726 réponses à ce sujet

[sinosleep]

Daeion wrote...

I'm "ok" with them doing away with weapon skills; still think it should
be there but w/e.  I don't think they needed to dumb down the game by
getting rid of the decrypting skill.  Part of an RPG is deciding how to
balance your team and the skills that squad mates bring to the party
should be a part of that.

Believe it or not I actually agree with you on the decryption thing. They've essentially done away with the "rogue" class and I think that's detrimental to the game but other than that ONE thing I agree with every other change that they've made. And considering that they've added more things than they've gotten rid of (ammo mods are now stat based so that's an rpg bonus, evolving skills result in far more costumization than ANYTHING ME 1 offered) on the whole I'm happy.

[Xena_Shepard]

Y'know people whined and complained that ME1 didn't have any real tactical combat.



Having to duck and run between cover as your gun cooled off was the most tactical, heart throbbing experience I ever had, to think that a guy could come around the corner and blow my brains out when i was the equivalent of "out of ammo"



Now that's an intense tactical situation.

[hawat333]

Lorewise, there is no sense in completely removing the cooling system. It should have stayed, and dunno, kicks in when you run out of heat sinks, but with a longer cooling time. I don't believe something like this didn't come up neither that it would be that hard to make.

Hey, but there's nothing we can do about it, gamepalywise it will work fine, I guess.

[Anzer]

I'll let you know after I've played the game and had a chance to make in informed opinion.

[robedlizard]

yeah dont dis what you have not experienced.

[DocLasty]

Xena_Shepard wrote...

Y'know people whined and complained that ME1 didn't have any real tactical combat.

Having to duck and run between cover as your gun cooled off was the most tactical, heart throbbing experience I ever had, to think that a guy could come around the corner and blow my brains out when i was the equivalent of "out of ammo"

Now that's an intense tactical situation.

The only way you're going to run out of ammo is if you just randomly fire away. No reviewer has had that problem. No gameplay video has shown a player coming close to empty. And even if you do, for some odd reason, run out of ammo, every class has at least one power that never runs out and can be used very quickly, even Soldier.

[Daeion]

DocLasty wrote...
What's better, a large area with only one or two things of any interest (tops) or a small area with a lot of things that are interesting in it? Most of the time in the Mako was spent just driving to place and popping the gun at things, or trying to figure out the right way to get up a mountain. Now, when you get on a planet, you go straight to the action. How is that a bad thing?

Or they could have kept the larger areas and made them more interesting.  I just read another thread that was quoting some german review that said there will be a hammerhead which is a hover version of the mako as part of a free DLC so now I don't know what the other thread was getting at.

DocLasty wrote...
It hasn't really bumped out anything. The ammo powers work on the fly, and they have a much more profound effect than they did before. They can also be evolved in two different ways for varying benefits.

Where's my Assualt training with its adrenaline burst, or fitness with it's immunity, or combat armor with shield boost, heck even the actual weapon skills had special abilities in them, all of which are gone.  These helped to differentiate the classes, now from what I've seen in the videos each class has about 2-3 powers and then ammo abilities.

DocLasty wrote...
I really do not see where this 'dumbed down' thinking keeps coming from. It's been simplified, yes, but that's not the same thing as dumbing down. Dumbing down would be getting rid of the RPG elements completely. What we have now is a system that allows for more customization than before, more choices, more powers. Each class has a new power, brand new, that makes playing with them a different experience. Each power can be evolved in two different ways to fit your preferences. You can use powers faster and more often before, so there's less taking cover while you wait for powers to recharge. When you develop your powers, you'll actually see noticeable differences this time, instead of just increasing the range by a foot or two each time.

You want dumbed down?  I don't even need to look at my inventory now or worry about if my squadmates are properly equiped, it's done for me, that's dumbing down that game.  Getting rid of RPG elements is changing the focus of the game which they seem to be doing anyways.

[sinosleep]

DocLasty wrote...
The only way you're going to run out of ammo is if you just randomly fire away. No reviewer has had that problem. No gameplay video has shown a player coming close to empty. And even if you do, for some odd reason, run out of ammo, every class has at least one power that never runs out and can be used very quickly, even Soldier.

I've been saying this since practically page one. Games in which ammo is standard fare don't have an issue with you running out of ammo for standard weapons unless you can't hit the broadside of a barn. I've stated numerous examples of this. It NEVER HAPPENS. Essentially, if you don't suck, EVERY TPS/FPS game has unlimitted ammo for standard weapons. Sure, there might be a number there, and sure you might need to collect more, but if you are running out of ammo for anything other than the big bad weapons that would make the game trivial it's not cause there's not enough ammo around, it's cause you suck.

