726 réponses à ce sujet

[izmirtheastarach]

I am going to try to ask this again. I really would love a response.



Can someone tell me how having ammo appeals to shooter fans? This is what is still confusing me. If I wanted to make a very accessible game that appealed to casual fans and non-gamers, it seems like unlimited ammo is something I would include.



Returning to an ammo based system seems to be and effort to return to more traditional, hardcore gameplay.



What am I not understanding here?

[xxSgt_Reed_24xx]

only the idiots.

[Satanicfirewraith]

alex_ladik wrote...

Mox Ruuga wrote...
If this "improved" system had been in place, Shepard wouldn't have found the marines still alive on that rachni infested listening post world.

Of course, if the new cooling system has been implemented because the small arms are now an order of magnitude more powerful, its possible that 400 rounds out of a new AR is equivalent or better to the 4000 rounds an old model had.  Maybe the marines would have cleared the Rachni themselves if they had the new guns :happy:

um doubtful.

The marines had been there for what like 3 days or longer, fending off wave after wave of rachni attacks, they would have ran out of clips before day 1 ended and would have been slaughtered.

So again its a major step backwards for lore, and for gameplay having to reload your weapon.

They coulda added real tension to combat instead of making some generic ammo system to add artifical tension to combat.
So now instead of having to limit your firing to avoid overheating, you have to spen more time hiding, to reload, and hoping your ass can find more clips for your favorite weapon other wise you have to switch to some other weapon. (which may not be a very good thing) depending on what your fighting... Some how I doubt if you run outta clips for the AR that your pistol will inflict much damage on those large mechs...

[javierabegazo]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

Kalfear wrote...

Im sure the same 20 shooter fans from old forums will be here telling me and thousands of others we wrong in their attempts to deflect to oncoming outcry from Biowares REAL CUSTOMER BASE.

.

Just anecdotal, but I have to say it really feels like you folks are the 20 fans who don't like the new system, and the people who are fine with it are the thousands of others.

Indeed

[akintu]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

I am going to try to ask this again. I really would love a response.

Can someone tell me how having ammo appeals to shooter fans? This is what is still confusing me. If I wanted to make a very accessible game that appealed to casual fans and non-gamers, it seems like unlimited ammo is something I would include.

Returning to an ammo based system seems to be and effort to return to more traditional, hardcore gameplay.

What am I not understanding here?

I don't think casual fans care about what system a game uses for ammo.  Limited ammo does not make a game more difficult or hardcore, and I say that as someone who generally sucks at shooters.

[tommythetomcat]

Reloading doesn't suck, what does suck is putting insanity difficulty on and having to pump 500 rounds into 1 target to kill it. Thankfully thats remedied through location based damage and different ways of making insanity hard.

[izmirtheastarach]

alex_ladik wrote...

izmirtheastarach wrote...

I am going to try to ask this again. I really would love a response.

Can someone tell me how having ammo appeals to shooter fans? This is what is still confusing me. If I wanted to make a very accessible game that appealed to casual fans and non-gamers, it seems like unlimited ammo is something I would include.

Returning to an ammo based system seems to be and effort to return to more traditional, hardcore gameplay.

What am I not understanding here?

I don't think casual fans care about what system a game uses for ammo.  Limited ammo does not make a game more difficult or hardcore, and I say that as someone who generally sucks at shooters.

One you have gotten some decent equipment in ME1, so can literally run into a room firing constantly without even bothering to aim, and eventually everything will be did. There is no strategy or tactics involved. You can fire and fire until your fingers hurt.

Again, is that not the kind of thing that would appeal to casual fans, who don't want to worry about things like ammo?

[Halfheart]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

alex_ladik wrote...

izmirtheastarach wrote...

I am going to try to ask this again. I really would love a response.

Can someone tell me how having ammo appeals to shooter fans? This is what is still confusing me. If I wanted to make a very accessible game that appealed to casual fans and non-gamers, it seems like unlimited ammo is something I would include.

