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The Crusader: Much worse at higher frame rates


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#1
Tybo

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 So going over the frame by frame analysis again, we found there to be a significant difference between 60 and 30 fps.

At 60 fps, we have this:  

http://asecretsnotas....imgur.com/all/

Go to the album, click on the first image (bottom) and flip through the images to see the frame by frame analysis.

By our reckoning, the bullet hits where the cursor was approximately 6-7 frames before firing.  Flip through the pictures to see what you think.  

This delay was actually inconsistent.  On other shots, we found the delay to be between 6-12 frames (between 100 and 200 ms)  These are not all documented, as Lord_Sirian is not willing to take hundreds of screenshots (and really, can you blame him?)

At 30 fps, we have this: 

Frame 1

Frame 2

Frame 3


Frame 1 is 2 frames before the trigger pull, frame 2 is the trigger pull frame, and frame 3 is where the bullet actually hits.

The delay in these tests ranged for 1-2 frames, or 33.333 to 66.666 ms.  This is consistent with MaxShine's test.

In conclusion, the Crusader aim delay is highly dependent on frame rate, and inconsistent.  It is significantly worse at 60 fps.  It ranges from 100 to 200 ms at 60 fps, and between 33.333 and 66.666 ms at 30 fps.

MaxShine did some testing here, which was very valuable

Also, note that none of this matches the reported .02 second delay reported by Bioware.  Biower pls

Addendum:
 
The hit delay does also happen on other hitscan weapons, though inconsistently.  So far, we've seen a similar 1 frame delay between the Talon firing and the bullets registering.   However, the ammo counter didn't update until well after the bullets hit (6 frames after the shot), whereas the Crusader ammo counter updated before the shot.  The Wraith seemed to register hits instantly. 

Modifié par tyhw, 27 mai 2013 - 10:40 .


#2
megabeast37215

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Don't forget dominating boss armor like few weapons in the game can...

I don't have a problem popping mook heads with it either... just gotta slow down a little bit.

#3
Ziegrif

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In other words you need to see the future to accurately fire the gun.

...

MARTY!! MARTY!! WE NEED TO GO BACK!! BACK... TO THE FUTUREE!!!

#4
Qui-Gon Glenn

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Moar hip firing and you will feel a lot better about the gun.

I promise.

It only has HPV....

#5
owenbeast

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crusader is a collecter destroyer because they are all big targets and the troopers have big heads. Great on a krogan soldier to take out bosses.

#6
megabeast37215

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owenbeast wrote...

crusader is a collecter destroyer because they are all big targets and the troopers have big heads. Great on a krogan soldier to take out bosses.


It might be the best anti-collector weapon in the game... even more so than the Javelin/Claymore.

#7
UnknownMercenary

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Ziegrif wrote...

In other words you need to see the future to accurately fire the gun.

...

MARTY!! MARTY!! WE NEED TO GO BACK!! BACK... TO THE FUTUREE!!!


where we're going, we don't need lag compensation

#8
USIncorp0

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I still have no issues using the Crusader

#9
Heldarion

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lol

It's a fine gun.

#10
DieselL

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its good but i say the black widow dominates collectors 3 shots 3 abominations but with the crusader not sure! on the other hand BW is an only infiltrator plus weapon

#11
d_nought

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Heldarion wrote...

lol

It's a fine gun.


If I wanted 200ms lag I'd go pugging

#12
cowwy

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The gun is bad and it should feel bad.

#13
megabeast37215

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d_nought wrote...

Heldarion wrote...

lol

It's a fine gun.


If I wanted 200ms lag I'd go pugging


If Gold is the majority of what you play... a stellar player like you should welcome challenges like these. This is why a lot of my friends and I use sub optimal weapons/builds all the time... because using min/max builds with URs and top notch Rares is simply too easy. Save that stuff for Plat...

#14
FlashAK

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I almost feel like this thread is being directed at Twigman.

DieselL wrote...

its good but i say the black widow dominates collectors 3 shots 3 abominations but with the crusader not sure! on the other hand BW is an only infiltrator plus weapon

The Turian Soldier would like to have a word with you.

#15
Kalas Magnus

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cowwy wrote...

The gun is bad and it should feel bad.

yes

#16
Tybo

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megabeast37215 wrote...

d_nought wrote...

Heldarion wrote...

lol

It's a fine gun.


