726 réponses à ce sujet

[mewarmo990]

DocLasty wrote...

I got used to it, but what also irked me when I first saw gameplay footage was the "pew pew pew" sound that guns now make

...what 'pew pew pew' sound? All the guns I've heard have more a of a 'rat-tat-tat-tat' noise to them.

I was thinking of the SMGs, and assault rifles to a lesser extent. Check the Infiltrator video.

[DocLasty]

mewarmo990 wrote...

DocLasty wrote...

I got used to it, but what also irked me when I first saw gameplay footage was the "pew pew pew" sound that guns now make

...what 'pew pew pew' sound? All the guns I've heard have more a of a 'rat-tat-tat-tat' noise to them.

I'm thinking of the automatic weapons - the assault rifles and SMGs.

Hm. Havent't heard anything like that, but maybe i just missed it.

[brunomalta]

What about the CODEX entry on the first game:

The ammo magazine is a simple block of metal. The gun's internal computer calculates the mass needed to reach the target based on distance, gravity, and atmospheric pressure, then shears off an appropriate sized slug from the block. A single block can supply thousands of rounds, making ammo a non-issue during any engagement.

Modifié par brunomalta, 19 janvier 2010 - 02:23 .

[IvanTurbinca]

people like reloading in shooters

[Murmillos]

brunomalta wrote...

What about the CODEX entry on the first game:

The ammo magazine is a simple block of metal. The gun's internal computer calculates the mass needed to reach the target based on distance, gravity, and atmospheric pressure, then shears off an appropriate sized slug from the block. A single block can supply thousands of rounds, making ammo a non-issue during any engagement.

And that is still the case in ME2.

Modifié par Murmillos, 19 janvier 2010 - 02:27 .

[brunomalta]

Murmillos wrote...

brunomalta wrote...

What about the CODEX entry on the first game:

The ammo magazine is a simple block of metal. The gun's internal computer calculates the mass needed to reach the target based on distance, gravity, and atmospheric pressure, then shears off an appropriate sized slug from the block. A single block can supply thousands of rounds, making ammo a non-issue during any engagement.

And that is still the case in ME2.

But each mag will have a thousand rounds right? 

I don´t mind the change really. I just want that they avoid putting holes in the Canon or the Codex. This change is nothing big since it doesn´t change what was stated on ME 1. 

Modifié par brunomalta, 19 janvier 2010 - 02:33 .

[DocLasty]

That codex entry still holds true; the only thing that's changed is the method of cooling.



Again, it comes back to the central point - is the game fun to play? Every indicator shows that it is, and there's nothing to indicate that it's not. I haven't seen a single video where a guy ran out of ammo completely and had to resort to pistol whipping people to death. Every class has at least one ability that doesn't rely on ammo, and a couple of them - Engineer and Adept, specifically - seem strong enough with their abilities that they could probably get by without ever firing a single shot. So I don't see a problem.

[Murmillos]

brunomalta wrote...

Murmillos wrote...

brunomalta wrote...

What about the CODEX entry on the first game:

The
ammo magazine is a simple block of metal. The gun's internal computer
calculates the mass needed to reach the target based on distance,
gravity, and atmospheric pressure, then shears off an appropriate sized
slug from the block. A single block can supply thousands of rounds,
making ammo a non-issue during any engagement.

And that is still the case in ME2.

But each mag will have a thousand rounds right? [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/grin.png[/smilie]

I
don´t mind the change really. I just want that they avoid putting holes
in the Canon or the Codex. This change is nothing big since it doesn´t
change what was stated on ME 1. But i´m kind of worried with the other
changes. That part about the fuel on Normandy sounds a little but
fishy. Will have to study the CODEX to learn more about it.

Technically,
yes, the ammo blocks can still supply thousand of rounds.  In ME1, the only limiting factor in how long you could fire at one time was limited by heat, which was normally passively cooled.  You also know that some mods increased the heat generation of the weapons you fired, and some mods which provided endless passive cooling.  Either way, the game was unbalanced due to this mechanic.  Now cooling is 100% provided by these handy thermal clips.

How the function is the whole debate of these threads...  Again, we've only seen short clips so we don't know if not using a weapon (meaning putting it away and using another one) will allow it to automaticly cool down in 2-3 minutes or not.  Only real time game play will tell us - or reading the Codex on how the system works.

Modifié par Murmillos, 19 janvier 2010 - 02:36 .

[Satanicfirewraith]

Daeion wrote...

