284 réponses à ce sujet

[Hazegurl]

Qistina wrote...
Hawke as a MAGE going to the Fade, fighting Blood Mages, handling red lyrium craziness of Bartrand, seeing abominations everywhere..don't tell me Hawke is so dumb don't know about alchemy and spirit possession is a complete two unrelated thing. The main problem is the way the game handling the scene, Anders is a Mage want to fool Hawke the famous Mage in history about spirit possession? And then Hawke is so dumb believing him? Damn, Hawke already killing the possessed Keeper and many more possessed Blood mages because that is the only way and now Anders saying it can be just "boom!" and it's gone, no need ritual, sacrificing but need to sneak into the Chantry

Amen on everything. I caught on right away that Anders was lying to me so why not my mage Hawke? He had Malcolm Hawke, his father, as his teacher. I'm sure daddy covered spirit possession. A mage Hawke should have known that Anders was blowing smoke and that death was the only way out of being poessed. That is why my Hawke ended up arguing with Anders when he refused to reveal why he needed entry into the Chantry and I turned him down. But still, my mage should have been able to spot his lie much sooner than that, like right when he was telling him about gathering the ingredients and why he needed them.

[TEWR]

Sutamina wrote...

How would you feel if its explained that Corypheus had a subtle effect on a number of people in Kirkwall that prevented them from exercising common sense and pro-active behavior.
Aside from the stronger affect Corypheus had on mages and tainted beings nearby.
Please do poke holes in this.
Just floating this idea to see what comes of it.

Except numerous sources attest to the fact that Corypheus can only affect tainted beings, something we see in game (Larius, Janeka, codexes where a Warden says that he's been planted thoughts by Corypheus). If he could affect non-tainted people, then he would've made sure the non-tainted people weren't resealing him. 

Even if we were to assume Malcolm Hawke was so badass to resist such effects, we cannot say the same for every person who came before him in the past thousand or so years.

[garrusfan1]

uh hawk wasn't stupid he didn't know all the stuff we did

[The_FenixV]

Hazegurl wrote...

Qistina wrote...
Hawke as a MAGE going to the Fade, fighting Blood Mages, handling red lyrium craziness of Bartrand, seeing abominations everywhere..don't tell me Hawke is so dumb don't know about alchemy and spirit possession is a complete two unrelated thing. The main problem is the way the game handling the scene, Anders is a Mage want to fool Hawke the famous Mage in history about spirit possession? And then Hawke is so dumb believing him? Damn, Hawke already killing the possessed Keeper and many more possessed Blood mages because that is the only way and now Anders saying it can be just "boom!" and it's gone, no need ritual, sacrificing but need to sneak into the Chantry

Amen on everything. I caught on right away that Anders was lying to me so why not my mage Hawke? He had Malcolm Hawke, his father, as his teacher. I'm sure daddy covered spirit possession. A mage Hawke should have known that Anders was blowing smoke and that death was the only way out of being poessed. That is why my Hawke ended up arguing with Anders when he refused to reveal why he needed entry into the Chantry and I turned him down. But still, my mage should have been able to spot his lie much sooner than that, like right when he was telling him about gathering the ingredients and why he needed them.

I think his father would of avoided that since it would raise questions, his father was forced to use blood magic after all. 

[Amirit]

I suspect if there would not be a mage class in the game DA2 would look much more logical. And we all know why it ended up so unrealistically dumb for mage-Hawke. They had to cut half the content, turn NPC like Orcino in monsters (only to have a second boss) and so on. Pure time and resource limits.

This is the only problem. But since we have been told DA3 is in production for 3 years already and has another year ahead - there is a hope that new protagonist will get more freedom in area of guessing and confronting.

[UnderlAlDyingSun]

I'm sure a lot of people here are measurably more retarded than Hawke ever was.

Can this thread be locked down already? Guess the DA2 haters still have some sand down there.

[Sir George Parr]

The problem was never the protagonist but the story Bioware wanted to tell as the PC has no choices to make or has any influence over events, Hawke is just along for the ride . So the PC is handicapped from the start to the boring disappearance at the end of the game.

[IanPolaris]

XM-417 wrote...

The problem was never the protagonist but the story Bioware wanted to tell as the PC has no choices to make or has any influence over events, Hawke is just along for the ride . So the PC is handicapped from the start to the boring disappearance at the end of the game.

