726 réponses à ce sujet

[robedlizard]

you can keep up with stats, inventory and much complicated system that demanded and give the rpg genre its from

but you cant and or dont want to keep up with ammo..........

Modifié par robedlizard, 20 janvier 2010 - 11:45 .

[Schneidend]

Daeion wrote...
And your conclusion would be as stupid as you apparently are.  I haven't seen a single person say that they wanted to just press the fire key and be able to go afk for 5 minutes.  Most who are gainst it don't feel it belongs in an RPG or thet have lore issues with the changes.  Others who are against the ammo change see it as a sign that ME2 went from a RPG with good action to a shooter with some RPG thrown in.  No one can say for sure how the system will turn out until we try it on Tuesday.  Until then people are allowed to voice their concerns.  Personally I don't think it was the correct change and this is the first time I've seen an RPG limit base ammo but not specialized ammo however I'm going to wait until I play the game before I say it sucks.

Well obviously nobody would say that. It would be a pitiful basis for their argument, so they invent the other attempts at "reasoning." There is no lore issue with the changes, as overheating mechanics are never covered in the Codex. Guns still hold thousands or rounds, and therefore no lore has changed. Those who think ME2 is anything but an attempt at improving over both the shooting and RPG aspects of ME1 are just plain wrong. The talent system is more complex, armor actually does things besides provide you with shields and damage reduction, the shooting is going to be more dynamic and less sescueptible to cheese, etc.

People are certainly allowed to voice their concerns, but it doesn't mean those concerns aren't ridiculous and inane.

[Daeion]

robedlizard wrote...

mass effect is a hybrid combining the two industries into one that is epic

doing so is a long and hard process

it is a balancing act

get over that you no long beable to have infinite ammo.
maybe maybe not the ammo type should or shouldnt have been skills.
whats done is done
boarderlands is an fps with some rpg eliments and it uses ammo.
everygame that uses ammo has never gotten the "oh great ammo now!"
ammo is not a problem. its the somple fact that you cant have unlimited shoots are that you are intimitdated by the fact that the action in ME2 has been amptd up by complianing that ammo is lame i dont want to hit a reload button i just want it to cool down.

lazy and cheap.

Yes, Borderlands is and FPS with RPG elements, it was designed that way.  ME was an RPG with some action and shooter elements, two totally different games.

You're right, there is no chance of the game changing now, that doesn't mean peolpe can't still voice their opinions or thoughts on the upcoming changes.

Oh yes, I'm so intimidated by not having unlimited ammo...oh wait, I really enjoyed the Halo series which had limited ammo and I still play GoW which has unlimited ammo.

[Warlokki]

Personally i'm happy with the change. "Ammo based" allows more flexibility with the weapon desing IMO. More easy to balance... and no more waiting for 5-10 seconds to get back to fighting (i don't change weapons, no point when the Pistol is the best)

[robedlizard]

no ME was supposed to be the middle.



not a rpg with some shooter or a shooter with some rpg



bioware has had a balancing act to do

and i dont see how the change to ammo

cleaning up the inventory system or repacing of compate is going to change that in the end you are role playing your own commander shepard and making these deccesions that made ME1 great

[puggini]

I can't really judge this without having actually played it... I don't see how anyone can.

[Schneidend]

Daeion wrote...

Oh yes, I'm so intimidated by not having unlimited ammo...oh wait, I really enjoyed the Halo series which had limited ammo and I still play GoW which has unlimited ammo.

Then I'm not really certain why you would have a problem with the new system. It's purely a gameplay change. If you have no problem with that gameplay then what exactly is the issue?

[Mainframe79]

Ok, I'm not reading all 20 pages of this, but having skimmed this here's my thoughts. I played this for about 20-30 minutes at CES, and the ammo mechanic really isn't all that bad. I found plenty of ammo in the time I played, but having limited ammo actually made it more tactical and interesting as I was forced to think about what weapon I was using and adjust my tactics accordingly based on distance/weapon strength/ammo remaining.



It added a new layer to the combat which I thought made it more interesting than just equipping an assault rifle and doing spray and pray all over the place.

[Daeion]

robedlizard wrote...

Daeion wrote...

Schneidend wrote...

I've come to the conclusion that the detractors of the thermal clip system are just butthurt they won't be able to fire infinitely with Frictionless Materials any more.

