:48 .

[KiwiQuiche]

Sifr1449 wrote...

I suspect that Varric may have added that aspect. It seems more likely to me, Larius/Janeka didn't appear to be possessed at the time, but since Legacy took place, as rumours of Corypheus' survival began to appear, Varric realised that they'd all been duped?

We know that Varric likes to indulge in the occasional embellishment and Orwellian editing, after all?

Everyone needs to stop blaming Varric for Hawke's stupidity.

[KiwiQuiche]

Shevy_001 wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

With Cory after his 'death', the remaining Warden then talks in the same manner as Cory; it would be fairly easy to simply kill said Warden in a 'better safe than sorry' scenario.

Yes, the change in his voice is noticable but as Hawke you don't have the information that it could be Cory who possessed the body through a "souljump". (Which isn't confirmed at all)

It could just be like they mention and their mind is clear now once Cory is gone. You have no reason to not believe it.

All the same, considering how damn dangerous Cory is, it would have been a lot safer in the long run to kill the Wardens present, just in case.

[Sutekh]

I'm gonna play devil's advocate here because I overall agree with you.

The problem here is player's knowledge vs. Hawke's knowledge. Not talking about meta-gaming, but about Hawke more likely actual level of general knowledge.

The Anders thing for instance: anyone having a little familiarity with chemistry would immediately pick up on the Sala Petrae and Drake Stone thing being saltpeter and sulfur. That's the first thing that comes to our mind, so we're like "You idjit, can't you see what he's cooking?". But Hawke, born and raised in a fantasy medieval setting, wouldn't. His first thought would more likely be "Ah, ok, it must be one of those magicky potions" (and a mage Hawke, not having been educated in the Circle, would fall for it too).

The mother thing: We're immersed in pop culture full of serial killers stories. We're very familiar with that kind of plot, used to profiling stories, procedurals etc... So, the lilies thing immediately raises a red flag "That looks very serial killerish" and we connect the dots. Again, Hawke wouldn't. Not in a world where abominations are a more tangible concern than weird men offering flowers to vanishing women, where murder occurs in the streets on a daily basis (what we all the thugs attacks and all), and where profiling isn't even the remote idea of a possibility.

It's the very same thing as watching a horror flick and yelling at the screen "Don't go in the basement!!!". We know that there's something bad in there because we know the movie's genre and how it works, but what are the odds that the characters first explanation of the weird noises in the walls is "Ghosts in the basement" as opposed to "Pipes acting up, let's go fix them".

Thing is, we can't unknow what we know, and it's virtually impossible to slip in the shoes of someone not knowing this things. That's, IMHO, the writers' mistake. Because, excusable or not, we do end up with the feeling that PC of ours is either really naive or really lazy, or that we're being railroaded, and it's frustrating.

So, maybe, avoid those plot points involving things likely familiar to the players but not to the character?

(Doesn't explain everything, too. The "O" thing in particular.)

As for the poison line, there's a difference between killing people in combat and poisoning possibly innocent people. You've got to draw the line somewhere, after all. This said, Hawke had moments more facepalming ("It was blood mages!" comes to mind).

Modifié par Sutekh, 23 mai 2013 - 01:42 .

[Shevy]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Shevy_001 wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

With Cory after his 'death', the remaining Warden then talks in the same manner as Cory; it would be fairly easy to simply kill said Warden in a 'better safe than sorry' scenario.

Yes, the change in his voice is noticable but as Hawke you don't have the information that it could be Cory who possessed the body through a "souljump". (Which isn't confirmed at all)

It could just be like they mention and their mind is clear now once Cory is gone. You have no reason to not believe it.

All the same, considering how damn dangerous Cory is, it would have been a lot safer in the long run to kill the Wardens present, just in case.

But why, in the person of Hawke, should I do this? I don't know that something like a "souljump" is even possible. He/she doesn't know the archdemon can do it and thus maybe Cory could do it too (which we as players don't know for sure, just assume)

I don't like Hawke too, but this point I have to give him.

