162 réponses à ce sujet

[Pint]

Damage output. Survivability is useful if I'm trying to negotiate the enemies to surrender under fire, I don't think they'll talk back however.

[Nicegil2012]

I try to balance both as much as I can. I like the fact that can take another prime shot or that a ravager wont take my shields in one hit. I also recognize the importance of the damage output. Shield recharge delay is also very helpful.

[Thylakaleo]

See, it's kinda cool how they did it though, where one tree has damage output from weapons/powers, and a different tree has damage output for melee, or the shield boost.

So, you don't really have to sacrifice damage output for shields and health. Sometimes you have to sacrifice another power/parts of the power, but only one power for 50% more health and shields, or the end part of a power or two for 50% health and shields, i would take health and shields every time.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

Thylakaleo wrote...

I respectfully disagree. If you're stuck in traffic, it makes a difference, but the way shield gate works (as far as i understand) is that if a shot knocks you down to one shield, the subsequent shot can only take away the rest of your shield, and wont touch your health. It's the shot after that, that chips away at your health.

That's close. Health Gate is the one that stops just short of the pool emptying. Shield Gate Just stops the original shot from doing any health damage, but if you are "shield-gated" you've lost all your shields. With most kits, three shots will kill you, if the first shield-gates you.

I agree that even a small amount of health can make a difference. It's kind of absurd for anyone to suggest you need the difference between a Drell and a Krogan to see it. I can feel the difference between a Drell and a Shadow. I can feel the difference between a Volus and everything else.

Even the first three levels in fitness can make a difference, by preventing the enemy from reaching certain damage threshholds. It matters when it takes an enemy an extra attack cycle to kill you.

I've played around back and forth between 3 fitness ranks and none in my Human Sentinel, and Tech Armour makes the difference between them very noticeable.

OT:
I would have to say damage, now. It's a little in favour of damage, but as a long-time duration-spec Shadow user, I definitely have a long history of sacrificing damage output for survivability.

Modifié par Jeremiah12LGeek, 25 mai 2013 - 02:25 .

[Creator Limbs]

RedJohn wrote...

  I always prefer damage output, but what about you?

Also tell me why.

In my case, I always prefer damage output because I think that dead enemies deal no damage.

Except for abominations of course :/

What about you?

Damage output will always beat survivability because the faster you kill things, the less damage that can be done to you in the first place.

[Thylakaleo]

Jeremiah12LGeek wrote...

Thylakaleo wrote...

I respectfully disagree. If you're stuck in traffic, it makes a difference, but the way shield gate works (as far as i understand) is that if a shot knocks you down to one shield, the subsequent shot can only take away the rest of your shield, and wont touch your health. It's the shot after that, that chips away at your health.

That's close. Health Gate is the one that stops just short of the pool emptying. Shield Gate Just stops the original shot from doing any health damage, but if you are "shield-gated" you've lost all your shields. With most kits, three shots will kill you, if the first shield-gates you.

I agree that even a small amount of health can make a difference. It's kind of absurd for anyone to suggest you need the difference between a Drell and a Krogan to see it. I can feel the difference between a Drell and a Shadow. I can feel the difference between a Volus and everything else.

Even the first three levels in fitness can make a difference, by preventing the enemy from reaching certain damage threshholds. It matters when it takes an enemy an extra attack cycle to kill you.

I've played around back and forth between 3 fitness ranks and none in my Human Sentinel, and Tech Armour makes the difference between them very noticeable.

OT:
I would have to say damage, now. It's a little in favour of damage, but as a long-time duration-spec Shadow user, I definitely have a long history of sacrificing damage output for survivability.

But, both health and shield gate grant tiny windows of invulnerability still, right?

OT- I feel like it depends on skill. It's a lot easier for a new player to use a high resistance kit, and let everyone else damage things. Once you develop a decent amount of skill and knowledge of the game, it gets a lot easier to use kits with less health, so the damage works out better.

But, tanks are an important part of any game like this, and a skilled user with a tank, can be just as reliable as a good DPS player, if not, moreso.

[Supreme Leech]

Jeremiah12LGeek wrote...

...

What difficulty do you play?

Modifié par XFG-65, 25 mai 2013 - 02:32 .

