57 réponses à ce sujet

[Zanallen]

Miranda doesn't wear armor for the same reason that James Bond doesn't wear armor. Jack doesn't wear armor for the same reason that most psychotic people don't wear armor.

[Chakku Sama]

Wrex Shepard.... Didn't know Krogan can produce with another male.

[Dualcode]

Zanallen wrote...

Miranda doesn't wear armor for the same reason that James Bond doesn't wear armor. Jack doesn't wear armor for the same reason that most psychotic people don't wear armor.

I now declare you having lost all Intelligence. You honestly just compared SuperTits McFatAss to James Bond?! SHAME ON YOU! Thats like saying that Superman could win against Batman!

[skan5]

A better question would be why melee attacks have to eat through kinetic shields <.<

[Zanallen]

The comparison is that Miranda is a Cerberus operative, not a soldier. She is an informant, much like a spy or secret agent. How many secret agent characters run around in full combat armor?



Of course, this isn't even going into how ineffective armor actually is in the ME universe.

[Eag07]

I don't have a problem with fashion choices of some team members. What I do have a problem with is them wearing the same clothing in hostile environments (even in hard vacuum if memory serves). In reality it would be interesting to watch for example Miranda walk through the chlorine mist with unprotected eyes...

[RighteousRage]

skan5 wrote...

A better question would be why melee attacks have to eat through kinetic shields <.<

Or how kinetic shields protect against solar radiation or vacuum, or somehow permit oxygen and nitrogen to pass freely whereas somehow neutralizing the effects of chlorine gas, etc. etc.

[Eag07]

RighteousRage wrote...

skan5 wrote...

A better question would be why melee attacks have to eat through kinetic shields <.<

Or how kinetic shields protect against solar radiation or vacuum, or somehow permit oxygen and nitrogen to pass freely whereas somehow neutralizing the effects of chlorine gas, etc. etc.

Even if the shields could protect against vacuum and whatnot, this protection would disappear the moment the shield collapsed under enemy fire. And in that moment you are back on track to blindness / boiling blood etc. I guess some "expert" thought we wouldn't notice this...

[Zanallen]

Eag07 wrote...

RighteousRage wrote...

skan5 wrote...

A better question would be why melee attacks have to eat through kinetic shields <.<

Or how kinetic shields protect against solar radiation or vacuum, or somehow permit oxygen and nitrogen to pass freely whereas somehow neutralizing the effects of chlorine gas, etc. etc.

Even if the shields could protect against vacuum and whatnot, this protection would disappear the moment the shield collapsed under enemy fire. And in that moment you are back on track to blindness / boiling blood etc. I guess some "expert" thought we wouldn't notice this...

1. Kinetic shields don't protect you from solar radiation. This is why you pretty much immediately start baking in the sun during that particular mission.

2. There is no instances within the game where you are for sure in a vacuum, not counting the beginning of the game or the Normandy crash site. The only part that could even be construed as being within a vacuum would be the "ship jump" portion after the abandoned ship. Now, I am not convinced that this is within a vacuum due to the ME field of the ship still being active. Even if it was, it was for a period of 20 seconds or so, which is perfectly acceptable.

3. The only planet that would require full suits would be the chlorine gas planet. This was more than likely an oversight on Bioware's part. After all, why would they construct new suits for all of those squad members for one optional side mission?

4. Heretic station...Not enough is know about the state of repair of the station to say for sure what you would need.

[Ogrek]

Eag07 wrote...

RighteousRage wrote...

skan5 wrote...

A better question would be why melee attacks have to eat through kinetic shields <.<

Or how kinetic shields protect against solar radiation or vacuum, or somehow permit oxygen and nitrogen to pass freely whereas somehow neutralizing the effects of chlorine gas, etc. etc.

Even if the shields could protect against vacuum and whatnot, this protection would disappear the moment the shield collapsed under enemy fire. And in that moment you are back on track to blindness / boiling blood etc. I guess some "expert" thought we wouldn't notice this...

The irony here is that your avatar is Samara, who leaves HER full cleavage (and stomach) exposed to the elements.  Even in a vacuum.  Heck, even GARRUS' armor is damaged, but he wears a helmet on that chlorine planet too.  Which was the only time I ever saw him wear that thing.  