Modifié par Shevy_001, 23 mai 2013 - 12:53 .

[KiwiQuiche]

Shevy_001 wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Shevy_001 wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

With Cory after his 'death', the remaining Warden then talks in the same manner as Cory; it would be fairly easy to simply kill said Warden in a 'better safe than sorry' scenario.

Yes, the change in his voice is noticable but as Hawke you don't have the information that it could be Cory who possessed the body through a "souljump". (Which isn't confirmed at all)

It could just be like they mention and their mind is clear now once Cory is gone. You have no reason to not believe it.

All the same, considering how damn dangerous Cory is, it would have been a lot safer in the long run to kill the Wardens present, just in case.

But why, in the person of Hawke, should I do this? I don't know that something like a "souljump" is even possible. He/she doesn't know the archdemon can do it and thus maybe Cory could do it too (which we as players don't know for sure, just assume)

I don't like Hawke too, but this point I have to give him.

Considering all the loony crap Hawke has seen throughout the years, seeing something 'soul jump' wouldn't be too far-fetched. Cory is also an incredibly powerful mage; one of the first Big Baddies who broke into the Golden Living Room. Hawke has seen mages force demons into templars; having a mage jump into the nearest body, especially one as powerful as Cory, wouldn't be a stretch. But the game doesn't even let you bloody test them like you did the Templar. :| You just frolic off.

[DatOneFanboy]

i like female hawke she funny and lesbians are hot

[KiwiQuiche]

DatOneFanboy wrote...

i like female hawke she funny and lesbians are hot

Great, I seem to have attracted the local DAI forum troll.

-10 for effort.

[Sifr]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Sifr1449 wrote...

I suspect that Varric may have added that aspect. It seems more likely to me, Larius/Janeka didn't appear to be possessed at the time, but since Legacy took place, as rumours of Corypheus' survival began to appear, Varric realised that they'd all been duped?

We know that Varric likes to indulge in the occasional embellishment and Orwellian editing, after all?

Everyone needs to stop blaming Varric for Hawke's stupidity.

Why? As the narrator, most of these things are Varric's fault?

Despite being a close friend, how does Varric know what runs through Hawke's head? How do we know we're seeing everything that actually happened? And was Varric even there for some of these things?!

This is why I think we should be fair and give Dragon Age 2 a bit of slack, because with the framing device and the narrator being a self-admitted liar, we don't know the truth, only what Varric says it is?!

Is that an excuse for simply ambiguous writing? No, I'm not saying it is!

But from an audience perspective, I'm willing to accept that I don't know the truth and perhaps never will? It's ultimately a mystery plot and like Cassandra, compels me to think about the things I'm seeing and try to work out the truth that may be hidden between the lines?

Much like Anders, you have to question how much of his behaviour in Dragon Age 2 is merely Varric's impression of him or how this might have been shaped by Varric's feelings of bitterness and betrayal at his later actions?

Varric as the unreliable narrator leaves a lot of ambiguity to the game and lends itself to a lot of interpretation.

Personally, this is why I enjoy it so much.

Modifié par Sifr1449, 23 mai 2013 - 01:06 .

[KiwiQuiche]

Sifr1449 wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Sifr1449 wrote...

I suspect that Varric may have added that aspect. It seems more likely to me, Larius/Janeka didn't appear to be possessed at the time, but since Legacy took place, as rumours of Corypheus' survival began to appear, Varric realised that they'd all been duped?

We know that Varric likes to indulge in the occasional embellishment and Orwellian editing, after all?

Everyone needs to stop blaming Varric for Hawke's stupidity.

Why? As the narrator, most of these things are Varric's fault?

Despite being a close friend, how does Varric know what runs through Hawke's head? How do we know we're seeing everything that actually happened? And was Varric even there for some of these things?!

This is why I think we should be fair and give Dragon Age 2 a bit of slack, because with the framing device and the narrator being a self-admitted liar, we don't know the truth, only what Varric says it is?!

