Implying ridiculous damage output does not equal survivability
dead enemies don't shoot back
Survavibility Vs Damage output, which one do you prefer?
Débuté par
RedJohn
, mai 25 2013 01:20
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#127
Posté 03 juin 2013 - 06:41
The Mysterious Stranger
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That is a tricky question... hmmm... I answer that damage output equals survavibility.
Modifié par The Mysterious Stranger, 03 juin 2013 - 06:41 .
#128
Posté 03 juin 2013 - 06:48
Titus Thongger
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I'll take tanky anyday. I love meleeing entire waves while eating ops packs like candy
#129
Posté 03 juin 2013 - 07:42
-Scythe-
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RedJohn. You play Krogans. So why would you need to spec Fitness.
I play Drells.
With 0 points in Fitness.
RedJohn pls.
I play Drells.
With 0 points in Fitness.
RedJohn pls.
#130
Posté 03 juin 2013 - 07:44
Kirrahe Airlines CEO
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For most characters I prefer to have a balance of the two. The ones I know that I can survive with low health, I'll do the crazy damage output.
#131
Posté 03 juin 2013 - 07:45
koschwarz74
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proper damage output=survavibility. the faster they die, the harder they kill me.
most of my kits are on evo3, rarely evo 4 fitness. and i don't use cyclonic (cuz i rather want cryo ammo instead
). and i honestly don't feel the difference between evo3 and evo6 fitness (gold or above).
i prefer max out the 3 powers. you can't put on a power but can put on a shield booster from gear mods, if you need it.
and: like acolyte, i think geth scanner is a game changer. geth scanner=1000 shield.
most of my kits are on evo3, rarely evo 4 fitness. and i don't use cyclonic (cuz i rather want cryo ammo instead
). and i honestly don't feel the difference between evo3 and evo6 fitness (gold or above).i prefer max out the 3 powers. you can't put on a power but can put on a shield booster from gear mods, if you need it.
and: like acolyte, i think geth scanner is a game changer. geth scanner=1000 shield.
Modifié par koschwarz74, 03 juin 2013 - 07:56 .
#132
Posté 03 juin 2013 - 07:48
Gao Qiu
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Drellfiltrator - very high damage, also great defensive capabilities thanks to tactical cloak and drell speed to get you out of trouble very quickly, not to mention his ability to kill from behind walls - and know exactly what he's killing - thanks to recon mine. Definitely benefit from both here.
#133
Posté 03 juin 2013 - 08:04
mandalorian sun
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Option C: I prioritize crowd control over all. If a class has no crowd control, i don't play it
Modifié par mandalorian sun, 03 juin 2013 - 08:07 .
#134
Posté 03 juin 2013 - 08:12
TheSHAD0W Ninja
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Damage output.
If you've played the Ghost, you'll understand. your survivability comes in the form of grenades, as it were. Everything else, you max that damage output and be #1 on the board. EVERY. TIME.
If you've played the Ghost, you'll understand. your survivability comes in the form of grenades, as it were. Everything else, you max that damage output and be #1 on the board. EVERY. TIME.
#135
Posté 03 juin 2013 - 08:13
TheSHAD0W Ninja
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I spose that it all depends on the character, in the end. I play high damage-output players. Kill them so they can't kill anything.
#136
Posté 03 juin 2013 - 09:01
Samerandomscreennameidontcareabout
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RedJohn wrote...
I always prefer damage output, but what about you?
Also tell me why.
In my case, I always prefer damage output because I think that dead enemies deal no damage.
Except for abominations of course :/
What about you?
That´s not even a choice. As long as you are not one of the guys that can solo Plat glacier hazzard vs. collectors, it´s damage all the way. Yo need to be able to take anything down quick as a dead enemy is your best bet for survival. You need maximum firepower to break through a pretorian sandwhich, etc. pp.
Except of course for infiltrators, but they have survivability and damage in one ability anyway.
#137
Posté 03 juin 2013 - 09:04
Caldari Ghost
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He just did that to show it was a valid build, in support of the original creator, who was getting criticized for skipping HM.IamZAE wrote...
In general
More survivability >>>>>>>>> More dps
But however the better a player becomes and he/she is able to stay alive with squishy kits as well as another player with a tanker kit then
Dps > survivability.
Also try to solo thunderdome with a no fitness GI, even caineghis had to drop hunter in favor of full fitness
Modifié par Caldari Ghost, 03 juin 2013 - 09:05 .
#138
Posté 03 juin 2013 - 10:14
oO Stryfe Oo
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VoidNeXus 000 wrote...
Implying ridiculous damage output does not equal survivability
dead enemies don't shoot back
Solo the Thunderdome with a no fitness GI. Bring any weapon/gear/equips you want, but you cannot use Cyclonic Modulators.
Edit: The point being that ridiculous damage output alone doesn't equal jack **** when enemies can take you down by blinking.