Still, there are a few biotic characters (besides Shep) who wear armor - it seems like they're all mercenaries though.

[Hellhawx]

Shepard is safe in hazardous areas, the suit is fully sealed and designed to protect against the elements, Kinetic Barriers are designed to stop projectiles, the suit itself protects against elements. I agree though that other characters need full body coverage in hazardous areas. That small plastic mask isn't cutting it for half the characters.

[Fluffeh Kitteh]

Handren wrote...

Looking over the charachter we know, I notice that only charachters that do not have any form of biotics wear traditional, ME1-like armor. 

This seems to reinforce the idea that Biotic Barrier "replaces" armor on biotic charachters.

Tali doesn't look very well-armoured to me. Mordin, I can't tell if he's wearing armour or a plasticky lab attire.

[Eag07]

Zanallen wrote...

Eag07 wrote...

RighteousRage wrote...

skan5 wrote...

A better question would be why melee attacks have to eat through kinetic shields <.<

Or how kinetic shields protect against solar radiation or vacuum, or somehow permit oxygen and nitrogen to pass freely whereas somehow neutralizing the effects of chlorine gas, etc. etc.

Even if the shields could protect against vacuum and whatnot, this protection would disappear the moment the shield collapsed under enemy fire. And in that moment you are back on track to blindness / boiling blood etc. I guess some "expert" thought we wouldn't notice this...

1. Kinetic shields don't protect you from solar radiation. This is why you pretty much immediately start baking in the sun during that particular mission.

2. There is no instances within the game where you are for sure in a vacuum, not counting the beginning of the game or the Normandy crash site. The only part that could even be construed as being within a vacuum would be the "ship jump" portion after the abandoned ship. Now, I am not convinced that this is within a vacuum due to the ME field of the ship still being active. Even if it was, it was for a period of 20 seconds or so, which is perfectly acceptable.

3. The only planet that would require full suits would be the chlorine gas planet. This was more than likely an oversight on Bioware's part. After all, why would they construct new suits for all of those squad members for one optional side mission?

4. Heretic station...Not enough is know about the state of repair of the station to say for sure what you would need.

I do recall one mission on a planet which had surface temperature around 90C... You must also take the atmospheric pressure into account, which is not within safe parameters in certain areas of the game (aforementioned her. station). With decreasing pressure the boiling point of any liquids lowers as well - just imagine what it would do the blood...

As for the vacuum, I distinctly recall going through an airlock sequence to get to certain areas of the ship (which were pretty much open to space) in the IFF mission. Considering where is said ship positioned I would guess that the atmospheric conditions are pretty hostile there.

I'd say that scientific accuracy was simply sacrificed in favor of cool looks, that's all.

[Zanallen]

Eag07 wrote...

I do recall one mission on a planet which had surface temperature around 90C... You must also take the atmospheric pressure into account, which is not within safe parameters in certain areas of the game (aforementioned her. station). With decreasing pressure the boiling point of any liquids lowers as well - just imagine what it would do the blood...

As for the vacuum, I distinctly recall going through an airlock sequence to get to certain areas of the ship (which were pretty much open to space) in the IFF mission. Considering where is said ship positioned I would guess that the atmospheric conditions are pretty hostile there.

I'd say that scientific accuracy was simply sacrificed in favor of cool looks, that's all.

Was that mission one of the ones where you go to a bunker of some sort? I noticed that a few of those missions have you landing outside of the bunker or base and EDI has mentioned "atmospheric shielding" a few times. I believe Miranda said something about landing inside of the base's atmospheric shields. That would account for temperature and pressure.

As for the airlock, as I said, you can survive in a vacuum for a limited time. Without any sort of suit or oxygen, you can survive until you pass out.

[Grand_Commander13]

Zanallen wrote...

1. Kinetic shields don't protect you from solar radiation. This is why you pretty much immediately start baking in the sun during that particular mission.

Except for the part where they damage nothing but your shields.  They'll take your shields down and prevent them from recharging, but your health is fine.