Is that an excuse for simply ambiguous writing? No, I'm not saying it is!

But from an audience perspective, I'm willing to accept that I don't know the truth and perhaps never will? It's ultimately a mystery plot and like Cassandra, compels me to think about the things I'm seeing and try to work out the truth that may be hidden between the lines?

Much like Anders, you have to question how much of his behaviour in Dragon Age 2 is merely Varric's impression of him or how this might have been shaped by Varric sense of bitterness and betrayal at Anders' actions?

Varric as the unreliable narrator leaves a lot of ambiguity to the game and lends itself to a lot of interpretation.

I'm not too sure if you are mocking me or not.

And trying to blame all of DA2 flaws due to the way the narrative was presented, i.e as a story being retold, isn't a good thing. If that was the case, Varric wouldn't know a thing if you never took  him with you, so that's debunked.

[Shevy]

Sifr1449 wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Sifr1449 wrote...

I suspect that Varric may have added that aspect. It seems more likely to me, Larius/Janeka didn't appear to be possessed at the time, but since Legacy took place, as rumours of Corypheus' survival began to appear, Varric realised that they'd all been duped?

We know that Varric likes to indulge in the occasional embellishment and Orwellian editing, after all?

Everyone needs to stop blaming Varric for Hawke's stupidity.

Why? As the narrator, most of these things are Varric's fault?

Despite being a close friend, how does Varric know what runs through Hawke's head? How do we know we're seeing everything that actually happened? And was Varric even there for some of these things?!

This is why I think we should be fair and give Dragon Age 2 a bit of slack, because with the framing device and the narrator being a self-admitted liar, we don't know the truth, only what Varric says it is?!

Is that an excuse for simply ambiguous writing? No, I'm not saying it is!

But from an audience perspective, I'm willing to accept that I don't know the truth and perhaps never will? It's ultimately a mystery plot and like Cassandra, compels me to think about the things I'm seeing and try to work out the truth that may be hidden between the lines?

Much like Anders, you have to question how much of his behaviour in Dragon Age 2 is merely Varric's impression of him or how this might have been shaped by Varric sense of bitterness and betrayal at Anders' actions?

Varric as the unreliable narrator leaves a lot of ambiguity to the game and lends itself to a lot of interpretation.

I wouldn't go that route because if you do, the whole game becomes pointless.

[Sifr]

Not mocking at all, merely stating an opinion.

I'm not saying the flaws aren't all down the story, but I'm saying that they are somewhat understandable and your arguments for the stupidity is because you simply don't know how much of characterisation is being shaped by Varric or not.

Varric was there, but how much of it was he there for or did he hear about second hand? He's got spies everywhere and he's pretty good at finding out things, so he could easily piece it together?

The point being, Hawke's actions clearly don't lend themselves to being called stupid, nor is if fair to judge the character when we're viewing them through the lens of a storyteller who frequently lies and at one point turns himself into Tony Montana before Cassandra called him out on it?!

[Shevy]

Sifr1449 wrote...

Not mocking at all, merely stating an opinion.

I'm not saying the flaws aren't all down the story, but I'm saying that they are somewhat understandable and your arguments for the stupidity is because you simply don't know how much of characterisation is being shaped by Varric or not.

Varric was there, but how much of it was he there for or did he hear about second hand? He's got spies everywhere and he's pretty good at finding out things, so he could easily piece it together?

The point being, Hawke's actions clearly don't lend themselves to being called stupid, nor is if fair to judge the character when we're viewing them through the lens of a storyteller who frequently lies and at one point turns himself into Tony Montana before Cassandra called him out on it?!

But then, why play the game in the first place? You more or less know the ending before the game starts and when you can't say if anything you did really happened this way there is no reason to play the game.

[Sifr]

But you don't know the ending? You know that Hawke was involved in starting a world war, but you don't know how or why?

The whole point of playing is, like Cassandra, trying to figure out the truth for yourself from what Varric has told you?

Modifié par Sifr1449, 23 mai 2013 - 01:28 .

