726 réponses à ce sujet

[CoolbeansMcGee]

It's incredibly stupid. WHY would they put this in? I can't think of anyone who has ever said you know what the Mass Effect series needs? Ammo. All it does is detract, and after a fight you have to look for little grey tubes on the grey floors for 5 minutes.



Also, why ****-foot around it and say they are "thermal-cooling clips." What exactly is the intent with that explanation? We arent 5 year old retards, we know it's ammo, no matter how you try to justify it there is no difference between what this is and ammo clips.

[manyfistss]

CoolbeansMcGee wrote...

It's incredibly stupid. WHY would they put this in? I can't think of anyone who has ever said you know what the Mass Effect series needs? Ammo. All it does is detract, and after a fight you have to look for little grey tubes on the grey floors for 5 minutes.

Also, why ****-foot around it and say they are "thermal-cooling clips." What exactly is the intent with that explanation? We arent 5 year old retards, we know it's ammo, no matter how you try to justify it there is no difference between what this is and ammo clips.

Streamline combat, it flows a lot better now instead of waiting for 10s and getting shot at you can unload your clip put a new one in and start firing in a second. Even a hybrid system wouldn't of been streamlined as this, which is a good thing because ME1 combat blew. 

[Dethateer]

CoolbeansMcGee wrote...

It's incredibly stupid. WHY would they put this in? I can't think of anyone who has ever said you know what the Mass Effect series needs? Ammo. All it does is detract, and after a fight you have to look for little grey tubes on the grey floors for 5 minutes.

Also, why ****-foot around it and say they are "thermal-cooling clips." What exactly is the intent with that explanation? We arent 5 year old retards, we know it's ammo, no matter how you try to justify it there is no difference between what this is and ammo clips.

Because it beats what you could do one fith through the game with some half-decent weapon mods and incendiary ammo in ME1.

[manyfistss]

pgriff46 wrote...

Not loving the new ammo system at all. Makes the shotgun and pistols completely undesirable.

Shotguns I agree, they suck. Pistols on the other hand rock, I got a hand canon, hid behind cover wait for a perfect moment and BAM headshot! Blows off their heads. 

[Mister Mage]

[quote]CoolbeansMcGee wrote...

It's incredibly stupid. WHY would they put this in? I can't think of anyone who has ever said you know what the Mass Effect series needs? Ammo. All it does is detract, and after a fight you have to look for little grey tubes on the grey floors for 5 minutes. ]/quote]
Then you missed me.  I found Mass Effect's combat to be amazingly boring.  Slap on Frictionless Materials, and you don't have to think about your shots.  At all.  Just spray spray spray in the general direction of bad guys.  No thought, no tactics, and that's what I thought RPG fans wanted to get rid of.

[quote]Also, why ****-foot around it and say they are "thermal-cooling clips." What exactly is the intent with that explanation? We arent 5 year old retards, we know it's ammo, no matter how you try to justify it there is no difference between what this is and ammo clips. [/quote]
You didn't read the codex.  Guns in Mass Effect don't work the same way ours do.

[Releeshahn]

i agree with this thread, i posted in another one, possibly in error.. oh well. yeah wtf? it's completely ruined one of the aspects of the mass effect universe, instead of thousands and thousands of rounds from a single clip of solid metal, as stated in the first game, where the ammo is shaved off and flung out at incredible speeds... now i have the same guns as any ol' shooter. fire 25 rounds. reload. fire 25 rounds. reload. heat management was part of the MAGIC! fire 5 rounds, wait, fire 10 rounds, wait, fire 5 rounds, wait. can't overcome their shields? fire all 639 rounds possible from point-blank range until the weapon is smoking and the paint is peeling from the heat of overloading the darn thing, but hey, one boss down, heat *managed*. those that thought the heat management was stupid obviously didn't have too much fun with it, but i thought it was good. better than the "ammo" we have now. heat management was essential at higher difficulty levels. now i'm forced to switch weapons when i run out of clips for one gun. and i hate, HATE shotguns.

