726 réponses à ce sujet

[RogueAI]

I do. We all know why it was done (because of the 12 year old shooter fanbase). I guess some people would rather be delusional than accept the truth.

Oh, well...

[DocLasty]

RogueAI wrote...

I do. We all know why it was done (because of the 12 year old shooter fanbase). I guess some people would rather be delusional than accept the truth.

Oh, well...

And some people like to make stupid generalizations without any real basis or backing. People are funny like that.

[Soruyao]

I'm starting to think the best possible explanation is that a new type of omni-tool upgrade allowed any user to spam sabotage repeatedly.

If that happened, then the old kind of gun would be completely useless and obsolete almost instantly (Because omnitool upgrades are just information and some basic parts.)

The old heat sinks had a design flaw that allowed them to be hacked into overheating themselves and thus needed to be replaced. The replacements were a new kind of disposable heating system that lacked the potential for engineers to completely shut them down, but they also had the benefit of allowing the guns to do more damage and spend less time waiting to cool down.  Because the cooling unit had to be completely removed to accomodate the heat sink system, passive cooling was impossible. (This has the benefit of explaining both the abscence of sabotage and the heat sinks at the same time!    )

Anyway, people who say they don't like this because of lore lack the creativity to understand that in a sci-fi universe, almost any change can be explained in one way or another. This is one of the easiest sci-fi technology issues I've ever seen people be confused about.

Modifié par Soruyao, 21 janvier 2010 - 09:16 .

[Arrtis]

I still call for manual cooling when your not fighting...just instantly give back 1 thermal clips worth of ammo.

[Soruyao]

Arrtis wrote...

I still call for manual cooling when your not fighting...just instantly give back 1 thermal clips worth of ammo.

If you aim badly enough that you run out of ammo with your main gun, you deserve to have to switch.   Why is it that death has to be the only way to penalize players for playing badly?

If it's a huge problem switch to easy mode so you can kill stuff with less bullets.

[Arrtis]

Soruyao wrote...

Arrtis wrote...

I still call for manual cooling when your not fighting...just instantly give back 1 thermal clips worth of ammo.

If you aim badly enough that you run out of ammo with your main gun, you deserve to have to switch.   Why is it that death has to be the only way to penalize players for playing badly?

If it's a huge problem switch to easy mode so you can kill stuff with less bullets.

As i said before...i probably wont be able to play soldier on the harddest mode*would get too annoyed with it*
Thus reducing the amount i can replay the game=bad
penalizing me through replayablility seems to be a high price to pay
*who says ammo restrictions are the onyl way to challenge a person?=
from what i can tell if they add more enemy biotics it would make the game a lot harder.
i find length and replayability to be just as important as how fun the game is.
besides penalty for skill isnt what RPGs do that sounds more like what shooters do rawr dang shooters ruining parts of my game*

Modifié par Arrtis, 21 janvier 2010 - 09:56 .

[Soruyao]

Arrtis wrote...

Soruyao wrote...

Arrtis wrote...

I still call for manual cooling when your not fighting...just instantly give back 1 thermal clips worth of ammo.

If you aim badly enough that you run out of ammo with your main gun, you deserve to have to switch.   Why is it that death has to be the only way to penalize players for playing badly?

If it's a huge problem switch to easy mode so you can kill stuff with less bullets.

As i said before...i probably wont be able to play soldier on the harddest mode*would get too annoyed with it*
Thus reducing the amount i can replay the game=bad
penalizing me through replayablility seems to be a high price to pay
*who says ammo restrictions are the onyl way to challenge a person?=
from what i can tell if they add more enemy biotics it would make the game a lot harder.
i find length and replayability to be just as important as how fun the game is.
besides penalty for skill isnt what RPGs do that sounds more like what shooters do rawr dang shooters ruining parts of my game*

I think you might be selling yourself short.  How many games have you played that have an ammo mechanic?

Maybe you'll suprise yourself and after running out of ammo once or twice, you'll adapt and start having fun with it.  Don't sell yourself short.   We all improve when we put our minds on learning and practice. 

Also, I have to ask, why do you have to play on the hardest difficulty mode?  It kind of sounds like you're complaining that hard mode looks hard.   This confuses me.  Harder difficulties are actually supposed to be more difficult.   (ME1 did NOT accomplish that at all.  Insanity mode was just slow, it wasn't harder.)

Also:  You can pause the game during combat to aim at someone.  If you do this, you will likely rarely miss.   Why not do this when you run low?

[Arrtis]

ERM i like using one weapon i know about changing weapons

i do not find that fun

ammo restrictions to the point where i will be forced to use a weapon i dont want to a great deal of the time is not what i like

not because i cant shoot

but because they dont let you have enough bullets

as a vanguard i can use one weap cause i have powers to fall back on

as a soldier guns are your only option and i would like to use one.

[Soruyao]

-edit- sorry for the double post, I wish I knew how to delete my posts when this happens.

Modifié par Soruyao, 21 janvier 2010 - 10:14 .