Very true.  Asunder should have been a game, and DA2:Kirkwall should have been the book.

-Polaris

[Sylvius the Mad]

In Exile wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

I want a PC who is exactly as smart or as stupid as I define him to be, and that should be able to change wildly from one playthrough to the next.

How do we get that?

I would say having the dialogue option to "reveal" what is supposedly the secret plot twist if you've investigated enough to uncover it (rather than dealing with iffy inferences from dialogue). This has the added bonus of tying it to exploration and investigation.

Good suggestion.

The only complaint I can imagine is that players might stumble across the option without realizing it themselves, but when you think about it deeply, this is the right outcome. The character has acquired the knowledge. It doesn't matter if the player only realizes it when the option pops up in dialogue. RPing, the player still has a choice whether to use it - the character just has had the experiences necessary to draw the inference, but without player input, the PC isn't drawing the inference.

This is exactly right.  For this reason, though, I'd also like to have the right option available even if the PC hasn't done the appropriate investigation.  Just as the ooption being available doesn't mean that the character knows to select it (the player can decide that), just because the character doesn't know what to say shouldn't prevent him from saying the right thing by accident.

It should be possible to say the right thing for the wrong reason, just like in real life.

[Hurbster]

iiReaperZz wrote...

I'm sure a lot of people here are measurably more retarded than Hawke ever was.

Can this thread be locked down already? Guess the DA2 haters still have some sand down there.

Insulting people and then calling for the thread to be locked because (gasp) some people have different opinions to you ? Naughty, naughty...

[ShadowLordXII]

I don't think that Hawke was necessarily stupid, there are things that he could've done to avoid the worst things in DAII.

But if Hawke manages to figure out and solve every problem, where's the dramatic tension?

Not defending DAII, but if you look at it in the context of being part of a trilogy (even though the DA series is supposed to eventually have more than 3 games, but I'm using trilogy for the sake of argument), then you could see why DAII had a lot of bad stuff happening regardless of Hawke's actions or knowledge.  DAII is the second installment and is therefore intended to be the darkest in the trilogy.

DA:O was pretty dark, but it had an underlying optimism within it's bleak tone.  The player was a beacon of hope for others to gather around and fight off the overwhelming darkness.  The Warden may die, but he'd die saving the world from an evil blight and people would be much better off because of this. Even better if the Warden lives! (Whether you slept with the hot witch or imported a "dead character" into Awakening)

DAII, things are more bleak and tense.  Hawke isn't a shining hero, he's just a talented refugee who was thrown into the middle of a worsening situation.  A situation that was so tense that anything he did would just add fuel to the coming fire, regardless of the intent in his actions. In sense, Hawke was his own worst enemy because everything he did only made life for himself and everyone around him worst.

When Hawke leads an expedition to better the livelihood of his family and reclaim their noble status, he succeeds. With the side-effect of loosing an unstable corrupting lyrium idol into the world where it would make an already paranoid knight templar worse and losing their remaining sibling to the calling of the Wardens, one of the two sides in the mage-templar war, or death itself.

When Hawke tries to ensure peace between Kirkwall and the Qunari, the stark differences between their cultures override any of Hawke's attempts.  Which leads to a bloody assault where Hawke will find his faith in a trusted companion heavily tested.

When Hawke defeats the Arishok and saves Kirkwall, he only left room for a worst threat to take the helm.
When Hawke attempts to lessen the tension between mages and templars, his influence inadvertedly causes Anders to force a conflict in a situation that he saw as having no compromise.  Forcing Hawke to choose between two equally flawed sides and becoming a rallying point in the opening stages of a continent shaking war.
Sounds good in writing, but as we all saw, the game wasn't perfect in telling it.  Hence the reason why Hawke and plenty of people who should've known better look dumb.

Why did Hawke stand there and watch his sibling get crushed by the ogre instead of helping them?

What did Hawke's surviving sibling do to make them catch the taint in the Deep Roads? Did they fall in darkspawn blood? The crew gets sprayed by darkspawn blood all the time and they're all fine. In fact, the only other time that someone got sick was when Isabela caught an STD from being the most diserable courtesan in Kirkwall.

Seeing as that he's killed at least two full platoons of trained and armored templars by then, why did Hawke let Cullen and two templars take away Bethany as though he couldn't stop them?