Now if that's the case, and believe me it is, and Bioware is going out of their way to try to emulate these games, why on earth would they no put enough heat syncs in the game to where the only ammo you really have to worry about are the big bad weapons that would make the game trivial if you could use them all game? 

You guys are looking at it all wrong. The ammo aspect of it means less than nothing. What's important is that they've taken something that was passive, and made it active. That is unequivocally a better mechanic.

[DocLasty]

Where's my Assualt training with its adrenaline burst, or fitness with it's immunity, or combat armor with shield boost, heck even the actual weapon skills had special abilities in them, all of which are gone. These helped to differentiate the classes, now from what I've seen in the videos each class has about 2-3 powers and then ammo abilities



Let's say we both play Infiltrator in ME1. We both reach level sixty.



There might be some minor differences between our characters - maybe you choose a different specialization, maybe you choose to ignore pistols and focus on the sniper rifles a bit, but, for the most part, it'll be the same experience. There's not much room for variation.



In ME2, however, we could have wildly different characters even within the same class. Me, I intend to focus on the stealth aspect. I'll go with Agent, which lets my Cloak power last longer, and I'll back that up with focus on AI Hacking, since it might be nice to sneak behind enemies and screw with their mechs. You might go the assassin route, which focuses on improving the sniper rifle. When you take aim, time will slow down, letting you be more accurate. On top of that, you get a nice damage boost.



Each class has stuff like that within the classes, so they're much more differentiated overall. It's a wider experience.





You want dumbed down? I don't even need to look at my inventory now or worry about if my squadmates are properly equiped, it's done for me, that's dumbing down that game. Getting rid of RPG elements is changing the focus of the game which they seem to be doing anyways.





You know what I see when I look in my inventory? A bunch of crap I don't need. I have to tediously go through and turn this and that to omnigel, and for what? Small defense bonuses? Color-swapped suits and guns that all work the same, save for itty bitty details? Good riddance. And you still have choice on what weapons and stats your characters use.

[sinosleep]

Daeion wrote...

Where's my Assualt training with its adrenaline burst, or fitness with it's immunity, or combat armor with shield boost, heck even the actual weapon skills had special abilities in them, all of which are gone.  These helped to differentiate the classes, now from what I've seen in the videos each class has about 2-3 powers and then ammo abilities.

Forcing the player into crappy powers to get to good ones doesn't make it a "smarter" gameplay mechanic. A better version of adrenaline burst is in the game without the nearly useless points into a melee skill.

Immunity was always a broken mechanic, so I don't miss it one bit.

The weapon abilites are still there, it's just that instead of dumping stat points into them you just upgrade the weapons themselves and kill two birds with one stone by making the mineral gathering worth a damn.

I'd say the new evolving mechanic is a FAR SUPERIOR way to differentiate the classes, even amongst themselves (two different biotics will be far more different than two biotics in ME 1) so that's really a moot point as well.

You want dumbed down?  I don't even need to look at my inventory now or worry about if my squadmates are properly equiped, it's done for me, that's dumbing down that game.  Getting rid of RPG elements is changing the focus of the game which they seem to be doing anyways.

Do you really think that it's going to function perfectly all of the time? There's a reason why they let you override the thing. Also, as I've mentioned in countless other threads, once you unlocked spectre gear, you didn't have to worry about anyone's inventory ANYWAY. You're not actually losing anything. You're losing an inventory system that wasn't ever used any way.

[DocLasty]

sinosleep wrote...

DocLasty wrote...
The only way you're going to run out of ammo is if you just randomly fire away. No reviewer has had that problem. No gameplay video has shown a player coming close to empty. And even if you do, for some odd reason, run out of ammo, every class has at least one power that never runs out and can be used very quickly, even Soldier.

I've been saying this since practically page one. Games in which ammo is standard fare don't have an issue with you running out of ammo for standard weapons unless you can't hit the broadside of a barn. I've stated numerous examples of this. It NEVER HAPPENS. Essentially, if you don't suck, EVERY TPS/FPS game has unlimitted ammo for standard weapons. Sure, there might be a number there, and sure you might need to collect more, but if you are running out of ammo for anything other than the big bad weapons that would make the game trivial it's not cause there's not enough ammo around, it's cause you suck.

Now if that's the case, and believe me it is, and Bioware is going out of their way to try to emulate these games, why on earth would they no put enough heat syncs in the game to where the only ammo you really have to worry about are the big bad weapons that would make the game trivial if you could use them all game? 

