284 réponses à ce sujet

[Sith Grey Warden]

I think the problem was a wider issue of logic being thrown out the window whenever the plot demanded it. There's a limit to how far we can stretch our suspension of disbelief to allow for a good plot, especially when the illogical works against the player.

[Hazegurl]

Urazz wrote...

Hazegurl wrote...

True. I loved the parts where Mage Hawke actually gave some information on magic and so on but s/he should have known better with Anders, they just totally dumbed him/her down to go along with the Anders plot. I just roleplayed it as my mage Hawke knowing that Anders is full of it but thinks he is just going more on wishful thinking than anything else. But that scene is certainly more for the non mage Hawke.

Just because you are a mage doesn't mean that you are book smart.  Mages can learn how to use their powers without reading a ton of books like Circle Mages do.  Remember, Hawke and his siblings pretty much grew up in poverty and Malcom probably kept the books on magic to a minimum so they can be hidden in case the chantry decides to snoop around.  A lot of the stuff Mage Hawke is able to talk about is usually stuff he is able to sense or would be told by his father to help him protect himself.  We really don't see much from Mage Hawke really doing any kind of reading and research like a circle mage would.

As for Hawke's 'stupidity', I think a lot of it is forgivable.  You got to remember that this game takes place over several years so remember some details like the white lily killer is probably not going to be as obvious to Hawke like it would to us because it probably seems like one of many small jobs he does to make money and keep busy.

Book smarts have nothing to do with it. Malcolm would take mage Hawke and Bethany somewhere secret to train them. Mages are under constant threat of demonic possession. He would be a complete idiot to not inform his children of the dangers of that threat and the extreme consequences to allowing themselves to be possessed. Malcolm was no fool. I'm sure he did teach them this, but plot requires Hawke to be an idiot for Ander's betrayal to work.

Also, Hawke and his siblings are perfectly capable of reading and writing. We see this in the game. Plus Leandra was a noble, further proof that they are all literate.

[Boycott Bioware]

continue...(i accidentally hit "submit button")

Your point? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_will

I have google too. and I took a class in Philosophy We can agrue about 'Choice" till the cows come home.

Also the story was the Champion of Kirkwall NOT the loser of Free marsh.

Also if you have Skyrim, next time you play it, don't do anything but smith, pick feilds and run away from everything that can kill you. Lets see how fun the game is then.

I know what free will is, in anyway it doesn't prove your point at all. Hawke have no free will, Hawke is forced to follow other people decision.

And i don't find Skyrim is fun in anyways, that game is boring as hell

Then don't help them??? You are free to do that,

Then i will miss the game content

??? So you never asked anyone for anything and it doesn't help you in any way shape or form?? Or am I missing something some secret point about asking for help??

Basicly what you are saying is that, Hawke should have not done anything to help his friends because it helped there friends and not Hawke Deriectly??

Well guess that settles it, no more helping my friends without them paying me money anymore....

There's saying of the olds "Do good deeds but do not go too far, and never do evil". My brother like help his friends, now my brother is broke, his friends are not. His friends don't care for him, they only use him all these time.

We can help our friends but make sure we don't become the tool in their personal gain. Hawke doesn't need them anyways, they just hang out with Hawke with their own reason. Hawke become the tool for them. And they ****** on Hawke if Hawke don't share their view or belief and not supporting them and they betray Hawke for the same reason...that is what you call as friends?

I hate to tell you but not everyone goes all CSI even nowadays you will be surprized how often things are left unfished in investigations. Hell just watch Nightline those are the one that are higher profile not to mention what goes on with less wealthy people.

Also the fact that Hawke was farly Traumatized by the event.

Hawke is the richest Noble in Kirkwall (with 6 gold coins lol), even attracting the Viscount, and could replace the Viscount.

Trauma...? Hawke have seen so many things to get traumatized.

There where guards and by that time the Arishok respected Hawke, so really he was the best go between with a leadership that honestly was a joke. And honestly the leaders would probably have asked for Hawkes help anyway.

Also, they didn't attack the Qunari so why should they give 2 S@#$ about it.

many people assume the Arishok respect Hawke, but actually no, Arishok don't care about Hawke at all. He even admit it in dialogues. But the way the game presented it makes the player feel "being respected by Arishok", i give Bioware for that.