If Hawke was so worried about confronting/killing Sister Petrine, then why doesn't he bat an eyelash at slaughtering entire platoons of templars including lieutenants?

Considering everything that Hawke and crew had face up to that point, why doesn't Hawke take a third option and oppose both radical/blood mages and Meredith's templars? Are Meredith and Orsino tougher than a High Dragon or an ancient Tevinter Magister? How is an army of mages and/or templars any more dangerous than an army of qunari or an mountain range filled with dragons?

Add those to your list of dumb Hawke moments, but the intent of this game was to be a darker installment.  
Nothing is darker than a feeling of defeat or powerlessness, to know that your efforts are in vain. A pretty gutsy experiment that didn't pay off too well considering DAII's reception, but I think this intent would have worked brilliantly if those dumb Hawke moments had been cut down by at least half.

Modifié par ShadowLordXII, 25 mai 2013 - 01:56 .

[Boycott Bioware]

Dagr88 wrote...
Everyone who can gain something from you is trying to get it or already got it when they joined.

Wynne - you only get her if you saved the circle (her family), so she technically "gained" what she needed from Warden.

Wrong, we can save Wayne but not everyone. Just delay the fight with Uldred until First Enchanter become abomination. wayne still follow you even there is no Mages anymore, and you get Templar army. Gregoir will elect Wayne to become First Enchanter but she reject it, but you can force her to become First Enchanter if you don't want her to tag along with you...

I am sure not everyone know this...that is the beauty of DA:O

Zevran - uses you as a possible shield against Crows that might come after him, because he failed or until he can betray Warden (can happen).

He can escape the Crows without the Warden, he admit that. You can spare his life but don't want to bring him along. You never see him again if you do that.

Sten - saved his life. He can continue his personal quest with you.

He didn't ask to follow you, he even ask to leave him alone. He want to die. That is certainty. But you who insist on freeing him, so he just follow you and give you his service. Of course he can continue spying on Ferelden along the way, it is your fault, not him.

Oghren - Saved/killed his wife. Nothing to in Orzammar.

Saving or killing his wife is a part of a process to elect the king of Orzamar. You don't need him actually (not making him your party member by rejecting his offer). You will find his wife eventually, Oghren will be there.

Shale - Released her from paralysis. She has amnesia. Nothing better to do.

Anyone could release her from that status

They have no personal gain befriending you, it is up to you to shape the friendship, they are your friend...only Leliana, Alistair and Morrigan have some issue

Modifié par Qistina, 25 mai 2013 - 02:11 .

[Boycott Bioware]

Amen on everything. I caught on right away that Anders was lying to me so why not my mage Hawke? He had Malcolm Hawke, his father, as his teacher. I'm sure daddy covered spirit possession. A mage Hawke should have known that Anders was blowing smoke and that death was the only way out of being poessed. That is why my Hawke ended up arguing with Anders when he refused to reveal why he needed entry into the Chantry and I turned him down. But still, my mage should have been able to spot his lie much sooner than that, like right when he was telling him about gathering the ingredients and why he needed them.

Mage Hawke even not being in the Circle know Blood Magic. If we bring Hawke and Carver at Sundermount, Carver will freak out seeing Merill cutting her wrist, saying it is not normal. Hawke will explain "that's Blood Magic". Mage Hawke know the profane is a demon, "i know you are a demon, i can sense it" Hawke say to Profane.

The original story of Mage Hawke is going into the Fade in the beginning, but being cut off for some reason. So Hawke is not so stupid about Magic and Demons. It is just bad writing...Mage Hawke have a really bad writing in many parts.

Hawke cannot save mom, even Anders is there. Anders said nothing he can do about it. Anders also cannot save Bartrand, he can only make Bartrand sane for few minutes. In both cases, no chemistry involved. So logically, Anders can't save himself. Mage Hawke should know about it right away.

Secondly if there's really a way to exorcism without using magic, there will be no Mages problem in Thedas. Anders BS really not convincing. He talk about Tevinter Mages making experiment bla bla bla using sella petrae, if Tevinter Mages really can exorcise people using chemistry, there is no need for the Chantry and the Circle

That scene is actually for non-Mage Hawke, for Mage Hawke it just stupid. There should be different writing for Mage Hawke.

Modifié par Qistina, 25 mai 2013 - 02:33 .