[manyfistss]

Releeshahn wrote...

i agree with this thread, i posted in another one, possibly in error.. oh well. yeah wtf? it's completely ruined one of the aspects of the mass effect universe, instead of thousands and thousands of rounds from a single clip of solid metal, as stated in the first game, where the ammo is shaved off and flung out at incredible speeds... now i have the same guns as any ol' shooter. fire 25 rounds. reload. fire 25 rounds. reload. heat management was part of the MAGIC! fire 5 rounds, wait, fire 10 rounds, wait, fire 5 rounds, wait. can't overcome their shields? fire all 639 rounds possible from point-blank range until the weapon is smoking and the paint is peeling from the heat of overloading the darn thing, but hey, one boss down, heat *managed*. those that thought the heat management was stupid obviously didn't have too much fun with it, but i thought it was good. better than the "ammo" we have now. heat management was essential at higher difficulty levels. now i'm forced to switch weapons when i run out of clips for one gun. and i hate, HATE shotguns.

Aim for the head, that always works. 

[Dethateer]

Releeshahn wrote...
those that thought the heat management was stupid obviously didn't have too much fun with it, but i thought it was good.

Right, having the ability to use the AR as a pinpoint-accurate bullet hose that never overheated less than a quarter into the game was awesome.

[akintu]

The heavy pistol is exceptionally powerful. Realistically, if you believe it should have unlimited ammo, then you are also calling for it to be reduced in power. Myself, I'd rather it have the power, and just watch my ammo. I mean, basically, I'm at threat of running out of pistol ammo during a single battle. I find ammo immediately after and during the battle. I have yet to leave a battle without replenishing 70% of the ammo I spent, and its usually more.



The pistol is meant to be a heavy target killer. You have powers and an SMG for weaker enemies. When something big comes out, whip out your pistol and unload. Even late in the game, with a massively upgraded SMG, I still use my heavy pistol for hard targets and bosses. Its crazy accurate, so headshots are easy to get and work great.



It is the same with every weapon, adding unlimited ammo would require rebalancing the weapons, and that rebalancing would be a bad thing. Seriously guys, I absolutely SUCK at console based shooters, and I've had no problems with ammo or the shooter mechanics in this game.

[theczaroftsars]

No overheating is a good thing. In game lore xplains how people realized that having clips will mean no overheating, meanig more enmies dead in a shorter time. How is it stupid. There is ammo everywhere and it is very hard to run out too.

[Dethateer]

There's also the not at all negligable bonus of no longer getting hit with Sabotage while you're happily powering through a horde of Geth.

[Releeshahn]

yah but not exactly the point, it's not heat management, it's 'reloading when empty'. i had an idea about 3 minutes into the game, goes like this: a constant buildup of heat as in the original mass effect, but the ability to eject a heat clip to expel the heat and keep firing, but only having a limited number of heat clips (like medigel) before standard heat management can be used. sure, the heat buildup would need some tweaking and balance, but it wouldn't feel like ammo. "ammo" is a term not really used in mass effect, it just doesn't apply to these kinds of weapons. part of the universe.



some have called this a hybrid option.



still get 15 shots with a pistol, 30 with a sniper rifle, etc, but it build heat and builds heat and UH-OH, eject a clip OR wait for it to cool off, the player's *choice*. choice would have been good. i like choosing. i don't like having to use a gun i don't like because a heat clip gives me 3 rounds for my pistol, and then i'm out again.

[Releeshahn]

...i suppose that could also have been fixed if the clips had been universal, which they're not. use all the clips from one gun and-- what's this? i still have a full ammo bag for my other guns.



pistol empty, 13 "rounds" in the AR, zero shots left with the sniper rifle, but my shotgun still has heat clips to burn. is that a pun? i can't have "ammo" for every gun, but allocated to the ones i use the most? y'know? a common collection of heat clips?



they sure all look the same when they're laying on the ground

[Dizzy473]

I like the new "ammo" system, maybe that places me in the minority but so be it.



While the ME1 "unlimited ammo - manage the heat" sytem worked it got to be a tad overpowered with a high level character. Take the Pinnacle Station DLC as an example, in the simulation where you have to survive as long as possible I got bored after about 20 minutes and spent the next 10 minutes trying to die. Point at place where bad guys would pop from behind building/cover, hold down fire button, rinse and repeat.



Some posts say learn to aim, pick your shots, switch weapons, etc. All true but the main thing to remember, this is Mass Effect 2 not Mass Effect 1. It's a totally different game using the same universe, comparing what we have with what we had is meaningless now, save it for the ME3 forums when they pop up if you feel that strongly. I'll be the one suggesting they keep the "ammo" system however.

