284 réponses à ce sujet

[franciscoamell]

Filament wrote...

^Very awkward question out of context, lol.

In context, Alain heavily implies being raped by Kerras regularly. (or that evil sideburns templar, whatever his name was)

Lol, just noticed how weird my question was now. XD

[In Exile]

LobselVith8 wrote...
Hawke has shown his prowess in combat. Fighting two templars to rescue his sister from being tortured, raped, or made tranquil would be worth the effort.

Bethany - for whatever stupid reason - actually wants to go to the Circle at that point. Bioware, I suppose, didn't portray that well, but even if Hawke did shove a dagger in Cullen's throat, Bethany wouldn't have run away. She clearly wanted to cosign herself to the Circle so that her family could set up roots in Kirkwall. 

[TK514]

LobselVith8 wrote...

TK514 wrote...

I never understood the "Hawke does nothing when the Templers come for Bethany" argument.  

While I never understood Hawke doing nothing if his sister is being taken to a place where he knows mages are being made tranquil illegally.

TK514 wrote...

What do you honestly expect Hawke to be able to do, there? Start an armed conflict that will get Bethany killed almost immediately, as well as endangering Leandra who is standing about five feet away?  

Hawke has shown his prowess in combat. Fighting two templars to rescue his sister from being tortured, raped, or made tranquil would be worth the effort.

TK514 wrote...

Bethany telling Hawke to stand down makes her the smartest Amell in the room at that particular moment.

Hawke doing nothing was the usual course for Dragon Age II. We even received two DLCs where Hawke continued to do nothing. 

TK514 wrote...

The only positive outcome to Bethany letting Hawke start a fight in that room is leaving Gamlen with three less mouths to feed.

You're forgetting about two dead templars.

Not buying it.  I don't care how good you think Hawke is, there's no way that they, exhausted after a week fighting their way out of the deep roads with no provisions, would be able to take out two highly trained, well rested, well equipped and on their guard Templars before they gutted Bethany, at the very least.  And that's assuming that Liandra didn't throw herself in the way and get stabbed as well.

When getting your sister killed is the best outcome you can hope for from a fight, then fighting probably isn't the solution.

[EpicBoot2daFace]

Hawke really was one of the worst characters I've ever had the opportunity to play as.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Templars need to be great warriors in order to fight abominations and demons.

[LobselVith8]

TK514 wrote...

Not buying it.  I don't care how good you think Hawke is, there's no way that they, exhausted after a week fighting their way out of the deep roads with no provisions, would be able to take out two highly trained, well rested, well equipped and on their guard Templars before they gutted Bethany, at the very least.

There's "no way"? Following that line of logic, Hawke shouldn't have been made to make it to Kirkwall, but he did - despite all the dangers that existed between the entrance to the Deep Roads and the city-state. Your scenario of inevitable doom also isn't supported by the storyline, where Hawke manages to find a way when he's actually fighting his foes. Fighting Qunari after Qunari didn't end in defeat when he had to take on the Arishok on his own, despite all the energy he put into fighting against greater numbers while the Arishok had a small army following his every command. Battling the darkspawn and the Profane didn't end in defeat when he finally faced the Profane Abomination or the Ancient Rockwraith.

The idea that Hawke wouldn't try to stop two templars - particularly two men who are endangering his sister's humanity and safety by taking her to the Circle of Kirkwall - is something that I have a serious problem with.

TK514 wrote...

And that's assuming that Liandra didn't throw herself in the way and get stabbed as well.

Is this supposed to convince me that doing nothing was right - assuming the worst? We already know rogue Hawke can toss a dagger into a man's neck, and templars are specifically trained against mages. Why not do everything he can to protect his sister when her humanity is on the line? I'll never understand the people who think that doing nothing is best.

TK514 wrote...

When getting your sister killed is the best outcome you can hope for from a fight, then fighting probably isn't the solution. 

Protecting Bethany from a Circle of Magi where we hear about how mages are beaten for talking to civilians, and where we know some corrupt templars are making mages tranquil illegally, is the best outcome.