Returning to an ammo based system seems to be and effort to return to more traditional, hardcore gameplay.

What am I not understanding here?

I don't think casual fans care about what system a game uses for ammo.  Limited ammo does not make a game more difficult or hardcore, and I say that as someone who generally sucks at shooters.

One you have gotten some decent equipment in ME1, so can literally run into a room firing constantly without even bothering to aim, and eventually everything will be did. There is no strategy or tactics involved. You can fire and fire until your fingers hurt.

Again, is that not the kind of thing that would appeal to casual fans, who don't want to worry about things like ammo?

Most of us who do not like the new system agree that the old system needed to be fixed.

[xxSgt_Reed_24xx]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

Kalfear wrote...

Im sure the same 20 shooter fans from old forums will be here telling me and thousands of others we wrong in their attempts to deflect to oncoming outcry from Biowares REAL CUSTOMER BASE.

.

Just anecdotal, but I have to say it really feels like you folks are the 20 fans who don't like the new system, and the people who are fine with it are the thousands of others.

They are the 20 people who can't aim and consistently waste ammo on enemies by missing. Hence, they want unlimited "ammo".

Modifié par xxSgt_Reed_24xx, 17 janvier 2010 - 07:36 .

[akintu]

Satanicfirewraith wrote...
um doubtful.

The marines had been there for what like 3 days or longer, fending off wave after wave of rachni attacks, they would have ran out of clips before day 1 ended and would have been slaughtered.

So again its a major step backwards for lore, and for gameplay having to reload your weapon.

They coulda added real tension to combat instead of making some generic ammo system to add artifical tension to combat.
So now instead of having to limit your firing to avoid overheating, you have to spen more time hiding, to reload, and hoping your ass can find more clips for your favorite weapon other wise you have to switch to some other weapon. (which may not be a very good thing) depending on what your fighting... Some how I doubt if you run outta clips for the AR that your pistol will inflict much damage on those large mechs...

In all these ammo threads, I've never seen what your lore rationale for the ammo system is.  Do you have one?  Or do you believe Bioware just straight up changed it with no explanation?

[Kalfear]

javierabegazo wrote...

izmirtheastarach wrote...

Kalfear wrote...

Im sure the same 20 shooter fans from old forums will be here telling me and thousands of others we wrong in their attempts to deflect to oncoming outcry from Biowares REAL CUSTOMER BASE.

.

Just anecdotal, but I have to say it really feels like you folks are the 20 fans who don't like the new system, and the people who are fine with it are the thousands of others.

Indeed

And what you know, heres one of the 20 agreeing with you

who would have thunk? 

LOL, kid, say it anyway you want, ignore the names all you want, but when hundreads of different names say same thing, compared to 20 replying over and over, you have a majority and its not the 20.

But the shooter side never been interested in anyone elses opinion anyways so why start now?

The real outlash is coming Jan 27

[izmirtheastarach]

Halfheart wrote...

Most of us who do not like the new system agree that the old system needed to be fixed.

Most of who? Everytime I see these threads the same people are posting in them. Most of the posts actually seems to come from the same 5 people.

[wxman]

alex_ladik wrote...

Satanicfirewraith wrote...
um doubtful.

The marines had been there for what like 3 days or longer, fending off wave after wave of rachni attacks, they would have ran out of clips before day 1 ended and would have been slaughtered.

So again its a major step backwards for lore, and for gameplay having to reload your weapon.

They coulda added real tension to combat instead of making some generic ammo system to add artifical tension to combat.
So now instead of having to limit your firing to avoid overheating, you have to spen more time hiding, to reload, and hoping your ass can find more clips for your favorite weapon other wise you have to switch to some other weapon. (which may not be a very good thing) depending on what your fighting... Some how I doubt if you run outta clips for the AR that your pistol will inflict much damage on those large mechs...