And your conclusion would be as stupid as you apparently are.  I haven't seen a single person say that they wanted to just press the fire key and be able to go afk for 5 minutes.  Most who are gainst it don't feel it belongs in an RPG or thet have lore issues with the changes.  Others who are against the ammo change see it as a sign that ME2 went from a RPG with good action to a shooter with some RPG thrown in.  No one can say for sure how the system will turn out until we try it on Tuesday.  Until then people are allowed to voice their concerns.  Personally I don't think it was the correct change and this is the first time I've seen an RPG limit base ammo but not specialized ammo however I'm going to wait until I play the game before I say it sucks.

all because of ammo?
all because there are thermal clips now instead of Waiting for the gun to cool

have the reviews said that AMMO takes away from the experience?????

I get the feeling that most people are ok with the idea of thermal clips, they aren't, or at least I'm not, ok with the idea that a gun can't cool down without one.  I find it acceptable that to keep going in battle I need to pop in a thermal clip to keep firing.  I don't find it acceptable that I can run out of clips on say my AR, go through all my other weapons and my AR won't have cooled down, even if I run around out of combat for 5 minutes of fly from the citadel to earth my AR apparently can't cool down.

No I haven't read any reviews that say ammo is a problem.  However the revies I have read have only been from people with a few hours of play time and there's usually some sort of a comment about how now that it's a shooter they can finally play the game.  This makes me feel like they would rather be playing CoD 4 and shouldn't be reviewing ME to begin with.

[robedlizard]

Daeion wrote...

robedlizard wrote...

Daeion wrote...

Schneidend wrote...

I've come to the conclusion that the detractors of the thermal clip system are just butthurt they won't be able to fire infinitely with Frictionless Materials any more.

And your conclusion would be as stupid as you apparently are.  I haven't seen a single person say that they wanted to just press the fire key and be able to go afk for 5 minutes.  Most who are gainst it don't feel it belongs in an RPG or thet have lore issues with the changes.  Others who are against the ammo change see it as a sign that ME2 went from a RPG with good action to a shooter with some RPG thrown in.  No one can say for sure how the system will turn out until we try it on Tuesday.  Until then people are allowed to voice their concerns.  Personally I don't think it was the correct change and this is the first time I've seen an RPG limit base ammo but not specialized ammo however I'm going to wait until I play the game before I say it sucks.

all because of ammo?
all because there are thermal clips now instead of Waiting for the gun to cool

have the reviews said that AMMO takes away from the experience?????

I get the feeling that most people are ok with the idea of thermal clips, they aren't, or at least I'm not, ok with the idea that a gun can't cool down without one.  I find it acceptable that to keep going in battle I need to pop in a thermal clip to keep firing.  I don't find it acceptable that I can run out of clips on say my AR, go through all my other weapons and my AR won't have cooled down, even if I run around out of combat for 5 minutes of fly from the citadel to earth my AR apparently can't cool down.

No I haven't read any reviews that say ammo is a problem.  However the revies I have read have only been from people with a few hours of play time and there's usually some sort of a comment about how now that it's a shooter they can finally play the game.  This makes me feel like they would rather be playing CoD 4 and shouldn't be reviewing ME to begin with.

and with that cool down problem being canon there will probly be an explaination in the codex when we all start playing tuesday:)

[mereck7980]

Schneidend wrote...

Daeion wrote...

Oh yes, I'm so intimidated by not having unlimited ammo...oh wait, I really enjoyed the Halo series which had limited ammo and I still play GoW which has unlimited ammo.

Then I'm not really certain why you would have a problem with the new system. It's purely a gameplay change. If you have no problem with that gameplay then what exactly is the issue?

Uhmm........that sounded like sarcasm......

Seriously, none of us have played this game. It is fine to have an opinion, but why don't we all reserve judgment until we have been playing for a few hours?

[Daeion]

robedlizard wrote...

you can keep up with stats, inventory and much complicated system that demanded and give the rpg genre its from

but you cant and or dont want to keep up with ammo..........

Those are things that make an RPG for a lot of people and so that's what they look for, they don't look for having to pick up ammo for things besides specail ammo.  Example, in DA:O anyone could fire a bow and didn't need to worry about arrows, however if they wanted the magical fire or ice arrows, those were limited.

[robedlizard]

and i just thought of reason that might be plausible



so the thermal clip might cool down in temperature, HOWEVER that increase is heat has deminished the integrity of said thermal clip.

just a hypothesis



which also means that shepard is not using quality parts. X[

[robedlizard]

Mainframe79 wrote...

Ok, I'm not reading all 20 pages of this, but having skimmed this here's my thoughts. I played this for about 20-30 minutes at CES, and the ammo mechanic really isn't all that bad. I found plenty of ammo in the time I played, but having limited ammo actually made it more tactical and interesting as I was forced to think about what weapon I was using and adjust my tactics accordingly based on distance/weapon strength/ammo remaining.

