726 réponses à ce sujet

[Fuzzyrabbit]

While we're at it, who here has actually tried the new ammo system? ....anyone?

[Marlina]

Well, we've seen how it works in videos. And since devs have confirmed that it's pretty much exactly the same as in any other shooter, I think we've got a pretty good idea how it works.

[Vaulin Faust]

I love the new system

[Satanicfirewraith]

DocLasty wrote...

Satanicfirewraith wrote...

Marlina wrote...



@Yojimboreo
I think most of these guys are whining about the fluff implications, not the actual gameplay changes. In my opinion, fun trumps more or less anything, and especially such an insignificant little detail. I don't play Mass Effect for stuff like that, A retcon like... "asari males now exist" or something, that'd be lame, but this is just not important at all.
Besides, it's not like it's completely implausible, as other have pointed out.

lol
Having a male looking asari is a insignificant detail, changed how EVERY weapon in the game operates is a MAJOR change.

I'd say the exact opposite. It's been HARD established that all Asari
appear female. At least heat sinks existed in some form in ME1.

As its been HARD established that the guns in the ME universe auto cooldown.

[Arrtis]

i hate how much they say improving the combat wont affect anything else in the game.

*cry*

[tommythetomcat]

Satanicfirewraith wrote...

As its been HARD established that the guns in the ME universe auto cooldown.

Technology changes in two years, genes don't. (we need a facepalm smiley pretty bad)

[Satanicfirewraith]

alex_ladik wrote...

MegaHustler wrote...

I just hope they didn't make the machine gun have a ridiculous low ammo capacity before needing reload, like 100 rounds or so. *

A present day M60E4 light machine gun can fire more than 1200 rounds with one pull of the trigger, before failing due to heat. That's more than 2 minutes of continuous full-auto fire.

So much for the hold-the-trigger-and-sweep-the-room method of late-game ME1 being unrealistic...

Personally I've never felt that not having to reload in ME1 felt unrealistic. If anything, it made sense that a culture capable of faster-than-light travel could make a firearm based on their energy technology, which doesn't need "ammo" in a present-day sense. This is science-fiction, right?

Also I've never felt that not having to reload my sword in NWN took anything away from the experience. But apparently future firearms from a vastly advanced civilization have to behave like present-day firearms, or they are considered unrealistic.

(* feel free to exchange the words "heat" for "ammo", and "thermal clip eject" for "reload")

Does an M60 look this when fired:  
Just saying....these weapons are firing projectiles at orders of magnitude higher velocity than firearms today.  Even that test video is significantly lower velocity than ME1 small arms.  There is a gargantuan amount of heat being thrown off the projectiles simply from atmospheric friction.

.
Again you cant compare our real mordern weapons to the futuristic scifi weaponry. All the weapons are based on Mass Effect field tech... do you have a weapon that runs off something like that in the military right now? No because it simply is not real. So making this kind of comparasion is like comparing a ufo to the wright brothers airplane.

 

[DocLasty]

Satanicfirewraith wrote...

DocLasty wrote...

Satanicfirewraith wrote...

Marlina wrote...



@Yojimboreo
I think most of these guys are whining about the fluff implications, not the actual gameplay changes. In my opinion, fun trumps more or less anything, and especially such an insignificant little detail. I don't play Mass Effect for stuff like that, A retcon like... "asari males now exist" or something, that'd be lame, but this is just not important at all.
Besides, it's not like it's completely implausible, as other have pointed out.

lol
Having a male looking asari is a insignificant detail, changed how EVERY weapon in the game operates is a MAJOR change.

I'd say the exact opposite. It's been HARD established that all Asari
appear female. At least heat sinks existed in some form in ME1.

As its been HARD established that the guns in the ME universe auto cooldown.

Would you prefer a Sniper Rifle that overheats after 2 consecutive
shots, or a Sniper Rifle that can fire twelve shots before you just
have to replace a heat sink?

Modifié par DocLasty, 17 janvier 2010 - 10:18 .

[Marlina]

@Satanicfirewraith
Look, the simple fact is that it doesn't make a ripple of consequences, like worse retcons would. The guns are still limited by heat, not by ammunition. Story-wise, there's little that is affected by it. It's a footnote. Do you genuinely care about it that much? I find that hard to believe.
EDIT: If it even IS a retcon, as others point out. 

Modifié par Marlina, 17 janvier 2010 - 10:20 .

[Arrtis]

im sure sniper rifles work better with this ammo system while the other guns worked better with the old system.

[Satanicfirewraith]

tommythetomcat wrote...

Satanicfirewraith wrote...

As its been HARD established that the guns in the ME universe auto cooldown.

Technology changes in two years, genes don't. (we need a facepalm smiley pretty bad)

Can we say Genophoge?
The Krogan genes changed.... and harmed their race to the point where they are dying out. So it is possible things can change in genes in 2 years, just as every single weapon in the known universe is to likly change over to a lower grade weapon that requires manual cooldown reloads....

[Murmillos]

wow.. somebody just let off nuclear grade stupidity in this thread..

Modifié par Murmillos, 17 janvier 2010 - 10:24 .

[Marlina]

I think we're done here.

[DocLasty]

And even if it does go against lore, you know what? Big deal.



Every combat video I've seen so far has one thing in common - it looks like fun. All those weapons, all those powers, the sectional damage, the new enemies to fight...it really does look like it will be fun to play. Isn't that the important thing?

[tommythetomcat]

Satanicfirewraith wrote...