I think it was a dumb addition and just another thing they did to appease the shooter players.  Still, I'm fine with an ammo system if it's actually ammo I have to collect, but as was previously stated, the idead of a weapon not cooling down eventually is pretty lame.  If I finish up a fire fight and then run around on the citadel for an hour or two, you are going to tell me that my assualt rifle can't cool down in that time period eventhough your current day M16 would.  Anyone notice how for ME it was all about "roleplaying perfected," now for ME2 it's all about the "intense shooter action."  I'm still going to get the game and I'm sure I'll like it, but every time I read something it's about how dumbed down the game is now, I mean come on, you don't even have to equip your patry members, the game does it for you...

Indeed.
I have brought that up a few times about how ME was an RPG with shooter ememnts, and how BW is saying ME 2 is a shooter rpg.
and Christina say as much in the first 20 sec of the soldier class vid.

Its less about rpg and more about shooter.

[Soruyao]

So guys, I was putting together some old posts to reply to this topic, but it ended up getting a little long for me to feel good about smooshing it into the forum.

For everyone who doesn't think that the ammo mechanic works from a lore or a gameplay point of view, I'd reccomend you take a look at these.  There's 2 posts, one is on the lore side of things and the other is on the gameplay/game design side.

Lore: rhue.blogspot.com/2010/01/ammo-part-1.html

Gameplay: rhue.blogspot.com/2010/01/ammo-part-2.html

Lemmie know what you think.

[brunomalta]

Soruyao wrote...

So guys, I was putting together some old posts to reply to this topic, but it ended up getting a little long for me to feel good about smooshing it into the forum.

For everyone who doesn't think that the ammo mechanic works from a lore or a gameplay point of view, I'd reccomend you take a look at these.  There's 2 posts, one is on the lore side of things and the other is on the gameplay/game design side.

Lore: rhue.blogspot.com/2010/01/ammo-part-1.html

Gameplay: rhue.blogspot.com/2010/01/ammo-part-2.html

Lemmie know what you think.

I liked a lot the text about the Lore. Sounds like a good explanation.

[akintu]

 I'm really thinking the cooling is handled by some form of liquid coolant. Like Helium. In essence, the guns are overheating with each round fired. But the Helium gets injected after each shot, cooling it back down. Each "heatsink clip" contains only so much Helium, so that limits the number of times you can fire. Its not as though the gun doesn't cool down on its own, it is just that cooling down after two hours of non-use has no bearing on the remaining Helium in the clip.

Our AR is basically firing with the power of a dual scram rail SR with explosive rounds. At full auto. With liquid helium cooling. Badass!

(I'm so caught up on Helium because it has unique cooling properties and is plentiful as a fuel in the ME universe. In certain states, Helium has a higher thermal conductivity than any known substance, and heat actually moves through it in waves.)

[Satanicfirewraith]

Soruyao wrote...

So guys, I was putting together some old posts to reply to this topic, but it ended up getting a little long for me to feel good about smooshing it into the forum.

For everyone who doesn't think that the ammo mechanic works from a lore or a gameplay point of view, I'd reccomend you take a look at these.  There's 2 posts, one is on the lore side of things and the other is on the gameplay/game design side.

Lore: rhue.blogspot.com/2010/01/ammo-part-1.html

Gameplay: rhue.blogspot.com/2010/01/ammo-part-2.html

Lemmie know what you think.

Unless its BW telling it then its only your best idea on what may or may not happened.
The point is lore wise its makes no sense.

Reguardless of what you guys say, the bottom line is the weapons no longer cool down themselves... only reloading cools them down. I dont care who you are, NO ONE in any sort of position would think that is an upgrade. They would find a way to make a hybrid system or improved the passive cooling output.

No military force would take their soldiers weapons that has almost limitless firing ability and replace it with something very limited. If they had to improve the weapons output to keep up with tech, they would improve the passive cooling output instead of risking theit best troops.

[DPSSOC]

Satanicfirewraith wrote...

Indeed.
I have brought that up a few times about how ME was an RPG with shooter ememnts, and how BW is saying ME 2 is a shooter rpg.
and Christina say as much in the first 20 sec of the soldier class vid.

Its less about rpg and more about shooter.

Do you have any evidence, any at all, that the RPG elements have suffered?  Adding ammo doesn't take away from character, or story, or you ability to make choices and effect the world, or your ability to customize your character?

Is it not possible that Bioware said, "Ok ME was a great RPG, but the shooter aspects need some work, and we received these complaints regarding the inventory, skills, etc."

I acknowledge that in order to work on the shooter aspects of the game time and money had to be taken away from other parts of the game, but do you have any evidence that the game is less of an RPG than ME?

