726 réponses à ce sujet

[DocLasty]

To me I see it as a hinderance, a break in the flow of combat, special after ME 1. And there really isnt anything to show that it wont be a problem either! I mean the short clips and vids we have rarely show the jist of the game, and when they have load screens that tell you if your low on clips to switch weapons, and when they have it set up where it auto switches weapons when your out of ammo, and its all about the shooter elements... blah blah blah blah... I see it as a BIG problem.





Yes, it's just an opinion, but it's an opinion based on the hours of footage from the game that's available, as well as the reviews from people who've played the game, none of which mention it as a problem. It also comes from the experience of playing games which have similar systems and don't have the problem unless you go around shooting randomly.



So, opinion? Yes. But it's an informed opinion, not just worrying for the sake of worrying without any basis.

[Satanicfirewraith]

Daeion wrote...

DocLasty wrote...
That's the thing, though - there's been nothing to even hint that quantity is going to be a problem. Reloads come regularly enough that you should have a decent supply at all times. On top of that, powers recharge faster and are more powerful than before - even if you do run out, you're hardly defenseless, even if you're a soldier. Some classes, like Adept, even seem capable of going into combat and never firing their weapon once.

There's also nothing to hint at the fact that it won't be an issue.  To me if you are going to add an ammo system it has to be limiting, if you never have to worry about not having enough ammo then what's the point of introducing an ammo system in the first place?

This!

[robedlizard]

Satanicfirewraith wrote...

Daeion wrote...

DocLasty wrote...
That's the thing, though - there's been nothing to even hint that quantity is going to be a problem. Reloads come regularly enough that you should have a decent supply at all times. On top of that, powers recharge faster and are more powerful than before - even if you do run out, you're hardly defenseless, even if you're a soldier. Some classes, like Adept, even seem capable of going into combat and never firing their weapon once.

There's also nothing to hint at the fact that it won't be an issue.  To me if you are going to add an ammo system it has to be limiting, if you never have to worry about not having enough ammo then what's the point of introducing an ammo system in the first place?

This!

your say doesnt really matter anyways.
the game comes out in within the next week
get over it
and if you really have a problem unlike the majority of people then dont get the game and stick with dragon age origins. then you wont have to deal with ammo. or fuel.

[Malastare-]

Daeion wrote...

There's also nothing to hint at the fact that it won't be an issue.  To me if you are going to add an ammo system it has to be limiting, if you never have to worry about not having enough ammo then what's the point of introducing an ammo system in the first place?

To keep things from getting stupid.  You don't need to be a shooter fan to see that unlimited ammo usage is a bad thing.  So, yes, it has to be limiting, but what it has to limit is unrealistic play, not necessarily "weak" play.

Look at Dragon Age. People worried about not being able to rest to heal.  They said that they were afraid of always being short on health potions.  Now, some people did find that they were gulping the things down like there was no tomorrow (and for their characters, there probably wasn't).  However, most people found that they either had a comfortable supply around at all times or (like me) that they could have taken a bath in the damn things and still had extra (80+ at one point).

So, if people weren't constantly running out, what was the point of having them?  Because having a number there to quantify a limitation keeps people from adopting truly bizarre or stupid strategies which would exploit a simpler system.  Having someone gulping down a dozen health potions in a two-minute ogre-fight is just as game-breaking as having them empty eighty "clips" into a room to fight a handful of enemies.

[Soruyao]

Satanicfirewraith wrote...

Daeion wrote...

DocLasty wrote...
That's the thing, though - there's been nothing to even hint that quantity is going to be a problem. Reloads come regularly enough that you should have a decent supply at all times. On top of that, powers recharge faster and are more powerful than before - even if you do run out, you're hardly defenseless, even if you're a soldier. Some classes, like Adept, even seem capable of going into combat and never firing their weapon once.

There's also nothing to hint at the fact that it won't be an issue.  To me if you are going to add an ammo system it has to be limiting, if you never have to worry about not having enough ammo then what's the point of introducing an ammo system in the first place?

This!

You want the most boring way to play possible to be the most effective one?  Nu uh.   If you roll as a soldier you SHOULD be using all of your weapons.  You have five of them.  Maybe being forced to actually use some more of them is a good thing?   Being encouraged to use the best gun for every situation (SG close range, sniper long range, AR midrange, etc) seems like it will make combat more immersive.  If you do that and use your powers effectively, you will never run out of "ammo".    

Also, if you use the same gun for every situation, you will be less effective than if you used your other guns sometimes too, because of the way enemy defenses work.   (Using slow punchy weapons for armor, and fast spammy ones for shields, etc.)   Even if you had infinite ammo, you would still want to switch for those situations, and your gameplay experience would be the same.