Can we say Genophoge?
The Krogan genes changed.... and harmed their race to the point where they are dying out. So it is possible things can change in genes in 2 years, just as every single weapon in the known universe is to likly change over to a lower grade weapon that requires manual cooldown reloads....

Let me go ahead and requote this for you.  

tommythetomcat wrote...

If the old weapons were not powerful enough to break stronger barrier/shields/armor you can bet your ass the companies making said weapons would follow suit, nothing brings about innovation like someone else's innovation that nullify your products.

So if weapon produce more heat then this would assume that they would need a better form of cooling one that is not passive.  

[javierabegazo]

Marlina wrote...

I think we're done here.

[akintu]

Satanicfirewraith wrote...

Again you cant compare our real mordern weapons to the futuristic scifi weaponry. All the weapons are based on Mass Effect field tech... do you have a weapon that runs off something like that in the military right now? No because it simply is not real. So making this kind of comparasion is like comparing a ufo to the wright brothers airplane.

In ME small arms, a mass effect field reduces the mass of the projectile.  1 gram of material can be accelerated to much higher velocity than 1kg can.  So, the mass effect field (magically) reduces the mass of the projectile to a much lower or near zero mass so it can be accelerated to a higher rate, imparting it significantly higher kinetic energy.  Despite the mass effect field, the weapons are still launching a projectile at extremely high velocity.

Now, that part is strange and magical, but fundamentally, ME weapons work by accelerating a projectile to high velocity, using the kinetic energy of the projectile to do damage to its target.  This is actually exactly how our weapons work today.  The bow and arrow functions on this principle.  The only difference is the means to accelerate the projectile. 

In another thread, I actually ran some calculations.  Something like 18km/s for a grain of sand to have the kinetic energy of a 9mm bullet.  Which is outrageously fast, but still low for what ME weapons are putting out.

Also...

Marlina wrote...

I think we're done here.

How do I keep getting pulled into this? oye:mellow:

Modifié par alex_ladik, 17 janvier 2010 - 10:32 .

[izmirtheastarach]

Man this guy is nuts.

Dude, it's a fictional world. "HARD established"? Come on. How ridiculous can you be? We are not talking about rewriting the story, or completely changing a character. We're talking about overheating guns.

I mean, come on. Is this really that important?

Modifié par izmirtheastarach, 17 janvier 2010 - 10:34 .

[Fhaileas]

alex_ladik wrote...

Satanicfirewraith wrote...

Again you cant compare our real mordern weapons to the futuristic scifi weaponry. All the weapons are based on Mass Effect field tech... do you have a weapon that runs off something like that in the military right now? No because it simply is not real. So making this kind of comparasion is like comparing a ufo to the wright brothers airplane.

In ME small arms, a mass effect field reduces the mass of the projectile.  1 gram of material can be accelerated to much higher velocity than 1kg can.  So, the mass effect field (magically) reduces the mass of the projectile to a much lower or near zero mass so it can be accelerated to a higher rate, imparting it significantly higher kinetic energy.  Despite the mass effect field, the weapons are still launching a projectile at extremely high velocity.

Now, that part is strange and magical, but fundamentally, ME weapons work by accelerating a projectile to high velocity, using the kinetic energy of the projectile to do damage to its target.  This is actually exactly how our weapons work today.  The bow and arrow functions on this principle.  The only difference is the means to accelerate the projectile. 

In another thread, I actually ran some calculations.  Something like 18km/s for a grain of sand to have the kinetic energy of a 9mm bullet.  Which is outrageously fast, but still low for what ME weapons are putting out.

Not if the ME accelerator fields are being generated within a vacuum inside the gun's barrell - friction would be non-existent until the projectile actually exits into the atmosphere.

It was my assumption from the previous game that the cool-down mechanism wasn't for the projectiles for this very reason, rather it was for the Mass Effect field generators inside the guns themselves.

Modifié par Fhaileas, 17 janvier 2010 - 10:42 .

[wxman]

DocLasty wrote...

Would you prefer a Sniper Rifle that overheats after 2 consecutive
shots, or a Sniper Rifle that can fire twelve shots before you just
have to replace a heat sink?

Except for you know, with the current system you change the heatsink after EVERY shot. Also before your weapons passivly cooled down.

If they wanted to add ammo they should have made it consistant with established lore... in the books guns did run out of ammo, but you had LOTS of it because the rounds were small... so an assalt rifle might have a thousand rounds, while a sniper rifle might have dozen.... instead we have 40 and 1, and a lame cop out system of "thermal clips"
.
.
.
Before people go all "well dont buy the game" I'm just saying that this is one change that I feel is stupid and idiotic, I'm sure I'll still like the game, just like I like the first one even though I thought the inventory/equipment system was lame.

Modifié par wxman, 17 janvier 2010 - 10:55 .

[DocLasty]

Except for you know, with the current system you change the heatsink after EVERY shot. Also before your weapons passivly cooled down.

Actually, no. There are two types of Sniper Rifles - the first is single shot, then quick reload. The second can fire multiple shots before a longer reload.

[Arrtis]

Id like a new ammo system in ME3...

[javierabegazo]

[Rustedknight]

Arrtis wrote...

Id like a new ammo system in ME3...

And while we are at it a new tank too. I'm sure the one in ME2 will suck.

for on topic comment, I think the devs could have saved themselevs a lot of hate with a hybred heat management system.

[Arrtis]

not sure why that comment go those responses.