Modifié par oO Stryfe Oo, 03 juin 2013 - 10:15 .
#139
Posté 03 juin 2013 - 10:23
Wizard of Ox
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Tankiness does not necessarily equal survivability. As previously said, dead enemies don't shoot back and, if you have troubles, use Cyclonic Modulators. So, for me, it's damage output. Besides, if you can't deal much damage, the enemies will overpower you and you won't survive either. This doesn't apply to solos, where you can run around endlessly avoiding enemies.
#140
Posté 03 juin 2013 - 10:28
Ysundeneth
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I usually try to balance it out but lately i've put the emphasis on damage output as i manage no to go down often.. The more damage you deal the quicker enemies die and i've nothing against a gold game that lasts 15 minutes instead of 25/30. Games tend to last longer nowadays with the new recruits so i do what i can to make it go quicker.
Modifié par Ysun deneth, 03 juin 2013 - 11:41 .
#141
Posté 03 juin 2013 - 11:34
wnieves
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Gao Qiu wrote...
Drellfiltrator - very high damage, also great defensive capabilities thanks to tactical cloak and drell speed to get you out of trouble very quickly, not to mention his ability to kill from behind walls - and know exactly what he's killing - thanks to recon mine. Definitely benefit from both here.
I use him all the time. Took some time and lots of practice
And use him for gold lobbies. I got over the fear him being
squishy. I love the damage he does...crowd control.
#142
Posté 03 juin 2013 - 11:36
ROBOTICSUPERMAN
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Any fast glass cannon builds like 0 fitness slayer or fury.
#143
Posté 03 juin 2013 - 12:18
Brad_8333
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Jack Crapper wrote...
Grasshopper, greater damage can give you more survivability, but greater survivability will never give you more damage.
Ahh but you have forgotten little one, a dead man will not harm the living one. Aside from the plague of abominations, of course.
#144
Guest_Aotearas_*
Posté 03 juin 2013 - 12:31
Guest_Aotearas_*
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Every playstyle has a break-even point where damage capacity becomes survivability, because things die so fast they can't deal much damage at all.
Obviously that point is different for each kit and the total damage peak capacity varies per kit, i.e. an Human Vanilla Engineer has less raw damage capacity than a Geth Infiltrator, which means that the engineer player needs more skill (and possibly equipment) to roughly compare to a Geth Infiltrator equivalent in damage output. Crowd Control capacities however are invaluable too. Unless you face cheating Geth Hunters, target incapacitation means no enemy damage aswell, and even though its still live and a potential threat, they can be disposed of quickly, which in turn means more survivability to the player aswell.
In short, I share a similar, if not the same sentiment as Red John does:
If your capacity to kill/incapacitate the enemy surpasses the enemies' capacity to kill you, the difference is equal to a proportional survivability increase.
And since killing them fast also depletes their spawn tickets faster, that also means not only does your survivability surpass effective enemy damage capacity (the one they can actually cause before getting killed), but it also proportionally decreases game-time, which is usually considered a good thing too and a major argument for any damage vs survivability discussion.
Best of both worlds.
Obviously that point is different for each kit and the total damage peak capacity varies per kit, i.e. an Human Vanilla Engineer has less raw damage capacity than a Geth Infiltrator, which means that the engineer player needs more skill (and possibly equipment) to roughly compare to a Geth Infiltrator equivalent in damage output. Crowd Control capacities however are invaluable too. Unless you face cheating Geth Hunters, target incapacitation means no enemy damage aswell, and even though its still live and a potential threat, they can be disposed of quickly, which in turn means more survivability to the player aswell.
In short, I share a similar, if not the same sentiment as Red John does:
If your capacity to kill/incapacitate the enemy surpasses the enemies' capacity to kill you, the difference is equal to a proportional survivability increase.
And since killing them fast also depletes their spawn tickets faster, that also means not only does your survivability surpass effective enemy damage capacity (the one they can actually cause before getting killed), but it also proportionally decreases game-time, which is usually considered a good thing too and a major argument for any damage vs survivability discussion.
Best of both worlds.
#145
Posté 03 juin 2013 - 12:33
Tonymac
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Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...
Every playstyle has a break-even point where damage capacity becomes survivability, because things die so fast they can't deal much damage at all.
Obviously that point is different for each kit and the total damage peak capacity varies per kit, i.e. an Human Vanilla Engineer has less raw damage capacity than a Geth Infiltrator, which means that the engineer player needs more skill (and possibly equipment) to roughly compare to a Geth Infiltrator equivalent in damage output. Crowd Control capacities however are invaluable too. Unless you face cheating Geth Hunters, target incapacitation means no enemy damage aswell, and even though its still live and a potential threat, they can be disposed of quickly, which in turn means more survivability to the player aswell.
In short, I share a similar, if not the same sentiment as Red John does:
If your capacity to kill/incapacitate the enemy surpasses the enemies' capacity to kill you, the difference is equal to a proportional survivability increase.