[sinosleep]

Satanicfirewraith wrote...
Indeed.
I have brought that up a few times about how ME was an RPG with shooter ememnts, and how BW is saying ME 2 is a shooter rpg.
and Christina say as much in the first 20 sec of the soldier class vid.

Its less about rpg and more about shooter.

Except for the fact that everything in the game is still stat based (rpg based) other than aiming and decrypting. All of two aspects of gameplay are more about shooter, while THE ENTIRETY OF THE REST OF THE GAME is quite clearly an rpg.

Why oh why can't I stop feeding the troll?

Modifié par sinosleep, 19 janvier 2010 - 03:00 .

[DocLasty]

The core problem is that you're looking at this as if it's a real thing, instead of a gameplay mechanic. We could argue lore and whatnot all day; the proof of that will come in the new codex. But even if it the explanation doesn't pan out, if the game is more fun to play as a result - which, again, everything seems to point to - then what's the problem?

[darkogreer]

well they are combining to great gaming elements shooter and rpg in well lets face the game of the year like dont complain just hurry up and give me my copy i want it so much

[Soruyao]

Satanicfirewraith wrote...

Soruyao wrote...

So guys, I was putting together some old posts to reply to this topic, but it ended up getting a little long for me to feel good about smooshing it into the forum.

For everyone who doesn't think that the ammo mechanic works from a lore or a gameplay point of view, I'd reccomend you take a look at these.  There's 2 posts, one is on the lore side of things and the other is on the gameplay/game design side.

Lore: rhue.blogspot.com/2010/01/ammo-part-1.html

Gameplay: rhue.blogspot.com/2010/01/ammo-part-2.html

Lemmie know what you think.

Unless its BW telling it then its only your best idea on what may or may not happened.
The point is lore wise its makes no sense.

I came up with AN explanation that makes perfect sense.   I'm sure bioware was able to make an even better explanation than the one I came up with.

The point is, as long as I can prove that there's one explanation that makes sense, then it's very likely bioware did it too.

Reguardless of what you guys say, the bottom line is the weapons no longer cool down themselves... only reloading cools them down. I dont care who you are, NO ONE in any sort of position would think that is an upgrade. They would find a way to make a hybrid system or improved the passive cooling output.

Unless the guns would do a lot more damage because of it.

No military force would take their soldiers weapons that has almost limitless firing ability and replace it with something very limited. If they had to improve the weapons output to keep up with tech, they would improve the passive cooling output instead of risking theit best troops.

Unless they could make the guns hit massively harder to the point where it would be worth it.

[tommythetomcat]

Satanicfirewraith wrote...

tommythetomcat wrote...

Running out of ammo conveys a sense of urgency to your situation, It adds a lot to idea of keeping you on your toes and not just using Marksman and spam firing 800 rounds until your HIGH target assist kills things half a screen away from your reticule.

Not really... Running out of ammo for your weapons dont really convay a sense of urgancy...
I mean Sheps supposta be the best of the best of the best correct? So it would be completely logical to believe that he is a dead on shot with most weapons correct?

So now you have weapons that have unlimited firing ability, do you really thing that even giving to todays soliders that all of a sudden they will adopt the spray and pray method?
What I find funny is all these people crying how it was soo easy to spam the firing trick... They are probably the same ones who spammed it in every game.
Same about the ones who cried about the weapons always overheating. Funny even on my insanity playthrough, I rarly overheated my weapon, (excluding the sniper for the obvious reasons)

It just seems to me that this new ammo mechanic is a cop out to actually having to fix the old system so it was better balanced.

You are not even trying anymore, step your game up.

[akintu]

Soruyao wrote...

So guys, I was putting together some old posts to reply to this topic, but it ended up getting a little long for me to feel good about smooshing it into the forum.

For everyone who doesn't think that the ammo mechanic works from a lore or a gameplay point of view, I'd reccomend you take a look at these.  There's 2 posts, one is on the lore side of things and the other is on the gameplay/game design side.

Lore: rhue.blogspot.com/2010/01/ammo-part-1.html

Gameplay: rhue.blogspot.com/2010/01/ammo-part-2.html

Lemmie know what you think.

Nice pages, thanks for putting those together

[tommythetomcat]

Soruyao wrote...

So guys, I was putting together some old posts to reply to this topic, but it ended up getting a little long for me to feel good about smooshing it into the forum.

For everyone who doesn't think that the ammo mechanic works from a lore or a gameplay point of view, I'd reccomend you take a look at these.  There's 2 posts, one is on the lore side of things and the other is on the gameplay/game design side.