The Arishok is a Qun, as a Qun he only deal with certainty, meaning everything is in his calculations. What happen to Sar Qamek is beyond his calculation, he don't like that. So he USE Hawke to deal with it because Hawke is not a Qun (until Arishok manage to convert Hawke and the player not realizing it).

So if anything goes wrong regarding the Sar Qamek, the Arishok just wash his hands...like he said earlier, he guard the thing, the thing is stolen, his guards dead defending it, the Qunari cannot leave the compound. It is Hawke failure, not him. But Hawke manage to solve the problem and telling what happen, that ****** off Arishok because all that are beyond his calculations, he don't expect the Elves at all...

Your Assumeing what he "should know" Just because he may be a mage doesn't mean knows anything that a Circle Mage "Should know" Yes he knows about spirit possession. But that doesn't mean anyone knows EXACTLY how everything workds. If Knowledge worked that way, We would be in Space and flying aroud exploring the stars. I mean I guess Issac Newton was the first astronaught because he learned about gravity. Right?

Anders is not the only Mages in Kirkwall, Mage Hawke could ask any Mages in the Circle or Orsino or even Meredith about the thing if Hawke not sure about it.

So what you are saying is that in reality, as soon as Hawke found out that Anders was possessed he should have Murder Knifed him right?

What are you talking about? Hawke know Anders is possesed as soon in Act 1 after meet with Karl.

But please don't make the assumetion that because a person is X that means they know everything X should know.
It would be asking if a programmer to program in a program langue he doesn't know. Just because s/he knows C++ doesn't mean they know 4tran, assembly or anything else.

None of the forumites are real scientists, but they know when i am bull****ing in the other thread...and when i am not. We also know when someone is bul****ing the way they talk, their action, and everything.

And then experience, we know things thorough experiences. Hawke have a lot of experiences more than a Circle Mage have. In fact, Hawke is more reliable than a Circle Mage.

Also what does spirts have to do with Alchemey?? Plz explain the Link, I would very much like the enlighten is to the reason why Spirts or Demons has a deriect relation on how to mix potions and ingredients together.

Because IMO Alchemy is more akin to cooking food, than to spirts and demon possession..

Sorry, i am bad in English, but what the hell are you talking about?

Hell if the Warden in DA:O if was a mage while may have had alittle knowlege of Herbalisum may not have been a master of it, and not know everything about it. And yet he was a Circle mage, Rasied in the circle.

Your point is?

Morrigan and flemeth never go into the Circle, they know more

[Plaintiff]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

iiReaperZz wrote...

I'm sure a lot of people here are measurably more retarded than Hawke ever was.

Can this thread be locked down already? Guess the DA2 haters still have some sand down there.

You obviously missed the part where I bluntly stated I wasn't a hater of DA2.

Reading comprehension, what is it.

You don't hate DA2, you just go on a lengthy rant about how the entire plot is terrible.

You do realize you can like some parts of something while disliking other parts, right?

I realise that perfectly, but in your specific case I have to wonder what's left to like.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 25 mai 2013 - 06:59 .

[KiwiQuiche]

Plaintiff wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

iiReaperZz wrote...

I'm sure a lot of people here are measurably more retarded than Hawke ever was.

Can this thread be locked down already? Guess the DA2 haters still have some sand down there.

You obviously missed the part where I bluntly stated I wasn't a hater of DA2.

Reading comprehension, what is it.

You don't hate DA2, you just go on a lengthy rant about how the entire plot is terrible.

You do realize you can like some parts of something while disliking other parts, right?

I realise that perfectly, but in your specific case I have to wonder what's left to like.

Wonder all you like but don't make absolute assumptions about people when you do so.

[CrystaJ]

Everyone's a genre-savvy genius here, aren't they? I'd sure like you in my party.

I suspect, to the characters in the game, you'd probably appear insanely paranoid if you were allowed to apply your own knowledge gleaned from other RPGs. I mean, if you knifed someone for being an **** towards you, no matter how evil and nefarious they clearly are, you'd generally get arrested. And "he's clearly going to frame me later in the plotline" wouldn't fly in court.

And it doesn't always happen that way in real life, either. People do not always do exactly what you expect them to do, and people are aware of this, and don't generally make assumptions about a person's character so quickly unless they're an ****.

But the characters should know they're in an RPG, right?

No. That's dumb.