[Soruyao]

besides penalty for skill isnt what RPGs do that sounds more like what shooters do rawr dang shooters ruining parts of my game*

I pose to you several questions in the form of a flowchart.

1. What is the main way you would like to differentiate different levels of difficulty from each other?
2. Would these changes challenge your skills more on harder difficulties?
3. IF yes, looking at the part you said that I just quoted, is this something an rpg should do, or a shooter?  If no, move to question 4.
4. Have your changes really changed the difficulty of the gameplay?  If no, return to question 1.

Arrtis wrote...

ERM i like using one weapon i know about changing weapons
i do not find that fun
ammo restrictions to the point where i will be forced to use a weapon i dont want to a great deal of the time is not what i like
not because i cant shoot
but because they dont let you have enough bullets
as a vanguard i can use one weap cause i have powers to fall back on
as a soldier guns are your only option and i would like to use one.

How do you know you don't have enough bullets?  Maybe if you aim well (or pause aim) you won't have to switch out from your AR much at all.   I'd wager that you can upgrade how much ammo the thing can hold (in exchange for it doing slightly less damage or being slightly less accurate I'd assume).

Also, as a soldier, you do have adrenaline rush, which you can use to slow down time and make sure that every single one of your bullets hits something.

One more thing:  You have squadmates.  If for some reason you're running low on ammo, just spam concussive shot and let them do the majority of the damage for awhile.  They will most likely have infinite ammo.   If you have the right squadmates for the job, you should be able to lay low and use their powers for awhile until you have more.

-edit-   Refined the flowchart.

Modifié par Soruyao, 21 janvier 2010 - 10:20 .

[Tony_Knightcrawler]

I think some kind of change was required. This might make the combat better, but I think trying to explain it in the continuity is gonna suck. I mean, why do they throw the heat sinks away? Why not rotate them in and out of the gun? They'll cool down eventually, you know. And I really hope guns cool down on their own if you don't use them for a while, because otherwise that doesn't make any sense at all.

[Arrtis]

Seen vids of ammo running out and i am taking account for aiming very well.I do doubt aiming well with a soldier and only using 1 weapon most of the time is possible on the harddest mode*assuming they increases defenses/life AI or amount of clips*

[Soruyao]

Tony_Knightcrawler wrote...

I think some kind of change was required. This might make the combat better, but I think trying to explain it in the continuity is gonna suck. I mean, why do they throw the heat sinks away? Why not rotate them in and out of the gun? They'll cool down eventually, you know. And I really hope guns cool down on their own if you don't use them for a while, because otherwise that doesn't make any sense at all.

That's easy to explain.  Here's 2 options:
1. The heat sink melts/breaks:  Melted or broken things get discarded.
2. It's actually some sort of liquid coolant which is depleted as heat is applied.  What is discarded in this case are empty cases.

Those are two perfectly valid sci-fi explanations that would completely explain the way it works now.

Seen vids of ammo running out and i am taking account for aiming very
well.I do doubt aiming well with a soldier and only using 1 weapon most
of the time is possible on the harddest mode*assuming they increases
defenses/life AI or amount of clips*

They said that they were mostly increasing the number and AI ferocity of the enemies you face.  You will likely be killing even more things on the harder difficulties in order to stay alive, which means you will have access to more heat sinks, assuming you don't die.

[Sirwootalot67]

I playtested the game back in november, and though there was one specific thing extremely wrong with the gameplay mechanics at that point that everyone agreed on (can't be specific due to the NDA), I actually really liked the new disposable heatsink method. When you got past level 45 or so in mass effect 1, you could basically hold down the trigger on your specter assault rifle and murder a whole room full of anything - I imagine this'll fix that rather nicely.

How good is the game? I got paid 60 bucks for the playtest, which I *immediately* spent on pre-ordering the PC collector's edition. :3

Modifié par Sirwootalot67, 21 janvier 2010 - 11:15 .

[Soruyao]

Sirwootalot67 wrote...

I playtested the game back in november, and though there was one specific thing extremely wrong with the gameplay mechanics at that point that everyone agreed on (can't be specific due to the NDA), I actually really liked the new disposable heatsink method. When you got past level 45 or so in mass effect 1, you could basically hold down the trigger on your specter assault rifle and murder a whole room full of anything - I imagine this'll fix that rather nicely.

How good is the game? I got paid 60 bucks for the playtest, which I *immediately* spent on pre-ordering the PC collector's edition. :3

That's really interesting, and I am incredibly curious about what that gameplay flaw was.   Is the NDA really in effect about combat gameplay features still?  I am suprised by that with all the videos still around.   When does this NDA lift, and can you send me a PM with what it was when it does? X3

Do you think they fixed whatever it was since then? =o

[Satanicfirewraith]

alex_ladik wrote...