You guys are looking at it all wrong. The ammo aspect of it means less than nothing. What's important is that they've taken something that was passive, and made it active. That is unequivocally a better mechanic.

Even if you don't suck, it's not that big of a problem. I'm horrible at Halo 3 and Left 4 Dead. I mean, embarrasingly bad. I've never ran out of ammo once.

[Daeion]

sinosleep wrote...

DocLasty wrote...
The only way you're going to run out of ammo is if you just randomly fire away. No reviewer has had that problem. No gameplay video has shown a player coming close to empty. And even if you do, for some odd reason, run out of ammo, every class has at least one power that never runs out and can be used very quickly, even Soldier.

I've been saying this since practically page one. Games in which ammo is standard fare don't have an issue with you running out of ammo for standard weapons unless you can't hit the broadside of a barn. I've stated numerous examples of this. It NEVER HAPPENS. Essentially, if you don't suck, EVERY TPS/FPS game has unlimitted ammo for standard weapons. Sure, there might be a number there, and sure you might need to collect more, but if you are running out of ammo for anything other than the big bad weapons that would make the game trivial it's not cause there's not enough ammo around, it's cause you suck.

Now if that's the case, and believe me it is, and Bioware is going out of their way to try to emulate these games, why on earth would they no put enough heat syncs in the game to where the only ammo you really have to worry about are the big bad weapons that would make the game trivial if you could use them all game? 

You guys are looking at it all wrong. The ammo aspect of it means less than nothing. What's important is that they've taken something that was passive, and made it active. That is unequivocally a better mechanic.

I ran out of ammo all the time when I played ODST, didn't have an issue with Halo 3 though.  Probably about 90% of the enemies I killed were with weapons their buddies had just dropped.

[Kaylis DX]

As long as you can get rid of the heating problem all together, like with the Frictionless Material upgrades in ME1, then I don't really mind. Since you have a station where you upgrade everything though, I'm pretty confident that you'll be able to do things like that....at least I HOPE you can, otherwise this will get really annoying like having to find fuel for your ship. >->

[sinosleep]

Daeion wrote...
I ran out of ammo all the time when I played ODST, didn't have an issue with Halo 3 though.  Probably about 90% of the enemies I killed were with weapons their buddies had just dropped.

I'm not a big Halo fan, so I've never played ODST, but I can tell you how many times I ran out of ammo or standard weapons in Far Cry 2, Kill Zone 2, Halo 3, Gears of War, Let 4 Dead, F.E.A.R, S.T.A.L.K.E.R, Resistance, and I'm sure I could go on. By and large, if you don't suck you don't run out of ammo.

[brunomalta]

People....just think of this: DEUS EX.

[ztonkin]

Personally, I would have liked to see a system like this: you fire a weapon, which causes heat to start building, being stored in the heat sink. Eventually, you need to eject the heat. So, you would push a button on the gun and it pops the sink open, ejecting the heat, not the sink. The catch is: you can't fire while ejecting the heat. But to balance it, enemies have this same problem, so the system provides moments of opportunity for both parties. And in terms of lore, not gameplay, a sink will eventually need to be swapped out as it begins to degrade after a period of extended use. The missle launchers should have ammo counts though, to maintain balance, and cause it makes sense. It would at least make sense compared to the new system.

[Daeion]

DocLasty wrote...
You know what I see when I look in my inventory? A bunch of crap I don't need. I have to tediously go through and turn this and that to omnigel, and for what? Small defense bonuses? Color-swapped suits and guns that all work the same, save for itty bitty details? Good riddance. And you still have choice on what weapons and stats your characters use.

Or instead they could have improved the system while keeping it inplace instead of scrapping it.  Part of an RPG is having to make the decision of do I need this or can I get rid of it.  I will agree that the inventory system was clunky in ME, I played the PC version which from what I've read had a better system but it was still clunky.  I know I was always maxed on omnigel and trying to sort through ammo and mods was a chore because they didn't group all the cryo rounds or what not together so you were scrolling back and forth.  This however to me presents to perfect opportunity to improve the RP aspect of the game by adding a crafting system or something to do with all the excess omnigel as well as a better sorting system perhaps similar to DA:O where same items stack on eachother but keeping the decision making in the game.  Now the game does it for me.  Yes I can still change out weapons for a mate but I don't even need to because the game has already given them the best in slot items.

[DPSSOC]

Daeion wrote...

Where's my Assualt training with its adrenaline burst, or fitness with it's immunity, or combat armor with shield boost, heck even the actual weapon skills had special abilities in them, all of which are gone.  These helped to differentiate the classes, now from what I've seen in the videos each class has about 2-3 powers and then ammo abilities.