Ol' Sister Petrice! How's the Chantry doing? I'm really glad you set me up to try and flame in a war. Cool, I can give you a few threats, but you go ahead and waltz out that door; not like you'll start even more sh!t down the line or anything.

"I sense she is an evil zealot, therefore I'm totally justified in killing her minutes after we meet because she will inevitably hatch a nefarious scheme in the future and cause us grief. I mean, she has already TRIED."

Dragon Age: murder is okay because you're the good guy.

Hello mum, how's it hanging? Someone gave you white lilies? The same kind a serial killer has be giving to single women? You want to start dating? Okay, have fun with that!

"Mom's dating! It has to be that guy we heard about three years prior! I mean that plot thread won't just die without closure... and who the **** would wanna go after my buxom old lady other than a sociopath?"

"I totally didn't pick up on the lily thing in my auto-dialogue, by the way. Went right over my head."

A strange note where I found the guy who made mum a zombie thing. Who is this mysterious O person? Hmph, well good thing I don't know any powerful mages or First Enchanters who's name start with O or anything.

"Yeah, it can't be some other powerful mage with an O name. That wouldn't make any sense in this game. No other alternatives have even been introduced, so we can assume they do not exist."

A Qunari spy with loads of really secret information which could cripple Qunari actions in Thedas? Oh I'll just sit here while she runs way, lol my bad.

"... it can harm innocent people? Pfft. No skin off MY back."

Hey Isabela, isn't it weird how your ship wreak and the Qunari's are at the same time?

"I mean two ships wrecking at the same time during a violent storm is too far-fetched to be a mere coincidence... at least in a video game!"

In the same storm?

"I mean, really! Never happened before!"

and you are looking for something really valuable that you stole and you won't go into the Qunari compound.

"I mean the qunari are friendly people! Who DOESN'T wanna party with them? It's really difficult to get on their bad side!"

"And you two have to be looking for the same thing. I mean, you couldn't have lost TWO treasures on TWO different ships in the SAME violent storm (we have already established that storms do not wreck more than one ship at the same time)! That's crazy!"

Who cares, I won't confront you or anything despite you acting really suspicious.

"Yeah, 'acting suspicious' is a perfectly legit reason for me to confront you about it, and you totally are going to tell me what the problem is once I do this. Or at least you should, anyway. Because I'm awesome and don't respect the privacy of my peers; I'm the ****ing hero, after all. You shouldn't even feel entitled to it. And if you don't tell me, I'll just stab you in the face before you can inevitably betray me, like I did with Petrice back there."

Anders, you are acting crazier than usual.

"These are totally ingredients for a bomb... I know that because... I'M THE HERO~! And I like chemistry."

Why are you hiding explosives all over the Chantry?

"What? You thought I was actually going to keep my end of the bargain and distract the Grand Cleric? And yeah, I KNOW they're bombs because I'm aware of what the chemicals do thanks to my middle school chemistry class."

(Someone already mentioned you can go to Cullen and blatantly rat on Anders, but Cullen is like "yeah we know he's a nut job." And as far as I know, you don't actually have to help him at all. My main Hawke didn't.)

As a sidenote, my main Hawke didn't go into the Chantry with Anders. It wasn't because he knew what those ingredients would do; I can't see him being knowledgeable about Tevinter rituals even as a mage (hence why I think he wouldn't outright reject partaking in a quest that might as well be named "Bomb Making 101" -- because he didn't know the end result would be a bomb in the first place) ... it was because Anders kept hinting he was doing something drastic for the good of all mages everywhere and wouldn't tell him a damn thing about it. It becomes a matter of trust rather than intellect, in my opinion.

I don't enjoy predictable plots, but I haven't seen a movie that completely blew my mind. 99.9% of the time I can see what's going to happen later on due to heavy foreshadowing and knowing it's a bloody movie, but I still watch it, because I can believe the characters in those situations -- if they were real people -- would indeed behave that way, not being aware their destinies were already written for the sake of tension and plot development.

I mean, if you're locked in a house with a psychopath and a group of friends, you won't be thinking that the black guy is gonna be killed first... just like how Hawke isn't going to jump to the conclusion that Isabela must be after the same thing the Qunari are after, especially since you don't even KNOW the reason why the Qunari are sticking around until you interact with the Arishok numerous times. In real life, it could really just be a coincidence.

