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[Fast Jimmy]

Given that our VO files were defined by a string ID and suffix to denote male and female, the only way to have different VO for the same text would be to have the same line exist as 3 distinctly different, unique lines exist with unique string IDs for them to be matched up against.

Allan, I'm pretty confident that if you chose Diplomatic lines enough to get the dominant tone for it, then even your aggressive lines were said in the "diplomatic" voice.

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 24 mai 2013 - 06:31 .

[Dave of Canada]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

^

Allan, I'm pretty confident that if you chose Diplomatic lines enough to get the dominant town for if, then even your aggressive lines were said in the "diplomatic" voice.

Rarely, it was never really wide-spread. For example, the dockworker scene always has Hawke doing the same threat in the same voice but it's never registered as successful unless you're aggressive. Any line that says "aggressive" will always sound the same regardless of dominant tone, it's only the "neutral" lines which are said with tone in mind.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 24 mai 2013 - 06:31 .

[MerinTB]

David Gaider wrote...
Correct. The variances based on dominant tone were for the choice wheels, not the tone wheels. If you picked a response off the tone wheel, the tone of that response was already determined.

At any rate, that was for DA2. Dominant tone no longer exists for DAI. So it's a moot point.

Dominant tone was a good idea, whether or not the implementation worked as intened.

Curious to see what the new DA does for dialog.

[David Gaider]

Fast Jimmy wrote...
Allan, I'm pretty confident that if you chose Diplomatic lines enough to get the dominant town for if, then even your aggressive lines were said in the "diplomatic" voice.

That may have been your perception, but you are categorically incorrect.

[Fast Jimmy]

David Gaider wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...
Allan, I'm pretty confident that if you chose Diplomatic lines enough to get the dominant town for if, then even your aggressive lines were said in the "diplomatic" voice.

That may have been your perception, but you are categorically incorrect.

I apologize then. 

[MerinTB]

David Gaider wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...
Allan, I'm pretty confident that if you chose Diplomatic lines enough to get the dominant town for if, then even your aggressive lines were said in the "diplomatic" voice.

That may have been your perception, but you are categorically incorrect.

How would you say "Hawke's Personality" worked?

I know what the Complete Official Guide from Piggyback says about establishing Hawke's personality, how your dialog choices (Diplomatic, Humorous or Aggressive) stack to set your personality, and how hard it is to change it once it is set.

Either the guide is wrong, or I'm missing some nuance between what Fast Jimmy is saying and you are saying is wrong.

[Fast Jimmy]

As a side note, I really hope Piggyback is doing the guide for DA3. The guide they did for DA2 was an absolute wonder to read.

[InfinitePaths]

David Gaider wrote...

At any rate, that was for DA2. Dominant tone no longer exists for DAI. So it's a moot point.


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YES!

Modifié par HeriocGreyWarden, 24 mai 2013 - 06:42 .

[hoorayforicecream]

MerinTB wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...
Allan, I'm pretty confident that if you chose Diplomatic lines enough to get the dominant town for if, then even your aggressive lines were said in the "diplomatic" voice.

That may have been your perception, but you are categorically incorrect.

How would you say "Hawke's Personality" worked?

I know what the Complete Official Guide from Piggyback says about establishing Hawke's personality, how your dialog choices (Diplomatic, Humorous or Aggressive) stack to set your personality, and how hard it is to change it once it is set.

Either the guide is wrong, or I'm missing some nuance between what Fast Jimmy is saying and you are saying is wrong.

The dominant personality selected certain non-player-selected lines in certain conversations and barks. It did not, however, affect or override the tone of a specifically selected wheel choice with a specific tone attached.

[MerinTB]

EntropicAngel wrote...

MerinTB wrote...
How would you say "Hawke's Personality" worked?

I know what the Complete Official Guide from Piggyback says about establishing Hawke's personality, how your dialog choices (Diplomatic, Humorous or Aggressive) stack to set your personality, and how hard it is to change it once it is set.

Either the guide is wrong, or I'm missing some nuance between what Fast Jimmy is saying and you are saying is wrong.

Jimmy is saying that when you picked a diplomatic option, but your dominant tone was aggressive, the line would be said in a more aggressive tone that if your dominant tone was, say, sarcastic.

Gaider is saying that that mechanic--the dominant tone affecting the line--was restricted to the choice wheel, or the wheel where you had three (usually) options, where all had the little picture of three arrows angling outward at 60 degree intervals.

Right, and the official guide which, about which Mike Laidlaw says "The guide you hold in your hands ... is the end results of remarkable hard work and dedication.  ... The team at Piggyback (with the tireless efforts of our own Chris Corfe) have taken great pains to ensure this guide is all you need" ...

page 160 -"The first dialogue choice you make sets Hawke's personality.  If your first pick is a Diplomatic option, for example, Hawke's voice will adopt the diplomatic line that follows.  As you keep choosing similar options at the dialogue wheel, they "stack."  If you were to decide to change your personality later on, it would take more than twice the amount of (either Humorous or Aggressive) dialog lines to active that version of Hawke's voice."

I read that to mean that once you've set his tone to Diplomatic, that even picking the Aggressive option will give a diplomatic voiced / tone version of the Aggressive option.