Weapon Skills and Special Abilities replaced with Ammo Powers (4 for 4 if I'm not mistaken)

Adrenaline Burst replaced with Adrenaline Rush

Immunity replaced with Concussive Shot

The only difference is now leveling up an ability is good for more than one weapon.  It's the game acknowledging that Shepard's supposed to be a fully trained soldier, not some raw recruit, and doesn't need to learn which end of the gun goes BOOM.  Now I can't speak for anyone else but by the time I reach level 30 all my talents are where I want them and the remainder of my points are being put into stuff I don't care about for marginal gain.

Daeion wrote...

You want dumbed down?  I don't even need to look at my inventory now or worry about if my squadmates are properly equiped, it's done for me, that's dumbing down that game.  Getting rid of RPG elements is changing the focus of the game which they seem to be doing anyways.

Yes you don't arm up your squad anymore but you have greater ability to customize and arm yourself.  In the game you're supposed to be their Commanding Officer not their baby sitter, the characters should be capable of dressing themselves.  Why some games force you to take care of them like a fussy mother on the first day of school I'll never understand.

[robedlizard]

play the game then make an accurate assessment



enough said.



stop whining.

[Daeion]

sinosleep wrote...

Daeion wrote...

Where's my Assualt training with its adrenaline burst, or fitness with it's immunity, or combat armor with shield boost, heck even the actual weapon skills had special abilities in them, all of which are gone.  These helped to differentiate the classes, now from what I've seen in the videos each class has about 2-3 powers and then ammo abilities.

Forcing the player into crappy powers to get to good ones doesn't make it a "smarter" gameplay mechanic. A better version of adrenaline burst is in the game without the nearly useless points into a melee skill.

Immunity was always a broken mechanic, so I don't miss it one bit.

The weapon abilites are still there, it's just that instead of dumping stat points into them you just upgrade the weapons themselves and kill two birds with one stone by making the mineral gathering worth a damn.

I'd say the new evolving mechanic is a FAR SUPERIOR way to differentiate the classes, even amongst themselves (two different biotics will be far more different than two biotics in ME 1) so that's really a moot point as well.

I'm not saying all the abilities were useful, yes the melee damage bonus of assualt training was pointless but that's more an issue of Bioware adding a bonus for an aspect of the game that didn't exist, however now with limited ammo it could be more prevelent. 

I'd love to see this writeup on evolving powers because the only time I've seen anything on poweres an abilities is in the class videos where they show your char screen but don't mouse over everything so I can't see the progression of powers.

sinosleep wrote...

You want dumbed down?  I don't even need to look at my inventory now or worry about if my squadmates are properly equiped, it's done for me, that's dumbing down that game.  Getting rid of RPG elements is changing the focus of the game which they seem to be doing anyways.

Do you really think that it's going to function perfectly all of the time? There's a reason why they let you override the thing. Also, as I've mentioned in countless other threads, once you unlocked spectre gear, you didn't have to worry about anyone's inventory ANYWAY. You're not actually losing anything. You're losing an inventory system that wasn't ever used any way.

If they are going to put it into the game as their improvement to the previous system then yes, it better damn well work.  I'll agree that once you had the money to get spectre weapons for everyone then yes, that was what you got, but I never had enough money to outfit my entire squad on a first playthrough so I still had to make decisions on what each person got to use.  Once again, I would say this is an area that they could have improved upon by actually making things limited and it sounds like they sort of did that but from the writeup it sounded more like each member has a specific special weapon that sounded a lot like unlocking ultimate weapons in final fantasy which doesn't really add to the RP because it's a no brainer and you don't have to make decisions.

[sinosleep]

Were you doing the side missions? I seriously have to ask because I manage to reach the money cap before even doing Virmire each and every time.

[brunomalta]

People, the truth is, imho, that Mass Effect 1 was never a full blow RPG. It was an action game with some inventory management badly done. What set it appart was the choices and that, i believe, will still be the case and will even play a major role from what i gather by the dev videos.

[Skalman91]

Satanicfirewraith wrote...

Seriously, there was no logical reason for them to cut the passive cooling system out completely making it so you cant use your weapon...

Completely retarded.

I like how you judge something you have not experienced.

This is for you.

[DocLasty]

I'd love to see this writeup on evolving powers because the only time I've seen anything on poweres an abilities is in the class videos where they show your char screen but don't mouse over everything so I can't see the progression of powers.



Go on IGN and look for the class videos. Each one features a short interview with Christina Norman, where she explains the class in-depth and gives some possibilities.

[robedlizard]

no trolls wanted here, over there or any were