And since killing them fast also depletes their spawn tickets faster, that also means not only does your survivability surpass effective enemy damage capacity (the one they can actually cause before getting killed), but it also proportionally decreases game-time, which is usually considered a good thing too and a major argument for any damage vs survivability discussion.
Best of both worlds.
^ Well stated and perfectly true in my opinion.
#146
Posté 03 juin 2013 - 12:37
koschwarz74
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oO Stryfe Oo wrote...
VoidNeXus 000 wrote...
Implying ridiculous damage output does not equal survivability
dead enemies don't shoot back
Solo the Thunderdome with a no fitness GI. Bring any weapon/gear/equips you want, but you cannot use Cyclonic Modulators.
Edit: The point being that ridiculous damage output alone doesn't equal jack **** when enemies can take you down by blinking.
true but this is an extreme example.
i think if someone can manage shield gate, he can survive even with a low shield. the worst enemy of a low shield kit is the one with high RoF weapon, like centurion or marauder. the difference between a higher shield kit and a low shield kit is that the higher shield kit can survive one more burst from the marauder's pheaston XXXV. two marauders shoot you at the same time: most of time it's a guaranteed down at higher difficulties.
other danger is a melee enemy like brute since melee breaks shield gate.
phantoms are dangerous for almost every kit so higher shield means nothing against them, instead only a good power or weapon can save you.
Modifié par koschwarz74, 03 juin 2013 - 12:43 .
#147
Guest_Aotearas_*
Posté 03 juin 2013 - 12:46
Guest_Aotearas_*
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Tonymac wrote...
Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...
Every playstyle has a break-even point where damage capacity becomes survivability, because things die so fast they can't deal much damage at all.
Obviously that point is different for each kit and the total damage peak capacity varies per kit, i.e. an Human Vanilla Engineer has less raw damage capacity than a Geth Infiltrator, which means that the engineer player needs more skill (and possibly equipment) to roughly compare to a Geth Infiltrator equivalent in damage output. Crowd Control capacities however are invaluable too. Unless you face cheating Geth Hunters, target incapacitation means no enemy damage aswell, and even though its still live and a potential threat, they can be disposed of quickly, which in turn means more survivability to the player aswell.
In short, I share a similar, if not the same sentiment as Red John does:
If your capacity to kill/incapacitate the enemy surpasses the enemies' capacity to kill you, the difference is equal to a proportional survivability increase.
And since killing them fast also depletes their spawn tickets faster, that also means not only does your survivability surpass effective enemy damage capacity (the one they can actually cause before getting killed), but it also proportionally decreases game-time, which is usually considered a good thing too and a major argument for any damage vs survivability discussion.
Best of both worlds.
^ Well stated and perfectly true in my opinion.
I would like to take a look at the opposing sight of the coin too:
The previous sentiment was made with a particulary skilled player in mind. The truth is obviously not every one in this MP population could align him-/herself with that method as s/he doesn't have the necessary skill to break-even as I had mentioned.
For such people, the discussion offers the exact opposite solution. Survivability means more applied damage output. A bleeding player can't deal damage (Annihilation Field/Drones/Turrets ignored for ease of argumentation), so the longer they can stay alive vs any given odds, the more they can apply their own damage capacity against the enemy.
That is what I'd consider a beginner's solution. Stay alive long enough to get to know the game's quirks and odds, to familiarize yourself with mechanics and tactics/strategies, learn and apply them and over time naturally acquire skill. The "evolution" from "survivability for damage" to "damage for survivability" playstyles is what I'd consider a natural step-up in game that comes with a steady learn-curve.
Obviously not everyone is entirely motivated (or has time to achieve) to get to such a point as is evidenced by the MP population we have (from which a fair portion does not consider Gold their go-to difficulty for fun matches and more like "OMG OMG WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!"), so my argumentation is not universally applicable as much as it is in fact a theoretic application of the game's own learn-curve that not everyone can or is willing to follow through.
Modifié par Neofelis Nebulosa, 03 juin 2013 - 12:47 .
#148
Posté 03 juin 2013 - 12:47
SilentStep79
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VoidNeXus 000 wrote...
Implying ridiculous damage output does not equal survivability
dead enemies don't shoot back
i tried to tell them that on page 3.
#149
Posté 03 juin 2013 - 12:51
Caldari Ghost
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A candle in a sea of darkness................. a home in the wilderness.silentstep79 wrote...
VoidNeXus 000 wrote...
Implying ridiculous damage output does not equal survivability
dead enemies don't shoot back
i tried to tell them that on page 3.
grasshoppers
#150
Posté 03 juin 2013 - 12:57
Caldari Ghost
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that's why you kill them first.Thylakaleo wrote...
silentstep79 wrote...
kill them before they kill you.
boom. damage output AND survivability.
you're welcome.
Unless.
Wait for it.
wait for it.
They kill you first because you are squishy.
