211 réponses à ce sujet

[Tybo]

megabeast37215 wrote...

tyhw wrote...

megabeast37215 wrote...


Sick 'em Stik...

lol

Yes, I'm just lying to you guys for fun.  Just like I always do.  

(Also, fyi, .02 seconds is far from 6 frames...  l2math, console scrubs)

No... I don't think you're lying... I just think that the aim delay is not that big of a deal, it is easy to overcome and that it is worth overcoming because the weapon does insane damage. You PC folks are so anal about weapons... You guys hate the Crusader, and the Venom, and the GPS, etc etc. etc. Your inability to accept small issues kills variety... It's silly IMO.

Since when do I hate the venom or the GPS?

I have no problem with those weapons (as long as I'm hosting, which is fairly rare nowadays), they make sense.  

I just don't like it when weapons don't shoot where I'm aiming.

[MP-Ryan]

If you pause your cursor movement prior to firing, the Crusader impacts precisely where you're pointing. If you do not pause, the Crusader impacts the point where your cursor was 0.2 seconds prior to the trigger pull - meaning that you need to anticipate the target path and pull the trigger along that path at a point 0.2 seconds past where you want the shot to impact. That is difficult. The best method of using the Crusader is pausing your movement and firing where the target crosses your cursor point. It means leading the target at a fixed location, not continuing to move your mouse.  All of which is different from the other hitscan weapons.  This does not make it "bad" nor does it reward poor aiming; it may make it undesirable to you, and you are welcome to your opinion, the rest of us just do not share it necessarily.

As for real firearms, you're referring to follow-through (which is correct as with any motion). What I'm referring to is the momentary pause in movement that any practiced shooter makes as they pull the trigger to ensure impact on a fixed point. And my firearms instruction was for the purposes of my career in law enforcement, from police instructors (many of whom are also championship shooters internationally) Do I win the e-peen award?

Modifié par MP-Ryan, 26 mai 2013 - 05:11 .

[Tybo]

MP-Ryan wrote...

If you pause your cursor movement prior to firing, the Crusader impacts precisely where you're pointing. If you do not pause, the Crusader impacts the point where your cursor was 0.2 seconds prior to the trigger pull - meaning that you need to anticipate the target path and pull the trigger along that path at a point 0.2 seconds past where you want the shot to impact. That is difficult. The best method of using the Crusader is pausing your movement and firing where the target crosses your cursor point. It means leading the target at a fixed location, not continuing to move your mouse.

As for real firearms, you're referring to follow-through (which is correct as with any motion). What I'm referring to is the momentary pause in movement that any practiced shooter makes as they pull the trigger to ensure impact on a fixed point. And my firearms instruction was for the purposes of my career in law enforcement, from police instructors (many of whom are also championship shooters internationally) Do I win the e-peen award?

Ok, now we're in agreement in mechanics.  However, I still find this to be very limiting, and not fun.  IMO these are bad habits, as they will slow you down when using every other gun versus firing on the move.  I find tracking to be much more rewarding, fun, and useful then waiting for the enemy to come into my crosshairs.

As for the real firearms part, you definitely win.  I'm a very amateur shot, and definitely do not have micro pauses...probably because I'm not good enough for it to matter.

[me0120]

Can I get some more PC vs Console talk, please?



P.S. The real winner is Wii U.

[Original Twigman]

tyhw wrote...

megabeast37215 wrote...

tyhw wrote...

megabeast37215 wrote...


Sick 'em Stik...

lol

Yes, I'm just lying to you guys for fun.  Just like I always do.  

(Also, fyi, .02 seconds is far from 6 frames...  l2math, console scrubs)

No... I don't think you're lying... I just think that the aim delay is not that big of a deal, it is easy to overcome and that it is worth overcoming because the weapon does insane damage. You PC folks are so anal about weapons... You guys hate the Crusader, and the Venom, and the GPS, etc etc. etc. Your inability to accept small issues kills variety... It's silly IMO.

Since when do I hate the venom or the GPS?

I have no problem with those weapons (as long as I'm hosting, which is fairly rare nowadays), they make sense.  

I just don't like it when weapons don't shoot where I'm aiming.

you still haven't shown the frames.

Also, what is interesting, is that you said my math was wrong, despite 30 fps being 6 frames for a .2 second delay....

no more talk, just show frames

[MP-Ryan]

tyhw wrote...
Ok, now we're in agreement in mechanics.  However, I still find this to be very limiting, and not fun.  IMO these are bad habits, as they will slow you down when using every other gun versus firing on the move.  I find tracking to be much more rewarding, fun, and useful then waiting for the enemy to come into my crosshairs.

You don't have to wait all that much.  The Crusader is quite rewarding if you learn to use it, but it is markedly different from the other weapons.

I didn't use mine until I had it at X and I regret not trying it sooner.  I also regret that it weighs so bloody much.