[Grog Muffins]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Shevy_001 wrote...

But why, in the person of Hawke, should I do this? I don't know that something like a "souljump" is even possible. He/she doesn't know the archdemon can do it and thus maybe Cory could do it too (which we as players don't know for sure, just assume)

I don't like Hawke too, but this point I have to give him.

Considering all the loony crap Hawke has seen throughout the years, seeing something 'soul jump' wouldn't be too far-fetched. Cory is also an incredibly powerful mage; one of the first Big Baddies who broke into the Golden Living Room. Hawke has seen mages force demons into templars; having a mage jump into the nearest body, especially one as powerful as Cory, wouldn't be a stretch. But the game doesn't even let you bloody test them like you did the Templar. :| You just frolic off.

Flemeth put a part of herself into an amulet in order to be smuggled into the Free Marches (and to get away if the Warden attacks and successfully "kills" her but that's something Hawke doesn't know, so we'll leave it out). I think it's safe to assume that Hawke knows some kind of soul transfer is possible. He/she might not know how one goes about doing it or if someone's soul can take over someone else's body but there's enough empirical evidence to make a little doubt bud take root in his/her mind.

Also, if you happen to have Anders and/or your Warden sibling with you, there's all the more reason to suspect something weird might be up. Granted, it might not be enough for you to murder-knife Larius and Janeka on the spot but it would have been nice to be a little skeptical of how they were acting after killing Corypheous.


The O signed letter, during the quest with Leandra's murder, though, that was really really bad. There's this guy, a coo-coo for coco puffs blood mage, who brutally slaughters Hawke's mother and he/she finds a letter from someone who knows exactly what this guy is doing and encourages him. After dealing with Quentin, Hawke should have investigated every possible corner of the Free Marches to find this person in order to make sure that nothing like that could ever happen to someone else again (and this is for a mentally healthy Hawke, let's not start thinking about a Hawke who gets obsessed with this in order to milk every last drop of revenge he/she can).

There are moments that make me think Hawke is hit with the stupidity brick because of hindsight and knowledge that I personally have and can't always keep out of my roleplaying but there still were times when I pulled my hair out because everything was there in Hawke's face and he/she just wouldn't see it or wouldn't act on it because reasons. (Petrice tells you herself there will be a next time, she will continue to incite the Qunari and Hawke just huffs like a little girl and leaves )

[ComfortablyNumb]

Shevy_001 wrote...

The moment you were told the murderer was looking for wealthy single women and your mom mentions she met someone which was even before the flowers, I knew how this will continue. Maybe that's just because I played many RPG's and that's how storytelling normally goes, but I thought it was obvious.

Really? Someone you know starts seeing somebody. And you instantly go "but there's a murderer in the city, they must be targeting my friend/mother/sister?" Sorry, I'm not buying that.
You can suspect. But only after the flowers are delivered it's made really clear. 

Shevy_001 wrote...
I acknowledge it's difficult to provide dialogue options or even pro-active actions without going the "it's obvious to the extent every player notices it and the bad ending never happens" route. But it was really annoying to get from one mess into another I as a player noticed way before. Hi @ Anders

Anders is difficult. It would made things easier, if Hawke knew how Andres was in Awakening. Then maybe s/he would be more vigilant. As it is, Hawke doesn't really have frame of reference here. And does Hawke enough knowledge to realize, for what the mysterious ingrediences that Anders needs may be used? If s/he is a mage, perhaps. Rogue or warrior? Not sure. I was genuienly shocked when I saw Chanry exploding for the first time (being spoilerphobe and all).

I will agree, that Isabela's behavior is the most suspicious. Still, not enough to be 100% sure. 

The thing is, most people probably don't remember what they actually  thought and suspected when playing for the first time. It's human nature to fill the gaps and once you know something, it's extremely difficult to remember how it was when you didn't know. Hence the feeling of something being "obvious" now.

Modifié par mrufka_z, 23 mai 2013 - 01:38 .