In all these ammo threads, I've never seen what your lore rationale for the ammo system is.  Do you have one?  Or do you believe Bioware just straight up changed it with no explanation?

Well you can really "waste ammo" if it's unlimited can you?

[Halfheart]

And the same 5-8 people are the ones responding.

[izmirtheastarach]

Redundent post.

Modifié par izmirtheastarach, 17 janvier 2010 - 07:50 .

[izmirtheastarach]

Halfheart wrote...

And the same 5-8 people are the ones responding.

But you and Satinifirwrath make up like half of the posts arguing against the old system. I do not understand who these hudreds of people are. Are you hundreds of people? It looks like 2.

Modifié par izmirtheastarach, 17 janvier 2010 - 07:50 .

[Halfheart]

We are the minority, but there are more of us (really this forum represents a very very smallnumber of people).

Modifié par Halfheart, 17 janvier 2010 - 07:59 .

[akintu]

Halfheart wrote...

We are the minority, but there are more of us (really this forum represents a very very smallnumber of people).

Right.  Most people who play ME2 will simply not care about ammo.  If the combat feels good, they'll like it.

As I suspect most of the complainers will as well when they play and realize its not a big deal and the combat feels good.

[izmirtheastarach]

Halfheart wrote...

We are the minority, but there are more of us (really this forum represents a very very smallnumber of people).

I agree. There are more of you. However, you are still the minority. If you actually count, the people who are arguing in favour of the new system outnumber those who are arguing against.

Just because the two of you have more posts doesn't mean their are more of you. If I am wrong, and therer are a lot of people who are unhappy, then we will know about it next Tuesday. And If I am, and the game doesn't sell well, I will acknowledge that you were correct.

However, that's not going to stop me from enjoying the game and looking forward to the next one. So in the end, I will be happy. Will you?

[Halfheart]

I never said I wasn't playing (neither has anyone else in this topic I believe). We are merely stating our dissatisfaction with the new system. (my problem has more to do with lore, and the simple fact that a fairly unique system was replaced with a common one) It has nothing to do with whether or not I will enjoy the game (the overall story and how butchered the lore becomes will decide this).

[Marlina]

No, I think it's great. I love the new reload system. It's everything I wanted in ME1. Makes combat much, much better. Bullethose is NOT my idea of fun. Along with the removal of immunity, one of the overall BEST changes, if you ask me.

[TheTWF]

Not I.

[tommythetomcat]

Halfheart wrote...

I never said I wasn't playing (neither has anyone else in this topic I believe). We are merely stating our dissatisfaction with the new system. (my problem has more to do with lore, and the simple fact that a fairly unique system was replaced with a common one) It has nothing to do with whether or not I will enjoy the game (the overall story and how butchered the lore becomes will decide this).

You don't know it was Retcon'd. And you wont until you read the codex and find out there may be a logical progression to this new system for whatever reason.  I feel comfortable that they would keep the lore of the ME universe intact if they have to account for a huge change in gameplay mechanics.  Thats what they pay writers for.

[cpip]

I just love that we're all making these declarations based on watching some videos of how it will work, and not actually using it ourselves.

[akintu]

Halfheart wrote...

I never said I wasn't playing (neither has anyone else in this topic I believe). We are merely stating our dissatisfaction with the new system. (my problem has more to do with lore, and the simple fact that a fairly unique system was replaced with a common one) It has nothing to do with whether or not I will enjoy the game (the overall story and how butchered the lore becomes will decide this).

There are plenty of very reasonable lore explanations for the changes, so I suspect you won't be disappointed on that front.  We'll find out in a few days, in any case (I'm actually quite excited to see how close my guess on the lore is).

As far as the unique system being replaced, I feel ya there.  That was definitely as issue I had when I first found out about the ammo thing.  But since then I've come to terms with it, and as long as the game play "feels" nice, it seems like a reasonable change to make.  Uniqueness for the sake uniqueness isn't always the greatest thing.