But no, it's a game, and you know better. And you expect the characters to have the same insight. But they don't, and they shouldn't, and thankfully the writers at Bioware know this in spite of some of their blatant laziness (Meredith may be willing to kill every other mage in Kirkwall, but not you, Mr. Hero!)

tl;dr version: these are dumb complaints and you should feel bad about making them and I'm awesome

[TEWR]

Filament wrote...

CrystaJ wrote...

Ol' Sister Petrice! How's the Chantry doing? I'm really glad you set me up to try and flame in a war. Cool, I can give you a few threats, but you go ahead and waltz out that door; not like you'll start even more sh!t down the line or anything.

"I sense she is an evil zealot, therefore I'm totally justified in killing her minutes after we meet because she will inevitably hatch a nefarious scheme in the future and cause us grief. I mean, she has already TRIED."

Dragon Age: murder is okay because you're the good guy.

She pretty much admitted her plan was to get you murdered in the first act. Some of my characters would have sought to provide a proportional response then and there, were they able.

I would've been personally happy had the game provided a decent reason for 1) why I have to do the quest (if you've garnered enough coin and don't trust her, then the quest isn't necessary other then to advance the story) and 2) why killing her isn't an option.

I don't need to be able to do what I want to do immediately, but I should be able to not only express my desire to do so but also be given a valid reason why it's not possible.

I mean two ships wrecking at the same time during a violent storm is too far-fetched to be a mere coincidence... at least in a video game!"

She flat out says when talking to Javaris initially that she "felt the Qunari powder's sting", and tends to contradict herself on the nature of the object she's after, how she lost it, and so on in dialogue with the companions. Throw in the reports of the Qunari ship doing battle with another ship (from the bartender) and the whole storm fiasco, and Hawke is forced to be oblivious for no reason other then "YOU MUST BE SURPRISED BY THIS TOTALLY OBVIOUS THING".

"Mom's dating! It has to be that guy we heard about three years prior! I mean that plot thread won't just die without closure... and who the **** would wanna go after my buxom old lady other than a sociopath?"

"I totally didn't pick up on the lily thing in my auto-dialogue, by the way. Went right over my head."

To be precise, lilies aren't noticed until the night she went missing.

I just would've been happy with a simple "Hey mom? There's a serial killer out there targeting influential single women, so be careful." after the whole Gascard quest.

It would at least show Hawke's efforts.

EDIT: Well... that's not strictly accurate. I take issue with a fair deal more about the whole Quentin arc then that, but that's dealing with other stuff not related to Leandra's fate. I have no issue with her dying for plot purposes, just that it wasn't done as well as it could be.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 25 mai 2013 - 09:37 .

[CrystaJ]

Perhaps. If she were to escape, which she seems to like doing and may be feasible with Ser Varnell around, you'd also be in deep trouble with the law in a city which doesn't treat Ferelden refugees kindly. Whether or not it's actually a smart thing to do is debateable; it's dependent on your success.

Then the Varnell gangbang with his zealot peasants would happen a dozen levels before you are ready

[CrystaJ]

She flat out says when talking to Javaris initially that she "felt the Qunari powder's sting"

I think that requires her to actually be in your party when that happens, which would explain why I never got that line.

tends to contradict herself on the nature of the object she's after

Uh, she reveals it was a book much later. Before that she's just elusive about it, and not in a 'OMG SHE'S TOTALLY HIDING ****' sort of way.

I don't remember companion dialogue containing these contradictions prior to the big reveal.

Throw in the reports of the Qunari ship doing battle with another ship (from the bartender) and the whole storm fiasco

Requires you to actually talk to the bartender, and which rumor is told is random. I never got this either.

Hawke is forced to be oblivious for no reason other then "YOU MUST BE SURPRISED BY THIS TOTALLY OBVIOUS THING".

It might have been nice if they put in a variable determining whether or not your Hawke actually heard all this evidence, but I chalk that up to laziness, hence why it seems all this intel you happen across is conditional (Isabela has to be in your party, you need to keep harrassing the bartender, etc.)

I just would've been happy with a simple "Hey mom? There's a serial killer out there targeting influential single women, so be careful." after the whole Gascard quest.

Dependent on how you play it, Gascard is killed after Emeric is jumped and presumed to have been the killer. Unless I remember something incorrectly. The guard also didn't seem to take Emeric's suspicions seriously.