It added a new layer to the combat which I thought made it more interesting than just equipping an assault rifle and doing spray and pray all over the place.

a valid point from someone who has played XD

[AdamNW]

Satanicfirewraith wrote...

I mean its not like controling your fire and limiting it to short bursts could prevent you from overheating or nothing in ME 1... Shame the only way to cool a weapon down in ME 2 is to waste a clip and reload it.

...how does that make any sense?

[robedlizard]

until i play the game im just assuming shepard is not using quality parts.

[mereck7980]

Daeion wrote...

robedlizard wrote...

you can keep up with stats, inventory and much complicated system that demanded and give the rpg genre its from

but you cant and or dont want to keep up with ammo..........

Those are things that make an RPG for a lot of people and so that's what they look for, they don't look for having to pick up ammo for things besides specail ammo.  Example, in DA:O anyone could fire a bow and didn't need to worry about arrows, however if they wanted the magical fire or ice arrows, those were limited.

There are multiple precedents for RPGs using an ammo system.  Look at Fallout (the original 1997 isometric masterpiece).  Every gun needed bullets, and the game was designed so that while the ammo wasn't extremely scarce, it also wasn't overly plentiful.  Most cRPG fans would say that game mechanic worked well for the most part.

[Iwillforget]

Don't know if anyone said this however if once you run out of heat sinks and the weapon just defaults to have to cooling down like in ME everything is all right.

[Schneidend]

Daeion wrote...

Those are things that make an RPG for a lot of people and so that's what they look for, they don't look for having to pick up ammo for things besides specail ammo.  Example, in DA:O anyone could fire a bow and didn't need to worry about arrows, however if they wanted the magical fire or ice arrows, those were limited.

Well, I'm pretty sure you just automatically get more thermal clips for killing things, as loot functioned in ME1.

[Daeion]

Schneidend wrote...

Daeion wrote...
And your conclusion would be as stupid as you apparently are.  I haven't seen a single person say that they wanted to just press the fire key and be able to go afk for 5 minutes.  Most who are gainst it don't feel it belongs in an RPG or thet have lore issues with the changes.  Others who are against the ammo change see it as a sign that ME2 went from a RPG with good action to a shooter with some RPG thrown in.  No one can say for sure how the system will turn out until we try it on Tuesday.  Until then people are allowed to voice their concerns.  Personally I don't think it was the correct change and this is the first time I've seen an RPG limit base ammo but not specialized ammo however I'm going to wait until I play the game before I say it sucks.

Well obviously nobody would say that. It would be a pitiful basis for their argument, so they invent the other attempts at "reasoning." There is no lore issue with the changes, as overheating mechanics are never covered in the Codex. Guns still hold thousands or rounds, and therefore no lore has changed. Those who think ME2 is anything but an attempt at improving over both the shooting and RPG aspects of ME1 are just plain wrong. The talent system is more complex, armor actually does things besides provide you with shields and damage reduction, the shooting is going to be more dynamic and less sescueptible to cheese, etc.

People are certainly allowed to voice their concerns, but it doesn't mean those concerns aren't ridiculous and inane.

The typical reason I see mentioned for lore reasons is that in some codex it talks about guns having unlimited ammo.  Now in Mass Effect Revelation they mention that the AR has a clip size of about 4000 rounds but they never mention people having to inject heat sinks.  The other issue for lore is that ME is considered canon and thus since there were no heatsinks people don't see why they are needed now.  There's been no story reason for why people would go from using a gun that cooled itself and the way mods use to having to keep injecting keatsinks and guns never being able to cool down without them.

I meantioned in a different post that I think the big reason people are having an issue with the addition of thermal clips is #1 hasn't been an explination of how prevelant they will be so some people may think they will be running around with their soldier have to melee attack and #2 the vast majority of the marketing has been directed at the "intense shooter gamepley" of ME2, it's mentioned in every video yet there is hardly a mention of anything having to do with the RP side so people feel that the part of the game they care most about was basically put on the back burner.

Peoples concerns are always crazy and inane to those who don't share the concern for w/e reason.

[robedlizard]

Iwillforget wrote...

Don't know if anyone said this however if once you run out of heat sinks and the weapon just defaults to have to cooling down like in ME everything is all right.

yeah that dont happen.
and it they let that happen themn there REALLY wouldnt have been any point in changing.

[akintu]

Daeion wrote...
I get the feeling that most people are ok with the idea of thermal clips, they aren't, or at least I'm not, ok with the idea that a gun can't cool down without one.  I find it acceptable that to keep going in battle I need to pop in a thermal clip to keep firing.  I don't find it acceptable that I can run out of clips on say my AR, go through all my other weapons and my AR won't have cooled down, even if I run around out of combat for 5 minutes of fly from the citadel to earth my AR apparently can't cool down.