[BeauRB1229]

Well.. We have run the gamut from l2p to platform argument crap. Op video clearly demonstrates there is an inconsistency with this weapon, but it is still definitely one of the better weapons in the game (post buff). Devs confirmed it after the smart PC investigators figured it out through data. Hell, I thought it seemed off on my Xbox 30fps before the BSN elite types confirmed it. The best fix to this issue is an alteration of the weapon description, like that it is an old school technology as opposed to space magic speed of light bullets.

[Scathen]

I still don't see how people can think the delay mimics a real gun. I mean, the shot still impacts instantly, like any hitscan, as soon as you fire, but it doesn't hit where you're aiming unless you've been aiming there longer than the duration of the delay. Otherwise it's like your sights and barrel are momentarily out-of-sync, as if, rather than firing a regular firearm, you were aiming some sort of cannon where you had to wait for the gun to adjust to any changes in sighting. How does that make any sense in a gun with sights fixed to the position of the barrel?

[MP-Ryan]

Scathen wrote...

I still don't see how people can think the delay mimics a real gun. I mean, the shot still impacts instantly, like any hitscan, as soon as you fire, but it doesn't hit where you're aiming unless you've been aiming there longer than the duration of the delay. Otherwise it's like your sights and barrel are momentarily out-of-sync, as if, rather than firing a regular firearm, you were aiming some sort of cannon where you had to wait for the gun to adjust to any changes in sighting. How does that make any sense in a gun with sights fixed to the position of the barrel?

I didn't say it mimics it well, just that the delay system appears to be an attempt to mimic the travel time of a slug by impeding the ability to fire and hit instantly during crosshair movement (and for real firearms, in the case of skeet shooting particulary, if you took a photograph top-down showing the flight path of a pigeon, the impact point of the shotgun blast, and the direction of the gun barrel all at the time of impact, the gun would not line up with the impact point - this is true of the Crusader too).

[IanLai]

use crusader with the guy that get stagger power like incinerate , cryo, energy drain
use gun to due damage . not extremely bad . but definitely suck with this delay as u get many better choice of gun
totally don't have the idea of this game building mechanism .it seems every one play on LAN . not internet

[solidprice]

d_nought wrote...

Heldarion wrote...

lol

It's a fine gun.

If I wanted 200ms lag I'd go pugging

[Salarian Jesus]

On the consoles, aim assist somewhat compensates for its firing delay, but it is really clumsy on PC.

[BattleCop88]

Am I the only console player who abhors the firing delay?

[Salarian Jesus]

BattleCop88 wrote...

Am I the only console player who abhors the firing delay?

No, it's still terrible, but way worse on PC in my opinion.

[hostaman]

owenbeast wrote...

crusader is a collecter destroyer because they are all big targets and the troopers have big heads. Great on a krogan soldier to take out bosses.

This ^

Works well on the KroLord, giving the slow fat guy a ranged attack.

I don't understand this "aim" issue as I've never seen it.  The only thing with the Crusader is that the reticule must be right over the enemy, unlike other weapons where the ammo spread is wider and they'll hit even if your aim is off.

It requires a pin sharp aim, so just treat it like a sniper and you'll do better with it.  I love picking off mooks across the map, very rewarding.

[peddroelm]

Imagine the crusader is made of wobbly Jelly -> Jerk it too fast and the bullet will fly well off target (actually into the past) ...

You must handle it gently and carefully (no sudden movements) and then assuming your target also cooperates (again no sudden movements) you won't miss ... Some ( myself included) might find the weapon a bit out of place of a fast FPS environment not to use any harsher words..

[kinsha22]

hostaman wrote...

owenbeast wrote...

crusader is a collecter destroyer because they are all big targets and the troopers have big heads. Great on a krogan soldier to take out bosses.

This ^

Works well on the KroLord, giving the slow fat guy a ranged attack.

I don't understand this "aim" issue as I've never seen it.  The only thing with the Crusader is that the reticule must be right over the enemy, unlike other weapons where the ammo spread is wider and they'll hit even if your aim is off.

It requires a pin sharp aim, so just treat it like a sniper and you'll do better with it.  I love picking off mooks across the map, very rewarding.

The aim issue people are referring to, is that the when you fire the crusader, the bullet will impact where your crosshair was .2  seconds ago.  Basically this punishes people who have good hand eye coordination to track moving targets quickly and pull the trigger.  It also explains why I don't have as big a problem with this weapon as some people as I try to take slow shots with this gun.

[planehazza]

prostheticlimbs wrote...

Is it the same on and off host? Just curious, as a lot of things differ on and off.

I can only solo bronze, but I was using the crusader solo and I found the aiming to be horrendous with it.  Still managed to get plenty headshots, but it had a very weird feel to it.

[joker_jack]

cowwy wrote...

The gun is bad and it should feel bad.

[Tallgeese_VII]

Prediction shot makes you feel like real bad ass though.
..Aim delay is definitely there and it can be very bothersome.
Good thing Geth Juggernaut does not care about taking few more second for perfect aim.