[Hazegurl]

The_FenixV wrote...

Hazegurl wrote...

Qistina wrote...
Hawke as a MAGE going to the Fade, fighting Blood Mages, handling red lyrium craziness of Bartrand, seeing abominations everywhere..don't tell me Hawke is so dumb don't know about alchemy and spirit possession is a complete two unrelated thing. The main problem is the way the game handling the scene, Anders is a Mage want to fool Hawke the famous Mage in history about spirit possession? And then Hawke is so dumb believing him? Damn, Hawke already killing the possessed Keeper and many more possessed Blood mages because that is the only way and now Anders saying it can be just "boom!" and it's gone, no need ritual, sacrificing but need to sneak into the Chantry

Amen on everything. I caught on right away that Anders was lying to me so why not my mage Hawke? He had Malcolm Hawke, his father, as his teacher. I'm sure daddy covered spirit possession. A mage Hawke should have known that Anders was blowing smoke and that death was the only way out of being poessed. That is why my Hawke ended up arguing with Anders when he refused to reveal why he needed entry into the Chantry and I turned him down. But still, my mage should have been able to spot his lie much sooner than that, like right when he was telling him about gathering the ingredients and why he needed them.

I think his father would of avoided that since it would raise questions, his father was forced to use blood magic after all. 

Why would he avoid it? Every mage should know about the possiblity of demon possession since they deal with it daily. I can't see why Malcolm would not teach his mage children about possession during their training. That is just too implausible.

[Hazegurl]

Qistina wrote...

Amen on everything. I caught on right away that Anders was lying to me so why not my mage Hawke? He had Malcolm Hawke, his father, as his teacher. I'm sure daddy covered spirit possession. A mage Hawke should have known that Anders was blowing smoke and that death was the only way out of being poessed. That is why my Hawke ended up arguing with Anders when he refused to reveal why he needed entry into the Chantry and I turned him down. But still, my mage should have been able to spot his lie much sooner than that, like right when he was telling him about gathering the ingredients and why he needed them.

Mage Hawke even not being in the Circle know Blood Magic. If we bring Hawke and Carver at Sundermount, Carver will freak out seeing Merill cutting her wrist, saying it is not normal. Hawke will explain "that's Blood Magic". Mage Hawke know the profane is a demon, "i know you are a demon, i can sense it" Hawke say to Profane.

The original story of Mage Hawke is going into the Fade in the beginning, but being cut off for some reason. So Hawke is not so stupid about Magic and Demons. It is just bad writing...Mage Hawke have a really bad writing in many parts.

Hawke cannot save mom, even Anders is there. Anders said nothing he can do about it. Anders also cannot save Bartrand, he can only make Bartrand sane for few minutes. In both cases, no chemistry involved. So logically, Anders can't save himself. Mage Hawke should know about it right away.

Secondly if there's really a way to exorcism without using magic, there will be no Mages problem in Thedas. Anders BS really not convincing. He talk about Tevinter Mages making experiment bla bla bla using sella petrae, if Tevinter Mages really can exorcise people using chemistry, there is no need for the Chantry and the Circle

That scene is actually for non-Mage Hawke, for Mage Hawke it just stupid. There should be different writing for Mage Hawke.

True. I loved the parts where Mage Hawke actually gave some information on magic and so on but s/he should have known better with Anders, they just totally dumbed him/her down to go along with the Anders plot. I just roleplayed it as my mage Hawke knowing that Anders is full of it but thinks he is just going more on wishful thinking than anything else. But that scene is certainly more for the non mage Hawke.

[Maverick827]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

I'm not a big hater. True, it did fall on it's face

This is where I stopped reading.

[Urazz]

Hazegurl wrote...

True. I loved the parts where Mage Hawke actually gave some information on magic and so on but s/he should have known better with Anders, they just totally dumbed him/her down to go along with the Anders plot. I just roleplayed it as my mage Hawke knowing that Anders is full of it but thinks he is just going more on wishful thinking than anything else. But that scene is certainly more for the non mage Hawke.

Just because you are a mage doesn't mean that you are book smart.  Mages can learn how to use their powers without reading a ton of books like Circle Mages do.  Remember, Hawke and his siblings pretty much grew up in poverty and Malcom probably kept the books on magic to a minimum so they can be hidden in case the chantry decides to snoop around.  A lot of the stuff Mage Hawke is able to talk about is usually stuff he is able to sense or would be told by his father to help him protect himself.  We really don't see much from Mage Hawke really doing any kind of reading and research like a circle mage would.

