726 réponses à ce sujet

[EminentGeek]

I don't think the new system is dumb. It's just, I liked the system in the first game and don't see why it had to be changed. I guess I will wait and see if I like the new ammo system.

[robedlizard]

Daeion wrote...

robedlizard wrote...

no ME was supposed to be the middle.

not a rpg with some shooter or a shooter with some rpg

bioware has had a balancing act to do
and i dont see how the change to ammo
cleaning up the inventory system or repacing of compate is going to change that in the end you are role playing your own commander shepard and making these deccesions that made ME1 great

One of the taglines for ME was that it was roleplaying perfected, not that it was a balance of rpg and shooter.  Now all we here about is the "intense shooter gameplay."

They didn't clean up the inventory system, they got rid of it, the computer does everything for you, that's the biggest change that upsets me.

Guess what, I take on the role of the rookie in ODST, doesn't make it an RPG.

you can override the auto inventory  didnt you read the blog!!!!

http://blog.bioware.com/

its filled with info.

and you cant make plot changing deccesion with the roockie in ODST

but thats the point of ME
i mean its even in the name Mass Effect
your decesions will ulimatly have a mass effect on the universe of Mass Effect

they are not dumbing down the rpg aspect of the game.

[GrouchoMarxist]

Daeion wrote...

Schneidend wrote...

Daeion wrote...

Oh yes, I'm so intimidated by not having unlimited ammo...oh wait, I really enjoyed the Halo series which had limited ammo and I still play GoW which has unlimited ammo.

Then I'm not really certain why you would have a problem with the new system. It's purely a gameplay change. If you have no problem with that gameplay then what exactly is the issue?

If you would read what I've said before I don't care that they added thermal clips.  I just find the idea that the gun never cools down without one to be dumb and not make any sense for this game considering you had to sit and wait for your gun to cool in ME.  I've also said that the issue I really have with ammo is that it's now a skill, not an actual add on and I find the idea that my engie knows how to use cryo and fire rounds but can't figure out how to use phasing rounds to be stupid and the fact that they pass of the soldier being able to use all the ammos to me says they either couldn't or didn't try to come up with better abilities. =

Your "engie" isn't able to use neither cryo nor fire nor any other kind of special rounds. Unless you're talking of the Infiltrator and got the name wrong.

[robedlizard]

they are focusing on the shooter asspects of the game is becasue some people felt that is was clunky in the first one and they have fixed the passing.

[Daeion]

robedlizard wrote...

Daeion wrote...

robedlizard wrote...

Daeion wrote...

Schneidend wrote...

I've come to the conclusion that the detractors of the thermal clip system are just butthurt they won't be able to fire infinitely with Frictionless Materials any more.

And your conclusion would be as stupid as you apparently are.  I haven't seen a single person say that they wanted to just press the fire key and be able to go afk for 5 minutes.  Most who are gainst it don't feel it belongs in an RPG or thet have lore issues with the changes.  Others who are against the ammo change see it as a sign that ME2 went from a RPG with good action to a shooter with some RPG thrown in.  No one can say for sure how the system will turn out until we try it on Tuesday.  Until then people are allowed to voice their concerns.  Personally I don't think it was the correct change and this is the first time I've seen an RPG limit base ammo but not specialized ammo however I'm going to wait until I play the game before I say it sucks.

all because of ammo?
all because there are thermal clips now instead of Waiting for the gun to cool

have the reviews said that AMMO takes away from the experience?????

I get the feeling that most people are ok with the idea of thermal clips, they aren't, or at least I'm not, ok with the idea that a gun can't cool down without one.  I find it acceptable that to keep going in battle I need to pop in a thermal clip to keep firing.  I don't find it acceptable that I can run out of clips on say my AR, go through all my other weapons and my AR won't have cooled down, even if I run around out of combat for 5 minutes of fly from the citadel to earth my AR apparently can't cool down.

No I haven't read any reviews that say ammo is a problem.  However the revies I have read have only been from people with a few hours of play time and there's usually some sort of a comment about how now that it's a shooter they can finally play the game.  This makes me feel like they would rather be playing CoD 4 and shouldn't be reviewing ME to begin with.

and with that cool down problem being canon there will probly be an explaination in the codex when we all start playing tuesday:)

I'm hoping so and then that would shut everyone that is crying about up.  Until Tuesday though the sky's the limit unless BW comes out and says something about ammo.