[Dethateer]

Releeshahn wrote...

...i suppose that could also have
been fixed if the clips had been universal, which they're not. use all
the clips from one gun and-- what's this? i still have a full ammo bag
for my other guns.

pistol empty, 13 "rounds" in the AR, zero
shots left with the sniper rifle, but my shotgun still has heat clips
to burn. is that a pun? i can't have "ammo" for every gun, but
allocated to the ones i use the most? y'know? a common collection of
heat clips?

they sure all look the same when they're laying on the ground

That's a gameplay mechanic. Otherwise you'd end up with Deus Ex 2-like situations *cough*final level*cough* when you had very little ammo, and there was none to be found on the whole ****ing island.

Modifié par Dethateer, 28 janvier 2010 - 04:17 .

[Releeshahn]

i just think that heat management with the ability to eject a clip and keep going until it overheats or i run out of omnigel or medigel like clips would have been a little more mass-effectish, keeping the same number of rounds until overheat (30 until safely eject clip #1 of the 6 i have, 45 and it overheats and i have to wait) could be a "fix" for that. ahhh well, i'm done ****ing. i'll play it either way. in fact, i'm going to alt-tab back into the game and stay off the threads for a day or so.

[RighteousRage]

Why is everyone pretending you had to wait for overheated weapons in the first game? Basically you just turn overkill or marksman on and even with two rail extensions VII you still usually had enough juice to kill your enemies before your weapon overheated - after the first 30 minutes of the game, at least. Or are you guys the ones that put 3 points into shotgun/sniper rifle and then put high explosive X ammo in and wondered why it didn't work?

[Pythonicus]

Releeshahn wrote...

...i suppose that could also have been fixed if the clips had been universal, which they're not. use all the clips from one gun and-- what's this? i still have a full ammo bag for my other guns.

pistol empty, 13 "rounds" in the AR, zero shots left with the sniper rifle, but my shotgun still has heat clips to burn. is that a pun? i can't have "ammo" for every gun, but allocated to the ones i use the most? y'know? a common collection of heat clips?

they sure all look the same when they're laying on the ground

QFT
This is what is bothering me the most. If I want my infiltrator to make all of his kills with a sniper rifle I should be able to but instead I get to make a few kills that way then have to charge into the fray with a pistol just hoping to find a few more shots for the rifle. Universal clips would have solved this completely and let you make really tactical decisions about how to play the game.

[Destructo-Bot]

I didn't comment until the game was released in order to give it a fair shake. I've played with the new system and I HATE it. Any changes should have been to a hybrid system as outlined in this thread already.

Lore-wise it makes no sense, tactically it makes no sense (what good is firing faster if you have nothing left to fire?), it's not fun to be forced away from your preferred weapon, scrounging ammo after battle is not fun, and a hundred other reasons.

If some of you have issue with Frictionless Materials X and overkill then that requires tweaking of items... not a complete rehaul of the entire mechanic!

Modifié par Destructo-Bot, 28 janvier 2010 - 05:54 .

[akintu]

Pythonicus wrote...
QFT
This is what is bothering me the most. If I want my infiltrator to make all of his kills with a sniper rifle I should be able to but instead I get to make a few kills that way then have to charge into the fray with a pistol just hoping to find a few more shots for the rifle. Universal clips would have solved this completely and let you make really tactical decisions about how to play the game.

So a Sentinel should be able to play the game without using biotics if they so choose?  Or an Engineer without using their drone or hacking?  Or An Adept without Singularity?

Weapons are simply another power available.  I actually believe it is entirely possible to play through as an infiltrator using only the SR, but it would be dramatically more difficult than using the full range of abilities and weapons available to you.  Listen to yourself.  You are complaining because the game is more difficult when you refuse to make full use of your skills, and trying to pass it off as not being able to play the way you want.

Guess what, it was the same in ME1.  Try playing an infiltrator that uses exclusively the SR.  No immunity, no tech skills, nada.  You've gimped your character, but it is still doable.  At least at low difficulty levels.  In ME2, it is equally possible to do this, but you will have gimped your character and missed out on the true pleasure of combat in the game.  Stop the whining about not being able to play how you want.  You can.  But you have zero right to complain about a character you have willingly gimped being less powerful than a character that makes full use of his abilities.