As for Hawke's 'stupidity', I think a lot of it is forgivable.  You got to remember that this game takes place over several years so remember some details like the white lily killer is probably not going to be as obvious to Hawke like it would to us because it probably seems like one of many small jobs he does to make money and keep busy.

Modifié par Urazz, 25 mai 2013 - 04:05 .

[Nightdragon8]

Qistina wrote...

i suspect the time-line is when the refugees in Lothering is going to Denerim, or not so long, it is just Hawke and Carver arrived late from Ostagar. They can catch up with other refugees from Lothering. Hawke did say to Aveline about Wesley "his fellow left with the Chantry priests", meaning it is not too late since Hawke know the Templars of Lothering left with Chantry priests...they can go to Denerim or Red Cliff

???? Yea it was after the warden left Lothering and after the darkspawn attack. And consdering that they where so far south of Lothering they must live pretty far away from the town. Yes they coudl have followed everyone else to Denerim or Red Cliff, but they could have gone anywhere else in Theadias as well. BUT the reason they went to Kirkwall was because they had family there. So they could have a fresh start With family. Thats the reason they went there. Hawke wasn't too keen on the idea. Also the reason mother sudjested it was because they where a rich family and thus was going to be able to use that to hide behind.

Qistina wrote...
As a leader of the pack, bow to pressure show that Hawke is not a good leader. Hawke can use veto, if Hawke is a Mage there is a very good reason for not staying, in fact it is not Hawke sibling and mom who is in danger. Hawke can leave alone if they persist on staying. Sometimes our family just being...well...but we who become the decision maker and we must use the force no matter how many are against us. Will you let your family member or yourself in danger just because your mom and/or your brother/sister don't want to move?

Hawke : "there's a swarm of cannibals nearby, we must move!!Now!!!"
Mom : "uh uh..not going anywhere"
Brother : "we stay here, HERE!"

Leader of the pack? Sure he was the eldest son, but that doesn't mean he was going to be in charge. Thus was never the "leader" considering that in that family structure Mothers words where more important that Hawkes and teh fac that your sibling backs up your mother pretty much means your stuck.

Also your thinking that convo happened while they where still in Ferildian it wasn't. They had already crossed over the boat and gotten to Kirkwall by tha time that convo happened. So I don't know what your trying to say there.

Qistina wrote...
"Forced choice is not choice"- Ketojan

Your point? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_will

 I have google too. and I took a class in Philosophy We can agrue about 'Choice" till the cows come home.

Also the story was the Champion of Kirkwall NOT the loser of Free marsh.

Also if you have Skyrim, next time you play it, don't do anything but smith, pick feilds and run away from everything that can kill you. Lets see how fun the game is then.

Qistina wrote...
We do know how much Hawke get from the expedition, 6 gold coins, lol invest 50 (or 70) and get only 6 gold coins...

Anyway, being a mercenary doesn't mean doing crimes, Hawke can help put down cats on the trees, find lost items, Kirkwallers have a lot of forgetful peoples who always misplace their belongings, help finding lost corpses, establish a courier service, becomes underground healers like Anders, and many more...

Hawke really don't need to join the expedition just to escape Templars, Merill can do it without being a noble, and many Blood Mages hanging around in Kirkwall being invisible

Yea because he got the Estate back for free right?

your talking about "Helper" not mercenary, you don't ask a person who carries around a sword all the time to get a kitty out from a tree...

And why would they pay a human they can get an Elf to do the job for free??

Hawke wanted money not to just stay away from the Templars but to effectivly live job free for the rest of there lives.

Also Merill was able to stay hidden because of Varic paying off the guards.