[Daeion]

robedlizard wrote...

and i just thought of reason that might be plausible

so the thermal clip might cool down in temperature, HOWEVER that increase is heat has deminished the integrity of said thermal clip.
just a hypothesis

which also means that shepard is not using quality parts. X[

Oh people have come up with pleanty of reasons for the whole thermal clip but those who argue on the bassis of lore won't accept it unless it comes directly from BW.

[robedlizard]

can a developer please clarify the ammo canon please?



its hard to believe Shepard is not using quality parts for his weapons.

[Daeion]

mereck7980 wrote...

Daeion wrote...

robedlizard wrote...

you can keep up with stats, inventory and much complicated system that demanded and give the rpg genre its from

but you cant and or dont want to keep up with ammo..........

Those are things that make an RPG for a lot of people and so that's what they look for, they don't look for having to pick up ammo for things besides specail ammo.  Example, in DA:O anyone could fire a bow and didn't need to worry about arrows, however if they wanted the magical fire or ice arrows, those were limited.

There are multiple precedents for RPGs using an ammo system.  Look at Fallout (the original 1997 isometric masterpiece).  Every gun needed bullets, and the game was designed so that while the ammo wasn't extremely scarce, it also wasn't overly plentiful.  Most cRPG fans would say that game mechanic worked well for the most part.

Never played a single fallout game so I can't speak on it, what other precedents are there?

[Schneidend]

Daeion wrote...


Oh people have come up with pleanty of reasons for the whole thermal clip but those who argue on the bassis of lore won't accept it unless it comes directly from BW.

The thermal clip mechanic doesn't conflict with lore in the slightest, and therefore those people are just being ridiculous.

[Daeion]

Iwillforget wrote...

Don't know if anyone said this however if once you run out of heat sinks and the weapon just defaults to have to cooling down like in ME everything is all right.

From what most of us understand, without a heat sink the gun doesn't cool down.

[Daeion]

robedlizard wrote...

Iwillforget wrote...

Don't know if anyone said this however if once you run out of heat sinks and the weapon just defaults to have to cooling down like in ME everything is all right.

yeah that dont happen.
and it they let that happen themn there REALLY wouldnt have been any point in changing.

I see them adding thermal clips so that in the heat of combat when you don't have time to wait for your weapon
to cool down you through in another thermal clip, but when you are planet hoping or running around a town or w/e for 20 minutes there's no reason your gun shouldn't cool down, that's what doesn't make sense to me.

[akintu]

robedlizard wrote...

can a developer please clarify the ammo canon please?

its hard to believe Shepard is not using quality parts for his weapons.

Liquid cooling.  Each shot evaporates/boils off a portion of the coolant, which is why you have to "reload."  Bioware knows its stuff on Helium3, so I have trouble thinking that they're not aware of its cooling properties.  I keep saying this, and people keep ignoring it and complaining about how they don't understand why their gun doesn't cool down on its own.  I may not be right, but it does make sense, and does respond to the concerns.

[j.eaton]

I love the (lack) of logic these forums and fans have...



"Infinite ammo is cheap..." - after i got the max weapon and made it cheap with frictionless upgrades



"Thermal clips add tension and realism by making me be careful and aim..." - while I duck behind a crate and go from near death to full health in a couple of seconds.



"I can use any armor with my Shepard's and make him look like a walking tank..." - while my companions can run around in a white cat suit and have the same sort of protection.



Look, call it what you want. Like it or not for how the game plays and if you enjoy it. However, you have to be honest and say the world BW created is inconsistent. So my note to BW, a good game never apologies for what it is, a poor game compromises itself to try and appeal to everyone and in the end pleases no one.

[robedlizard]

j.eaton wrote...

I love the (lack) of logic these forums and fans have...

"Infinite ammo is cheap..." - after i got the max weapon and made it cheap with frictionless upgrades

"Thermal clips add tension and realism by making me be careful and aim..." - while I duck behind a crate and go from near death to full health in a couple of seconds.

"I can use any armor with my Shepard's and make him look like a walking tank..." - while my companions can run around in a white cat suit and have the same sort of protection.

Look, call it what you want. Like it or not for how the game plays and if you enjoy it. However, you have to be honest and say the world BW created is inconsistent. So my note to BW, a good game never apologies for what it is, a poor game compromises itself to try and appeal to everyone and in the end pleases no one.

im pleased with ME1 and will be please with ME2.

speak for yourself

these forums are meant to discuss issue, share ideas and debate.
yes it is a gameplay funtion of recharging health and shields in the industry
yey the codex has always made it out that in the furute it could be possible even though mass effect is fiction
bioware's job is to create and have immersive world and universes.

