211 réponses à ce sujet

[Domnuxx]

Aye, that delay throws me off as well. I can't believe some people don't even notice it.

[Chealec]

DullahansXMark wrote...

Chealec wrote...

MasterReefa wrote...

I've said it before and i'll say it again.
Crusader > Claymore
L2P pc scrubs

OK - I'll bite, learn to aim console scrubs ... oh, you can't, analogue sticks - sorry, I feel for you, I really do; it must suck to be forced to use such a retrograde, Micky Mouse control system

The moment you can fully enjoy Devil May Cry 3 on a PC (WITHOUT a "retrograde Mickey Mouse control system" gamepad) is the day I'll openly admit that PC gaming is better in every way.

Until then, you lose, because DMC3 is a kickass game 

lol - I'm not really competing, just baiting a hook ... I know Micky Mouse controllers are better for some things; I have a PS3 as well. Games like inFamous, with its free-running, jumping, sliding along railway tracks and power-bombing groups of weird-arsed enemies could be ... fiddly ... with a mouse and keyboard (unless you've got a 12 button programmable mouse and a very dexterous thumb maybe).

... but any game that really benefits from precise aim, benefits from using a more precise input type, like a mouse (there are some oddballs out there who are really good with trackballs .... I'm not one of them though).

Horses for courses, I'll play  Dark Souls, inFamous or GT5, for instance, on the PS3 (not that I have any choice with PS3 exclusives) through the big TV with the home cinema system (GT5 is even better with a racing seat, steering wheel and foot pedals) ... I'll play ME3, TF2, CS:GO on the PC with mouse/keyboard, headphones and a mic... or of couse strategy games and sims like SimCity, Civilisation, X-Com, Total War, X3 (with a flight-stick) on the PC.

To get the best of both worlds, you need both... but more of the kinds of games I generally play are basically better suited to the PC.



As an aside, I keep meaning to buy the new DMC - but I've got such a backlog of games I've barely played atm I can't really justify it ... even though Combichrist did the soundtrack.

[Uh Cold]

Ya can make it work with the delay,
Making it Work.

[MaxShine]

Midnight98 wrote...
Nope. With graal/GPS you predict the enemy position in the FUTURE, whereas with crusader you predict where you were in the PAST. Not forgetting that graal/GPS don't have that problem while hosting anyway. 

Well, that is not really a problem as long as you play with that in mind. With the Crusader you have to place your crosshair at the location where you want to shoot in 0.2 seconds. I would say that requires planning your shots and not 'Punishing good aim and rewarding bad'. I can understand why people dislike that, but it is not really a terribly bad thing it is just a bit weird... For me it is refreshing change from point and click to kill

[Nova-IN]

Uh Cold wrote...

Ya can make it work with the delay,
Making it Work.

Of course you can. Only thing i noticed in this one, though, is how many times you missed your target compared to your executioner video. 

[MaxShine]

Midnight98 wrote...

People are not understanding the problem with the fire delay. It makes you incapable of switching targets quickly, which you could easily do given the high RoF the gun has. Look at marksman saber. A player with a good hand-eye co-ordination could easily keep 2 marauders staggered with the saber, while he may fail to do so 8/10 times with the crusader. It really is that big of a deal.

well... Putting the Crusader on a kit with marksman is not the best idea in the first place, because you cannot make use of Marksman ROF bonus effectively. On an infiltrator with high damage bonuses the Crusader can kill the Marauder in one shot and you can kill the next one faster than you could with a different shotgun like the Wraith or Claymore because these still fire slower overall because of the lower ROF (Wraith) and reload speed(Claymore).

Modifié par MaxShine, 26 mai 2013 - 09:39 .

[Uh Cold]

Midnight98 wrote...

Uh Cold wrote...

Ya can make it work with the delay,
Making it Work.

Of course you can. Only thing i noticed in this one, though, is how many times you missed your target compared to your executioner video. 

The executioner thing was a montage over a few games, this was 1 full game.
It's not hard to edit out bad shots and make a montage but someone from BSN wanted a full vid so I made one.
You can't really perfect aiming on consoles with aim assist being present anyways.

[cowwy]

Uh Cold wrote...

Ya can make it work with the delay,
Making it Work.

The problem i that most of your hits on enemies were on staggered or not moving targets. I saw very few hits on perpendicularly moving targets, where the aim delay actually matters. Everywhere else you could've had a 1 second delay and it wouldn't have affected you hitting most of those targets.

Also the music drove me nuts, but that's just different tastes in music.

[stysiaq]

cowwy wrote...

Uh Cold wrote...

Ya can make it work with the delay,
Making it Work.

The problem i that most of your hits on enemies were on staggered or not moving targets. I saw very few hits on perpendicularly moving targets, where the aim delay actually matters. Everywhere else you could've had a 1 second delay and it wouldn't have affected you hitting most of those targets.