Gascard doesn't die if you don't incriminate him, and you may have cause to warn mom about it then... though I do not recall him specifically targeting 'influential' women, just the ones who happened to have the same features as his wife. I don't see any reason for Hawke to be absolutely convinced his mother is going to be targeted any more than the next, therefore shouldn't be surprised when she is.

[Sir George Parr]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

EDIT: Well... that's not strictly accurate. I take issue with a fair deal more about the whole Quentin arc then that, but that's dealing with other stuff not related to Leandra's fate. I have no issue with her dying for plot purposes, just that it wasn't done as well as it could be.

I did have a problem with Leandra dying as i felt it left no reason for Hawke to stay in Kirkwall after that point, it was just another event that the PC has no choice in.
But the option to have warned Leandra would have helped, at least you would have felt like you'd tried. It may have being better if Gamlen and Charade had being brought in to fill the void left by other characters.

[Sir George Parr]

*double post*

Modifié par XM-417, 25 mai 2013 - 05:28 .

[IanPolaris]

Filament wrote...

CrystaJ wrote...

Ol' Sister Petrice! How's the Chantry doing? I'm really glad you set me up to try and flame in a war. Cool, I can give you a few threats, but you go ahead and waltz out that door; not like you'll start even more sh!t down the line or anything.

"I sense she is an evil zealot, therefore I'm totally justified in killing her minutes after we meet because she will inevitably hatch a nefarious scheme in the future and cause us grief. I mean, she has already TRIED."

Dragon Age: murder is okay because you're the good guy.

She pretty much admitted her plan was to get you murdered in the first act. Some of my characters would have sought to provide a proportional response then and there, were they able.

Very true, and given that she was explicitly acting without the knowledge and consent of the Chantry, Hawke and Co should have felt free to murder-knife both her and her bodyguard right then and there.  The notion that a sister of the Chantry and her bodyguard was found dead in Lowtown would not exactly shock anyone nor merit much of an investigation tbh.

-Polaris

[CrystaJ]

Don't be silly; murderknives only work on useless NPCs, not the plot-integral ones!

Modifié par CrystaJ, 25 mai 2013 - 10:07 .

[IanPolaris]

CrystaJ wrote...

Don't be silly; murderknives only work on useless NPCs, not the plot-integral ones!

Then we as the player needed to be told:

1.  Why doing her mission in lowtown was actually essential.  As things are Hawke could easily have 50 sovereigns before this mission even comes up.

2.  We need to be given a good reason why Hawke and Co can't simply kill Sister Petrice and Varnell when it's very obvious they tried to murder Hawke and Co.  Given that Petrice is acting completely on her own, there is no good reason why a particularly vengeful Hawke wouldn't just kill her then and there.

-Polaris

[Knight of Dane]

IanPolaris wrote...

CrystaJ wrote...

Don't be silly; murderknives only work on useless NPCs, not the plot-integral ones!

Then we as the player needed to be told:

1.  Why doing her mission in lowtown was actually essential.  As things are Hawke could easily have 50 sovereigns before this mission even comes up.

2.  We need to be given a good reason why Hawke and Co can't simply kill Sister Petrice and Varnell when it's very obvious they tried to murder Hawke and Co.  Given that Petrice is acting completely on her own, there is no good reason why a particularly vengeful Hawke wouldn't just kill her then and there.

-Polaris

In my book being able to kill her off entirely wouldn't have been the issue, but the simple option of trying. She would perhaps escape and everything would proceed as norma, perhaps with a more careful Petrice.
At least having the option to try would give some sense of player agency.

[MisterJB]

CrystaJ wrote...
"... it can harm innocent people? Pfft. No skin off MY back."

While you do have a point regarding how sometimes coincidences are just that, coincidences; this is definitively something that should have been left up to the player to decide.
Certainly, Tallis says innocents will be harmed if that information reaches the hands of human rulers. But not only is she not a believable source due to the fact she has already lied to Hawke and has reason to keep that list away from human hands, Hawke knows that qunari invasions harm a lot of innocent people.
Therefore, this has nothing to do with Hawke not being genre-savy but with Hawke fully knowing just how important that list is and just how violent qunari convertions are and still just allowing Tallis to walk a way with it, despite Hawke being able to be roleplayed as rather antagonistic towards qunari earlier in the DLC.

[CELL55]

IanPolaris wrote...

Filament wrote...

CrystaJ wrote...