[StaticSilence]

I thought the overheating and shots per second was a much better game mechanic- had a much more futuristic feel to it and it was relatively unique to Mass Effect. Ammo clips just feel like a useless step backward.



And let's think about the "future" for a second. What's more advanced? A gun that has a seemingly endless amount of ammo (or at least a very large core of material to shear off microrounds from) and all you have to do is manage your heat? Or a gun that relies on having another component inserted into it (a thermal clip AKA a magazine) which has been around since oh, say, the 1930s.



Which would you rather take into combat? yea, thought so...

[manyfistss]

StaticSilence wrote...

I thought the overheating and shots per second was a much better game mechanic- had a much more futuristic feel to it and it was relatively unique to Mass Effect. Ammo clips just feel like a useless step backward.

And let's think about the "future" for a second. What's more advanced? A gun that has a seemingly endless amount of ammo (or at least a very large core of material to shear off microrounds from) and all you have to do is manage your heat? Or a gun that relies on having another component inserted into it (a thermal clip AKA a magazine) which has been around since oh, say, the 1930s.

Which would you rather take into combat? yea, thought so...

Shields and Armor have improved to the point where the original mass acc. weapons would be useless, as it says in lore whom ever shoots the most rounds wins. Thermal clips are the answer, they allow more rounds to be fired off and allow more powerful weapons to punch through armor and shields that extra heat can't be vented or it would fry the systems. Thermal clips take that heat and absorb it more efficiently, allowing the extra punch and allowing more rounds to fly. As for the limit # of clips each guns has, that's more mechanics as with not having total universal clips (i.e all weapons share the same amount). In lore, I am sure they're universal in that sense. 

[Dewnis]

Ammo > Cooling system

[Pythonicus]

alex_ladik wrote...

Pythonicus wrote...
QFT
This is what is bothering me the most. If I want my infiltrator to make all of his kills with a sniper rifle I should be able to but instead I get to make a few kills that way then have to charge into the fray with a pistol just hoping to find a few more shots for the rifle. Universal clips would have solved this completely and let you make really tactical decisions about how to play the game.

So a Sentinel should be able to play the game without using biotics if they so choose?  Or an Engineer without using their drone or hacking?  Or An Adept without Singularity?

Weapons are simply another power available.  I actually believe it is entirely possible to play through as an infiltrator using only the SR, but it would be dramatically more difficult than using the full range of abilities and weapons available to you.  Listen to yourself.  You are complaining because the game is more difficult when you refuse to make full use of your skills, and trying to pass it off as not being able to play the way you want.

Guess what, it was the same in ME1.  Try playing an infiltrator that uses exclusively the SR.  No immunity, no tech skills, nada.  You've gimped your character, but it is still doable.  At least at low difficulty levels.  In ME2, it is equally possible to do this, but you will have gimped your character and missed out on the true pleasure of combat in the game.  Stop the whining about not being able to play how you want.  You can.  But you have zero right to complain about a character you have willingly gimped being less powerful than a character that makes full use of his abilities.

What did I say in my post that made you think that I thought the game is too difficult. I never said any such thing. You know people like to play in different ways, that's why there are different classes. Some people like tech, some like biotics etc. I like sneaking and sniping so I picked an infiltrator. Come on he's got tactical stealth and a sniper rifle so he's perfect. Only one tiny problem there are more bodies than bullets. So I run down into harms way finish the job with a submachinegun. It is not really harder just not as much fun for me.
My real issue is that no one has yet been able to explain just how the thermal clip thing works. Does each weapon have its own unique clip or are clips divided by weapon class? Is there a way to tell the difference? Is there any decent in game explanation as to why they are not universal. How come they are disposable or are the ones that I am finding on the battlefield just used ones that have finally cooled off? If the latter then why can't I go back later and pick up my old ones? The hand waving on this issue bugs me. I know it's just a game but it does.

BTW I have not willingly gimped my character to be less powerful. I use all of the abilities. IMO the game has gimped him to be less fun.

For me

[Satanicfirewraith]

The ammo is horrible. It makes no sense Because even the ingame codex is faulty because how does geth weapons, that worked the same as all the other weapons in ME, all of a sudden had thermal clips....

So when exactly did geth weapondry evolve??