Also the music drove me nuts, but that's just different tastes in music.

So what's exactly wrong with adapting to a gun?

Crusader has this stupid delay, so I use it on kits with stagger powers (not a small club).

[Fortack]

stysiaq wrote...

cowwy wrote...

Uh Cold wrote...

Ya can make it work with the delay,
Making it Work.

The problem i that most of your hits on enemies were on staggered or not moving targets. I saw very few hits on perpendicularly moving targets, where the aim delay actually matters. Everywhere else you could've had a 1 second delay and it wouldn't have affected you hitting most of those targets.

Also the music drove me nuts, but that's just different tastes in music.

So what's exactly wrong with adapting to a gun?

Crusader has this stupid delay, so I use it on kits with stagger powers (not a small club).

Nothing wrong with adapting. Problem is, though, that the Crusader was designed to be a very accurate (kinda snipery) shotgun. Adding a (stupid) mechanic that defeats the main purpose of the weapon makes no sense whatsoever.

[Deerber]

The Crusader's always sucked. I mean c'mon, it's a shotgun that doesn't ignore shieldgate. Do I really need to say more?

[HeroicMass]

I despise the crusader. No gun should shoot through time.

[sr2josh]

The Crusader definitely takes some extra skill with timing shots compared to other shotguns but packs a hell of a punch and three shot clip.

[stysiaq]

Makai81 wrote...

The Crusader definitely takes some extra skill with timing shots compared to other shotguns but packs a hell of a punch and three four shot clip.

ftfy

That's why I like this gun. It's unique this way.

[Tallgeese_VII]

The Crusader is seriously amazing gun on Geth Juggernaut though.

[Tup3x]

Crusader is the best weapon I have. No challenge but there's something satisfying in playing solo bronze matches with Crusader. Pum, dead, pum, dead^4. Too bad that I will never get it maxed out since weekend challenges are no more.

[cgj]

i love the kishock
i love the Javelin
screw the crusader and its nonsense

[sr2josh]

stysiaq wrote...

Makai81 wrote...

The Crusader definitely takes some extra skill with timing shots compared to other shotguns but packs a hell of a punch and three four shot clip.

ftfy

That's why I like this gun. It's unique this way.

*face palm*    
I'm so embarassed.  I failed math in school 

[MaxShine]

I did some experiments with the Crusader...

What I tried out:
When you fire the Crusader it will shoot at the point where your crosshair was a certain time t ago. Some claim t=0.2 seconds some say t=0.02s. Regardless of what t really is this is a bit weird.
If this was true I should be able to do the following:

Let us assume my crosshair is at the position marked in the picture. If I then move my crosshair really quickly in the direction of the arrow shown in the picture and pull the trigger at the end position of the arrow I should be able to hit the trooper if my timing is right.

Here is a video to illustrate this further:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Tcx5tHw7Bg&feature=youtu.be&hd=1

As we see in the video it works... it is highly non-intuitive though.

We can furthermore try to calculate the amount of time t that the hit detection looks back. My game runs at 60fps, the video is recorded at 30fps.
I assume the following:
- 1 frame of the video = 2 frames in the game
- duration of 1 frame in the video is 1.0/30.0 seconds
- the ammo counter is updated one frame after I pulled the trigger

We will now look at several consecutive frames of the video:
(I will not display the images here because that would be hard to read)
frame0: first frame from here I will move the crosshair as quickly as I can in the direction of the arrow
Notice that I have one thermal clip left in the magazine
http://i.imgur.com/3wHiv3Q.jpg
frame1: I assume this is the position that is fired at in the end... crosshair is over the trooper
http://i.imgur.com/llLj4F8.jpg
frame2: Crosshair is not on the trooper anymore, I assume that this is the frame where I pulled the trigger
http://i.imgur.com/dMB1Dz9.jpg
frame3: In this frame the ammo counter went from 1 to 0, which means that I pulled the trigger in the frame before
http://i.imgur.com/z2UDl9A.jpg
frame4: gun starts to recoil
http://i.imgur.com/IutdjOn.jpg
frame5: more gun recoil
http://i.imgur.com/g3hfOqK.jpg
frame6: hit detection has finally finished, returns a headshot and displays the animation
http://i.imgur.com/RxHG59n.jpg

So what can we conclude from this?
1) I must have pulled the trigger in frame2, because in frame3 the ammo counter displays a 0.
2) The point that the gun fires at is very likely the crosshair position in frame1, one frame before I pulled the trigger
     the position in frame0 does not look like it should be a hit.
3) the hit registers visibly in frame6, 4 frames after I presumably pulled the trigger

What could be the time t that the hit detection looks back?
- I assume it is the time of 1 video frame or 2 in game frames so t=0,03333333 seconds which is an approximation of 0.02 if you calculate it on a per frame basis.