Also, from the footage I've seen, reloading in this game is faster than reloading in any other game I've ever seen.  Seriously, watch some of the CES gameplay, people were reloading their AR's faster than the time between shots on a sniper rifle.   We're actually going to spend way less time out of combat because of this.

Oh, and for the people who ran around with dual frictionless and think they never overheated, remember sabotague spam?    That was 1000% times more flow breaking than reloading could ever be.

Oh, and if all else fails, you can combat pause every few seconds so that you can line up your shots before you fire.  That way, you'll never miss, even if you suck.   

[Satanicfirewraith]

Soruyao wrote...

You want the most boring way to play possible to be the most effective one?  Nu uh.   If you roll as a soldier you SHOULD be using all of your weapons.  You have five of them.  Maybe being forced to actually use some more of them is a good thing?   Being encouraged to use the best gun for every situation (SG close range, sniper long range, AR midrange, etc) seems like it will make combat more immersive.  If you do that and use your powers effectively, you will never run out of "ammo".    

Also, if you use the same gun for every situation, you will be less effective than if you used your other guns sometimes too, because of the way enemy defenses work.   (Using slow punchy weapons for armor, and fast spammy ones for shields, etc.)   Even if you had infinite ammo, you would still want to switch for those situations, and your gameplay experience would be the same.

Also, from the footage I've seen, reloading in this game is faster than reloading in any other game I've ever seen.  Seriously, watch some of the CES gameplay, people were reloading their AR's faster than the time between shots on a sniper rifle.   We're actually going to spend way less time out of combat because of this.

Oh, and for the people who ran around with dual frictionless and think they never overheated, remember sabotague spam?    That was 1000% times more flow breaking than reloading could ever be.

Oh, and if all else fails, you can combat pause every few seconds so that you can line up your shots before you fire.  That way, you'll never miss, even if you suck.   

Then whats the point of being able to customize your weapons if your forced to have to change them?
Isnt part of this being Sheppards story being about playing the way you want to play? Well if I like using my AR 90% of the time unless I need one of my heavy weapons, then thats how I should be able to play. And since your able to upgrade your guns stats, (or thats how it sounded anyhow) Whats the point in it, if when all is said and done your still screwed over and have to change guns?

[robedlizard]

Satanicfirewraith wrote...

Soruyao wrote...

You want the most boring way to play possible to be the most effective one?  Nu uh.   If you roll as a soldier you SHOULD be using all of your weapons.  You have five of them.  Maybe being forced to actually use some more of them is a good thing?   Being encouraged to use the best gun for every situation (SG close range, sniper long range, AR midrange, etc) seems like it will make combat more immersive.  If you do that and use your powers effectively, you will never run out of "ammo".    

Also, if you use the same gun for every situation, you will be less effective than if you used your other guns sometimes too, because of the way enemy defenses work.   (Using slow punchy weapons for armor, and fast spammy ones for shields, etc.)   Even if you had infinite ammo, you would still want to switch for those situations, and your gameplay experience would be the same.

Also, from the footage I've seen, reloading in this game is faster than reloading in any other game I've ever seen.  Seriously, watch some of the CES gameplay, people were reloading their AR's faster than the time between shots on a sniper rifle.   We're actually going to spend way less time out of combat because of this.

Oh, and for the people who ran around with dual frictionless and think they never overheated, remember sabotague spam?    That was 1000% times more flow breaking than reloading could ever be.

Oh, and if all else fails, you can combat pause every few seconds so that you can line up your shots before you fire.  That way, you'll never miss, even if you suck.   

Then whats the point of being able to customize your weapons if your forced to have to change them?
Isnt part of this being Sheppards story being about playing the way you want to play? Well if I like using my AR 90% of the time unless I need one of my heavy weapons, then thats how I should be able to play. And since your able to upgrade your guns stats, (or thats how it sounded anyhow) Whats the point in it, if when all is said and done your still screwed over and have to change guns?

wow you pissed at ammo cuz you dont want to change your gun or upgrade anyother gun?

wow. just dont even get ME2

[Soruyao]

Satanicfirewraith wrote...

Then whats the point of being able to customize your weapons if your forced to have to change them?
Isnt part of this being Sheppards story being about playing the way you want to play? Well if I like using my AR 90% of the time unless I need one of my heavy weapons, then thats how I should be able to play. And since your able to upgrade your guns stats, (or thats how it sounded anyhow) Whats the point in it, if when all is said and done your still screwed over and have to change guns?

You do know you can customize all your guns and not just one of them, right?

Here's what I reccomend:  

1. Use your powers as much as possible (adrenaline rush a lot to line up headshots if you're running low)
2. Upgrade the ammo capacity of your AR.  (It's very likely you will be able to do that.)
3. Use the power menu pause to line up shots so you don't miss as much.