[dudemacha]

Also having small increments in sheilds or health can prove life saving because of DR from dodging, flipping etc, you may not evade the attack but definitely reduce the damage taken, so those extra 325 shields in base human charecters are helpful if you know when to dodge
Just my experiance

[Zjarcal]

Cheese

[Cirvante]

damage output = survivability

also:

redjohn pls

[Thylakaleo]

Cirvante wrote...

damage output = survivability

also:

redjohn pls

So, by the symmetric property,  survivability=damage output

Which makes sense.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

Thylakaleo wrote...

But, both health and shield gate grant tiny windows of invulnerability still, right?

I think there is a small fraction of invulnerability. If you assume three high-damage shots, from a Scion or Geth Prime, the pattern would be: First shot clears your shields entirely (shield-gating you,) leaving you with your full health pool; Second shot health-gates you, leaving you with 5% of your health (I think it's 5 %); and the third shot is then free to kill you.

Combat will make the specifics murky, and getting shot by many enemies at once can certainly make it feel like there are no gates at all.

[Tokenusername]

I think i've found the perfect argument to embody BSN's opinion on this matter.

Modifié par Tokenusername, 25 mai 2013 - 02:42 .

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

XFG-65 wrote...

Jeremiah12LGeek wrote...

...

What difficulty do you play?

Gold/Plat.

Unless I'm testing new kits or weapons.

[RamsenC]

Most of the time, damage, but on Human Soldier I prefer DR AR. Mainly due to diminishing returns and the fact that you can't get DR from any other source. Survivability is obviously powerful though, look at Kroguard. Of course the Reegar being stupid is also part of that. 

Modifié par RamsenC, 25 mai 2013 - 02:47 .

[Kinom001]

Survivability, because I don't have nearly enough op packs and medigels.

Modifié par Kinom001, 25 mai 2013 - 02:43 .

[Thylakaleo]

Air Quotes wrote...

Thylakaleo wrote...

Cirvante wrote...

damage output = survivability

also:

redjohn pls

So, by the symmetric property,  survivability=damage output

Which makes sense.

 

Not really. You can have massive survivability with a Jugg but crap damage output and the survivability won't save you. And you can have massive damage output and low survivability with Drelldept, but kill everything in 5 seconds. 

Right, but what everyone is dancing around, is that things that tend to die easily... die easily.

So, if you can stay alive to deal the damage, then a damage output, glass class is better. But, if you die 20 seconds in to the wave, but the tank stays on his feet the whole time, who will have done more damage that round?

[Kinom001]

Air Quotes wrote...

Kinom001 wrote...

Survivability, because op packs and medigel are scarce.

 

 waaat?

For me, I should say. They're scarce for me. Well, I have plenty of medigels but op packs are like hens teeth.

[Thylakaleo]

Jeremiah12LGeek wrote...

Thylakaleo wrote...

But, both health and shield gate grant tiny windows of invulnerability still, right?

I think there is a small fraction of invulnerability. If you assume three high-damage shots, from a Scion or Geth Prime, the pattern would be: First shot clears your shields entirely (shield-gating you,) leaving you with your full health pool; Second shot health-gates you, leaving you with 5% of your health (I think it's 5 %); and the third shot is then free to kill you.

Combat will make the specifics murky, and getting shot by many enemies at once can certainly make it feel like there are no gates at all.

That seems to be what i found online about it. Sometimes i can feel it when i play, and i'm taking fire from all around, i keep an eye on my shields so i can ops pack. Usually, i see them steadily decrease, then when i get gated, there's a tiny wondow where everything is calm, even though i'm taking fire. Then, right when i die, that always seems to come suddenly. I watch my health drop, it hits the bottom, stops for a second, and then i fall.

Would that mean on a high health class like the jugg, 5% of  2000 health is 100 health. So his health gate is like, almost half of all of a squishy drell or volus's health. So, he could theoritically sit at shield gate, and still take some light damage.

Modifié par Thylakaleo, 25 mai 2013 - 02:46 .

[Cyonan]

I mix things up depending on what I feel like playing at the time.

People can say that dead enemies can't hurt so damage gives survivability, but there's also the old saying on WoW that dead players do 0 DPS. It can work both ways.

Your damage output should never be terrible though, regardless of which kit you're playing.

[Thylakaleo]

Cyonan wrote...

I mix things up depending on what I feel like playing at the time.

People can say that dead enemies can't hurt so damage gives survivability, but there's also the old saying on WoW that dead players do 0 DPS. It can work both ways.

Your damage output should never be terrible though, regardless of which kit you're playing.

My argument basically. That's what i was trying to say. haha.

Modifié par Thylakaleo, 25 mai 2013 - 02:47 .