Ol' Sister Petrice! How's the Chantry doing? I'm really glad you set me up to try and flame in a war. Cool, I can give you a few threats, but you go ahead and waltz out that door; not like you'll start even more sh!t down the line or anything.

"I sense she is an evil zealot, therefore I'm totally justified in killing her minutes after we meet because she will inevitably hatch a nefarious scheme in the future and cause us grief. I mean, she has already TRIED."

Dragon Age: murder is okay because you're the good guy.

She pretty much admitted her plan was to get you murdered in the first act. Some of my characters would have sought to provide a proportional response then and there, were they able.

Very true, and given that she was explicitly acting without the knowledge and consent of the Chantry, Hawke and Co should have felt free to murder-knife both her and her bodyguard right then and there.  The notion that a sister of the Chantry and her bodyguard was found dead in Lowtown would not exactly shock anyone nor merit much of an investigation tbh.

-Polaris

It especially wouldn't have proven to be a surprise to find her dead in lowtown because our first meeting with her is saving her from some thugs, if I recall correctly. If she and her ONE bodyguard are found dead later in the bad part of the city, people might get upset, but they wouldn't be surprised. Hawke could conceivably make an easy and clean getaway. 

Afterall, if a serial killer who leaves pieces of his victims just lying around and doesn't bother to change his base of operations for, like, 7 years can get away with killing several people, why couldn't Hawke get away with just killing two? The serial killer had what, one person investigating him for most of the time? Give me a break.

[snackrat]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Ol' Sister Petrice! How's the Chantry doing? I'm really glad you set me up to try and flame in a war. Cool, I can give you a few threats, but you go ahead and waltz out that door; not like you'll start even more sh!t down the line or anything.

Hello mum, how's it hanging? Someone gave you white lilies? The same kind a serial killer has be giving to single women? You want to start dating? Okay, have fun with that!
...*snip*...

Hey Isabela, isn't it weird how ...  [the Qunari] are looking for something really valuable and you are looking for something really valuable that you stole and you won't go into the Qunari compound. Who cares, I won't confront you or anything despite you acting really suspicious.

These were the worst. Adding to the third, the way she talks about the 'storm'. As in, the 'storm' in quotes: "There was a 'storm'." "If I had you when the ... ...'storm' hit.." egads



I think they're trying to go with a foreshadowing thing, but they worry if it is too suble you'll never notice. That's not how it should be done. They should leave us to make our own guesses, so we do not have enough evidence to react on something (which they did admit was all Hawke does - react).

Don't have Petrice all "Well IF this happened then MAYBE.... I guess we'll need to DO THIS INSTEAD". Just have some diffusion (or confusion). Better yet, don't have the other qunari spill all this info that make you suspect Petrice to start with. Let the deal feel werid maybe, and companions mention so, and maybe question Petrice and she's just 'haha don't know what you mean well that's a shame, toddloo" so that when she DOES go nuts, we had a hint without blatancy.

Don't have mum specify white lillies. Have her mention a suitor, maybe. Have her mention flowers, maybe. You could get away with both (maybe), if the player isn't paying attention. But since that line doesn't start until AFTER THE WHITE LILLIES DISCUSSION it is disgusting Hawke doesn't see it. In hindsight, we can still go "auuuugh the suitor's flooooweerrrs" without feeling like an idiot.*

Isabela, well maybe don't make her pause everytime she says 'storm' and stress the word so much? I thought she was supposed to be a good liar. And if she is supposed to be a good liar, can't you at least have a better explaination for why she isn't entering the compound? Even if it is just 'qunari are creepy augh horns' - it would be better if her reason is connected to the qunari herself so it isn't weird she has to see men about dogs at inconvenient times.



*THey did say there used to be an option to save Leandra (probably at the expense of letting the blood mages go), but it was removed because it wasn't much of an option - people ALWAYS took it. If it remained, perhaps the reason all that blatant stuff was written is to empower you to prevent it, but if so (a) it wouldn't be something 'always taken', because you could stuff up, and ( it should have been removed or modified in any case.

Modifié par Karsciyin, 25 mai 2013 - 02:44 .

[CaptainBlackGold]

Personally, I sympathize with the writers on this one. Though I do not know, I strongly suspect that certain plot points were determined by "higher authorities" and then the writing staff had to make sense of it all; hence, the logical inconsistencies, contrivances and obvious foreshadowings...