[Onegrayjedi]

Its more amazing that people are complaining about something that they dont know about but beyond that point.....





Second of all, its two years in the future.....technology does improve in 2 years, very possible, however wide-spread use is abit concerning



they guy at CES, thanks for some clarifying, its helps somewhat, but people are just too inconsidorate that BW has amassed several >blank< dollars for the creation of the game

[Daeion]

robedlizard wrote...

Daeion wrote...

Schneidend wrote...

Daeion wrote...
And your conclusion would be as stupid as you apparently are.  I haven't seen a single person say that they wanted to just press the fire key and be able to go afk for 5 minutes.  Most who are gainst it don't feel it belongs in an RPG or thet have lore issues with the changes.  Others who are against the ammo change see it as a sign that ME2 went from a RPG with good action to a shooter with some RPG thrown in.  No one can say for sure how the system will turn out until we try it on Tuesday.  Until then people are allowed to voice their concerns.  Personally I don't think it was the correct change and this is the first time I've seen an RPG limit base ammo but not specialized ammo however I'm going to wait until I play the game before I say it sucks.

Well obviously nobody would say that. It would be a pitiful basis for their argument, so they invent the other attempts at "reasoning." There is no lore issue with the changes, as overheating mechanics are never covered in the Codex. Guns still hold thousands or rounds, and therefore no lore has changed. Those who think ME2 is anything but an attempt at improving over both the shooting and RPG aspects of ME1 are just plain wrong. The talent system is more complex, armor actually does things besides provide you with shields and damage reduction, the shooting is going to be more dynamic and less sescueptible to cheese, etc.

People are certainly allowed to voice their concerns, but it doesn't mean those concerns aren't ridiculous and inane.

The typical reason I see mentioned for lore reasons is that in some codex it talks about guns having unlimited ammo.  Now in Mass Effect Revelation they mention that the AR has a clip size of about 4000 rounds but they never mention people having to inject heat sinks.  The other issue for lore is that ME is considered canon and thus since there were no heatsinks people don't see why they are needed now.  There's been no story reason for why people would go from using a gun that cooled itself and the way mods use to having to keep injecting keatsinks and guns never being able to cool down without them.

I meantioned in a different post that I think the big reason people are having an issue with the addition of thermal clips is #1 hasn't been an explination of how prevelant they will be so some people may think they will be running around with their soldier have to melee attack and #2 the vast majority of the marketing has been directed at the "intense shooter gamepley" of ME2, it's mentioned in every video yet there is hardly a mention of anything having to do with the RP side so people feel that the part of the game they care most about was basically put on the back burner.

Peoples concerns are always crazy and inane to those who don't share the concern for w/e reason.

ok in marketing you want to show explosions.

none of the character bulding interactive cinematics, WHICH have spoilers.

soooo thats amrketing stratagy. explosions sell the game while in depth character develpment and rpg elements along with the paced up actio in combat makes people fall in love with ME

I know explosions sell, I also know that they don't want to spoil story things but when there's little to now talk about the RP aspect of the game and all the focus is on the shooter aspect of the game, people are going to start to wonder, I know I am.  But like I said, I'm still really excited for the game to come out, especially after just watching the new trailer.

[Daeion]

robedlizard wrote...

Daeion wrote...

robedlizard wrote...

no ME was supposed to be the middle.

not a rpg with some shooter or a shooter with some rpg

bioware has had a balancing act to do
and i dont see how the change to ammo
cleaning up the inventory system or repacing of compate is going to change that in the end you are role playing your own commander shepard and making these deccesions that made ME1 great

One of the taglines for ME was that it was roleplaying perfected, not that it was a balance of rpg and shooter.  Now all we here about is the "intense shooter gameplay."

They didn't clean up the inventory system, they got rid of it, the computer does everything for you, that's the biggest change that upsets me.

Guess what, I take on the role of the rookie in ODST, doesn't make it an RPG.

you can override the auto inventory  didnt you read the blog!!!!

http://blog.bioware.com/

its filled with info.

and you cant make plot changing deccesion with the roockie in ODST

but thats the point of ME
i mean its even in the name Mass Effect
your decesions will ulimatly have a mass effect on the universe of Mass Effect

they are not dumbing down the rpg aspect of the game.

I know I can override it, I plan to, I don't think however there should even be an auto inventory in an RPG.