From what I've seen of the gameplay so far, if you do even one of those 3 things, you should be able to use just your AR.

But honestly I think you should give the other guns a chance.  Shotguns are almost as effective as ARs from midrange, and they're crazy good up close.    SMGs and machine pistols are probably very similar in feel to an AR, so there's that too.   What is it about the other guns that you hate so much?

[akintu]

Also, the ability to use all guns is something that makes the Soldier class unique. Saying you don't want to use anything but the AR is like a Sentinel refusing to use Tech Armor, or that the only power they want to use is Warp.



Nothing wrong with that, but a Sentinel refusing to make full use of their powers is gimping themselves. There are valid reasons for that. Maybe for roleplay reasons? Maybe for a gameplay experience that is more difficult? Fine. But if that Sentinel player were to complain about being weaker while refusing to make full use of their abilities is absolutely nuts.



If you don't want to use anything but an AR, you need to accept that you are refusing to make full use of your class abilities, the game will be accordingly more difficult, and the threat of running out of AR ammo may be a problem. OR you might consider playing another class and take the AR as a bonus. A Sentinel, for instance, with an AR bonus, might just be able to get by using AR alone and powers.



If you play the Soldier class to the full of its potential, you really shouldn't have problems. But if you refuse to make use of its abilities and skills, accept that you are choosing to make you game more difficult. Maybe you should plan on playing at a lower difficulty level since you seem more interested in the image of your character than anything else.

[Daeion]

robedlizard wrote...

Satanicfirewraith wrote...

Daeion wrote...

DocLasty wrote...
That's the thing, though - there's been nothing to even hint that quantity is going to be a problem. Reloads come regularly enough that you should have a decent supply at all times. On top of that, powers recharge faster and are more powerful than before - even if you do run out, you're hardly defenseless, even if you're a soldier. Some classes, like Adept, even seem capable of going into combat and never firing their weapon once.

There's also nothing to hint at the fact that it won't be an issue.  To me if you are going to add an ammo system it has to be limiting, if you never have to worry about not having enough ammo then what's the point of introducing an ammo system in the first place?

This!

your say doesnt really matter anyways.
the game comes out in within the next week
get over it
and if you really have a problem unlike the majority of people then dont get the game and stick with dragon age origins. then you wont have to deal with ammo. or fuel.

You haven't read anything I posted have you?  I'm fine with them adding in ammo, I love that they added in fuel management.  I've already said multiple times that I'm getting the game and looking forward to it.  My issues are more with ammo being a skill and thinking that's lame.  What I'm saying at this point is that the pro change people seem to think it's ok to tell those who have concerns about the ammo change to shut up because they haven't played the game, by that same arguement the pro change people should also shut up because they ahven't played the game either.

[robedlizard]

ammo and reloading is a generally used throughout the industry



as soon as people see that bioware changed to it they freak out

when has anyone ever said ammo makes me worry and have concerns



ive asid it before



ME1-heat counted up and you had to wait for it to cool and anyone could upgrade so it never had to cool which equals cheapness



ME2- ammo counts down how many shots you have left till over heat and you need to change your thermal clip. reload is faster than cool down and eliminates cheapness



and now that ammo types are included in the powers uses you can change on the fly instead of going through the inventory.



wow

[ibplunderin]

I don't want to read 19 pages to find this though.

Do you have unlimited heatsinks/ammo? (as in after the clip is done and you put in another heatsink. Is there an unlimited amount of heatsinks.)

I don't mind them adding in ammo/heatsinks to make the games shooting feel better, but are you limited in your overall ammo? Am I going to have to be looting peoples corpses for ammo like in every other tps/fps?

Modifié par ibplunderin, 20 janvier 2010 - 11:11 .

[robedlizard]

you dont have an unlimited amount of heat sync. all you have to do will be just to walk over you fallen adversaries and you will pick up their thermal clips..



its cheap to have unlimited ammo

[Gorn Kregore]

Since when did ME1 had a flow in combat? Lol

[Schneidend]

I've come to the conclusion that the detractors of the thermal clip system are just butthurt they won't be able to fire infinitely with Frictionless Materials any more.

[NvVanity]

Just a question about the new ammo mechanic. Is it just fire/cryo/disrupter rounds? Like the hammerhead, snowblind and such will they be incorporated into those rounds when you level up the skill or are they cut out for good?

[robedlizard]

Schneidend wrote...

I've come to the conclusion that the detractors of the thermal clip system are just butthurt they won't be able to fire infinitely with Frictionless Materials any more.

that sums it up

because no one has ever complained about ammo in any video game as much before

[robedlizard]

NvVanity wrote...