[Shevy]

Sifr1449 wrote...

But you don't know the ending? You know that Hawke was involved in starting a world war, but you don't know how or why?

The whole point of playing is, like Cassandra, trying to figure out the truth for yourself from what Varric has told you?

You know there is a war between mages and templars and that Hawke was involved in some way. But by your point of view of the story both highlighted parameters are up to imagination and thus you can't say if anything happened how the game presented it. For me, this would make the whole game pointless.

But back on topic:

I would love to have a more pro-active protagonist or if not possible that the writers will avoid quests which just leave you facepalming because by todays common sense it would have never happen.

[KDD-0063]

It's just the problem of the narrative.

I mean the entire Act 1. It basically tells us how Hawke, slowly, took an arrow in the knee.
Yeah, the history of someone taking an arrow in the knee is not exactly what we want to play.

[Nightdragon8]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Bioware badly implemented the whole 'time moving on thing'.

How about just killing Sister Petrice and her Templar friend while they are in the house? They are doing that on the sly; no one would know and it would be easy to dump the bodies, rather than going and complaing to the Chantry who would do the usual; nothing.

Flowers which show up and Hawke doesn't question it. You figure investigating a murder where you find a dismembered corpse would leave a few clues lingering.

Someone who knows a powerful blood mage? Who obviously had to be a powerful mage? Who aids a mage who someone kept on escaping templars? Oh come on.

Tallis is a Qunari; she's gonna give that crap to the Qunari. All those people are going to die because Hawke let Tallis merrily skip off without a fight.

Isabela certainly was, yet you can't call her out on it.

Addressed that already.

Lol, what about Blood Mage Hawkes? What about Reaver Hawkes? And you can use poison yourself, you know. It was still an incredibly stupid thing to say.

Hawke was still a fool. Repetedly.

The time thing. I agree, could have been better but meh, it was intresting enough. Would have loved to see the city change.

Cause killing a "sister" and a templar will warent an investigation, and last I saw, Hawk isn't a sociopath. Otherwise its just metagaming at that point.

The Flowers thing, honestly I don't see how Hawke could have known. Until the moment he finds out that the flowers where the calling card of the killer. Unless he was going to go all CSI: Dragon Age on her ass, I would have expected he would have let her do her own thing "She is an adult after all. and was more than likly happy for her to find someone she likes, after all the crap she has been though. I mean losing a kid to the darkspawn. Having your kids work for a year, just so you could get back into the city you where born in. Having to live with an A#$@$@#$ of a brother for over a year.

Also the Flowers thing could generaly be made out as normal behaviour even nowadays giving a woman a boque of flowers is seen as romantic. Why would it be odd that it should "set off warning flags" for a man to give a woman flowers??

Considering the amount of Mages in and around the city. It could have been anyone. Also we didn't find out he was a blookmage until the end. Don't get me wrong I didn't completely trust him, something just rubbed me the wrong way not really sure what to be honest. But to suppect him to be a Blood Mage while Meridith had her eyes on he mages whenever she suspected them of using it. Was a streach. Also I suspect that while he knew of Blood Magic I seriously doubt he practiced it before the end.

As for the Blood Mage Hawke, and the posion. Considering those where just class and combat mechanics that had zero plot relivence to it there really is no point in talking about it. I never used a Blood Mage or posions (posions mainly cause I didn't want to spend the time micromangaing putting them on is all)

Modifié par Nightdragon8, 23 mai 2013 - 01:51 .

[Shevy]

mrufka_z wrote...


Really? Someone you know starts seeing somebody. And you instantly go "but there's a murderer in the city, they must be targeting my friend/mother/sister?" Sorry, I'm not buying that.
You can suspect. But only after the flowers are delivered it's made really clear. 

As I mentioned, only from the information the game provided I can see that it's difficult to come to that conclusion, but I played many RPG's before and watched many crime series and my job is kind of a forensic nature so I was biased. For me it was clear the moment the "date" dialogue happened.