[stysiaq]

I like the Crusader and I was always suspicious about the "0.02 fire delay". I knew I wouldn't notice 0.02 s delay, I'm glad that someone tested it.

[hostaman]

kinsha22 wrote...

hostaman wrote...

owenbeast wrote...

crusader is a collecter destroyer because they are all big targets and the troopers have big heads. Great on a krogan soldier to take out bosses.

This ^

Works well on the KroLord, giving the slow fat guy a ranged attack.

I don't understand this "aim" issue as I've never seen it.  The only thing with the Crusader is that the reticule must be right over the enemy, unlike other weapons where the ammo spread is wider and they'll hit even if your aim is off.

It requires a pin sharp aim, so just treat it like a sniper and you'll do better with it.  I love picking off mooks across the map, very rewarding.

The aim issue people are referring to, is that the when you fire the crusader, the bullet will impact where your crosshair was .2  seconds ago.  Basically this punishes people who have good hand eye coordination to track moving targets quickly and pull the trigger.  It also explains why I don't have as big a problem with this weapon as some people as I try to take slow shots with this gun.

I agree. When I first used it I hated it, but while doing an N7 weapon challenge I started to understand it. You're right, it simply can't be used like other shotguns.  I actually think it's quite close to the Viper in terms of the way you need to aim for best results.

I just wish it wasn't quite so heavy

Modifié par hostaman, 26 mai 2013 - 08:50 .

[Tallgeese_VII]

hostaman wrote...

kinsha22 wrote...

hostaman wrote...

owenbeast wrote...

crusader is a collecter destroyer because they are all big targets and the troopers have big heads. Great on a krogan soldier to take out bosses.

This ^

Works well on the KroLord, giving the slow fat guy a ranged attack.

I don't understand this "aim" issue as I've never seen it.  The only thing with the Crusader is that the reticule must be right over the enemy, unlike other weapons where the ammo spread is wider and they'll hit even if your aim is off.

It requires a pin sharp aim, so just treat it like a sniper and you'll do better with it.  I love picking off mooks across the map, very rewarding.

The aim issue people are referring to, is that the when you fire the crusader, the bullet will impact where your crosshair was .2  seconds ago.  Basically this punishes people who have good hand eye coordination to track moving targets quickly and pull the trigger.  It also explains why I don't have as big a problem with this weapon as some people as I try to take slow shots with this gun.

I agree. When I first used it I hated it, but while doing an N7 weapon challenge I started to understand it. You're right, it simply can't be used like other shotguns.  I actually think it's quite close to the Viper in terms of the way you need to aim for best results.

I just wish it wasn't quite so heavy

I personally feel like Crusader is similar to GPS/graal in its usage especially when you aim for moving target.
You predict where the enemy will be in next 0.5 second, then boom.

Modifié par Tallgeese_VII, 26 mai 2013 - 08:57 .

[Nova-IN]

People are not understanding the problem with the fire delay. It makes you incapable of switching targets quickly, which you could easily do given the high RoF the gun has. Look at marksman saber. A player with a good hand-eye co-ordination could easily keep 2 marauders staggered with the saber, while he may fail to do so 8/10 times with the crusader. It really is that big of a deal.

Modifié par Midnight98, 26 mai 2013 - 09:02 .

[Nova-IN]

Tallgeese_VII wrote...

hostaman wrote...

kinsha22 wrote...

hostaman wrote...

owenbeast wrote...

crusader is a collecter destroyer because they are all big targets and the troopers have big heads. Great on a krogan soldier to take out bosses.

This ^

Works well on the KroLord, giving the slow fat guy a ranged attack.

I don't understand this "aim" issue as I've never seen it.  The only thing with the Crusader is that the reticule must be right over the enemy, unlike other weapons where the ammo spread is wider and they'll hit even if your aim is off.

It requires a pin sharp aim, so just treat it like a sniper and you'll do better with it.  I love picking off mooks across the map, very rewarding.

The aim issue people are referring to, is that the when you fire the crusader, the bullet will impact where your crosshair was .2  seconds ago.  Basically this punishes people who have good hand eye coordination to track moving targets quickly and pull the trigger.  It also explains why I don't have as big a problem with this weapon as some people as I try to take slow shots with this gun.

I agree. When I first used it I hated it, but while doing an N7 weapon challenge I started to understand it. You're right, it simply can't be used like other shotguns.  I actually think it's quite close to the Viper in terms of the way you need to aim for best results.

I just wish it wasn't quite so heavy

I personally feel like Crusader is similar to GPS/graal in its usage especially when you aim for moving target.
You predict where the enemy will be in next 0.5 second, then boom.

Nope. With graal/GPS you predict the enemy position in the FUTURE, whereas with crusader you predict where you were in the PAST. Not forgetting that graal/GPS don't have that problem while hosting anyway.