No I haven't read any reviews that say ammo is a problem.  However the revies I have read have only been from people with a few hours of play time and there's usually some sort of a comment about how now that it's a shooter they can finally play the game.  This makes me feel like they would rather be playing CoD 4 and shouldn't be reviewing ME to begin with.

Your AR cools down just fine on its own.  It just can't fire a single shot without overheating, perhaps catastrophic overheating, without the coolant provided by the thermal clips.  Quite simple, really.

[Daeion]

robedlizard wrote...

no ME was supposed to be the middle.

not a rpg with some shooter or a shooter with some rpg

bioware has had a balancing act to do
and i dont see how the change to ammo
cleaning up the inventory system or repacing of compate is going to change that in the end you are role playing your own commander shepard and making these deccesions that made ME1 great

One of the taglines for ME was that it was roleplaying perfected, not that it was a balance of rpg and shooter.  Now all we here about is the "intense shooter gameplay."

They didn't clean up the inventory system, they got rid of it, the computer does everything for you, that's the biggest change that upsets me.

Guess what, I take on the role of the rookie in ODST, doesn't make it an RPG.

[robedlizard]

Daeion wrote...

Schneidend wrote...

Daeion wrote...
And your conclusion would be as stupid as you apparently are.  I haven't seen a single person say that they wanted to just press the fire key and be able to go afk for 5 minutes.  Most who are gainst it don't feel it belongs in an RPG or thet have lore issues with the changes.  Others who are against the ammo change see it as a sign that ME2 went from a RPG with good action to a shooter with some RPG thrown in.  No one can say for sure how the system will turn out until we try it on Tuesday.  Until then people are allowed to voice their concerns.  Personally I don't think it was the correct change and this is the first time I've seen an RPG limit base ammo but not specialized ammo however I'm going to wait until I play the game before I say it sucks.

Well obviously nobody would say that. It would be a pitiful basis for their argument, so they invent the other attempts at "reasoning." There is no lore issue with the changes, as overheating mechanics are never covered in the Codex. Guns still hold thousands or rounds, and therefore no lore has changed. Those who think ME2 is anything but an attempt at improving over both the shooting and RPG aspects of ME1 are just plain wrong. The talent system is more complex, armor actually does things besides provide you with shields and damage reduction, the shooting is going to be more dynamic and less sescueptible to cheese, etc.

People are certainly allowed to voice their concerns, but it doesn't mean those concerns aren't ridiculous and inane.

The typical reason I see mentioned for lore reasons is that in some codex it talks about guns having unlimited ammo.  Now in Mass Effect Revelation they mention that the AR has a clip size of about 4000 rounds but they never mention people having to inject heat sinks.  The other issue for lore is that ME is considered canon and thus since there were no heatsinks people don't see why they are needed now.  There's been no story reason for why people would go from using a gun that cooled itself and the way mods use to having to keep injecting keatsinks and guns never being able to cool down without them.

I meantioned in a different post that I think the big reason people are having an issue with the addition of thermal clips is #1 hasn't been an explination of how prevelant they will be so some people may think they will be running around with their soldier have to melee attack and #2 the vast majority of the marketing has been directed at the "intense shooter gamepley" of ME2, it's mentioned in every video yet there is hardly a mention of anything having to do with the RP side so people feel that the part of the game they care most about was basically put on the back burner.

Peoples concerns are always crazy and inane to those who don't share the concern for w/e reason.

ok in marketing you want to show explosions.

none of the character bulding interactive cinematics, WHICH have spoilers.

soooo thats amrketing stratagy. explosions sell the game while in depth character develpment and rpg elements along with the paced up actio in combat makes people fall in love with ME

[Daeion]

Schneidend wrote...

Daeion wrote...

Oh yes, I'm so intimidated by not having unlimited ammo...oh wait, I really enjoyed the Halo series which had limited ammo and I still play GoW which has unlimited ammo.

Then I'm not really certain why you would have a problem with the new system. It's purely a gameplay change. If you have no problem with that gameplay then what exactly is the issue?

If you would read what I've said before I don't care that they added thermal clips.  I just find the idea that the gun never cools down without one to be dumb and not make any sense for this game considering you had to sit and wait for your gun to cool in ME.  I've also said that the issue I really have with ammo is that it's now a skill, not an actual add on and I find the idea that my engie knows how to use cryo and fire rounds but can't figure out how to use phasing rounds to be stupid and the fact that they pass of the soldier being able to use all the ammos to me says they either couldn't or didn't try to come up with better abilities. =