Lore: rhue.blogspot.com/2010/01/ammo-part-1.html

Gameplay: rhue.blogspot.com/2010/01/ammo-part-2.html

Lemmie know what you think.

Not bad but you really need a lighter background on your blog if that is indeed your blog... it made my head hurt

Modifié par tommythetomcat, 19 janvier 2010 - 04:25 .

[Ilawene]

Soruyao wrote...

Unless the guns would do a lot more damage because of it.

I really hope Bioware dont try this explanation to be honest, or they'll have to also explain why anybody who isnt shielded isnt instantly vaporised by a graze, or why creatures/monsters/thresher maws arent comically easy to kill with these new superguns.

[Daeion]

DPSSOC wrote...

Satanicfirewraith wrote...

Indeed.
I have brought that up a few times about how ME was an RPG with shooter ememnts, and how BW is saying ME 2 is a shooter rpg.
and Christina say as much in the first 20 sec of the soldier class vid.

Its less about rpg and more about shooter.

Do you have any evidence, any at all, that the RPG elements have suffered?  Adding ammo doesn't take away from character, or story, or you ability to make choices and effect the world, or your ability to customize your character?

Is it not possible that Bioware said, "Ok ME was a great RPG, but the shooter aspects need some work, and we received these complaints regarding the inventory, skills, etc."

I acknowledge that in order to work on the shooter aspects of the game time and money had to be taken away from other parts of the game, but do you have any evidence that the game is less of an RPG than ME?

Obviously we won't have this until we've played the game but what we are hearing isn't promising.  Like I said before, they went from saying ME was rping perfected to now all they talk about is the intense shooter gameplay.  Then there's the fact that you don't even need to equip your squadmates because the game does it for you.  I read a post over on the original forums about a reveiw and the mako is gone and now there's just a screen shot of a shuttle dropping you of in a small area to explore on foot.  I also don't like the way they changed ammo powers.  Ammo went from being a little something extra that you added to your weapon to something that apparently bumped out other skills and you now need to train.  I really liked the soldier class in ME but now based on what I've seen I'm not really feeling it.

Like I said, I'm sure I'll enjoy the game, I'm really hoping that I do, but everytime something new comes out it just feels like they've dumbed down the game and that the game is going to feel like they took a shooter and through a bunch of RPG elements at it just to see what stuck.

[Daeion]

sinosleep wrote...

Satanicfirewraith wrote...
Indeed.
I have brought that up a few times about how ME was an RPG with shooter ememnts, and how BW is saying ME 2 is a shooter rpg.
and Christina say as much in the first 20 sec of the soldier class vid.

Its less about rpg and more about shooter.

Except for the fact that everything in the game is still stat based (rpg based) other than aiming and decrypting. All of two aspects of gameplay are more about shooter, while THE ENTIRETY OF THE REST OF THE GAME is quite clearly an rpg.

Why oh why can't I stop feeding the troll?

I'm "ok" with them doing away with weapon skills; still think it should
be there but w/e.  I don't think they needed to dumb down the game by
getting rid of the decrypting skill.  Part of an RPG is deciding how to
balance your team and the skills that squad mates bring to the party
should be a part of that.

Modifié par Daeion, 19 janvier 2010 - 05:04 .

[DocLasty]

I read a post over on the original forums about a reveiw and the mako is gone and now there's just a screen shot of a shuttle dropping you of in a small area to explore on foot.



What's better, a large area with only one or two things of any interest (tops) or a small area with a lot of things that are interesting in it? Most of the time in the Mako was spent just driving to place and popping the gun at things, or trying to figure out the right way to get up a mountain. Now, when you get on a planet, you go straight to the action. How is that a bad thing?



I also don't like the way they changed ammo powers. Ammo went from being a little something extra that you added to your weapon to something that apparently bumped out other skills and you now need to train.



It hasn't really bumped out anything. The ammo powers work on the fly, and they have a much more profound effect than they did before. They can also be evolved in two different ways for varying benefits.



but everytime something new comes out it just feels like they've dumbed down the game and that the game is going to feel like they took a shooter and through a bunch of RPG elements at it just to see what stuck.



I really do not see where this 'dumbed down' thinking keeps coming from. It's been simplified, yes, but that's not the same thing as dumbing down. Dumbing down would be getting rid of the RPG elements completely. What we have now is a system that allows for more customization than before, more choices, more powers. Each class has a new power, brand new, that makes playing with them a different experience. Each power can be evolved in two different ways to fit your preferences. You can use powers faster and more often before, so there's less taking cover while you wait for powers to recharge. When you develop your powers, you'll actually see noticeable differences this time, instead of just increasing the range by a foot or two each time.