At any rate, Bioware needing to make extra models for "just one mission" could have been easily averted if they had given NPCs sensible armor for every mission.

[Zanallen]

Grand_Commander13 wrote...

Zanallen wrote...

1. Kinetic shields don't protect you from solar radiation. This is why you pretty much immediately start baking in the sun during that particular mission.

Except for the part where they damage nothing but your shields.  They'll take your shields down and prevent them from recharging, but your health is fine.

At any rate, Bioware needing to make extra models for "just one mission" could have been easily averted if they had given NPCs sensible armor for every mission.

What are you talking about? The sunlight immediately drops your shields and begins to take down your health if you stand there too long.

Giving every member armor goes against Bioware's plan to make each squad member unique. For the majority of the game, there is no real need for armor. Each squad member has a reason to wear or not wear armor based on their own personal preferences. I can point out a few parts in both games where armor is shown to be uselss in combat once your shields are down.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Eag07 wrote...

I'd say that scientific accuracy was simply sacrificed in favor of cool looks, that's all.

Oh no! The horror! What have they done to this science fiction setting!

[Grand_Commander13]

Zanallen wrote...

What are you talking about? The sunlight immediately drops your shields and begins to take down your health if you stand there too long.

Giving every member armor goes against Bioware's plan to make each squad member unique. For the majority of the game, there is no real need for armor. Each squad member has a reason to wear or not wear armor based on their own personal preferences. I can point out a few parts in both games where armor is shown to be uselss in combat once your shields are down.

Your first point I will confirm today myself, though I can tell you confidently that it does not instantly drop your shields.

Your second point I dispute as well: Zaeed, Garrus, and Grunt all wear armor and they're plenty unique in the design they wear.  As for "useless" armor, the only scenes where armor is useless also show the suit's kinetic barriers to be useless.  Shepard wears armor, even when the slot's bonus is to something like ammo.  You're saying that in-universe Shepard wears bulky, heavy armor for a look and not for an effect?

[A.N.A.N]

About no armour for unique look, there's no reason why Bioware could not have designed unique set of armour for each squadmate in addition to whatever they'd wear normally, and perhaps a choice between them before starting a mission (other than cost and time of course).

[Zanallen]

Grand_Commander13 wrote...
Your first point I will confirm today myself, though I can tell you confidently that it does not instantly drop your shields.

Your second point I dispute as well: Zaeed, Garrus, and Grunt all wear armor and they're plenty unique in the design they wear.  As for "useless" armor, the only scenes where armor is useless also show the suit's kinetic barriers to be useless.  Shepard wears armor, even when the slot's bonus is to something like ammo.  You're saying that in-universe Shepard wears bulky, heavy armor for a look and not for an effect?

Grunt wears armor because just about all krogan wear armor.

Garrus wears armor, I assume, because he wore armor in the first game. Plus, most Turians are wearing armor.

Zaeed wears a breastplate thing with, for some odd reason, a single pauldron. I don't use him, so I don't know for sure, but I've heard that he doesn't wear a helmet either.

The other members of your group have reasons for why they don't wear armor. I can go over them if you like.

As for Shepard, he is a soldier. He has been in the Alliance military for years. He probably feels more comfortable with armor on, despite its worthlessness.

And speaking of worthlessness, remember Jenkins? Yes, the man who was killed by a Geth probe. His shields dropped and his armor didn't do a damn thing to protect him. Due to mass accelerators, armor is practically pointless in the face of ME weaponry. Shields are the only thing really needed to ensure survival.

[Grand_Commander13]

The point is that Grunt, Garrus, and Zaeed all have very different armor from one another.

It's sad you bring up Jenkins as an example of armor being useless. Those probes are no more damaging than any other enemy you encounter, and your shields hold up well enough. As for whether armor is useless or not, we'll just let the codex decide...

Combat hard-suits use a dual-layer system to protect the wearer. The inner layer consists of fabric armor with kinetic padding. Areas that don't need to be flexible, such as the chest or shins, are reinforced with sheets of lightweight ablative ceramic.

Or maybe everything changed in ME2.