Qistina wrote...
yes it is optional, but if you help them, the way story is being told, Hawke is a dumb, or we can say...naive...too naive...or simply stupid

Then don't help them??? You are free to do that,

Qistina wrote...
I mean everyone, not just Aveline, but everyone

i. Merill need Hawke to become mediator between her and the Keeper, she want to repair her stupid mirror
ii. Fenris want Hawke support facing Denarius, he can't face Denarius alone despite his boasting, if Hawke hand over him to Denarius, he just follow without a fight at all!
iii. Anders need Hawke in all his scheme against the Chantry
iv. Hawke is a trouble magnet, so Aveline use Hawke in troubles she can'r handle, most of Kirkwal major cases handled by Hawke. Aveline is just incompetence Guard Captain. Aveline need Hawke influence especially after Hawke becomes a noble. Aveline have no shy to ask Hawke become a messenger boy/girl in pursuing Donnic.
v. Isabella need hawke protection from all her enemies, especially the Qunari. Hawke provide a good distraction, a pawn in her game
vi. Varric need a partner, he want to become someone to rival his brother

??? So you never asked anyone for anything and it doesn't help you in any way shape or form?? Or am I missing something some secret point about asking for help??

Basicly what you are saying is that, Hawke should have not done anything to help his friends because it helped there friends and not Hawke Deriectly?? 

Well guess that settles it, no more helping my friends without them paying me money anymore....

Qistina wrote...
Finding the murderer do not solve the case. The case is not close. There are connections to be investigated. There are too many questionable issues like how Quentin can get pass the Templars all these time? It is a murder right under the City of Templars. Then the Mage named "O", we can link up all evidence about books orders from the Circle, DPuis documents, letters from Starkhaven, letters from Meredith...there's a CONSPIRACY

I hate to tell you but not everyone goes all CSI even nowadays you will be surprized how often things are left unfished in investigations. Hell just watch Nightline those are the one that are higher profile not to mention what goes on with less wealthy people.

Also the fact that Hawke was farly Traumatized by the event.

Qistina wrote...
They sent delegations to the Viscount, they also can hide pretty well in the Chantry, they can appear everywhere. They can find the Sar Qamek themselves. But Arishok use Hawke because Arishok can't calculate who or what reason the Sar Qamek being stolen. If everything goes wrong, it is Hawke to be blame, not him.

There where guards and by that time the Arishok respected Hawke, so really he was the best go between with a leadership that honestly was a joke. And honestly the leaders would probably have asked for Hawkes help anyway.

Also, they didn't attack the Qunari so why should they give 2 S@#$ about it.

Qistina wrote...
Hawke as a MAGE going to the Fade, fighting Blood Mages, handling red lyrium craziness of Bartrand, seeing abominations everywhere..don't tell me Hawke is so dumb don't know about alchemy and spirit possession is a complete two unrelated thing. The main problem is the way the game handling the scene, Anders is a Mage want to fool Hawke the famous Mage in history about spirit possession? And then Hawke is so dumb believing him? Damn, Hawke already killing the possessed Keeper and many more possessed Blood mages because that is the only way and now Anders saying it can be just "boom!" and it's gone, no need ritual, sacrificing but need to sneak into the Chantry

Your Assumeing what he "should know" Just because he may be a mage doesn't mean knows anything that a Circle Mage "Should know" Yes he knows about spirit possession. But that doesn't mean anyone knows EXACTLY how everything workds. If Knowledge worked that way, We would be in Space and flying aroud exploring the stars. I mean  I guess Issac Newton was the first astronaught because he learned about gravity. Right?

So what you are saying is that in reality, as soon as Hawke found out that Anders was possessed he should have Murder Knifed him right?

But please don't make the assumetion that because a person is X that means they know everything X should know.
It would be asking if a programmer to program in a program langue he doesn't know. Just because s/he knows C++ doesn't mean they know 4tran, assembly or anything else.

Also what does spirts have to do with Alchemey?? Plz explain the Link, I would very much like the enlighten is to the reason why Spirts or Demons has a deriect relation on how to mix potions and ingredients together.

Because IMO Alchemy is more akin to cooking food, than to spirts and demon possession..

Hell if the Warden in DA:O if was a mage while may have had alittle knowlege of Herbalisum may not have been a master of it, and not know everything about it. And yet he was a Circle mage, Rasied in the circle.

Modifié par Nightdragon8, 25 mai 2013 - 04:32 .

[CELL55]

IanPolaris wrote...

XM-417 wrote...

The problem was never the protagonist but the story Bioware wanted to tell as the PC has no choices to make or has any influence over events, Hawke is just along for the ride . So the PC is handicapped from the start to the boring disappearance at the end of the game.

Very true.  Asunder should have been a game, and DA2:Kirkwall should have been the book.