[Boycott Bioware]

lists of Hawke stupidity

i. going to Kirkwal following mom suggestion as an apostate and/or having an apostate sister

ii. persist on entering Kirkwal after knowing Amell family is not noble anymore, meaning title cannot give protection anymore

iii. willingly working for a year to pay a debt for entering Kirkwal

iv. willingly do all the leg work to sponsor a very dangerous expedition that chances they are all get tainted, they are not Grey Wardens. It is better if Hawke find money and start own business (establish own mercenary band or something)

v. as the main sponsor, Hawke do the leg work during the expedition

vi. agreeing to smuggle Ketojan without suspecting Chantry scheme by Sister Petrice, common there's a sister there, a Templar and Qunari Mage...Arvaraad is right saying "you talk as if ignorant is your nature"

vii. keep on helping Isabella without knowing the whole story

viii. as a Mage, keep on helping Fenris and receive insults from Fenris

ix. being his/her friends stepping stone to achieve their goals

x. never bother to force city guard and Templars to investigate his/her mom murder case

xi. searching for Sar Qamek thief while it is Qunari mess, and then receive bashing by the Arishok

xii. as a Mage never suspect Anders is up to no good, that guy is acting weirdly,talking about "self exorcism" using sella petrae and drake stone then sneaking in the Chantry.....what a Mage you are Hawke?

[chrstnmonks]

At the beginning of act 3 you have the choice of supporting either Meredith or Orsino or neither. Depending on that choice certain quest are made avilable. The Champion seems more like a honorary title to me than a political one so there is really not much you can do about Meredith directly.

[IanPolaris]

chrstnmonks wrote...

At the beginning of act 3 you have the choice of supporting either Meredith or Orsino or neither. Depending on that choice certain quest are made avilable. The Champion seems more like a honorary title to me than a political one so there is really not much you can do about Meredith directly.

So you aren't the second most powerful person in Kirkwall then?  Look,if the game had said that Hawke had tried and failed during those three years to get the Viscount replaced, that would be one thing, but from the looks of it, Hawke didn't even TRY to stop Meredith from taking over the duties of Viscount.

-Polaris

[KiwiQuiche]

franciscoamell wrote...

Why do you use a picture of Hawke as your avatar if you find her a stupid character??

'cause I can.

[chrstnmonks]

IanPolaris wrote...

chrstnmonks wrote...

At the beginning of act 3 you have the choice of supporting either Meredith or Orsino or neither. Depending on that choice certain quest are made avilable. The Champion seems more like a honorary title to me than a political one so there is really not much you can do about Meredith directly.

So you aren't the second most powerful person in Kirkwall then?  Look,if the game had said that Hawke had tried and failed during those three years to get the Viscount replaced, that would be one thing, but from the looks of it, Hawke didn't even TRY to stop Meredith from taking over the duties of Viscount.

-Polaris

What exactly where you supposed to do? Forciablely remove her ? Besides, i would think that would be more of the Grand Cleric job than Hawke. 

[Ryzaki]

Wulfram wrote...

Hawke can take Anders to the Gallows and tell the Templars "Hey, this mage is plotting against the Chantry."

It's not really Hawke's fault if the Templar response is "eh, whatever", is it?

Yeah my poor templar specced Hawke facepalmed so hard right there. I just *sigh* there has to be something in the water.

Sifr1449 wrote...

Zarathiel wrote...

Yeah, because aside from the Dark Ritual, you literally only listed the different companions you could have join.

Because
I was pointing out that the Wardens reasons for accepting companions
weren't particularly well thought out beyond the fact they were
desperate!

Whilst optional, the reason I didn't list all the
other stupid things you could have done, is because the fact remains
that the supposedly correct way of completing the game, still has you do
rather foolish things?

Sten? Body against the darkspawn.

Morrigan? Need a mage.

Not touching Zevran I slit his throat.

Leliana? She offers her help. She's a skilled fighter and...yeah she can be a "because you're desperate" recruitment. That sometimes is a perfectly reasonable excuse. 

Dog? A mabari is valuable.

Wynne? More mages. And she's a healer.

Oghren? He's forced. That said just tell him to GTFO.

The closest to a "stupid" choice the warden is ever always forced to do is going after the ashes (It's just a witchhunt).

Modifié par Ryzaki, 24 mai 2013 - 02:55 .