If a bullet or other incoming object gets past the barrier, it contends with the more traditional body armor. A sealed suit of non-porous ballistic cloth provides kinetic and environmental protection, reinforced by lightweight composite ceramic plates in areas that either don't need to flex or require additional coverage, such as the chest and head. When the armor is hit by directed energy weapons, the plates boil away or ablate rather than burning the wearer.

Or not. It's not hard to notice: everyone who isn't one of Shepard's squad mates wears armor if they are participating in combat, whether they are a biotic or not. The rules are different for the squaddies, apparently.

[ilPianiste]

Eag07 wrote...
I'd say that scientific accuracy was simply sacrificed in favor of cool looks, that's all.

True, obviously.

So, how about the "coolness" of armorless squadmates?

-- Jack - half-naked: Some call it cool, others sexy. I personally don't like her looks - a matter of taste of course. (Interesting character nonetheless.)

-- Miranda - figure-hugging superheroine outfit: More to my tastes, from a voyeuristic standpoint. But is it really cool having her run around all the time like this? No, it's not. It's rather silly - and as a game-feature: pre-mature.

-- Samara: same as Miranda.

-- Thane - unique "elegant" outfit: Okay outside from combat-situations (or outside dangerous environmental circumstances). But in (open) combat (or in space)? Not the least bit functional, so not "cool" in the eye of any intelligent beholder!

-- Grunt - Heavy armor but bare upper arms: SILLY.


Of course, that's ALL a matter of taste. In combination with subjective preferences with regard to (felt..) "believeability" of the game world. Which is pretty low in all those cases.

Zanallen wrote...
Giving every member armor goes against Bioware's plan to make each squad member unique. For the majority of the game, there is no real need for armor.

Since the majority of the game takes place in combat, the usefullness of armor should be blatantly obvious. Just think about the many foes with (explicitly announced) armor and the effort to strip it down.

Zanallen wrote...
Each squad member has a reason to wear or not wear armor based on their own personal preferences.

While this argument is not entirely wrong, it points to another weakness of these "cool" recruits: they may be exceptional fighters in their own right, but IF any of them refuses, for sake of a personal "style" (Jack?), to wear armor for protection in combat - or to protect from hazardous environments! -, he/she CANNOT be the right person to be taken on our mission.

----

But BioWare CAN decide whatever they want.

Yet i'm convinced the decision of "coolness" over believability takes into consideration the preferences of prospective costumers (or what their preferences are supposed to be).
IF a majority of costumers wish the return of ("real") armor for future Mass-Effect installments, BioWare (hopefully) won't disappoint them.

See: social.bioware.com/717832/polls/1803/

Modifié par ilPianiste, 10 mars 2010 - 09:48 .

[Eag07]

Zanallen wrote...

Eag07 wrote...

I do recall one mission on a planet which had surface temperature around 90C... You must also take the atmospheric pressure into account, which is not within safe parameters in certain areas of the game (aforementioned her. station). With decreasing pressure the boiling point of any liquids lowers as well - just imagine what it would do the blood...

As for the vacuum, I distinctly recall going through an airlock sequence to get to certain areas of the ship (which were pretty much open to space) in the IFF mission. Considering where is said ship positioned I would guess that the atmospheric conditions are pretty hostile there.

I'd say that scientific accuracy was simply sacrificed in favor of cool looks, that's all.

Was that mission one of the ones where you go to a bunker of some sort? I noticed that a few of those missions have you landing outside of the bunker or base and EDI has mentioned "atmospheric shielding" a few times. I believe Miranda said something about landing inside of the base's atmospheric shields. That would account for temperature and pressure.

As for the airlock, as I said, you can survive in a vacuum for a limited time. Without any sort of suit or oxygen, you can survive until you pass out.

The planet I was refering to was Canalus, with "anomalous weather patterns" assignment. Surface temperature in planet info is 99C, which is a bit too much for exposed skin.

And as for vacuum yes, you are right. But the damage caused by complete lack of atmospheric pressure is catastrophic in a matter of seconds. Holding your breath is actually one of the worst things you can do when exposed to vacuum, it will literally tear your lungs apart. You can technically survive for a few seconds, but you could hardly run around and shoot things.

Modifié par Eag07, 10 mars 2010 - 07:34 .