-Polaris

+1 to this. There was so much railroading DA2 shouldn't even have been a choose-your-own-adventure book. Just a plain, linear book.

Modifié par CELL55, 25 mai 2013 - 04:55 .

[UnderlAlDyingSun]

Hurbster wrote...

iiReaperZz wrote...

I'm sure a lot of people here are measurably more retarded than Hawke ever was.

Can this thread be locked down already? Guess the DA2 haters still have some sand down there.

Insulting people and then calling for the thread to be locked because (gasp) some people have different opinions to you ? Naughty, naughty...

I can honor a difference in opinion, I'm just personally oh so tired of the self generated poop being flung around here at this genre defining beauty. 

Best bromance ( Hawke/Varric ) of any game to date. Combine that with a hot sister who in all rights nearly broke down the moral fabric of society ( LI request, and yea I would've taken the option  ) and you have GOTY material

[KiwiQuiche]

iiReaperZz wrote...

I'm sure a lot of people here are measurably more retarded than Hawke ever was.

Can this thread be locked down already? Guess the DA2 haters still have some sand down there.

You obviously missed the part where I bluntly stated I wasn't a hater of DA2.

Reading comprehension, what is it.

[Plaintiff]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

iiReaperZz wrote...

I'm sure a lot of people here are measurably more retarded than Hawke ever was.

Can this thread be locked down already? Guess the DA2 haters still have some sand down there.

You obviously missed the part where I bluntly stated I wasn't a hater of DA2.

Reading comprehension, what is it.

You don't hate DA2, you just go on a lengthy rant about how the entire plot is terrible.

[KiwiQuiche]

Plaintiff wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

iiReaperZz wrote...

I'm sure a lot of people here are measurably more retarded than Hawke ever was.

Can this thread be locked down already? Guess the DA2 haters still have some sand down there.

You obviously missed the part where I bluntly stated I wasn't a hater of DA2.

Reading comprehension, what is it.

You don't hate DA2, you just go on a lengthy rant about how the entire plot is terrible.

You do realize you can like some parts of something while disliking other parts, right?

[Boycott Bioware]

???? Yea it was after the warden left Lothering and after the darkspawn attack. And consdering that they where so far south of Lothering they must live pretty far away from the town. Yes they coudl have followed everyone else to Denerim or Red Cliff, but they could have gone anywhere else in Theadias as well. BUT the reason they went to Kirkwall was because they had family there. So they could have a fresh start With family. Thats the reason they went there. Hawke wasn't too keen on the idea. Also the reason mother sudjested it was because they where a rich family and thus was going to be able to use that to hide behind.

There is no reason to go Kirkwall in immediately. Between Kirkwall and Denerim or Red Cliff, those two places are in Ferelden, nearer than Kirkwall. They could go to Kirkwall but not as soon as escape from Lothering. Everybody is going to Denerim because it is the capital. Loghain army is there, everybody know Loghain is recruiting to build new army, this is general knowledge for people in Lothering (you can ask them around in DA:O). So why the hell they want go to Kirwall at that moment?

If Hawke and Carver is from Ostagar, then they should know Arl Eamon army is not there, meaning they can assume going to Red Cliff is a good idea, they can join Arl Eamon army instead if they not become undead meal ofcourse, but if Red Cliff crisis is already solved by the Warden, then they could stay in Red Cliff for a while, or join the Warden army.

Leader of the pack? Sure he was the eldest son, but that doesn't mean he was going to be in charge. Thus was never the "leader" considering that in that family structure Mothers words where more important that Hawkes and teh fac that your sibling backs up your mother pretty much means your stuck.

Also your thinking that convo happened while they where still in Ferildian it wasn't. They had already crossed over the boat and gotten to Kirkwall by tha time that convo happened. So I don't know what your trying to say there.

They all agree Hawke lead the way, meaning Hawke is the leader. The decision to go south made by Hawke, the decision on accepting Flemeth help also on Hawke, all these show Hawke is the leader here. Even the Templar Wesley back down and let the apostate lead the way.

Hawke can force the family to leave Kirkwall right away, but the game is in Kirkwall, so they must go in Kirkwall...that is the weakness of given choices in this game. If the player is sure entering Kirkwall, there should be no argument options, the way they get into Kirkwall can be shown in a lot of ways (sneaking in, go through other way around, they land at the Gallow, they could swim or steal a boat or something going to lower city or City Port)