It certainly looked to me like a typical "Hollywood" type of thinking went into this plot - where the assumption is that the action is just so danged "awesome" that no one will notice the inconsistencies. And of course, most of the audience is too stupid to worry about these things and only the nerds will complain. Which if you think about it, pretty much describes most of us on these forums.

Once the decision was made to have the "framed narrative" Hawke was always going to be riding the old rail road removing player agency and forcing him to do stuff that we the player would shake our heads at. I am just impressed that the writers were able to make any of it plausible at all.

But I do hope we get something a bit more coherent with the next installment.

[Uccio]

Karsciyin wrote...

*THey did say there used to be an option to save Leandra (probably at the expense of letting the blood mages go), but it was removed because it wasn't much of an option - people ALWAYS took it. If it remained, perhaps the reason all that blatant stuff was written is to empower you to prevent it, but if so (a) it wouldn't be something 'always taken', because you could stuff up, and ( it should have been removed or modified in any case.

Having either your PC´s mom gutted, skinned and sawn together as zombie bride or saving her is not actually brainer what people would do. But istead of completely removing the option they should have made it a bit more difficult. I´m not talking about one decision where the option to save your mom is to let the bad gu go but a string of option which you had to choose throughout the first act which would result in a option to save her if all was done "right". 

[Hazegurl]

CrystaJ wrote...

Everyone's a genre-savvy genius here, aren't they?

"I sense she is an evil zealot, therefore I'm totally justified in killing her minutes after we meet because she will inevitably hatch a nefarious scheme in the future and cause us grief. I mean, she has already TRIED."

Dragon Age: murder is okay because you're the good guy.

It's not about using rpg knowledge as most of the things listed is knowledge you can pick up by playing the game. The game is from Hawke's pov so you know whatever he knows unless you've been metagaming.  I don't advocate killing Peatrice, as I typically keep her alive in my gameplays anyway. I understand her fears about the Qunari and as I see it, they were itching to convert when they got here and didn't like how Kirkwall was run.  You can get this by simply talking to the Arishok when you first meet him, which is before meeting Peatrice. However, she tried to have Hawke killed, I see no reason why Hawke wouldn't drop a heads up to the grand Cleric 3 yrs later when he gets noble status back. I sure would remember someone plotting to kill me.

"Mom's dating! It has to be that guy we heard about three years prior! I mean that plot thread won't just die without closure... and who the **** would wanna go after my buxom old lady other than a sociopath?"

"I totally didn't pick up on the lily thing in my auto-dialogue, by the way. Went right over my head."

I don't think its about the plot. I think it would have been cool to have the dialouge option to warn her only if the player spots the lilies and click on them or something.

"Yeah, it can't be some other powerful mage with an O name. That wouldn't make any sense in this game. No other alternatives have even been introduced, so we can assume they do not exist."

Connection to the circles and someone with access to necromancy tomes. With a Templar investigating the matter...seriously. Hawke couldn't have at least dropped a word that someone by the name "O" has access to necromancy tomes, you might want to search the circle for the "O" person as well as any possible missing necro tomes?

"... it can harm innocent people? Pfft. No skin off MY back."

Hawke shouldn't be forced into caring about Tallis' innocent people. It is supposed to be an rpg game after all.

"I mean two ships wrecking at the same time during a violent storm is too far-fetched to be a mere coincidence... at least in a video game!"

I suppose Hawke should totally overlook the fact that she would make up any excuse in the book not to enter the Qunari compound and that she flat out mentions being familiar with Qunari gun powder.  So no it doesn't take rocket science to realize that whatever Isabella is looking for is connected to the Qunari. Players shouldn't be punished for having common sense in this game for the sake of plot progression.

"Yeah, 'acting suspicious' is a perfectly legit reason for me to confront you about it, and you totally are going to tell me what the problem is once I do this. Or at least you should, anyway. Because I'm awesome and don't respect the privacy of my peers; I'm the ****ing hero, after all. You shouldn't even feel entitled to it. And if you don't tell me, I'll just stab you in the face before you can inevitably betray me, like I did with Petrice back there."

Ha! I'm Hawke, the leader of this merry band of misfits. You want me risking my neck? You better cough up the info I ask for or face the Arishok on your own. Even if Isabela lies to me, let me decide if I believe her or not and if I do and become her pawn, then that's my fault.