Could it be 0.2 seconds as some people claim?
-If it was 0.2 seconds we should look at my crosshair position 6 video frames before frame2 where I pulled the trigger, we will call this frame-4:
http://i.imgur.com/OoDqHdu.jpg
In this frame the crosshair points at a position that is very different from the position where the trooper is when he dies.

So I believe the correct number is really this 0.02 seconds that is looked back in time or 2 frames if your game runs at 60fps, the hit detection and registration takes some time too and makes the process appear a bit longer.

Modifié par MaxShine, 27 mai 2013 - 12:00 .

[MaxShine]

Air Quotes wrote...

The Jury believes that the evidence is quite clear - you killed that trooper and you are responsible for it.

How can you live with yourself?

I claim that I am innocent, because I clearly did not shoot directly at this trooper... The guy just ran into the bullet, bad day for him... **** happens!

[MaxShine]

Air Quotes wrote...

MaxShine wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...

The Jury believes that the evidence is quite clear - you killed that trooper and you are responsible for it.

How can you live with yourself?

I claim that I am innocent, because I clearly did not shoot directly at this trooper... The guy just ran into the bullet, bad day for him... **** happens!

 

Alright. Case cleared. You can go. 

I mean who doesn't shoot shotguns randomly and have people jump into the bullets? 

Many people do it... I think this guy is using a Crusader too:

Modifié par MaxShine, 26 mai 2013 - 11:49 .

[Tybo]

@MaxShine:

Interesting video evidence. We are now documenting our frame by frame analysis, and I am curious as to why we're getting different results. If it was .02 seconds, the bullet in our vid would have hit the trooper in the shoulder, but it missed by a foot.

One thing I'm curious of is what software you used to go through it frame by frame. Also, did you render the video before looking at it, or is it the raw video?

[Original Twigman]

MaxShine wrote...

I did some experiments with the Crusader...

What I tried out:
When you fire the Crusader it will shoot at the point where your crosshair was a certain time t ago. Some claim t=0.2 seconds some say t=0.02s. Regardless of what t really is this is a bit weird.
If this was true I should be able to do the following:

Let us assume my crosshair is at the position marked in the picture. If I then move my crosshair really quickly in the direction of the arrow shown in the picture and pull the trigger and the end position of the arrow I should be able to hit the trooper if my timing is right.

Here is a video to illustrate this further:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Tcx5tHw7Bg&feature=youtu.be&hd=1

As we see in the video it works... it is highly non-intuitive though.

We can furthermore try to calculate the amount of time t that the hit detection looks back. My game runs at 60fps, the video is recorded at 30fps.
I assume the following:
- 1 frame of the video = 2 frames in the game
- duration of 1 frame in the video is 1.0/30.0 seconds
- the ammo counter is updated one frame after I pulled the trigger

We will now look at several consecutive frames of the video:
(I will not display the images here because that would be hard to read)
frame0: first frame from here I will move the crosshair as quickly as I can in the direction of the arrow
Notice that I have one thermal clip left in the magazine
http://i.imgur.com/3wHiv3Q.jpg
frame1: I assume this is the position that is fired at in the end... crosshair is over the trooper
http://i.imgur.com/llLj4F8.jpg
frame2: Crosshair is not on the trooper anymore, I assume that this is the frame where I pulled the trigger
http://i.imgur.com/dMB1Dz9.jpg
frame3: In this frame the ammo counter went from 1 to 0, which means that I pulled the trigger in the frame before
http://i.imgur.com/z2UDl9A.jpg
frame4: gun starts to recoil
http://i.imgur.com/IutdjOn.jpg
frame5: more gun recoil
http://i.imgur.com/g3hfOqK.jpg
frame6: hit detection has finally finished, returns a headshot and displays the animation
http://i.imgur.com/RxHG59n.jpg

So what can we conclude from this?
1) I must have pulled the trigger in frame2, because in frame3 the ammo counter displays a 0.
2) The point that the gun fires at is very likely the crosshair position in frame1, one frame before I pulled the trigger
     the position in frame0 does not look like it should be a hit.
3) the hit registers visibly in frame6, 4 frames after I presumably pulled the trigger

What could be the time t that the hit detection looks back?
- I assume it is the time of 1 video frame or 2 in game frames so t=0,03333333 seconds which is an approximation of 0.02 if you calculate it on a per frame basis.

Could it be 0.2 seconds as some people claim?
-If it was 0.2 seconds we should look at my crosshair position 6 video frames before frame2 where I pulled the trigger, we will call this frame-4:
http://i.imgur.com/OoDqHdu.jpg
In this frame the crosshair points at a position that is very different from the position where the trooper is when he dies.

So I believe the correct number is really this 0.02 seconds that is looked back in time or 2 frames if your game runs at 60fps, the hit detection and registration takes some time too and makes the process appear a bit longer.

MotherF******* awesome