[Daeion]

GrouchoMarxist wrote...

Daeion wrote...

Schneidend wrote...

Daeion wrote...

Oh yes, I'm so intimidated by not having unlimited ammo...oh wait, I really enjoyed the Halo series which had limited ammo and I still play GoW which has unlimited ammo.

Then I'm not really certain why you would have a problem with the new system. It's purely a gameplay change. If you have no problem with that gameplay then what exactly is the issue?

If you would read what I've said before I don't care that they added thermal clips.  I just find the idea that the gun never cools down without one to be dumb and not make any sense for this game considering you had to sit and wait for your gun to cool in ME.  I've also said that the issue I really have with ammo is that it's now a skill, not an actual add on and I find the idea that my engie knows how to use cryo and fire rounds but can't figure out how to use phasing rounds to be stupid and the fact that they pass of the soldier being able to use all the ammos to me says they either couldn't or didn't try to come up with better abilities. =

Your "engie" isn't able to use neither cryo nor fire nor any other kind of special rounds. Unless you're talking of the Infiltrator and got the name wrong.

I was confusing cryo round with cryo blast, but yes infiltrator still works for this.

[Daeion]

Schneidend wrote...

Daeion wrote...


Oh people have come up with pleanty of reasons for the whole thermal clip but those who argue on the bassis of lore won't accept it unless it comes directly from BW.

The thermal clip mechanic doesn't conflict with lore in the slightest, and therefore those people are just being ridiculous.

It's never mentioned in lore before and wasn't in the alst game, that's why people say int conflicts.

[Daeion]

alex_ladik wrote...

robedlizard wrote...

can a developer please clarify the ammo canon please?

its hard to believe Shepard is not using quality parts for his weapons.

Liquid cooling.  Each shot evaporates/boils off a portion of the coolant, which is why you have to "reload."  Bioware knows its stuff on Helium3, so I have trouble thinking that they're not aware of its cooling properties.  I keep saying this, and people keep ignoring it and complaining about how they don't understand why their gun doesn't cool down on its own.  I may not be right, but it does make sense, and does respond to the concerns.

Even with a liquid cooling system your weapon would eventually cool down on it's own.

Modifié par Daeion, 21 janvier 2010 - 04:31 .

[Murmillos]

robedlizard wrote...

can a developer please clarify the ammo canon please?

its hard to believe Shepard is not using quality parts for his weapons.

A developer will confirm it.. on the 26th, via a in game codex.

[Schneidend]

Daeion wrote...

It's never mentioned in lore before and wasn't in the alst game, that's why people say int conflicts.

Passive cooling is never mentioned in the lore, either. The codex does not discuss the heat mechanics of weaponry at all, and therefore there is no lore to conflict with. This is purely a gameplay mechanic retcon and nothing more.

[Murmillos]

Daeion wrote...

alex_ladik wrote...

robedlizard wrote...

can a developer please clarify the ammo canon please?

its hard to believe Shepard is not using quality parts for his weapons.

Liquid cooling.  Each shot evaporates/boils off a portion of the coolant, which is why you have to "reload."  Bioware knows its stuff on Helium3, so I have trouble thinking that they're not aware of its cooling properties.  I keep saying this, and people keep ignoring it and complaining about how they don't understand why their gun doesn't cool down on its own.  I may not be right, but it does make sense, and does respond to the concerns.

Even with a liquid cooling system your weapon would eventually cool down on it's own.

No.... because with the helium3 providing the cooling, the weapon never gets hot in the first place.  The helium instantly keeps the weapon cool from any heat build up after every shot.  Thus, no passive cooling is ever needed, as you the weapon is already cooled down - never hot.  As a safety feature, the weapons will not fire unless they are filled with the cooling liquid.

Now, we don't know if this is the actual lore - but its one suggestion that fits everything.

Modifié par Murmillos, 21 janvier 2010 - 05:11 .

[Murmillos]

Schneidend wrote...

Daeion wrote...

It's never mentioned in lore before and wasn't in the alst game, that's why people say int conflicts.

Passive cooling is never mentioned in the lore, either. The codex does not discuss the heat mechanics of weaponry at all, and therefore there is no lore to conflict with. This is purely a gameplay mechanic retcon and nothing more.

Wait what?  You can retcon game play mechanics?  Seriously?
/sarcasm

Modifié par Murmillos, 21 janvier 2010 - 05:13 .

[Schneidend]

Well, apparently, as Bioware just did it ~months ago.