Which is what I took Fast Jimmy to be saying.

And David Gaider to be saying is wrong.

The guide and Jimmy can be wrong, and David can absolutely be right.  I, personally, didn't do save scrumming to test this or take any notes so my three plays were three different dominant tones and I didn't particularly note if this was happening or not.

If the Guide and Jimmy are wrong (or I'm wrong in the understanding of them), I'm sincerely curious as to WHAT the dominant tone meant in DA2, and figure that David, since he's answering the forums ATM, is the guy to ask.

Seriously not trying to be a jerk or anything - honestly curious.  I quite liked the Piggyback guide, personally, and took it to be largely true.

[Allan Schumacher]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Allan, I'm pretty confident that if you chose Diplomatic lines enough to get the dominant tone for it, then even your aggressive lines were said in the "diplomatic" voice.

EDIT: I see Gaider already responded to this, but here was my response.


I'd expect some level of placebo effect then.  I suppose *maybe* there's some level of post processing by Audio systems, but I wouldn't say the technology is really ready to apply a lot of that without it being quite noticeable.


Part of the system testing that I did on DA2 was previewing the voice in the toolset, and making sure the system was setup and properly supported previewing the player lines as they were now spoken as well.  If we had different voices for different dominant tones on the same lines, there would have needed to have been systemic and tool support for auditioning such things.  I know for a fact that the auditioning/toolset work did not support such permutations.  I'm pretty confident that there was no such systemic support, given the way that our audio/VO system referenced audio for voiced lines.

I also created a tool that allowed QA to systematically test each dialogue line without having to worry about things like plot states.  The primary user of this tool was some cinematic testers, but also the Loc/VO teams.  They were able to sign off on localization and VO, and my tool did not support any sort of dominant tone alterations (and given that my tool iterated over each line, would have created some exceptionally fubarred states of the dominant tone system since it played each and every single line of dialogue, PC and NPC.

Modifié par Allan Schumacher, 24 mai 2013 - 07:22 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

My understand of how dominant tone worked matches what David has just said. But it was stronger than just tone. When selecting a choice wheel option, sometimes the content of the spoken line was wildly different based on Hawke's dominant tone.

But, regardless, dominant tone is going away, and I'm very happy about that. Giving us more moment-to-moment control is better than giving us less. Some might argue that dominant tone gave us more control, as it allowed more possible Hawke speech variation, but since that variation was decided for us rather than by us, I'd say it did more harm than good.

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Part of the system testing that I did on DA2 was previewing the voice in the toolset, and making sure the system was setup and properly supported previewing the player lines as they were now spoken as well.

Now I really wish DA2's toolset had been released, as we possibly could then have modded this feature into the actual game.

[Allan Schumacher]

page 160 -"The first dialogue choice you make sets Hawke's personality. If your first pick is a Diplomatic option, for example, Hawke's voice will adopt the diplomatic line that follows. As you keep choosing similar options at the dialogue wheel, they "stack." If you were to decide to change your personality later on, it would take more than twice the amount of (either Humorous or Aggressive) dialog lines to active that version of Hawke's voice."

I read that to mean that once you've set his tone to Diplomatic, that even picking the Aggressive option will give a diplomatic voiced / tone version of the Aggressive option.

There was basically a running score for which value was the highest, and whichever value was the highest, was your dominant tone.

So you start off at 0 0 0 for each

Pick 2 diplomatics and you get 2 0 0
THen pick an aggressive and you get 2 0 1 (and diplomatic is still dominant).
Pick 4 sarcastic lines, and now it's 2 4 1 and sarcastic is the dominant tone.


As for "picks the diplomatic line that follows," in the first dialogue where you're arguing about what to do just before Aveline and Wesley, there are "dominant tone" lines, but they are automatically spoken. So when you pick your first diplomatic/aggressive/sarcastic line, the line immediately following will be of the dominant tone line (as it's an automatic line).

[Allan Schumacher]

It doesn't appear to be super well written.

In order to change dominant tone, you need to accrue more points in one form than another. I don't remember the full details, so maybe it does need to exceed the previous tone by double in order to change the tone.

Still, I think people are grasping too much to the "activate that version of Hawke's voice." That just means that, for the times that the dominant tone is used. It doesn't mean that the player's dominant personality is used all the time.

[Dagr88]

HeriocGreyWarden wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

At any rate, that was for DA2. Dominant tone no longer exists for DAI. So it's a moot point.


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YES!

Thats kinda sad. "Having a personality" which leads to some consequences/unique options is an aspect of role playing.
Hopefully they evolved it into something better.

Modifié par Dagr88, 24 mai 2013 - 09:54 .

[thats1evildude]

I never noticed a difference between Diplomatic, Sarcastic and Aggressive Hawke beyond the ambient dialogue and certain options that were available to each of the three personalities.

If the Diplomatic dialogue option was "Hello, how are you?", then in my experience, Diplomatic, Sarcastic and Aggressive Hawke all delivered it the same way. Likewise, if the Aggressive option was "****** off!", then Diplomatic, Sarcastic and Aggressive Hawke all delivered it the same way.