Just a question about the new ammo mechanic. Is it just fire/cryo/disrupter rounds? Like the hammerhead, snowblind and such will they be incorporated into those rounds when you level up the skill or are they cut out for good?

only ammo types are
fire- for making everything aflame
cryo- to freeze all
disruptor- to cut through shields

im going to guess that gun upgrades will include ammo incrases and how hard a round hits, which is replacing the hammerhead rounds.

[Daeion]

robedlizard wrote...

ammo and reloading is a generally used throughout the industry

as soon as people see that bioware changed to it they freak out
when has anyone ever said ammo makes me worry and have concerns

ive asid it before

ME1-heat counted up and you had to wait for it to cool and anyone could upgrade so it never had to cool which equals cheapness

ME2- ammo counts down how many shots you have left till over heat and you need to change your thermal clip. reload is faster than cool down and eliminates cheapness

and now that ammo types are included in the powers uses you can change on the fly instead of going through the inventory.

wow

it's used throughout the shooter and action industry, not the RPG industry.

I've said that I agree that the ability to totaly negate overheating in ME was lame, and I'm ok with them adding ehatsinks that you need to swap out in the middle of a battle.  But the idead that a gun can't cool down while out of battle is pretty lame and dumb.  With what I've seen of on the fly ammo changes in the videos I'm ok with that, however I don't think they needed to be made skills.

[robedlizard]

mass effect is a hybrid combining the two industries into one that is epic

doing so is a long and hard process

it is a balancing act

get over that you no long beable to have infinite ammo.
maybe maybe not the ammo type should or shouldnt have been skills.
whats done is done
boarderlands is an fps with some rpg eliments and it uses ammo.
everygame that uses ammo has never gotten the "oh great ammo now!"
ammo is not a problem. its the somple fact that you cant have unlimited shoots are that you are intimitdated by the fact that the action in ME2 has been amptd up by complianing that ammo is lame i dont want to hit a reload button i just want it to cool down.

lazy and cheap.

Modifié par robedlizard, 20 janvier 2010 - 11:37 .

[Daeion]

Schneidend wrote...

I've come to the conclusion that the detractors of the thermal clip system are just butthurt they won't be able to fire infinitely with Frictionless Materials any more.

And your conclusion would be as stupid as you apparently are.  I haven't seen a single person say that they wanted to just press the fire key and be able to go afk for 5 minutes.  Most who are gainst it don't feel it belongs in an RPG or thet have lore issues with the changes.  Others who are against the ammo change see it as a sign that ME2 went from a RPG with good action to a shooter with some RPG thrown in.  No one can say for sure how the system will turn out until we try it on Tuesday.  Until then people are allowed to voice their concerns.  Personally I don't think it was the correct change and this is the first time I've seen an RPG limit base ammo but not specialized ammo however I'm going to wait until I play the game before I say it sucks.

[robedlizard]

AND has any of the reviews said that ammo takes away from ME2 and they should have stuck with the old system?

[Daeion]

robedlizard wrote...

Schneidend wrote...

I've come to the conclusion that the detractors of the thermal clip system are just butthurt they won't be able to fire infinitely with Frictionless Materials any more.

that sums it up

because no one has ever complained about ammo in any video game as much before

because before the ME universe ammo concerns were left to shooter and action games.

[robedlizard]

Daeion wrote...

Schneidend wrote...

I've come to the conclusion that the detractors of the thermal clip system are just butthurt they won't be able to fire infinitely with Frictionless Materials any more.

And your conclusion would be as stupid as you apparently are.  I haven't seen a single person say that they wanted to just press the fire key and be able to go afk for 5 minutes.  Most who are gainst it don't feel it belongs in an RPG or thet have lore issues with the changes.  Others who are against the ammo change see it as a sign that ME2 went from a RPG with good action to a shooter with some RPG thrown in.  No one can say for sure how the system will turn out until we try it on Tuesday.  Until then people are allowed to voice their concerns.  Personally I don't think it was the correct change and this is the first time I've seen an RPG limit base ammo but not specialized ammo however I'm going to wait until I play the game before I say it sucks.

all because of ammo?
all because there are thermal clips now instead of Waiting for the gun to cool

have the reviews said that AMMO takes away from the experience?????

[ibplunderin]

Except that the first one did have infinite ammo, and it was a nice change. My wife loved that she didn't have to go and pick up ammo from corpses or had to reload. Now they are changing that for no reason.

I for one dont' like the change, the combat before was fine. From all i've seen they are changing this from and RPG with some shooter elements into a shooter with some rpg elements. Doesn't matter though I'll try it out first then decide if I want to purchase it.

Modifié par ibplunderin, 20 janvier 2010 - 11:43 .