"These are totally ingredients for a bomb... I know that because... I'M THE HERO~! And I like chemistry."

Or perhaps, I'm a mage with a father who has trained me on demonic possession (we know this because mage Hawke can offer some knowledge on it). I also have another mage in my group who's had dealings with demons, Merrill.  We both should know you are lying crazy Anders!! We both should know that if you are possessed the only cure is death, we should know that if the Tevinter could cure demonic possession that knowledge would be in the hands of the Chantry, we should know that there is no way a demon would let YOU perform the ritual, if there was one. There is no excuse for mage Hawke or Merrill to be hit with the stupid stick on this one. Rogue and Warrior Hawke, yes and even then if the player brings along Merrill, she shouldn't be dumb about this. Remember in the same act Merrill asks Hawke to come with her to kill her if she is going to be possessed. Hmmm, why not ask Anders about his Tevinter "potion" instead?

(Someone already mentioned you can go to Cullen and blatantly rat on Anders, but Cullen is like "yeah we know he's a nut job." And as far as I know, you don't actually have to help him at all. My main Hawke didn't.)

I agree on this. None of my Hawke's help Anders. On my first playthrough, right after helping him gather the stuff he asks me to help get him into the Chantry and I put the brakes on immediately. During my confronting him, he dodged the questions, would not say why he needed entry into the Chantry, and then tried to derail by claiming I wasn't his friend. Well nope I'm not loony tune Anders. You get no help from me.  Mind you, I had no idea he made a bomb. But it was suspicious to me that he would think these ingredients would cure him of being poessed by a demon and i had no idea what snaeking into the Chantry had to do with curing him.

Afterall, this the same guy who has been ranting and raving for years about the Chantry and the Templars and claiming that his cause is lost. Oh no, he's not sneaking into that Chantry for anything good. I'm glad my Hawke can call him out on it and even say "That's not ingredients to cure yourself" or something. I just wish my Hawke could have this same insight in other aspects of the story.

But no, it's a game, and you know better. And you expect the characters to have the same insight. But they don't, and they shouldn't, and thankfully the writers at Bioware know this in spite of some of their blatant laziness (Meredith may be willing to kill every other mage in Kirkwall, but not you, Mr. Hero!)

tl;dr version: these are dumb complaints and you should feel bad about making them and I'm awesome

Um, no. This is a role playing game and if I can figure something out in game without metagaming it and without having any real knowledge on the Universe the game takes place in then you better implement some way MY character can acknowledge or investigate the matter and display the same insight based on that in game knowledge that I do. Even if it turns out a failure.

Don't have a bunch of clues sitting in my face and have my character, who is witnessing all of these clues and events first hand, make derp face for the sake of your plot progression. If you want to play a stupid character then good for you, the option should be there, if you want to ignore obvious clues given to you in the game by the devs, great. But if this is an RPG and I, the player, have seen certain clues, took note of certain pieces of info given to me AND my charatcer (as I am playing solely through their eyes and experience), don't just take over my character and go "This is a story and in this story the character just didn't notice or think it was important to mention it." or "The character cares about these innocent people and therefore won't do anything about it." nope, not gonna fly.

Let me say that I really liked DA2 I just understand where the OP is coming from and I don't want to have my character derping all over DA3 just to push the plot a certain way.

[In Exile]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
I would've been personally happy had the game provided a decent reason for 1) why I have to do the quest (if you've garnered enough coin and don't trust her, then the quest isn't necessary other then to advance the story) and 2) why killing her isn't an option.

RPGs struggle very much with the player's desire to be an insane bloodthirsty psychopath. The gameplay often revolves around mass murder, but the game never really addreses the actual problems with the kind of mass murder the player engages in. And suddenly the players are wondering why they can't use mass murder to solve every problem. 

Even RPGs that give you the freedom to actually gleefully engage in mass murder totally fail to adequately create any kind of proportional response to it. 

[UnderlAlDyingSun]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

iiReaperZz wrote...

I'm sure a lot of people here are measurably more retarded than Hawke ever was.

Can this thread be locked down already? Guess the DA2 haters still have some sand down there.

You obviously missed the part where I bluntly stated I wasn't a hater of DA2.

Reading comprehension, what is it.

The density of the material I have to review on a daily basis would make your head explode. Sorry if I missed the particulars of your cunning rant piece.

Fist as a verb.

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