Also, the ingredients Anders used and Sebastian's "rumors" made the Anders thing pretty clear too.

[Sifr]

Shevy_001 wrote...

Sifr1449 wrote...

But you don't know the ending? You know that Hawke was involved in starting a world war, but you don't know how or why?

The whole point of playing is, like Cassandra, trying to figure out the truth for yourself from what Varric has told you?

You know there is a war between mages and templars and that Hawke was involved in some way. But by your point of view of the story both highlighted parameters are up to imagination and thus you can't say if anything happened how the game presented it. For me, this would make the whole game pointless.

No, what I'm saying is that both parameters are in doubt. They happened, that is clear, but is this exactly how it happened, which is left in doubt?! Why would this make the game pointless? In-game, I'm enjoying Hawke's story and struggle, while out-of-story, I'm left curious and wanting to know more?

But I agree, this is veering somewhat off-topic.

Hawke's passiveness and failure to be pro-active is a fault, but I don't think a damning one. They're a self-made millionaire who's already saved the city and averted disaster many times! At the end of the day, they simply want to be allowed to go down the pub, do odd-jobs for the city and relax.

This is why it makes sense in the third act why Hawke can be reluctant to become Viscount (and in the Templar ending, only agrees because they BEG them to), because the responsibility is simply too much for them.

Modifié par Sifr1449, 23 mai 2013 - 01:53 .

[KiwiQuiche]

Nightdragon8 wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Bioware badly implemented the whole 'time moving on thing'.

How about just killing Sister Petrice and her Templar friend while they are in the house? They are doing that on the sly; no one would know and it would be easy to dump the bodies, rather than going and complaing to the Chantry who would do the usual; nothing.

Flowers which show up and Hawke doesn't question it. You figure investigating a murder where you find a dismembered corpse would leave a few clues lingering.

Someone who knows a powerful blood mage? Who obviously had to be a powerful mage? Who aids a mage who someone kept on escaping templars? Oh come on.

Tallis is a Qunari; she's gonna give that crap to the Qunari. All those people are going to die because Hawke let Tallis merrily skip off without a fight.

Isabela certainly was, yet you can't call her out on it.

Addressed that already.

Lol, what about Blood Mage Hawkes? What about Reaver Hawkes? And you can use poison yourself, you know. It was still an incredibly stupid thing to say.

Hawke was still a fool. Repetedly.

The time thing. I agree, could have been better but meh, it was intresting enough. Would have loved to see the city change.

Cause killing a "sister" and a templar will warent an investigation, and last I saw, Hawk isn't a sociopath. Otherwise its just metagaming at that point.

The Flowers thing, honestly I don't see how Hawke could have known. Until the moment he finds out that the flowers where the calling card of the killer. Unless he was going to go all CSI: Dragon Age on her ass, I would have expected he would have let her do her own thing "She is an adult after all. and was more than likly happy for her to find someone she likes, after all the crap she has been though. I mean losing a kid to the darkspawn. Having your kids work for a year, just so you could get back into the city you where born in. Having to live with an A#$@$@#$ of a brother for over a year.

Also the Flowers thing could generaly be made out as normal behaviour even nowadays giving a woman a boque of flowers is seen as romantic. Why would it be odd that it should "set off warning flags" for a man to give a woman flowers??

Considering the amount of Mages in and around the city. It could have been anyone. Also we didn't find out he was a blookmage until the end. Don't get me wrong I didn't completely trust him, something just rubbed me the wrong way not really sure what to be honest. But to suppect him to be a Blood Mage while Meridith had her eyes on he mages whenever she suspected them of using it. Was a streach. Also I suspect that while he knew of Blood Magic I seriously doubt he practiced it before the end.

As for the Blood Mage Hawke, and the posion. Considering those where just class and combat mechanics that had zero plot relivence to it there really is no point in talking about it. I never used a Blood Mage or posions (posions mainly cause I didn't want to spend the time micromangaing putting them on is all)

Indeed. Hilarious how a year passed and everyone was still wearing the same clothes and standing in the same place.