If I wanted 200ms lag I'd go pugging


If Gold is the majority of what you play... a stellar player like you should welcome challenges like these. This is why a lot of my friends and I use sub optimal weapons/builds all the time... because using min/max builds with URs and top notch Rares is simply too easy. Save that stuff for Plat...


There's a clear difference between suboptimal and frustrating.

For example, on host Kishock is suboptimal, and tricky to aim.  But it makes sense, and shoots where you point.  But it is very frustrating when your shots do not hit where you're aiming.

#17
UnknownMercenary

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Black Widow infiltrator only?

what

it was overbuffed, sure, but to the point where non-Infiltrators can use it comfortably

it's laughably good on sniper infils but still a great gun on Soldiers, and any caster that can use the Claymore comfortably can use the BW as well

#18
Creator Limbs

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Is it the same on and off host? Just curious, as a lot of things differ on and off.

#19
d_nought

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megabeast37215 wrote...

d_nought wrote...

Heldarion wrote...

lol

It's a fine gun.


If I wanted 200ms lag I'd go pugging


If Gold is the majority of what you play... a stellar player like you should welcome challenges like these. This is why a lot of my friends and I use sub optimal weapons/builds all the time... because using min/max builds with URs and top notch Rares is simply too easy. Save that stuff for Plat...


If I wanted a sub optimal challenge that actually tested my aim I'd go solo speedrunning with the Saber vs Geth or Collectors without cyclonic mods. Or maybe Cerberus if I want to rage at phantom DR.

Modifié par d_nought, 25 mai 2013 - 09:45 .


#20
DieselL

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jeah i agree there are classes where the BW may me good but in most cases infiltrators will be your first choice and my drell with the mine will take down 2 pretorians the time you take down one on plat , with the lack of mobility /powers and damage its just not as effective , pretty good but never that op!
TS marksman will more benefit with a hurricane /typhoon etc
ps: let thane RIP

#21
megabeast37215

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tyhw wrote...

megabeast37215 wrote...

d_nought wrote...

Heldarion wrote...

lol

It's a fine gun.


If I wanted 200ms lag I'd go pugging


If Gold is the majority of what you play... a stellar player like you should welcome challenges like these. This is why a lot of my friends and I use sub optimal weapons/builds all the time... because using min/max builds with URs and top notch Rares is simply too easy. Save that stuff for Plat...


There's a clear difference between suboptimal and frustrating.

For example, on host Kishock is suboptimal, and tricky to aim.  But it makes sense, and shoots where you point.  But it is very frustrating when your shots do not hit where you're aiming.


I agree it can be frustrating until you learn to compensate for the aim delay. However... once your L2deal with it... it's one of the best weapon in the game. I love it on the Destroyer with ROF bonus... if I miss... I don't care b/c the follow up shot is right behind it. I also... very seldom aim down the sight with the Crusader... only at VERY long range. It works so much better if you just spam the trigger with haphazard aim. 

#22
MaxShine

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Without the delay it would be overpowered... Sniper rifle range, great ROF, innate piercing. Playing with it is like classic online FPS gaming was in Q3A or UT, you have some lag on your shot... So what? Consider yourself happy to get a taste of these classics

Modifié par MaxShine, 25 mai 2013 - 09:48 .


#23
megabeast37215

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d_nought wrote...

If I wanted a sub optimal challenge that actually tested my aim I'd go solo speedrunning with the Saber vs Geth or Collectors without cyclonic mods. Or maybe Cerberus if I want to rage at phantom DR.



You can do better d_nought... I believe in you. Saber is OP in your hands Image IPB

BTW... my Crusader rips on host Phantoms right through their DR... no joke. I don't know how... but it does. I usually rock Warp ammo on it.

#24
JediHarbinger

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Maybe it's the ROF that is making me have a hard time...

Gonna try this dude on the GI, and with the added ROF bonus, I will finally like it....

I know the destroyer has a better ROF than the GI, but I'm gonna start small...

#25
UnknownMercenary

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MaxShine wrote...

Without the delay it would be overpowered... Sniper rifle range, great ROF, innate piercing. Playing with it is like classic online FPS gaming was in Q3A or UT, you have some lag on your shot... So what? Consider yourself happy to get a taste of these classics


I can't think of any gun in those games that purposely had a 0.2 second delay

MAYBE the railgun?

actually I don't think that had it