Daeion wrote...
I get the feeling that most people are ok with the idea of thermal clips, they aren't, or at least I'm not, ok with the idea that a gun can't cool down without one.  I find it acceptable that to keep going in battle I need to pop in a thermal clip to keep firing.  I don't find it acceptable that I can run out of clips on say my AR, go through all my other weapons and my AR won't have cooled down, even if I run around out of combat for 5 minutes of fly from the citadel to earth my AR apparently can't cool down.

No I haven't read any reviews that say ammo is a problem.  However the revies I have read have only been from people with a few hours of play time and there's usually some sort of a comment about how now that it's a shooter they can finally play the game.  This makes me feel like they would rather be playing CoD 4 and shouldn't be reviewing ME to begin with.

Your AR cools down just fine on its own.  It just can't fire a single shot without overheating, perhaps catastrophic overheating, without the coolant provided by the thermal clips.  Quite simple, really.

And you sir would be wrong.
The game auto switches your weapons when you run out of clips and reach maximum heat level.

[Murmillos]

Satanicfirewraith wrote...

alex_ladik wrote...

Your AR cools down just fine on its own.  It just can't fire a single shot without overheating, perhaps catastrophic overheating, without the coolant provided by the thermal clips.  Quite simple, really.

And you sir would be wrong.
The game auto switches your weapons when you run out of clips and reach maximum heat level.

God.. just stop posting.. do you even know what they are talking about?  Holy christ.  How much lower can you go in your lack of forethought and understanding?

They are talking about the lore - the reason why weapons don't over heat, can't fire with out thermal clips.  Not actual game play mechanics.

I beginning to belive thinking is too hard of a concept for you.

Modifié par Murmillos, 21 janvier 2010 - 02:14 .

[akintu]

Satanicfirewraith wrote...

alex_ladik wrote...
Your AR cools down just fine on its own.  It just can't fire a single shot without overheating, perhaps catastrophic overheating, without the coolant provided by the thermal clips.  Quite simple, really.

And you sir would be wrong.
The game auto switches your weapons when you run out of clips and reach maximum heat level.

This in no way responds to my point.  I'm discussing lore, not gameplay mechanics.
Soruyao put together an outstanding explanation on the math involved: http://rhue.blogspot...mmo-part-1.html

The idea is that the weapons now, without the active cooling system, would essentially blow up in your face after 1 shot.  The active cooling system allows them to fire continually for multiple shots, but the coolant/heatsink must be replaced after 40 rounds, for an AR for example.  As a safety mechanism, the gun will not allow itself to be fired without a thermal clip, because it would destroy itself, and quite possibly kill the shooter, you.

So they are not retaining heat.  If you fire 35 rounds, then your coolant has only enough for 5 more rounds before needing to be refilled.  This is not because your gun is still hot hours later.  It is because you have depleted 90% of the coolant, leaving only enough for 5 more shots before the safety shutdown cuts in.

Hope that makes sense.  I'm still responding because you seem genuinely confused, and I feel like it would be helpful if you would ask questions about what you don't understand.

[wikkedjoker]

Hum, I think its more a case of, IF you over heat it, you can swap, but if you don't, say like you wouldn't in ME 1 if you were smart, than you wont have a problem. Maybe there is a build up over time, but it would make since to have a bit of both worlds.

[Satanicfirewraith]

wikkedjoker wrote...

Hum, I think its more a case of, IF you over heat it, you can swap, but if you don't, say like you wouldn't in ME 1 if you were smart, than you wont have a problem. Maybe there is a build up over time, but it would make since to have a bit of both worlds.

No its nothing more then a gussied up ammo system.

The weapons DO NOT cool down themselves. period.
The only way the weapons cooldown now is if you "reload" them.

I mean god forbid they can travel millions of light years in seconds, can bend space with their minds, even bringing a person back from the dead, yet can no longer make a weapon that can cool it self down by itself.

Modifié par Satanicfirewraith, 21 janvier 2010 - 02:47 .

[Daeion]

Schneidend wrote...

Daeion wrote...

It's never mentioned in lore before and wasn't in the alst game, that's why people say int conflicts.

Passive cooling is never mentioned in the lore, either. The codex does not discuss the heat mechanics of weaponry at all, and therefore there is no lore to conflict with. This is purely a gameplay mechanic retcon and nothing more.

Passive cooling is a part of the first game which is considered canon, therefore it is in the lore.

[Daeion]

RogueAI wrote...

I do. We all know why it was done (because of the 12 year old shooter fanbase). I guess some people would rather be delusional than accept the truth.

Oh, well...

Come on now, lets not blame one side or the other or call people names, that doesn't acomplish anything and doesn't even make for a good arguement.

[Lancer24]

i agree i want to play a sci-fi epic not a ammo collector simulator.

[Daeion]

DocLasty wrote...

RogueAI wrote...

I do. We all know why it was done (because of the 12 year old shooter fanbase). I guess some people would rather be delusional than accept the truth.

Oh, well...

And some people like to make stupid generalizations without any real basis or backing. People are funny like that.

Both sides are doing it, granted he shouldn't have done it, but lets not pretend only one side is doing it.