Yeah, because the Grand Cleric really gave a crap when Petrice got sniped.  And we have already seen that the Templars/Guards in kirkwall are incredibly incompetent, so that wouldn't be a problem.

Considering the incredibly bad luck that punchs Hawke all the time? Yes, she should be suspicious about that, or at least ask Aveline to have guards keep an eye on Leandra. And I never said having Leandra date is a horrible, horrible thing and she deserves to die. I said having Leandra get wooed by someone, someone who is using signs a psycho used, is bad writing when Hawke does jack about it.

As someone else stated, Hawke should want to hunt down this O person; who helped that lunatic with his studies. And there are very few incredibly powerful and well-learned mages around and the most obvious one is Orsino. Not that hard to connect the dots.

Actually, Hawke sounds incredibly sociopathic if you play as a Sarcastic/Snarky Hawke it's kinda disturbing.

It was still such a stupid thing to say. Hawke says it regardless of personality.

[Bardox9]

I think Hawk was smarter than most give him/her credit for. In hindsight, sure there are a few bone head moves, but when placed in context even those are understandable. Hawks problem throughout is that there is rarely any solid evidence to work with while trying to keep a low profile. Without proof it's just his/her word against theirs and surely the people of kirkwall will take the word of vagrant over respected and established member of the community. How could that go wrong.....

The Warden had the luxury of walking into a place, do whatever was needed, and then leave. No long term consequences. Very nice. Can't just turn the city upside down then move on. Kirkwall is home. Hawk has to live there. He/She has to deal with these people on a daily basis.

[Cutlasskiwi]

Kind off hard to take OP seriously. 13 stupids, really?

Anyway, I disagree with most of what you wrote. While I agree that Hawke had some problems and things could have been handled better I had way more problems with the Warden. Or at least, creating a Warden that I didn't hate and could finish the game with. I loved Hawke right away.

I loved that Hawke wasn't the big hero that ended up saving the world. Hawke is the only protagonist that I have played that utterly failed their goals. He was just a guy that ended up in the wrong place at the wrong time. He tried his best to maintain status quo but everything fell apart right infront of him, even though he tried his best to maintain the situation when tension rose. But sometimes things are bigger than the normal protagonist. There was nothing he could do. And after the "big thing" happened in act 3 he had to make a very tough call in a situation that already was horrible and had spun out of control. The plot utterly broke him down, devastated him. It would have been very interesting to be able to pick him back up in an expansion and see the effects it all had on him. I can't think of a protagonist that I've had such a journey with. I enjoyed every minute of it.

So no, I don't agree that Hawke is stupid.

Modifié par Cutlasskiwi, 23 mai 2013 - 02:19 .

[KiwiQuiche]

Cutlasskiwi wrote...

Kind off hard to take OP seriously. 13 stupids, really?

Anyway, I disagree with most of what you wrote. While I agree that Hawke had some problems and things could have been handled better I had way more problems with the Warden. Or at least, creating a Warden that I didn't hate and could finish the game with. I loved Hawke right away.

I loved that Hawke wasn't the big hero that ended up saving the world. Hawke is the only protagonist that I have played that utterly failed their goals. He was just a guy that ended up in the wrong place at the wrong time. He tried his best to maintain status quo but everything fell apart right infront of him, even though he tried his best to maintain the situation when tension rose. But sometimes things are bigger than the normal protagonist. There was nothing he could do. And after the "big thing" happened in act 3 he had to make a very tough call in a situation that already was horrible and had spun out of control. The plot utterly broke him down, devastated him. It would have been very interesting to be able to pick him back up in an expansion and see the effects it all had on him. I can't think of a protagonist that I've had such a journey with. I enjoyed every minute of it.

So no, I don't agree that Hawke is stupid.

Hey, at least I rotated it with dumb and moron.

I don't share your opinion; I have no interest in playing a failure of a hero. It just makes the rest of the game utterly worthless since the 'hero' fails in everything.