[IanPolaris]

chrstnmonks wrote...
What exactly where you supposed to do? Forciablely remove her ? Besides, i would think that would be more of the Grand Cleric job than Hawke. 

For starters, right after the Arishok is defeated and Hawke proclaimed champion, Hawke could have petitioned the nobility to elect him (or her) Viscount.  MAKE Meredith come out in the open and declare that he's not worthy right after naming him (or her) Kirkwall's greatest champion.....

That would at least be something (even if it failed).

-Polaris

[Jedi Master of Orion]

If Hawke is the second most powerful person in Kirkwall, then it stands to reason he can't stop the most powerful person from doing what she wants. Varic never mentions just how influential Hawke is. Just because the Champion is more powerful than anyone except Meredith doesn't mean he has any power over her. Besides Varic doesn't mention what the Champion did in the three years after defeating the Arishok anyway.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 24 mai 2013 - 03:09 .

[TK514]

LobselVith8 wrote...

There's "no way"? Following that line of logic, Hawke shouldn't have been made to make it to Kirkwall, but he did - despite all the dangers that existed between the entrance to the Deep Roads and the city-state. Your scenario of inevitable doom also isn't supported by the storyline, where Hawke manages to find a way when he's actually fighting his foes. Fighting Qunari after Qunari didn't end in defeat when he had to take on the Arishok on his own, despite all the energy he put into fighting against greater numbers while the Arishok had a small army following his every command. Battling the darkspawn and the Profane didn't end in defeat when he finally faced the Profane Abomination or the Ancient Rockwraith.

Well, if you're going to metagame, then we should have hit start and gotten an 'I WIN' screen because it is impossible for Hawke to lose any of the fights he's forced into.

And since you want to metagame, clearly Bethany's choice was the right one.  She prevents her family from having to flee the city and keep running from the authorities and suffers no negative repercussions for doing so.  She is not abused, raped, tortured or made tranquil.  She gets a home among her fellow mages and the personal attention of the First Enchanter.  She gets to write to her family, uncensored, and even see them from time to time.  She even claims it's better than being on the run.  Such a terrible life.

[Plaintiff]

IanPolaris wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

No. I had my fill of Mass Effect 3 every single adventure story ever.

-Polaris

Wrong Plaintiff and it's not cool or kosher to alter other people's posts without consent.  Not every single adventure is that cliched or has those precise elements.

-Polaris

Your post isn't altered at all. I was expressing my own opinion, and there's no possible way anyone could mistake it for yours.

So calm down.

[Solmanian]

The PC has to be stupid. Otherwise "captain exposition" will be an NPC that everyone despise witha vengence.

[Scarlet Rabbi]

Good points, Op.

The Tallis one is the one that infuriated me the most. She is a (lousy) liar, murderer, cheat, theif and on top of all that she wants nothing more than for a group of holier-than-thou, horned savages to look upon her with approval. After all she does to Hawke you don't even have the option to cuss her out, let alone physically harm her.

"Because....I've got your nose!" God, what I wouldn't give to be able to engulf Tallis in a Crushing Prison spell after that line.

The writing in this area definitely needs improvement. Maybe on your first playthrough you can ignore/be oblivious to this kind of thing, but for those of us who enjoy thorough, multiple playthroughs, these type of situations only serve to damage the immersion of the experience.

Modifié par Scarlet Rabbi, 24 mai 2013 - 05:45 .

[I SOLD MY SOUL TO BIOWARE]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

I like to think of my Hawke as a lazy asshole who just couldn't be bothered to do anything unless there was money involved rather than an actual idiot.

Pretty much.

I like to imagine he wasn't dumb, just didn't care about seeming smart. 

[Scarlet Rabbi]

StreetMagic wrote...

i agree with most of that, but I don't see her as a murderer per se. Not a very ruthless one at least. She's conflicted, wants people to back down instead.

This is true, but a murderer who regrets murdering someone or who tries to avoid murdering someone (yet still does), is, at the end of the day, nothing more than a murderer. Regrets or peaceful approaches do nothing to change this, just ask the previously warm body Tallis just turned into a corpse.

I don't believe Tallis to be ruthless though, we've common ground there.

[UnderlAlDyingSun]

OP I think you fell on your face